Hi Sandy, Just a couple of personal opinions here: 1) You have a great web site -- really really nice! 2) The pages aren't that large so it's not very far to the top or bottom to get to the nav bar. 3) Personally, I think the pages without frames look much nicer than those with frames but that could be because I'm just an old curmudgeon who never liked frames in the first place :-). Regards, Jim Rickenbacker Jim Rickenbacker Kingwood, TX Home Pages: http://borisbrooks.com & http://ogsgs.org ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] Problem with new Ancestry.com banners > > Hi All, > About a week back I posted the details of a problem I was having with > multiple advertising banners over-writing the navigation bars on my > rootsweb hosted > website. > I have taken some time digesting the responses and investigating the main > thrust of the advice which was that I should abandon my out-of-date > coding, > (i.e. using frames and tables) and adopt more user-friendly coding > involving SSI. > > As a trial I have modified the first of some fifty frames of my site at: > _http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~dfsgal/_ > (http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~dfsgal/) using FP includes to place my > navigation bar top and bottom of each > page. So far I have modified just forty pages but with another > four-hundred > to go and this is a very time consuming process. > > > Having looked at the sites suggested as examples I'm not convinced that my > Frames site was all that all that unfriendly. > (Actually in the eight years of my Photo Tours site's development the > only > 'complaints' by visitors have been that I haven't yet covered their > particular > area of interest.) > > None of the SSI examples I looked at allow me to do what I was able to do > with Frames. > Using Frames I was able to place a fixed navigation bar top of screen or > side of screen or both. > > The Visitor could make a selection from any of my index pages and a > scroll > the image in the main viewing area without the navigation bar scrolling > off > the screen. My modified site no longer does that. The user must now be > at > either the top or bottom of the scrolling page before they can change to > another > location in the site. > > In attempting to understand SSI have I missed something along the way? > > Regards, > > Sandy > PS > For those who now find their sites have attracted Rootsweb banners that > were > not there before, here is the official explantion from the help-desk. > > A response to your Help Desk message, "WEBMASTER: Photo Tour of D&G > Graveyards," > of Wed, 22 Aug 2007, at 9:26 a.m. follows: > ------------------------- > Homepages were a perk for contributors to RootsWeb at a qualifying level. > RootsWeb stopped accepting contributions in 2000 when we were purchased > by MyFamily.com. MFC (now TGN) has supported Homepages accounts without > charge or banners for the subssequent 7 years. The banners are now being > added to all supported accounts to reinforce and emphasize the TGN > community. > If you have been using frames, you will see banners in each frame, as has > been the case at Freepages. Using more up-to-date and user friendly > coding > for page layout (CSS) will result in a simple and discrete header at the > top of each page.

At 04:57 PM 8/26/2007, [email protected] wrote: >None of the SSI examples I looked at allow me to do what I was able to do >with Frames. >Using Frames I was able to place a fixed navigation bar top of screen or >side of screen or both. > >The Visitor could make a selection from any of my index pages and a scroll >the image in the main viewing area without the navigation bar scrolling off >the screen. My modified site no longer does that. The user must now be at >either the top or bottom of the scrolling page before they >can change to another >location in the site. As far as I know, there is no way to do what you want using either fp inlcudes or SSI's so that the menus stay put. Are you using a template of any kind or just redoing each page one by one? pat ---------- Pat Geary, Microsoft MVP - FrontPage We discuss FrontPage and Expression Web http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/expression-web/ Genealogy Web Design Tips and Tutorials http://www.genealogy-web-creations.com/ http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/ - Blog

[email protected] wrote: > thrust of the advice which was that I should abandon my out-of-date coding, > (i.e. using frames and tables) and adopt more user-friendly coding involving SSI. [snip] > for page layout (CSS) will result in a simple and discrete header at the FWIW, there is a major diff between SSI and CSS; I don't work with Cascading Style Sheets, but I do know they're not just SSIs. Cheryl CC: WVHampsh -- There should be no attachments on this message, unless I specifically mentioned them above.

