In a message dated 12/27/00 12:19:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, GLCALFEE@webtv.net writes: > I have been on Rootsweb mailing lists for two years and over the past > two months have subscribed to some of the census lookup lists. But I had > to cut back on emails so I unsubscribed to some of the lists. > Well now I have forgotten which lists I am on and which I am > unsubscribed to. Is there a way to find out which lists I am subscribed > to and which lists I am not?----Thanks for your help-----Glenda------ Hi, Glenda- Yes. You can obtain a list of any RootsWeb mailing lists to which you currently are subscribed any time, from Password Central: http:passwordcentral.rootsweb.com/ Joan

As a former newspaper editor and publisher with some knowledge of copyright law, I want to address the issue of copyright and obituaries. First, if the obituary is, as one writer suggested, simply a form that recites the facts, it may not reach the unique creation test of copyright law and therefore would not be legally copyrighted. However, most newspapers copyright the entire newspaper. So caution should be advised. If a writer went to some lengths to tell the story of the life of someone who died, I have little doubt it could be copyrighted. A biographical sketch would get similar treatment, even though the person may or may not be dead. However, on the practical side. . .I think few newspapers would pursue a copyright infringement suit over a standard obituary. It would be rather absurd to spend the money do so without an ulterior motive ‹ such as slamming a competitor. It is true that newspapers used to reverse the letters in names, even make up sham stories, to catch radio competitors and other papers repeating their material. So my own view is that I wouldn't worry much about a copyright infringement suit from a newspaper over an obituary. It might be legal to reprint it if it were a standard recitation of facts. It might be a violation of copyright if it were an extraordinary work. Nevertheless, it is doubtful if many, or any, newspapers would sue over the repetition of an obituary. The first thing you can do to protect yourself is ask the newspaper if it is all right; you might consider getting blanket permission. If so, I'd get it in writing. There is another thing you can do to keep from getting on their wrong side: Give them credit for the obituary. Of course, this also is an admission about where you got it. There is another thing that is done that is quite common in the news media, and I may get in trouble for saying this. Change it, or rewrite it, so that it is not recognizable as the original piece, but make certain the facts are right. If they had a typo saying 1898, and meant 1998, it would identify you as the plagiarist. Please understand that I am not giving legal advice. I am not a lawyer. I am a former editor. The views are my opinion and should not be viewed as a professional opinion. Copyright law is extremely subtle and complex. The questions about whether the family likes it or not, in my mind, are not material to the issue of the facts surrounding someone's death. A death is a matter of public record. The facts of birth, children, marriages, death are all a matter of public record. Some family members don't like obituaries stated a certain way. I used to have funeral directors tell me that the second wife didn't want the first wife's name mentioned. We did not grant such requests. They could be particularly odd when children are involved. The facts are the facts. Period. -- dhamrick@neo.rr.com Dan Hamrick 402 23rd Street NW Canton OH 44709 Phone: 330-454-2376 > From: "Morris Myers" <morris@themyers.org> > Reply-To: <morris@themyers.org> > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 19:05:09 -0600 > To: RootsWeb-Help-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: RE: Obituary copyright > Resent-From: RootsWeb-Help-L@rootsweb.com > Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 16:59:17 -0800 > > > Depending on in which paper the obit was published, the information is likely > already on the internet. Many papers now include the obit section in the > online > editions. > > g.mo > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sally Youngquist [mailto:youngqui@interl.net] > Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 6:42 PM > To: RootsWeb-Help-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Obituary copyright > > > Thank you for the viewpoints on copyright and obituaries. I reread the obits > and > see that they are more or less statements about the families, not a personal > write-up about the deceased. > > My second question, would the living family maybe not like their names, and > yes, > addresses as far as the town they live in, published on the internet. I still > feel it could offend some people. My concern was that it wasn't posted by a > family member who could take responsibility for it. > > Thanks for your replies and I will leave them on the site. If by chance I > receive any feed back, I can always apologize and take them off. > > Sally > > > ============================== > Create a FREE family website at MyFamily.com! > http://www.myfamily.com/banner.asp?ID=RWLIST2 > > > ============================== > Get Free Access to all Ancestry.com Databases from Dec 7 until Dec > 21!http://www.ancestry.com/home/celebrate/freeaccess.htm?sourcecode=736 >

