ancesttrylibrary edition for free at all good central libraries In UK Birmingham and Solihull at all branches HughB W On 16/03/2008, Jeff Owens <[email protected]> wrote: > singhals wrote: > > > > The alternatives for US census records: > > 1) visit NARA and use their microfilm at no charge > > 2) rent copies of the NARA microfilm at $6 to $15 per film. > > > > > > > > the ~3,400 LDS family history centers can get census on microfilm. I > haven't been there in a while, last time it was $3/roll for viewing if > they don't have it as a local, permanent part of their holdings. > > > Jeff Owens > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- For genealogy and help with family and local history in Bristol and district. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/ http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks main blog GENEALOGE http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG
a boring board known for some nutters Hugh W On 16/03/2008, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > Gloria- > > Why not post your comments on the Ancestry Site Comments message board? > > http://boards.rootsweb.com/topics.ancestry.ancsite/mb.ashx > > Joan > ------------------------------------------ > Good idea. But is an important issue, and people should indeed have > open discussion of it. Would it be possible for you to establish a > list for this discussion to move to? > > Gloria > > > > > **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & > Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- For genealogy and help with family and local history in Bristol and district. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/ http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks main blog GENEALOGE http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG
singhals wrote: > > The alternatives for US census records: > 1) visit NARA and use their microfilm at no charge > 2) rent copies of the NARA microfilm at $6 to $15 per film. > > > the ~3,400 LDS family history centers can get census on microfilm. I haven't been there in a while, last time it was $3/roll for viewing if they don't have it as a local, permanent part of their holdings. Jeff Owens
[email protected] wrote: > At 3/15/2008 05:53 PM, [email protected] wrote: > >>I say more power to them because the public domain NARA records can't be >>copyrighted by anyone--not TGN or anyone else. There is no danger of anyone >>having a monopoly on public domain records. This only means that Ancestry >>subscribers will have access to more digitized online records while >>everyone else >>can still access these public domain records through other means >>as they always >>have done in the past. >> >>If companies (TGN, FOOTNOTE, etc.) can't contract with NARA to digitize the >>vast wealth of records that have not yet been digitized it is never going to >>get done. >> >>Joan > > > Uh, the digitized image can and will be copyrighted. If there was no > copyright on images of public domain documents like the census, > Ancestry could not object when copies of their census images are put online. > > Don't get me wrong, it costs money to do all the work, and anyone > deserves to be paid for it. The question is how much and for how long? How much: what the market will pay (Good, bad, or neutral, it's how capitalism works) How long: International Copyright is "life +90 years" US copyright seems to be "life +75 years"; US copyright for corporations is (if my contract is correct) a flat 75 years. (US copyright used to be 26 years + 1 26-yr extension) The alternatives for US census records: 1) visit NARA and use their microfilm at no charge 2) rent copies of the NARA microfilm at $6 to $15 per film. Cheryl -- There should be no attachments on this message, unless I specifically mentioned them above.
Many Moons ago when I Put all my research on Free Rootsweb for all other Fozard's To use I was concerned when it was taken over by ancestry Next thing I know all my work "verbatim "was on ancestry site and charged for I sent them an email protesting but no reply So now reading all this I have removed My information 35years of work from Rootsweb It would not be so bad but their charges are exorbitant for people to use It just shows that its money, money .money Not help for people and it worries me that more and more resources are being taken over Regards Carol .
