Oooops!! I found out why my test page errored out. Tried to include an SSI which didn't exist. But, my CSS to set a left margin still doesn't work. George

Hi, Before year's end it would be nice to try the simplest CSS (maybe). Did a lot of googling and didn't find the answer. I want to have about a 1/2" left margin for the body of my page. <style type="text/css"> body {margin-left:20px} </style> http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ctmanshs/testindex.h tm Will this work? (p.s. just tried it and got "an error occurred while processing this directive) Yet both html & css validate. (Took a while to find the squiggly bracket on my keyboard :-) Thanks, George

Wow! You are cool Jim! --George On 19 Dec 2009 at 20:24, Jim Rickenbacker(3) wrote: > I've added Pat's solution to the Test Page at: > http://borisbrooks.com/testpage.htm. There are many ways to skin this > particular cat, most of which use Styles (CSS). My first solution is > strictly HTML. My second solution just replaces the deprecated <font> tag > with a style. Pat's solution is the CSS way that fixes (for those lines > only) the builti-n margins in the <h3> and <p> tags that were the cause of > the problem. > > CSS really is the way to go and inline styles are a good way to get your > feet wet. > > Jim Rickenbacker > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ROOTSWEB-HELP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Pat, I ageree completely. No way do you want to do your whole web site in inline styles but you gotta get your feet wet before you can learn to float or swim. Inline styles get your feet wet with CSS. Once you realize that you can put each repetitious in-line style into a single page style you're floating. After that it's a very short step to putting them in an external style sheet and -- you're swimming away. For grins, I've added your solution to the test page using page styles with a built in indent so folks can see how simple page styles are. http://borisbrooks.com/testpage.htm Jim Rickenbacker ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Geary" <patgeary@comcast.net> To: <rootsweb-help@rootsweb.com>; <rootsweb-help@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] Seeking single spaced text & indenting > At 09:24 PM 12/19/2009, Jim Rickenbacker\(3\) wrote: >>CSS really is the way to go and inline styles are a good way to get your >>feet wet. > ============ > > The biggest problem with inline styles I see is when you decide it is > time to move to an external style sheet, and you have more than just > a few pages, it is gonna be hard to clean things up. > > pat

At 09:24 PM 12/19/2009, Jim Rickenbacker\(3\) wrote: >CSS really is the way to go and inline styles are a good way to get your >feet wet. ============ The biggest problem with inline styles I see is when you decide it is time to move to an external style sheet, and you have more than just a few pages, it is gonna be hard to clean things up. pat ---------- Pat Geary, Microsoft MVP - Expression Web We discuss FrontPage and Expression Web http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/expression-web/ http://www.expression-web-tutorials.com/ Migrating from FrontPage to Expression Web EBook Revised to include EW 3.0 http://frontpage-to-expression.com/

At 09:24 PM 12/19/2009, Jim Rickenbacker\(3\) wrote: >CSS really is the way to go and inline styles are a good way to get your >feet wet. ============ The biggest problem with inline styles I see is when you decide it is time to move to an external style sheet, and you have more than just a few pages, it is gonna be hard to clean things up. pat ---------- Pat Geary, Microsoft MVP - Expression Web We discuss FrontPage and Expression Web http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/expression-web/ http://www.expression-web-tutorials.com/ Migrating from FrontPage to Expression Web EBook Revised to include EW 3.0 http://frontpage-to-expression.com/