Depending on in which paper the obit was published, the information is likely already on the internet. Many papers now include the obit section in the online editions. g.mo -----Original Message----- From: Sally Youngquist [mailto:youngqui@interl.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 6:42 PM To: RootsWeb-Help-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Obituary copyright Thank you for the viewpoints on copyright and obituaries. I reread the obits and see that they are more or less statements about the families, not a personal write-up about the deceased. My second question, would the living family maybe not like their names, and yes, addresses as far as the town they live in, published on the internet. I still feel it could offend some people. My concern was that it wasn't posted by a family member who could take responsibility for it. Thanks for your replies and I will leave them on the site. If by chance I receive any feed back, I can always apologize and take them off. Sally ============================== Create a FREE family website at MyFamily.com! http://www.myfamily.com/banner.asp?ID=RWLIST2

Thank you for the viewpoints on copyright and obituaries. I reread the obits and see that they are more or less statements about the families, not a personal write-up about the deceased. My second question, would the living family maybe not like their names, and yes, addresses as far as the town they live in, published on the internet. I still feel it could offend some people. My concern was that it wasn't posted by a family member who could take responsibility for it. Thanks for your replies and I will leave them on the site. If by chance I receive any feed back, I can always apologize and take them off. Sally

> Can anyone offer any sugestions as to how to prevent spamers from >"harvesting" email >addresses from our sites? The only sure way to prevent spammers from getting your email address is to not put it anywhere on your site. You can use a form that generates an email to you, so long as your email address is not exposed in the form commands. The RootsWeb mailmerge program allows you to do this. I have successfully kept my email address protected for the last 2 years by using forms, and by using a "throw-away" email address for untrustworthy uses. Regards Jim Keebaugh

My experience on copyright for obits: The obits are written by the Funeral Home and published in the paper as a service. I would think if anyone holds the copyright as to wording it would be the funeral home and they have told me that I can post to my heart's content. Linda

Sally Youngquist wrote: > > I am wondering about a couple of posts made to my GenConnect Obituary Boards. These posts were made by none family members from recent obituaries, year 2000. > > Do these recent writings fall under copyright and could these posts upset family members if they knew about them. I don't feel right about it and wondered what the policy is. I post all the obits I can round up for my various surnames, and have gotten nothing but thanks from family members. Most modern obits are simply recitations of facts, most of which are public record. If you see a passage that the family or newspaper would object to as a violation of copyright, simply omit that part, or summarize the relevant facts. And most important, make sure all of the family surnames are listed in the surname box! So many of our users have not gotten that message yet. My two cents, Valorie

Good Points Mike. I read the copyright laws available, and feel that we are all doing research...so topic is pretty much educational. Of course there are those hoping to profit off of what they find, but unless they see the documents themselves how can they say they know they are true? If I have work that has been copyrighted at one time, and I intend to do lookups using it, I always see if the work is in publication through the genealogy store at the Huntington Beach Library. If that provides nothing, I will attempt to contact the author's family by mail, phone, and other similiarly named people I find in the same state. If that doesn't work, I quote only the portions that pertain to the researcher's leads. Sometimes they have proven invaluable If using one of the many gedcoms I have had donated (which I keep seperate from my work), I have asked permission of the provider before using their material. Most request that notes be kept seperate from factual detail. Christen -- Please Visit My Master Genealogical Site http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~rosamili and follow the link there to GG's Genealogical Graphics Free Graphic Sets for the Genealogist Note If there is an +AH4- in the url take it out and replace it with a tilde , the key to the left of the number one along the top of the keyboard. CAPITALIZE it. :)

