>I will stick with the standard that EW produces. I do not plan to change > my site again unless I go to xhtml Strict. EW only produces which ever charset depending on the settings you have when you make a new page what is the charset? ... thats what ew is producing... if its the old 1252 ... you should not be using that this is the one to be using iso-8859-1 if ew is producing 1252 .. then you must have done that setting cos its not the default the default is utf. us/western windows is what you have it set to under site settings - language tab ... it needs to be us/western iso for charset=iso-8859-1" plus it does not validate because you have not followed the instructions for the rootsweb banner .. the pudding proof is the live version. see - http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/xhtml-doctype/ Tina Expression Web Xmas/NY Giveaway 23rd Dec - 15th Jan http://www.frontpage-to-expression.com/expression-web-giveaway.html

My understanding of "charset" -- whichever one is used -- is that it determines how many characters get shown with the least potential for errors. I brought up changing the charset because the 12__ number is old and, as the Internet has progressed, the older charsets can introduce more errors in how browsers read and render characters. This page explains it better than I can: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/charset.html#spec-char-encoding The charset isn't specifc to RW but is needed for all sites. My old frontpage stuck in the older (oldest??) charset--- I had no idea what it was so I left it until I read on the list that it was old and should be something else. As a side note, I dislike "having" to make a change, especially if I don't understand "Why?" I look at webmaking 3 ways, depending on a number of factors. The 3 ways are: 1. Some of webmaking is like doing taxes... I may not understand why it is important (and think it's nuts sometimes), but it's the way experts say to do it and without a good argument against doing it, I just do it. These decisions usually result in no bad effect, so I do them. Often, it results in a better outcome than I had ! 2. Some things are just beyond me and I decide NOT to use the code because I have no idea what effect it will have. This includes things like CSS which I'm just learning CSS in baby steps. 3. And lastly, there are things someone says I "should do" and I research it. And after reading, I grasp the reasons and make the change. Usually, I find the other people were right all along. For charset, I used reasoning #1... I did it cos it's like taxes and experts said I "should". Then, i started reading about it (#2) and given what i could understand, I agreed it was a good change. Given that I use those 3 criteria, I'm the last person who'd ever insist someone change their pages just based on what I say. LOL Do what you think is good for your pages. And if you read something that changes your mind, that's fine, too. I hope the page I found helps. Judy On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 6:24 PM, Charles Barnum <jcnreno@charter.net> wrote: > Hello Tina, > Here are a few points to consider. > 1--Where in the instructions for EW does it say to set the page or site > to us/western iso, charset=iso-1 ? If the 1252 is "old fashioned" why > does EW use it? > 2--I did not set the charset to anything because I do not even know > where that is. > 3--I do not use RW Free Pages for that web site. Where the banner goes > and what it does is up to RW. > 4--As far as validating, it validates fine using the code checker in > EW. If some other validator does not validate it, I do not care. > 5--I did NOT follow the instructions for the Rootsweb banner because I > have never read them and never been told by RW to read them, and I do > not know where they are. I upload my pages, and RW is free to place > banners on them as they feel necessary. > 6--The web site you refer to as the authority is another one of Pat > Geary's sites. ( http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/xhtml-doctype/ > ) Could you provide a MS page in the future instead of her sites? > > Charles

At 06:24 PM 1/5/2010, you wrote: >The web site you refer to as the authority is another one of Pat >Geary's sites. ( http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/xhtml-doctype/ >) Could you provide a MS page in the future instead of her sites? ================= Since Microsoft has absolutely NOTHING to do with RootsWeb it is not likely anyone will point you to a page done by Microsoft to tell you how to get the banner to validate. Perhaps this will mean more to you http://searches2.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/HTMLHELP/2008-10/1225477892 Pat

At 05:13 PM 1/5/2010, you wrote: >Bottom line on what I did was to use NoteTab Standard (a text editor - >although you can also create html with it) to remove all the coding >except the basic table codes (see the source of the one below to see how >little is left). I realize from the discussion that ideally everything >should be in lower case. Saving excel tables without inline styles to FrontPage - A tutorial on pasting your Excel files into FrontPage without the excess code by exporting the Excel file to a comma delimited (csv) file, opening into Notepad and pasting into FrontPage. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/excel-tables-in-frontpage.htm Saving Word and Excel Tables in FrontPage, alternative way - A tutorial on pasting you Excel files into FrontPage without excess code by adding the table layout in Excel and then pasting into Notepad then FrontPage. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/excel-tables-in-frontpage2.htm Make Sortable Tables http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gearyfamily/expression-web/sort-table.html Data Tables in FrontPage http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/data-table-example.htm Data Tables Using TableToClipboard http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/tabletoclipboard.html pat