Thanks Cheryl and all those who graciously offered solutions. Will be learning CSS this next year as that seems to be the real solution. Meanwhile will work my way through your ideas and hope my friend is goes along. Happy Holidays to all... and you will probably be hearing from me again :) George On 19 Dec 2009 at 18:57, singhals wrote: > George Waller wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > First, I am CSS illiterate so HTML only, please. > > > > I have this code: > > > > <DD><h3><b>Variant Names:</b></h3> > > <p>Starkweather House, Merrow Farm</p> > > </dd> > > > > I want "Variant Names:" to be followed by > > "Starkweather house..." separated by a single spaced > > line. Instead is is double spaced as might be expected > > since I used <p> > > > > BUT if I use <br> instead of <p> it is triple spaced! > > > > I wouldn't agonize so much over this but I am working on > > a template to be used for entering data for many houses. > > (Which is why the results are so bizarre when you view > > the page.) > > > > Any ideas? > > Seems to me that just the /h3 will insert a blank line. > If I'm right, then the p before the next line inserts a 2nd > blank line. So either/or, not both. And at the end of the > Starkweather House line, put a br not a /p or a p. > > If I'm not-right, hmmmm. ;) > > > > > The page is: > > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ctmanshs/00_templat > > es/template_web.htm > > BTW my partner *really* likes indenting and uses <DL> > > <DD> to do this. If there are better ways of indenting that > > would be useful info too. Non CSS ideas, of course :-) > > Many thanks, George > > Block-quote works, and a nested block-quote works. Whether > it's what you /want/ could be up for discussion. (g) A > table with blank cells before and after is another possibility. > > Cheryl > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ROOTSWEB-HELP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I've added Pat's solution to the Test Page at: http://borisbrooks.com/testpage.htm. There are many ways to skin this particular cat, most of which use Styles (CSS). My first solution is strictly HTML. My second solution just replaces the deprecated <font> tag with a style. Pat's solution is the CSS way that fixes (for those lines only) the builti-n margins in the <h3> and <p> tags that were the cause of the problem. CSS really is the way to go and inline styles are a good way to get your feet wet. Jim Rickenbacker

Pat Asher wrote: So I am unclear as to why you would try to introduce copyright as an issue. > > Even if the material *is* copyrighted, you have downloaded a copy to > your hard drive when you access the page. That is the only way your > browser can display the page for you to view. Single copies for > personal use are not copyright infringement. Saving that copy to > another location on your hard drive for later access and review is not > copyright infringement anymore than was the initial download to your > temporary internet files. > > What I and several others have pointed out is that "disabling right > click" is a minor inconvenience but a major irritant to your site > visitors. It doesn't "lock" any doors or prevent anyone from saving a > copy of text and/or images to a permanent location on their hard drive. > Doing so is not dishonest. > Doing so is not copyright infringement, regardless of the copyright > status of the saved material. > > I was making an assumption as to the motivation of why someone would even think of disabling right click, or any other scheme to prevent copying material for the casual user, especially on a genealogy web site. If your intent of copying material from the internet is to somehow indulge in an act which is copyright infringement, then my analogy to 'theft' or 'dishonesty' certainly does apply. I have sent you a separate message off list to further explain what I was trying to indicate by using my little story about locks only keeping honest people honest. What I meant was, if someone has in mind an act which is defined as copyright infringement, then they will find a way to do so. I wasn't referring to any method you or anyone else is using to view or utilize genealogy material found online. I TOTALLY agree that disabling right click, or any other method to foil easy usage of a genealogy web site is a major irritant, and violates the spirit of sharing such info. Jeff Owens > > > >

At 06:15 PM 12/19/2009, you wrote: ><DD><h3><b>Variant Names:</b></h3> ><p>Starkweather House, Merrow Farm</p> ></dd> ======= If you are not willing to learn CSS then there are lots of things you cannot do. Try this and see if it does what you want <.h3 style="margin-bottom:0px"><.b>Variant Names:</b></h3> <.p style="margin-top:0px">Starkweather House, Merrow Farm</p> Remove the dots after the opening < pat

George Waller wrote: > Hi all, > > First, I am CSS illiterate so HTML only, please. > > I have this code: > > <DD><h3><b>Variant Names:</b></h3> > <p>Starkweather House, Merrow Farm</p> > </dd> > > I want "Variant Names:" to be followed by > "Starkweather house..." separated by a single spaced > line. Instead is is double spaced as might be expected > since I used <p> > > BUT if I use <br> instead of <p> it is triple spaced! > > I wouldn't agonize so much over this but I am working on > a template to be used for entering data for many houses. > (Which is why the results are so bizarre when you view > the page.) > > Any ideas? Seems to me that just the /h3 will insert a blank line. If I'm right, then the p before the next line inserts a 2nd blank line. So either/or, not both. And at the end of the Starkweather House line, put a br not a /p or a p. If I'm not-right, hmmmm. ;) > > The page is: > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ctmanshs/00_templat > es/template_web.htm > BTW my partner *really* likes indenting and uses <DL> > <DD> to do this. If there are better ways of indenting that > would be useful info too. Non CSS ideas, of course :-) > Many thanks, George Block-quote works, and a nested block-quote works. Whether it's what you /want/ could be up for discussion. (g) A table with blank cells before and after is another possibility. Cheryl