Hi all, I have three items of discussion on this topic: First: Most obits do NOT satisfy the ORIGINALITY requirement of the copyright code. The following is the text which I placed on my description/explanation pages for my GenConnect bulletin boards (which I have had almost since they became available.): Obituary board copyright requirements. Most obituaries are written from a template which compiles facts into a standard format. Such obituaries do not meet the standard of originality required by copyright law and may be posted to the board. Lengthy obituaries, such as those prepared for notable individuals, may satisfy the standard of originality and should not be posted if there is any doubt. http://www.rootsweb.com/~mikegoad/b-boards.htm The US copyright code says: TITLE 17 - COPYRIGHTS CHAPTER 1 - SUBJECT MATTER AND SCOPE OF COPYRIGHT Sec. 102. Subject matter of copyright: In general (b) In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work. Any template that is used for writing an obituary is in essence a procedure or process which, by the code, eliminates copyright protection for it. Second: Even if the obit were original enough to be protected by the copyright code, the facts and information clothed by the obit are not copyright protected and may be used. What I have done in the past where an individual was concerned about copyright issues was to re-write the obituary as a series of statements of fact. The following is an example that I used: The following obit abstract is from the November 3, 2000 edition of the Russellville, Arkansas Courier. I have eliminated all but the facts. What is left is in no way, shape, or form copyright infringement, because facts cannot be copyrighted. Ruby Rogers Died - Tuesday, October 31, 2000, Calvert City Convalescent Home Residence - Calvert City, Kentucky - formerly lived in Russellville, Arkansas Occupation - retired Montgomery Wards sales clerk Parents: Foster C. and Mary Jettie Bearden Thomas Spouse: Ulus M. Rogers (deceased) Religion: Church of Christ Children: E. Claud Rogers (deceased), Erma Jean Rogers (deceased), Kathy Rogers (deceased), Darrell E. Rogers (residence - West Memphis, Arkansas), Margaret E. Binkley (residence - Calvert City) Siblings: Thelma Earls (residence - Ft. Smith) Other relatives: six grandchildren, eight great-grandchildren, two great-great-grandchildren Services: 10 a.m. Saturday, November 04, Bee Branch Cemetery. Funeral Home: Roller-McNutt Funeral Service, Conway, Arkansas. Reception: 6 to 8 p.m., Friday at funeral home. If you don't feel comfortable about them posting the obit as written, I would suggest that you have them abstract it. Please feel free to use my example, because, after all, it is NOT copyright protected since it is nothing but facts. Third: Even if a obit in a newspaper satisfied the originality requirements of copyright law, the fair use aspect of copyright law should allow publishing of the obits on a surname bulletin board. (I doubt the same could be said for a county obit board.) The amount of copying from a the total publication of the newspaper is infinitesimal when you consider it over a whole year and the effect of the copying on the value of the paper is meaningless. From my web page on copyright: Fair use is a priviledge that is also a source of confusion. The statute is ambiguous, fair use depending on each case's circumstances. Four factors are considered: - Purpose of the use, including non-profit educational use - Nature of the copyrighted work - Amount of copying - Effect of the copying on the potential market for, or value of, the original work More information on copyright is available on my copyright pages at http://www.cswnet.com/~sbooks/genealogy/copyright/copyright.htm Mike Goad At 06:31 PM 12/25/00 -0600, you wrote: >I am wondering about a couple of posts made to my GenConnect Obituary >Boards. These posts were made by none family members from recent >obituaries, year 2000. > >Do these recent writings fall under copyright and could these posts upset >family members if they knew about them. I don't feel right about it and >wondered what the policy is. > >Sally > > >============================== >Create a FREE family website at MyFamily.com! >http://www.myfamily.com/banner.asp?ID=RWLIST2

If they are copies from a newspaper, they are copyrighted by the newspaper, not the family. I am not understanding what is being sent, if it is just public record (Name, birth and death dates), no problem, if it is a copy of what was printed, it is infringing on copyright. At 07:57 PM 12/25/00 -0500, you wrote: > >From my stance -- it is not a copyright issue... you have the right to >DELETE the posts if YOU believe they may be OFFENSIVE to people that come >across them... > > >From my understanding of copyright law - yes they are copyrighted... but >that does not remove your right to editorially remove them becuase they are >in poor taste... > >Granted I'm not an attorney -- but I think your safe in removing them... > >Jim >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Sally Youngquist" <youngqui@interl.net> >To: <RootsWeb-Help-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Monday, December 25, 2000 7:31 PM >Subject: Copyright > > > > I am wondering about a couple of posts made to my GenConnect Obituary >Boards. These posts were made by none family members from recent obituaries, >year 2000. > > > > Do these recent writings fall under copyright and could these posts upset >family members if they knew about them. I don't feel right about it and >wondered what the policy is. > > > > Sally > > > > > > ============================== > > Create a FREE family website at MyFamily.com! > > http://www.myfamily.com/banner.asp?ID=RWLIST2 > > > > > > >============================== >The easiest way to stay in touch with your family and friends! >http://www.myfamily.com/banner.asp?ID=RWLIST1