Simply saying find somewhere else to post it, sounds like the moderator speaking, not a human being. Why not suggest where and have more of an open mind since people are hurting, be empathetic, care get a hug and give a hug.. The issues are real for all of us, have you noticed our concerns. No one likes to be ripped off or damaged. I bet you don't like to be mauled into doing one thing or another...especially if this is a free space to find our ancestors. It would certainly be different if we paid to be on a site, then we could more than appreciate the throw down the gauntlet attitude but not on a free site. Listen all we want is to find our ancestors and be in peace; have a good dialogue with no flames or threats. Please fully more explain the position rootsweb is taking and why and we will all appreciate the facts, knowledge and evidence that this will bring to the table. You may quiet the dissent by letting it take place, hmmmmmmmmmmm. Robert L. Sutton -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Elsi Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 12:00 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] Administrative post -- Enough already! Folks, I hoped this discussion would simply go away, but it is clear that people have strong feelings about the changes that will be taking place at RootsWeb over the next couple of weeks. This is *not* the place to discuss it. I suggest you go find some place else. I do not want to have to put the entire list on moderation, but I will if this continues. Regards, Elsi ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Gloria- Why not post your comments on the Ancestry Site Comments message board? http://boards.rootsweb.com/topics.ancestry.ancsite/mb.ashx Joan ------------------------------------------ Good idea. But is an important issue, and people should indeed have open discussion of it. Would it be possible for you to establish a list for this discussion to move to? Gloria **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
At 3/15/2008 05:53 PM, [email protected] wrote: >I say more power to them because the public domain NARA records can't be >copyrighted by anyone--not TGN or anyone else. There is no danger of anyone >having a monopoly on public domain records. This only means that Ancestry >subscribers will have access to more digitized online records while >everyone else >can still access these public domain records through other means >as they always >have done in the past. > >If companies (TGN, FOOTNOTE, etc.) can't contract with NARA to digitize the >vast wealth of records that have not yet been digitized it is never going to >get done. > >Joan Uh, the digitized image can and will be copyrighted. If there was no copyright on images of public domain documents like the census, Ancestry could not object when copies of their census images are put online. Don't get me wrong, it costs money to do all the work, and anyone deserves to be paid for it. The question is how much and for how long? [email protected], Patrice
Good idea. But is an important issue, and people should indeed have open discussion of it. Would it be possible for you to establish a list for this discussion to move to? Gloria On Mar 15, 2008, at 11:00 PM, Elsi wrote: > Folks, > > I hoped this discussion would simply go away, but it is clear that > people have strong feelings about the changes that will be taking > place at RootsWeb over the next couple of weeks. > > This is *not* the place to discuss it. I suggest you go find some > place else. I do not want to have to put the entire list on > moderation, but I will if this continues. > > Regards, > Elsi > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message >
Folks, I hoped this discussion would simply go away, but it is clear that people have strong feelings about the changes that will be taking place at RootsWeb over the next couple of weeks. This is *not* the place to discuss it. I suggest you go find some place else. I do not want to have to put the entire list on moderation, but I will if this continues. Regards, Elsi
good on you Joan for so many their own dark emotions obscure the truth Hugh W On 15/03/2008, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > Patty- > > This simply is not true. No resources have been "taken over." The FREE > family trees at WorldConnect at RootsWeb and the FREE family trees at AWT on the > Ancestry side are combined for searching and browing but they are FREELY > ACCESSIBLE to everyone from BOTH sides--RootsWeb AND Ancestry. > > http://wc.rootsweb.com and > > http://www.ancestry.com/trees/awt/main.aspx > > > Joan > ---------------------------------- > More and more resources are being taken over. It's very upsetting and my > own > family tree which I uploaded year ago can now be seen on TGN/Ancestry if one > subscribes. > > > > > **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & > Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- For genealogy and help with family and local history in Bristol and district. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/ http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks main blog GENEALOGE http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Hugh Watkins <[email protected]> Date: 15 Mar 2008 22:05 Subject: Re: The TGN discussion on Rootsweb Help To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> as an ancestry subscriber I support TGNs wish they have done a great job with the UK National Archives for which I am very very happy World Vital Records has a CEO who is ex-ancestry and is attacking them there is alot of office and church politics inall this Hugh W On 15/03/2008, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi John and Hugh, > > I sincerely hope you both have offered your comments to [email protected] as > the National Archives is considering entering into a contract with TGN to > digitize many of their holdings. > > I have sent [email protected] the