At 04:52 PM 12/18/2009, Jeff Owens wrote: >All of the schemes under discussion are like locks on your door - they >only keep honest people honest. and At 01:58 PM 12/19/2009, Jeff Owens wrote: My point was not to nit pick at what level or what act copyright infringement might be defined to begin. My use of the adjective honesty was meant to describe in a metaphorical way that if someone will decide to violate copyrights in a some material way, such as using protected works for a commercial gain or even falsely claiming to be the author of stolen work, then what is left is only remedy at law. Hence, if you lock your door and someone breaks in, your recourse is the police and courts. If someone is 'dishonest' and motivated so, no lock is breakproof. And if using someone else's material outside the rules isn't theft by a dishonest person, I guess I don't know what is wrong with it then. --------------------- I can only presume you are referring to the previous threads about disabling right click which has nothing to do with copyright. Reviewing the posts about disabling right click, I don't see any claim for copyright of the the material for which right click had been disabled. That is not to say it is or is not copyrighted, but the copyright status is irrelevant to this discussion. So I am unclear as to why you would try to introduce copyright as an issue. Even if the material *is* copyrighted, you have downloaded a copy to your hard drive when you access the page. That is the only way your browser can display the page for you to view. Single copies for personal use are not copyright infringement. Saving that copy to another location on your hard drive for later access and review is not copyright infringement anymore than was the initial download to your temporary internet files. What I and several others have pointed out is that "disabling right click" is a minor inconvenience but a major irritant to your site visitors. It doesn't "lock" any doors or prevent anyone from saving a copy of text and/or images to a permanent location on their hard drive. Doing so is not dishonest. Doing so is not copyright infringement, regardless of the copyright status of the saved material. Pat Asher

Hi George, The problem is really that you're trying to do something that HTML really wasn't designed to do -- but it can. The The following are my best attempts. The first is straight HTML : <blockquote> <p><font size="4"><b>Variant Names:</b></font><br> Starkweather House, Merrow Farm</p> </blockquote> Note that I replaced the <dd> with <blockquote> for cleaner code (<dd> is only allowed within a set of <dl> tags). Also note that the <font> tag is deprecated and really should be replaced with styles. The above should validate as HTML 4.01 Transitional. The next replaces the <font> tag with <span> using styles: <blockquote> <p><span style="font-size: 110%;"><b>Variant Names:</b></span><br> Starkweather House, Merrow Farm</p> </blockquote> This should validate as HTML 4.01 Strict. You can see all the results at http://borisbrooks.com/testpage.htm Click view source to see the complete source. Jim Rickenbacker ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Waller" <George@waller.org> To: <rootsweb-help@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 5:15 PM Subject: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] Seeking single spaced text & indenting > Hi all, > > First, I am CSS illiterate so HTML only, please. > > I have this code: > > <DD><h3><b>Variant Names:</b></h3> > <p>Starkweather House, Merrow Farm</p> > </dd> > > I want "Variant Names:" to be followed by > "Starkweather house..." separated by a single spaced > line. Instead is is double spaced as might be expected > since I used <p> > > BUT if I use <br> instead of <p> it is triple spaced! > > I wouldn't agonize so much over this but I am working on > a template to be used for entering data for many houses. > (Which is why the results are so bizarre when you view > the page.) > > Any ideas? > > The page is: > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ctmanshs/00_templat > es/template_web.htm > BTW my partner *really* likes indenting and uses <DL> > <DD> to do this. If there are better ways of indenting that > would be useful info too. Non CSS ideas, of course :-) > Many thanks, George > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ROOTSWEB-HELP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi all, First, I am CSS illiterate so HTML only, please. I have this code: <DD><h3><b>Variant Names:</b></h3> <p>Starkweather House, Merrow Farm</p> </dd> I want "Variant Names:" to be followed by "Starkweather house..." separated by a single spaced line. Instead is is double spaced as might be expected since I used <p> BUT if I use <br> instead of <p> it is triple spaced! I wouldn't agonize so much over this but I am working on a template to be used for entering data for many houses. (Which is why the results are so bizarre when you view the page.) Any ideas? The page is: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ctmanshs/00_templat es/template_web.htm BTW my partner *really* likes indenting and uses <DL> <DD> to do this. If there are better ways of indenting that would be useful info too. Non CSS ideas, of course :-) Many thanks, George