You used PRE as I did when I originally set up the table on the RIGenWeb site - see http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rigenweb/cemetery/cemetery030.html This works well for few columns. Bottom line on what I did was to use NoteTab Standard (a text editor - although you can also create html with it) to remove all the coding except the basic table codes (see the source of the one below to see how little is left). I realize from the discussion that ideally everything should be in lower case. The actual steps: I save the table from Excel to tab delimited text. I opened that text file in a copy of Word 97 that I keep only for this kind of purpose because it inserts far less junk. I convert it to a table using the tabs to define the columns. If necessary, I change the font and save as html. That html file I open in Note Tab Standard to clean up the code. The result is then pasted into the source of the page. Not elegant, but it works and I've been doing it this way for years so it's quick for me. You could convert from Excel to html and then clean up the code. Susan On 1/5/2010 4:11 PM, Charles Barnum wrote: > Susan, Can you walk me thru how you got it from Excel to your web page? > Charles > > Susan W Pieroth wrote: >> I have a series of marriage index pages. The tables were also converted >> from Excel, but I left in lines to help the eye follow the record. I >> also allowed word wrap and a 100% table to eliminate the scroll bar. See >> http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~palackaw/marriages/marriage438.html as >> an example. >> >> Susan

Pat, I came to this list to learn and share, not to be lectured to and to argue with others. That finger wagging post Tina sent to that list member at 3:40PM was enough for me. So, so-long. I'll look for a friendlier list. Goodbye and have a good one. Charles Barnum Patricia Geary wrote: > At 06:24 PM 1/5/2010, you wrote: > >> The web site you refer to as the authority is another one of Pat >> Geary's sites. ( http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/xhtml-doctype/ >> ) Could you provide a MS page in the future instead of her sites? >> > > ================= > > Since Microsoft has absolutely NOTHING to do with RootsWeb it is not > likely anyone will point you to a page done by Microsoft to tell you > how to get the banner to validate. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>THAT IS AN ABSURD STATEMENT > > Perhaps this will mean more to you > http://searches2.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/HTMLHELP/2008-10/1225477892 > > Pat > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSWEB-HELP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.126/2601 - Release Date: 01/04/10 23:35:00 > >

I have a series of marriage index pages. The tables were also converted from Excel, but I left in lines to help the eye follow the record. I also allowed word wrap and a 100% table to eliminate the scroll bar. See http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~palackaw/marriages/marriage438.html as an example. Susan On 1/5/2010 2:46 PM, Charles Barnum wrote: > I will stick with the standard that EW produces. I do not plan to change > my site again unless I go to xhtml Strict. > > This cemetery survey was put up a few seconds ago using xhtml and EW. > > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nma/catron/aragoncemetery.html > > I will be adding photo links to each name in a day or two. > If anyone has a better idea how to put a big and wide file like this > online, please give us a blast.

Susan, Thank you for that great info. I have copied and saved your email as a future reference. Charles Susan W Pieroth wrote: > You used PRE as I did when I originally set up the table on the RIGenWeb > site - see > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rigenweb/cemetery/cemetery030.html > > This works well for few columns. > > Bottom line on what I did was to use NoteTab Standard (a text editor - > although you can also create html with it) to remove all the coding > except the basic table codes (see the source of the one below to see how > little is left). I realize from the discussion that ideally everything > should be in lower case. > > The actual steps: I save the table from Excel to tab delimited text. I > opened that text file in a copy of Word 97 that I keep only for this > kind of purpose because it inserts far less junk. I convert it to a > table using the tabs to define the columns. If necessary, I change the > font and save as html. That html file I open in Note Tab Standard to > clean up the code. The result is then pasted into the source of the > page. Not elegant, but it works and I've been doing it this way for > years so it's quick for me. You could convert from Excel to html and > then clean up the code. > > Susan > > On 1/5/2010 4:11 PM, Charles Barnum wrote: > >> Susan, Can you walk me thru how you got it from Excel to your web page? >> Charles >> >> Susan W Pieroth wrote: >> >>> I have a series of marriage index pages. The tables were also converted >>> from Excel, but I left in lines to help the eye follow the record. I >>> also allowed word wrap and a 100% table to eliminate the scroll bar. See >>> http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~palackaw/marriages/marriage438.html as >>> an example. >>> >>> Susan >>> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSWEB-HELP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.126/2601 - Release Date: 01/04/10 23:35:00 > >