In a message dated 26/08/2007 22:40:05 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: What version of FrontPage are you using? Version 2000

At 04:57 PM 8/26/2007, you wrote: >As a trial I have modified the first of some fifty frames of my site at: >_http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~dfsgal/_ >(http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~dfsgal/) using FP includes to >place my navigation bar top and bottom of each >page. So far I have modified just forty pages but with another four-hundred >to go and this is a very time consuming process. What version of FrontPage are you using? pat ---------- Pat Geary, Microsoft MVP - FrontPage We discuss FrontPage and Expression Web http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/expression-web/ Genealogy Web Design Tips and Tutorials http://www.genealogy-web-creations.com/ http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/ - Blog

Hi All, About a week back I posted the details of a problem I was having with multiple advertising banners over-writing the navigation bars on my rootsweb hosted website. I have taken some time digesting the responses and investigating the main thrust of the advice which was that I should abandon my out-of-date coding, (i.e. using frames and tables) and adopt more user-friendly coding involving SSI. As a trial I have modified the first of some fifty frames of my site at: _http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~dfsgal/_ (http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~dfsgal/) using FP includes to place my navigation bar top and bottom of each page. So far I have modified just forty pages but with another four-hundred to go and this is a very time consuming process. Having looked at the sites suggested as examples I'm not convinced that my Frames site was all that all that unfriendly. (Actually in the eight years of my Photo Tours site's development the only 'complaints' by visitors have been that I haven't yet covered their particular area of interest.) None of the SSI examples I looked at allow me to do what I was able to do with Frames. Using Frames I was able to place a fixed navigation bar top of screen or side of screen or both. The Visitor could make a selection from any of my index pages and a scroll the image in the main viewing area without the navigation bar scrolling off the screen. My modified site no longer does that. The user must now be at either the top or bottom of the scrolling page before they can change to another location in the site. In attempting to understand SSI have I missed something along the way? Regards, Sandy PS For those who now find their sites have attracted Rootsweb banners that were not there before, here is the official explantion from the help-desk. A response to your Help Desk message, "WEBMASTER: Photo Tour of D&G Graveyards," of Wed, 22 Aug 2007, at 9:26 a.m. follows: ------------------------- Homepages were a perk for contributors to RootsWeb at a qualifying level. RootsWeb stopped accepting contributions in 2000 when we were purchased by MyFamily.com. MFC (now TGN) has supported Homepages accounts without charge or banners for the subssequent 7 years. The banners are now being added to all supported accounts to reinforce and emphasize the TGN community. If you have been using frames, you will see banners in each frame, as has been the case at Freepages. Using more up-to-date and user friendly coding for page layout (CSS) will result in a simple and discrete header at the top of each page.

Go to your admin pages and log in. Look for Membership management link and click on that. You'll see a box to type in the address that needs subscribing. Joyce Gaston Reece ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 6:57 PM Subject: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] Subscribing Someone > Hi, > I doubt this is the right place but: > I have a lady that is trying to sub > to a list and it won't work for her. > > When I went to admin to sub her > I cannot find how to do it and it > has been years since I have had > to do this and cannot remember. > > I went to help and I cannot find > the way they are explaining to get > to the area to sub her. > > Can anyone help me? > Thanks > Brenda > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - > http://mail.aol.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.6/971 - Release Date: 8/24/2007 > 2:59 PM > >

In a message dated 8/25/2007 6:59:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Hi, I doubt this is the right place but: I have a lady that is trying to sub to a list and it won't work for her. When I went to admin to sub her I cannot find how to do it and it has been years since I have had to do this and cannot remember. I went to help and I cannot find the way they are explaining to get to the area to sub her. Can anyone help me? Thanks Brenda -- Brenda- This is really a question better suited to LISTOWNERS-L or NEWBIE-LISTOWNER-L. You can subscribe someone by going to your list tools and clicking on Membership Management. Paste or type the address to be subcribed into the box and click the button to submit the change. Joan ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

Hi, I doubt this is the right place but: I have a lady that is trying to sub to a list and it won't work for her. When I went to admin to sub her I cannot find how to do it and it has been years since I have had to do this and cannot remember. I went to help and I cannot find the way they are explaining to get to the area to sub her. Can anyone help me? Thanks Brenda ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com