Hi Sally, Yes, the obituaries fall under copyright. The news paper that they appeared in holds the copyright. I remove such postings, and send the submitter an explanation of why they were removed. If the submitter can supply evidence of the newspaper's permission to publish (easy to come by) then they are allowed to post, but not with an authenticated permission. donna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sally Youngquist" <youngqui@interl.net> To: <RootsWeb-Help-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 25, 2000 6:31 PM Subject: Copyright I am wondering about a couple of posts made to my GenConnect Obituary Boards. These posts were made by none family members from recent obituaries, year 2000. Do these recent writings fall under copyright and could these posts upset family members if they knew about them. I don't feel right about it and wondered what the policy is. Sally ============================== Create a FREE family website at MyFamily.com! http://www.myfamily.com/banner.asp?ID=RWLIST2

>From my stance -- it is not a copyright issue... you have the right to DELETE the posts if YOU believe they may be OFFENSIVE to people that come across them... >From my understanding of copyright law - yes they are copyrighted... but that does not remove your right to editorially remove them becuase they are in poor taste... Granted I'm not an attorney -- but I think your safe in removing them... Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sally Youngquist" <youngqui@interl.net> To: <RootsWeb-Help-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 25, 2000 7:31 PM Subject: Copyright > I am wondering about a couple of posts made to my GenConnect Obituary Boards. These posts were made by none family members from recent obituaries, year 2000. > > Do these recent writings fall under copyright and could these posts upset family members if they knew about them. I don't feel right about it and wondered what the policy is. > > Sally > > > ============================== > Create a FREE family website at MyFamily.com! > http://www.myfamily.com/banner.asp?ID=RWLIST2 > >

I am wondering about a couple of posts made to my GenConnect Obituary Boards. These posts were made by none family members from recent obituaries, year 2000. Do these recent writings fall under copyright and could these posts upset family members if they knew about them. I don't feel right about it and wondered what the policy is. Sally

Welcome Bill! They are terrible about answering Email, but when they get going, they can be great to work with! Patricia Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "B. Miller" <missb@flash.net> To: <RootsWeb-Help-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 25, 2000 7:16 AM Subject: Pickens Co., AL > Can anyone tell me how to "adopt" Pickens County, Alabama? It shows to > be "adoptable" on the Alabama site, however, I have signed up to adopt > it several times and have not heard anything from anyone about this! I > have also tried to contact the state coordinator as well as the other > people listed on the state site to get their help, but so far after 2 > months I still have received no answer or acknowledgment that anyone is > out there. > > My ancestors are from Pickens Co., AL and I would very much like to do > what I can to maintain the site. > > -- > B. Miller > ******************* > As you slide down the banister of life; may the splinters never point > the wrong way! > Lord, make my words as sweet as honey today; for tomorrow I may have to > eat them! > A POSITIVE attitude may not solve all your problems - but it will annoy > enough people to make it worthwhile! > In memory of Edna Ruth Ledbetter Teal > ******************* > Owner and general flunky of "Miss B's Place" > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~missb/missb.htm > Your friendly Goat list Administrator and Webmaster of the Goats Web > Site > GOATS-L@rural.rootsweb.com > http://www.rural.rootsweb.com/~goats/goats.htm > Co-Coordinator and Webmaster for the VZCo, Texas Web Site at TXGENWEB > http://www.rootsweb.com/~txvanzan/vzcpage.htm > Co-Cordinator of the VZCo. Genealogical Society Web Site at TXGENWEB > http://www.rootsweb.com/~txvzcgs/vzgs.htm > Webmaster extraordinaire of Maw & Paw Miller's Place Bed & Breakfast > http://freepages.travel.rootsweb.com/~mawpaw/millerplace.htm > > > > ============================== > Search more than 150 million free records at RootsWeb! > http://searches.rootsweb.com/

In a message dated 12/25/00 8:07:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, dbrand@itexas.net writes: > Yes, the obituaries fall under copyright. The news paper that they > appeared in holds the copyright. Donna- Certainly not *all* obits are copyrighted (even current ones). Many are merely forms with names, locations, and facts typed in. If copyright is questionable your course of action is, of course, the right one... > > I remove such postings, and send the submitter an explanation of why they > were removed. > > If the submitter can supply evidence of the newspaper's permission to > publish (easy to come by) then they are allowed to post, but not with an > authenticated permission. I would add that reposting an abstracted version of the obit is also always acceptable. Joan