Hello Tina, Here are a few points to consider. 1--Where in the instructions for EW does it say to set the page or site to us/western iso, charset=iso-1 ? If the 1252 is "old fashioned" why does EW use it? 2--I did not set the charset to anything because I do not even know where that is. 3--I do not use RW Free Pages for that web site. Where the banner goes and what it does is up to RW. 4--As far as validating, it validates fine using the code checker in EW. If some other validator does not validate it, I do not care. 5--I did NOT follow the instructions for the Rootsweb banner because I have never read them and never been told by RW to read them, and I do not know where they are. I upload my pages, and RW is free to place banners on them as they feel necessary. 6--The web site you refer to as the authority is another one of Pat Geary's sites. ( http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/xhtml-doctype/ ) Could you provide a MS page in the future instead of her sites? Charles Tina Clarke wrote: >> I will stick with the standard that EW produces. I do not plan to change >> my site again unless I go to xhtml Strict. >> > > EW only produces which ever charset depending on the settings you have > > when you make a new page what is the charset? ... thats what ew is > producing... > > if its the old 1252 ... you should not be using that > > this is the one to be using > > iso-8859-1 > > if ew is producing 1252 .. then you must have done that setting cos its not > the default the default is utf. > > us/western windows is what you have it set to under site settings - language > tab ... it needs to be us/western iso for charset=iso-8859-1" > > > plus it does not validate because you have not followed the instructions for > the rootsweb banner .. the pudding proof is the live version. > see - http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/xhtml-doctype/ > > Tina > Expression Web Xmas/NY Giveaway 23rd Dec - 15th Jan > http://www.frontpage-to-expression.com/expression-web-giveaway.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSWEB-HELP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.126/2601 - Release Date: 01/04/10 23:35:00 > >

At 02:34 PM 1/5/2010, Robert Sullivan wrote: >Or to put it another way, if you are validating your pages to a strict >doctype, whether it's HTML 4.01 or XHTML 1.0 is a matter of taste. >Either one will help you a lot in future conversions. > >Validating to HTML 4.01 / XHTML 1.0 Transitional is better than no >validation, but it still passes a lot of crud which is better off >removed or updated. ========== If you plan to move from HTML to XHTML then one of the best things you can do is remember to write your code in lowercase and make sure tags are closed or self closing. Differences Between XHTML And HTML http://www.w3schools.com/XHTML/xhtml_html.asp Pat

> For much the same maturity reason, I'm avoiding XHTML 1.0. HTML 4.01 strict > works well, displays equivalently in IE and Firefox and should convert to > XHTML 2+ fairly easily. Or to put it another way, if you are validating your pages to a strict doctype, whether it's HTML 4.01 or XHTML 1.0 is a matter of taste. Either one will help you a lot in future conversions. Validating to HTML 4.01 / XHTML 1.0 Transitional is better than no validation, but it still passes a lot of crud which is better off removed or updated. -- Bob Sullivan Schenectady Digital History Archive <http://www.schenectadyhistory.org/> Schenectady County (NY) Public Library

>> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" /> > I too use utf-8 based on reading that it was an > international standard.  Does anyone else have > observations on its use? > George That's why I did it also. I was doing a complete renovation of my site and wanted to get it right. There's nothing wrong with iso-8859-1, but if you're taking the long view you might as well use utf-8. -- Bob Sullivan Schenectady Digital History Archive <http://www.schenectadyhistory.org/> Schenectady County (NY) Public Library

Susan, Can you walk me thru how you got it from Excel to your web page? Charles Susan W Pieroth wrote: > I have a series of marriage index pages. The tables were also converted > from Excel, but I left in lines to help the eye follow the record. I > also allowed word wrap and a 100% table to eliminate the scroll bar. See > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~palackaw/marriages/marriage438.html as > an example. > > Susan > > On 1/5/2010 2:46 PM, Charles Barnum wrote: > >> I will stick with the standard that EW produces. I do not plan to change >> my site again unless I go to xhtml Strict. >> >> This cemetery survey was put up a few seconds ago using xhtml and EW. >> >> http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nma/catron/aragoncemetery.html >> >> I will be adding photo links to each name in a day or two. >> If anyone has a better idea how to put a big and wide file like this >> online, please give us a blast. >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSWEB-HELP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.126/2601 - Release Date: 01/04/10 23:35:00 > >