Patricia, Try HTMLGoodies. I don't like all the advertising and the guy has a real strange sense of humor, but it is written for the beginner. The SSI stuff is at http://www.htmlgoodies.com/beyond/webmaster/article.php/3473341 John Slaughter In loving memory of our son, Brennan. 11/10/88-5/31/01. http://john-slaughter.rootsweb.com/Brennan.html MA-Bay-Colony list moderator USGenWeb County Coordinator Essex County, MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~maessex Middlesex County, MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~mamiddle USGenWeb Town Coordinator Ipswich, Essex, MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~macipswi >From: Patricia Geary <[email protected]> >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] Server-Side Navigation on Rootsweb? >Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 09:34:15 -0400 > >At 08:40 AM 8/23/2007, you wrote: > >Hi folks, > > I've been watching the Ancestry ads, frames and SSI discussion with > >half an eye and suddenly realized I may be missing something. Can we use > >SSI on Rootsweb? And if so, can someone point me to a good web page or > >two (meaning simple and clear explanations) where I can learn about >SSI's? > > Thanks... Peter Bradish > > >This really only covers using the etxt format of SSI's but >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/server-side-includes.html > >I'm sure someone can point you to another tutorial on the html >versions. The one downfall I see to these is that you cannot view >them on your computer while working on them so if there is a mistake, >you will not see it until you upload your page. Otherwise they are a >great tool for ease of maintenance and design. > >pat > >PS If someone has a tutorial on using SSI's I would be happy to add a >link to that/those pages. > > >---------- >Pat Geary, Microsoft MVP - FrontPage >We discuss FrontPage and Expression Web >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/ >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/expression-web/ > >Genealogy Web Design Tips and Tutorials >http://www.genealogy-web-creations.com/ >http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/ - Blog > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Messenger Café — open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served daily. Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline

Assuming that you mean to change the date in the copyright notice, SSI can relieve you of even that yearly task. Copied from my page footer: <!--#config timefmt="%Y" --> <!--#echo encoding="none" var="date_local" --> This inserts the current year. The encoding was required by a clumsily coded recent server upgrade, but I think that Randy may have restored the old default, making that parameter unnecessary. You should try it first without the encoding="none". -R. Ron wrote in part: > 8>< > > The virtual include has been a lifesaver for me. When it's time to update > the copyright notice on all 3000 pages, I edit ONE page, upload it and I'm > done! > > 8>< > -- Regards, Rod Dav4is / P.O. Box 118 / Hyde Park, NY 12538 / USA Genealogy, et Cetera: http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~dav4is/ 481 ancestral & collateral families, mostly 17°-19° century New England & European roots. Total population: 117,600+ Annex: http://www.gencircles.com/users/dav4is/ email: [email protected] If man could be crossed with the cat, it would improve man but deteriorate the cat. -Mark Twain

At 08:40 AM 8/23/2007, you wrote: >Hi folks, > I've been watching the Ancestry ads, frames and SSI discussion with >half an eye and suddenly realized I may be missing something. Can we use >SSI on Rootsweb? And if so, can someone point me to a good web page or >two (meaning simple and clear explanations) where I can learn about SSI's? > Thanks... Peter Bradish This really only covers using the etxt format of SSI's but http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/server-side-includes.html I'm sure someone can point you to another tutorial on the html versions. The one downfall I see to these is that you cannot view them on your computer while working on them so if there is a mistake, you will not see it until you upload your page. Otherwise they are a great tool for ease of maintenance and design. pat PS If someone has a tutorial on using SSI's I would be happy to add a link to that/those pages. ---------- Pat Geary, Microsoft MVP - FrontPage We discuss FrontPage and Expression Web http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/expression-web/ Genealogy Web Design Tips and Tutorials http://www.genealogy-web-creations.com/ http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/ - Blog

Hi folks, I've been watching the Ancestry ads, frames and SSI discussion with half an eye and suddenly realized I may be missing something. Can we use SSI on Rootsweb? And if so, can someone point me to a good web page or two (meaning simple and clear explanations) where I can learn about SSI's? Thanks... Peter Bradish