following comments and hope you will > consider doing the same. > Peace, > Patty > Subj: Comments-TGN from Founder of Immigrant Ships Transcribers Guild > Date: 3/11/2008 3:45:30 PM Mountain Daylight Time > From: Ships07 > To: [email protected] > > > > Hello Vision, > > If this proposal happened to be between World Vital Records or Footnote I > wouldn't have a problem with it. > > I didn't see anything in the proposal that limited the amount of money > Ancestry could charge us to view the digitized records. My guess is they > can change anything they want and while that fee is certainly cheaper than a > plane ticket to the National Archives in Washington, D.C., (the only > Archives where some data is stored) most of us don't have the money to take > that plane trip anyway; it's not a question of comparing one expense to the > other, it's a question of not being able to afford either. > > Additionally, for many elderly genealogists it's not even a question of the > cost involved when visiting a NARA facility, it's the inability to be mobile > and make the trip in the first place. > > There is no doubt that digitization is needed so that people can access > these records from the comfort of their own home but the cost that will be > passed on to each subscriber is equally important. > > I can speak to the quality of Ancestry's digitized work, I can only add > that I have worked with thousands of passenger manifests and long ago have > given up on trying to get them to correct their errors. They have ships > named as "unknown" and in some cases ships have been given the wrong name > when the name of the ship is clearly visible on the image. They have > manifests filmed out of order, pages at the end of one manifest that belong > to another and their transcription of these manifests is poor at best, being > done by people who read and write English as a second language. > > At Immigrant Ships Transcribers Guild we try our best to have manifests > transcribed by volunteers who have some knowledge of the handwriting style > and the language of the scribe. > > I understand too well the costs involved in digitizing from microfilm. > It's far from cheap and that cost must be passed on to someone. However, > other companies such as World Vital Records and Footnote have managed to > keep the cost of their subscriptions affordable to most people. > > I would not personally be in favor of having whatever digital material > evolves from this contract being set aside in one or more databases for > which a separate fee is charged for each. Ancestry is already charging for > many separate databases while other companies such as World Vital Records > and Footnote are charging one subscription price for everything they offer. > > I sincerely hope the folks at NARA will look further for another provider > with whom to contract. Perhaps one that isn't spending millions of dollars > on television commercials, the cost of which also must be passed on to > subscribers. > > Sincerely, > Patty McCormack, Founder > Immigrant Ships Transcribers Guild > immigrantships.net > > > > > > ************** > It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. > (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) -- For genealogy and help with family and local history in Bristol and district. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/ http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks main blog GENEALOGE http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG -- For genealogy and help with family and local history in Bristol and district. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/ http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks main blog GENEALOGE http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG
you are talking of course about AFT or AWC both of whbich were indexes of other peoples work the original site was still free ancestry charged for the search engine Hugh W On 15/03/2008, CAROL <[email protected]> wrote: > Many Moons ago when I Put all my research on Free Rootsweb > for all other Fozard's To use > I was concerned when it was taken over by ancestry > Next thing I know all my work "verbatim "was on ancestry site and charged > for > I sent them an email protesting but no reply > So now reading all this > I have removed My information 35years of work from Rootsweb > > It would not be so bad but their charges are exorbitant for people to use > It just shows that its money, money .money > Not help for people and it worries me that more and more resources are being > taken over > > Regards Carol > > . > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- For genealogy and help with family and local history in Bristol and district. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/ http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks main blog GENEALOGE http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Hugh Watkins <[email protected]> Date: 15 Mar 2008 19:51 Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] What is Filemanager for freepages To: John Slaughter <[email protected]> for me genealogy is not about feelins but data I don't see US tv and just now I have neither TV nor radio in Denamrk becasue I can not afford it my own stuff is also a labour of love but I believe in sharing I am 72 years of age and whenI am gone if ancestry / TGN canmake money from my work good luck to them they will preserve it and my labours will not be in vain when you are dead US GenWeb willhave to find new funding for the sites you pay for you could of course use http://pages.google.com/ for example not geocirties they delete older stuff Hugh W On 15/03/2008, John Slaughter <[email protected]> wrote: snip > > I am extremely proud to be a member of USGenWeb and helping to provide > this information freely to everyone. I am a firm believer that anything > that is in the public domain should be free. The time I put into all of > my work has no price. It is a labor of love. Love for genealogy and > history. Love for the cousins I have already met and those I've yet to > meet. The great feeling I get when I'm able to help someone break down a > brick wall. There is no way to put a price tag on these things. > > This is the end of this thread. Everyone knows how I feel. Everyone is > free to draw their own conclusions and do what they feel is best for > them. > > -- For genealogy and help with family and local history in Bristol and district. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/ http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks main blog GENEALOGE http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG
Hi, Listers, Just a request... The last digest I got had two two-line messages, but with all the reply with copy of previous messages, there were seventy-one (71) pages to scroll down. It takes so long to download on dial-up that sometimes it times out. Please edit the messages you reply to. Thanks much! Cynthia from Lake County OH Keep your words soft and sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
Patty- I say more power to them because the public domain NARA records can't be copyrighted by anyone--not TGN or anyone else. There is no danger of anyone having a monopoly on public domain records. This only means that Ancestry subscribers will have access to more digitized online records while everyone else can still access these public domain records through other means as they always have done in the past. If companies (TGN, FOOTNOTE, etc.) can't contract with NARA to digitize the vast wealth of records that have not yet been digitized it is never going to get done. Joan ---------------- Given that the National Archives is considering entering into a contract with TGN to digitize many of their holdings, I hope you will offer your comments, as comments from the general public have been requested. You can email [email protected] and let them know how you feel. Peace, Patty **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
Patty- This simply is not true. No resources have been "taken over." The FREE family trees at WorldConnect at RootsWeb and the FREE family trees at AWT on the Ancestry side are combined for searching and browing but they are FREELY ACCESSIBLE to everyone from BOTH sides--RootsWeb AND Ancestry. http://wc.rootsweb.com and http://www.ancestry.com/trees/awt/main.aspx Joan ---------------------------------- More and more resources are being taken over. It's very upsetting and my own family tree which I uploaded year ago can now be seen on TGN/Ancestry if one subscribes. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
Hi Carol, More and more resources are being taken over. It's very upsetting and my own family tree which I uploaded year ago can now be seen on TGN/Ancestry if one subscribes. Given that the National Archives is considering entering into a contract with TGN to digitize many of their holdings, I hope you will offer your comments, as comments from the general public have been requested. You can email [email protected] and let them know how you feel. Peace, Patty > It would not be so bad but their charges are exorbitant for people to use > It just shows that its money, money .money > Not help for people and it worries me that more and more resources are being > taken over > > Regards Carol > ************** It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
At 03:56 PM 3/15/2008, [email protected] wrote: >What I am concerned about is the suggestion that seems to be coming through >in this thread that my "labour of love" might be hijacked and >offered only to >paying customers. >Can someone please reassure me on that point and maybe explain what the main >concerns are being expressed here. Sandy, Generally speaking, we humans do not like change. Change constitutes a possible threat to our survival. So even though the upcoming change to RootsWeb URLs was carefully explained at http://blogs.rootsweb.com/newsroom/ as an internal domain name change that would not affect external links or the RootsWeb experience for visitors or users, i.e. favorites, bookmarks, anchor links, etc., there were bound to be some who would have a panic response. After supporting your site ( and many others) since 2000 without charge or recognition for that support, TGN decided that any reasonable business plan must include both acknowledgement of free hosting (banners) and stat counting for investors, who ultimately pay the bills. As Joan replied earlier, the AUP clearly states a submitter is the owner and RootsWeb is only a distributor. In my experience, the folks who complain most loudly about sites being "hijacked" are those who themselves want to claim "ownership" of the public domain data they have discovered and reported. In other words, if it was public domain when you (or anyone else) found it -- and of course you could not have republished if it were not public domain -- then it remains public domain. Once in the public domain, always in the public domain. Pat
In a message dated 3/15/2008 9:17:21 AM Mountain Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > is this it > > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~panda/ > > and are you the blond? > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~panda/us_about1.jpg LOL Hugh, yes and thank you for not listing the url for the pictures from the calander I gave my husband as a gift several years ago. I was able to access this site today and delete all the non-genealogy related files and learned a very valuable lesson. As I mentioned on one list, maybe this one, I uploaded things I didn't want to lose when I needed to swap out harddrives 8 years ago and forgot they were there until someone called me last night. With help, I got the files removed today and can only hope they are not cached somewhere else. Peace, Patty ************** It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)