utf-8 is a variable length character set, i.e. some special characters take more than one byte. If you are doing database driven web pages this can cause string processing problems for languages like PHP and Perl. UTF-8 shouldn't be a problem for static web pages but for now I'm sticking with iso-8859-1 until utf-8 gains maturity and more universal support. For much the same maturity reason, I'm avoiding XHTML 1.0. HTML 4.01 strict works well, displays equivalently in IE and Firefox and should convert to XHTML 2+ fairly easily. Jim Rickenbacker ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Waller" <George@waller.org> To: <rootsweb-help@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 10:59 AM Subject: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] utf-8 >I too use utf-8 based on reading that it was an > international standard. Does anyone else have > observations on its use? > George > > On 4 Jan 2010 at 23:24, Tina Clarke wrote: > >> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" />

At 11:59 AM 1/5/2010, you wrote: >I too use utf-8 based on reading that it was an >international standard. Does anyone else have >observations on its use? It's the default used with Expression web but I usually change it to <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" /> http://www.htmlbasictutor.ca/character-encoding.htm pat

I too use utf-8 based on reading that it was an international standard. Does anyone else have observations on its use? George On 4 Jan 2010 at 23:24, Tina Clarke wrote: > <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" />

I will stick with the standard that EW produces. I do not plan to change my site again unless I go to xhtml Strict. This cemetery survey was put up a few seconds ago using xhtml and EW. http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nma/catron/aragoncemetery.html I will be adding photo links to each name in a day or two. If anyone has a better idea how to put a big and wide file like this online, please give us a blast. I personally would not add all of the notes to this text layout, but I've learned to keep volunteers happy which makes my web site grow. Also, this page has no code errors according to EW. It is a new page, not a convert page from FrontPage, so it was easy to do right the first time. It took about three minutes once I had the survey in text form in Excel. Charles Jim Rickenbacker(3) wrote: > utf-8 is a variable length character set, i.e. some special characters take > more than one byte. If you are doing database driven web pages this can > cause string processing problems for languages like PHP and Perl. UTF-8 > shouldn't be a problem for static web pages but for now I'm sticking with > iso-8859-1 until utf-8 gains maturity and more universal support. > > For much the same maturity reason, I'm avoiding XHTML 1.0. HTML 4.01 strict > works well, displays equivalently in IE and Firefox and should convert to > XHTML 2+ fairly easily. > > Jim Rickenbacker > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "George Waller" <George@waller.org> > To: <rootsweb-help@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 10:59 AM > Subject: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] utf-8 > > > >> I too use utf-8 based on reading that it was an >> international standard. Does anyone else have >> observations on its use? >> George >> >> On 4 Jan 2010 at 23:24, Tina Clarke wrote: >> >> >>> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" /> >>> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSWEB-HELP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.126/2601 - Release Date: 01/04/10 23:35:00 > >

oh how funny.. I'll go up load it... blushing deep red! thanks Nelda My websites : http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ ---------------------------------------- > From: vanes002@umn.edu > To: rootsweb-help@rootsweb.com > Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 03:50:36 -0600 > Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] correct urls but getting 404 messages > > On Tue, 5 Jan 2010, Nelda Percival wrote: >> >> Howe file is in the h folder so the addy should be >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/h/howe.htm >> >> and it is.. checked view and source... >> it looks right to me...but still 404 even after refreshing. > > It's because howe.htm is not on the server. See your list of files here: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/h/ > > John > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSWEB-HELP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On Tue, 5 Jan 2010, Nelda Percival <nelda_percival@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Howe file is in the h folder so the addy should be > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/h/howe.htm > > and it is.. checked view and source... > it looks right to me...but still 404 even after refreshing. It's because howe.htm is not on the server. See your list of files here: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/h/ John

Hi, First website: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ then site map: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/sitemap.htm from the site map I can go to different pages but here I'll use surnames: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/surname-index.htm then the letter "H". http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/h/ah-index.htm This is where I'm having problems I can not access all the H surnames even though the urls are correct. Like Howe when I use the link I get the 404 message Howe file is in the h folder so the addy should be http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/h/howe.htm and it is.. checked view and source... it looks right to me...but still 404 even after refreshing. Help?? Nelda My websites : http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/