In a message dated 12/25/00 8:00:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, jmgil@erols.com writes: > you have the right to > DELETE the posts if YOU believe they may be OFFENSIVE to people that come > across them... Jim- The instances in which a GenConnect board admin may delete a posted message are clearly spelled out in the Admin Center pages. The right and responsibility is limited to the situations outlined on this page: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/AdminCenter/responsibilities.html For a message to be 'offensive' it would have to be: "vulgar, obscene, combative, or slanderous" and I don't think that falls within what the poster is asking. Joan

Slredmond@aol.com wrote: > > Hi Valorie - > Well, we all know AOL won't allow Brightmail, and neither will Juno. Do you > know about Earthlink? I'm thinking of changing ISP's because AOL does not > filter SPAM, even though they claim to try! I get at least 10 pieces of > obvious junk mail a day (low, I know, in comparison to other folks) and > several that I delete that I'm not sure about. I hear many complaints from AOL users about their limited filtering ability and the prevalence of SPAM. However, I hear other complaints about Earthlink -- I'm glad my choices are not so limited! You always have the choice to sign up with a free service like Yahoo (Email.com) which allows you to have pop mail. You simply use a good mail reader like Netscape Communicator or Eudora to read your mail. You will probably be able to use Brightmail or another filtering service, and you may be able to configure it to pull in your AOL mail, also (I'm not sure about that). If not, you can go about the process of changing your email address, tedious as that might be! > 2nd question - why doesn't this RootsWeb help list enable the [RootsWeb Help] > tag at the beginning of the subject line like most other RW lists? I delete > lots of mail that comes over with "somebody help me please" etc. thinking > that it's spam, until I see it repeat on the list with the responses. I'm not sure who is the listowner of this list, Sandy, but you can always contact them with your concern at this address: Rootsweb-Help-admin@rootsweb.com . If you read your mail with a real mail program, you can filter each list to its own folder, and not have to worry about the lack of a "prepend"! Merry Christmas, Valorie

In a message dated 12/25/00 7:37:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, youngqui@interl.net writes: > I am wondering about a couple of posts made to my GenConnect Obituary Boards. > These posts were made by none family members from recent obituaries, year > 2000. > > Do these recent writings fall under copyright and could these posts upset > family members if they knew about them. I don't feel right about it and > wondered what the policy is. > Sally- Most obits are not copyrighted if they are the usual form-type information with only the facts inserted. Facts can't be copyrighted. Unless there is personal information about living family members (such as their address) I wouldn't worry unless someone complains to you about being included in this obit. It may well be family members posting these obits. If the obits are lengthy and contain a lot of biographical information you might wish to ask the poster to paraphrase or abstract the genealogical information rather than posting the obit verbatim. GenConnect's copyright information page is located here: http://genconnect.rootsweb.com/HINTS/copyright.html Joan

Basically it has to do with your ISP's quality of service. I had one ISP for a while - fed up with constant stream of spams coming through their ISP. Turned out they don't care if spiders get through, they disable all no-robots.txts on all sites sitting at their ISP servers. Switched to different ISP, since then one or two a month. And never reply directly to any such spam. David Samuelsen

Can anyone tell me how to "adopt" Pickens County, Alabama? It shows to be "adoptable" on the Alabama site, however, I have signed up to adopt it several times and have not heard anything from anyone about this! I have also tried to contact the state coordinator as well as the other people listed on the state site to get their help, but so far after 2 months I still have received no answer or acknowledgment that anyone is out there. My ancestors are from Pickens Co., AL and I would very much like to do what I can to maintain the site. -- B. Miller ******************* As you slide down the banister of life; may the splinters never point the wrong way! Lord, make my words as sweet as honey today; for tomorrow I may have to eat them! A POSITIVE attitude may not solve all your problems - but it will annoy enough people to make it worthwhile! In memory of Edna Ruth Ledbetter Teal ******************* Owner and general flunky of “Miss B’s Place” http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~missb/missb.htm Your friendly Goat list Administrator and Webmaster of the Goats Web Site GOATS-L@rural.rootsweb.com http://www.rural.rootsweb.com/~goats/goats.htm Co-Coordinator and Webmaster for the VZCo, Texas Web Site at TXGENWEB http://www.rootsweb.com/~txvanzan/vzcpage.htm Co-Cordinator of the VZCo. Genealogical Society Web Site at TXGENWEB http://www.rootsweb.com/~txvzcgs/vzgs.htm Webmaster extraordinaire of Maw & Paw Miller’s Place Bed & Breakfast http://freepages.travel.rootsweb.com/~mawpaw/millerplace.htm