Pat Asher wrote: > At 04:52 PM 12/18/2009, you wrote: >> All of the schemes under discussion are like locks on your door - they >> only keep honest people honest. > > I'm afraid I have to disagree. It has nothing to do with "honesty". > > There are many reasons for saving a copy of a web page to review at > your leisure. I do it all the time and the copy I save to my computer > is NOT copyright infringement! > > Think of the many people whose only access to the internet is through > a dial-up connection for which they pay by the minute. Saving a copy > for review "off line" is almost a necessity. > > As indicated earlier in the discussion, disabling "right click" is > ineffective for a savvy computer user, but to imply that a web surfer > who knows how to circumvent that is somehow "dishonest" is inaccurate > and unfair. > > > Pat Asher > > My point was not to nit pick at what level or what act copyright infringement might be defined to begin. My use of the adjective honesty was meant to describe in a metaphorical way that if someone will decide to violate copyrights in a some material way, such as using protected works for a commercial gain or even falsely claiming to be the author of stolen work, then what is left is only remedy at law. Hence, if you lock your door and someone breaks in, your recourse is the police and courts. If someone is 'dishonest' and motivated so, no lock is breakproof. And if using someone else's material outside the rules isn't theft by a dishonest person, I guess I don't know what is wrong with it then. Jeff Owens

At 05:01 PM 12/18/2009, anne-ology wrote: >Would you place your CSS learning steps here ... > for those of us - like me - not understanding it yet. =========== CSS Resources http://www.genealogy-web-creations.com/resources.htm scroll down to Style Sheets and their use. And some more http://www.genealogy-web-creations.com/css-resources.html pat

And, if I might add, it's better to think of the Web as a 1960s commune with the doors off the hinges and maybe just bead curtains covering the doorways. It's very easy to walk from room to room (page to page, site to site), share stuff (info), but a downside is how far people might take advantage of the "sharing". A 1960s commune dweller might have had no restraint about using anything you owned, including your toothbrush. :-D Even if a person living in a house doesn't lock their doors in a community, society doesn't allow some stranger to walk in and take belongings. And if people decide to live together, society strongly suggests that we don't leave out valuables if we don't trust the people who live with us. Web and informational ethics, unlike communes, means we all have to respect each other's "stuff" whether or not anyone uses "locks" on the doors. But if you have info or pictures that you want to keep 100% safe and the web has no fool-proof "locks", the better thing is to not put the stuff on the Internet. Instead, save it in a box or pass it to someone in the family with instructions to keep it off the Internet. Judy On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Jeff Owens <owensj@epix.net> wrote: > All of the schemes under discussion are like locks on your door - they > only keep honest people honest. > > > -------------------------------

At 05:29 PM 12/18/2009, Pat Asher wrote: >There are many reasons for saving a copy of a web page to review at >your leisure. I do it all the time and the copy I save to my >computer is NOT copyright infringement! And one of the biggest is trying to help someone by saving the page and working with the code to let them know what is wrong and how it can be corrected. pat

At 05:29 PM 12/18/2009, Pat Asher wrote: >There are many reasons for saving a copy of a web page to review at >your leisure. I do it all the time and the copy I save to my >computer is NOT copyright infringement! And one of the biggest is trying to help someone by saving the page and working with the code to let them know what is wrong and how it can be corrected. pat

At 04:52 PM 12/18/2009, you wrote: >All of the schemes under discussion are like locks on your door - they >only keep honest people honest. I'm afraid I have to disagree. It has nothing to do with "honesty". There are many reasons for saving a copy of a web page to review at your leisure. I do it all the time and the copy I save to my computer is NOT copyright infringement! Think of the many people whose only access to the internet is through a dial-up connection for which they pay by the minute. Saving a copy for review "off line" is almost a necessity. As indicated earlier in the discussion, disabling "right click" is ineffective for a savvy computer user, but to imply that a web surfer who knows how to circumvent that is somehow "dishonest" is inaccurate and unfair. Pat Asher