Judy, No, no CSS just straight html using SSI. You don't see the include command because the server inserts the header/footer when your browser calls up the page. But every page is formatted similar to this: <html> <head> </head> <body> <!--#include virtual="/header.htm"--> body of webpage <!--#include virtual="/footer.htm"--> </body> </html> Whatever you put into the header and footer page will be inserted into the page. Don't use the FP "include" use the "virtual" include. The FP "include" will require you to upload every page every time you make a change in the header/footer file (been there, done that). The only "tricky" part is setting the path to the header/footer so pages in sub folders can find them also. Also some servers require pages to be named with the shtml extension (my RW county site doesn't but my church's site on GoDaddy does). The virtual include has been a lifesaver for me. When it's time to update the copyright notice on all 3000 pages, I edit ONE page, upload it and I'm done! Feel free to use the design. ----------------------------------------------------- Ron

In a message dated 23/08/2007 08:54:54 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Thanks to all who responded. Your helpful suggestions have been given a lot to digest. Should have read: Your helpful suggestions have given ME a lot to digest.

In a message dated 23/08/2007 08:21:59 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Have you investigated using server-side includes (SSI) for navigation? That is much less work for you, and much friendlier to the user AND the host server. In a message dated 22/08/2007 21:28:29 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: No it does not. Rather than use frames you use one file that is then included in all the other pages. When you want to change the navigation, you change one file. OK, OK I stand well and truely corrected. NO, I haven't investigated SSI but will do so. I'm not going to get away with just one SSI file though. The 50 frames in this site are in reality 50 separate sites with 50 different navigation bars. Thanks to all who responded. Your helpful suggestions have been given a lot to digest. Regards to all, Sandy PS Happily most of my others sites (not hosted by Rootsweb) DO NOT as yet attract advertising banners. _www.sypittdfs.freeola.com_ (http://www.sypittdfs.freeola.com)

Ron, Your site doesn't use an External Style Sheet, does it? Just HTML and includes? Would it work the same with just Frontpage includes? If it has no external CSS style sheet, I might like to copy your set up in a few months for a NON-genealogy website-- would you mind if I copy your basic page set-up? Judy On Aug 22, 2007, at 4:23 PM, Ron wrote: > My site at http://www.rootsweb.com/~okchocta uses SSI for the top & > bottom > navigation/logo banners. As previously mentioned, to change ALL > pages I only > have to edit ONE page (or two pages if I want to change both header & > footer).

Very nice looking site - nice design. Gloria On Aug 22, 2007, at 4:23 PM, Ron wrote: > Sandy, > Actually I kinda like frames but a virtual Server Side Include does > the > navigation trick very nicely with a whole lot less work. > > My site at http://www.rootsweb.com/~okchocta uses SSI for the top & > bottom > navigation/logo banners. As previously mentioned, to change ALL > pages I only > have to edit ONE page (or two pages if I want to change both header & > footer). > > Just two lines of code have to be inserted into each page, along > the lines > of <!--#include virtual="/~okchocta/header.htm"--> and <!--#include > virtual="/~okchocta/footer.htm"--> > > ----------------------------------------------------- > Ron > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSWEB-HELP- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

On Wednesday 22 August 2007 13:00, [email protected] wrote: > In a message dated 22/08/2007 17:50:17 GMT Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > > See if this helps any > http://www.genealogy-web-creations.com/frames/framed-website.html ::snip:: > I'm hoping something can be done to avoid a total rebuild. > As you will no doubt appreciate, using frames makes the navigation system > is much more friendly to the user. ::snip:: I would take vigorous issue with that. Using frames is very user-UNfriendly. You are never on the page you think you are on, unless you escape from the frames. If you provide no "non-frame" navigation, bookmarking photos or pages of interest leads only to dead ends. Frames might be snazzy, but they pretty much suck for users of websites. Have you investigated using server-side includes (SSI) for navigation? That is much less work for you, and much friendlier to the user AND the host server. Valorie

Is it possible that not all webmasters have been notified of the banners? I have a website as a result of previously sponsoring RootsWeb. I think it's a more than fair tradeoff to "allow" the banners for the privilege of having free web space from RootsWeb or Ancestry. I've only checked a couple of sites but haven't seen a banner or received notification. Marie.