I'm a little scared about current technology, it is changing so fast. So before you get any ideas about me that aren't true, understand I turned down a job at MS in the early 80's to my dismay, have written printer drivers in assembler and admin several servers. I also have a hundred or so files written in DOS for Word that are not readable as well as a Dbase III and Watcom SQL database that are worthless. I also have some tin types that are perfectly view able. So which was the better technology; Dbase III or tin type? My fear is investing in an OS or program with poor exporting capabilities, that I waste hours on for no long term value. I do like metadata on images because it seems cross platform and likely to exist in the near future. But MySQL worries me even if it seems solid now, DOS for Windows did too. Paul On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 7:06 PM, Tom Holden <ve3meo@gmail.com> wrote: > Quite large amounts of user defined text can be embedded in a JPG file in > the EXIF, IPTC and/or XMP metadata fields. It is not necessary to store > citation info in a separate text file when it can be stored in the JPG file > and is guaranteed to travel with it. The SQLite thingie I referred to was a > way to move captions between the JPG file and RM; if you store them in text > files instead, there still remains a gulf with RM to bridge and increased > risk of loss of data if the image and text files become dissociated. > > Good point about tablet viewing. While there are iOS apps for viewing and > editing EXIF et al, there are limitations and complications for images > transferred to the device. Neither is there a way to simultaneously view > the image and a related text file. Currently, the best way of viewing both > is to have them in a PDF file. > > Tom > > > > On 2012-10-25, at 11:51 PM, Paul Truzzi <paul.truzzi@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I write a text file with the same name as the photo with citation > > information. The photo has its metadata that I'm sure will work on other > > platforms and everyone supports .txt files. > > > > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 8:13 PM, Jinny Angelis <jinnya@msn.com> wrote: > > > >> > >> Paul > >> Are you saying you imbed the file name within the information in the > xml? > >> Or are you using a separate text file? I could see how either might be > >> useful if you have a good convention for naming. Best to think about > these > >> things as I have only scanned about a dozen images. > >> > >> Jinny Angelis > >> > >>> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:53:24 -0700 > >>> From: paul.truzzi@gmail.com > >>> To: rootsmagic-users@rootsweb.com > >>> Subject: Re: [RMagic] How t handle photos > >>> > >>> I use a similar naming convention. I don't leave spaces in the file > name > >>> as it occasionally causes issues with programs. Not all mind you but > >> often > >>> enough to be a pain. For my more common ancestors with the same given > >> name > >>> I usually include their birth year to help separate them: > >>> > >>> SURNAME,GivenM_(b1700)_Additional_Photo_Description,jpg > >>> > >>> While I like Tom's slick use of SQLite I tend to avoid using high > >> footprint > >>> solutions where possible. Today I'm using Win7 on a desktop, tomorrow > I > >>> might be on an iOS platform or android tablet. I want to ensure that > all > >>> of the work I do is still usable. So metatags on the image and text > files > >>> (with the same name as the image) to detail the image's source / > citation > >>> information and comments. > >>> > >>> Paul > >>> > >>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:07 AM, Rodney Whale <clargo@tinyworld.co.uk > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hello Everybody, > >>>> > >>>> Interesting suggestions have been made but I think that whatever > >> method is > >>>> used the important thing is to label them in such a manner that they > >> are > >>>> easily found from amongst the large collections that might be held. > >>>> I suggest the first word in a title should be the surname followed by > >>>> Christian name and then the maiden name, if applicable, in brackets. > >>>> > >>>> Regards, Rod. > >>> > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > >> > >> =================================== > >> RM list Archives: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ > >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS > >> WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: > >> http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > -- > > Paul > > > > > > =================================== > > RM list Archives: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS > > WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: > http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > =================================== > RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS > WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: > http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Paul

The pace of obsolescence is indeed frightening. I launched a broadcast audio library and archiving project in the 90's which, initially, was going to be most cost-effectively done on VHS tape. By the time it was contracted in the mid-90's, we favoured CD-R. It took a long time to implement and by the late 90's, the writing on the wall was that it would not be long before hard disk arrays would take over. The system is still running today long after it should have been replaced but the CD-writing jukeboxes are now dormant and the HD storage servers, which were initially intended to be a temporary buffer, are now the permanent store and just get expanded periodically. I, too, went through dBase migration from II to III and not so successfully to IV but managed to move some to Access. Notably, you could possibly resurrect your dBase III database with the contemporary dBase 2.8, free trial from http://www.dbase.com/ . Where there's a will, there's a way. Which leads to your DOS for Word unreadable files (I assume you mean Word for DOS). Did you know that Word for DOS 5.5 is available free from Microsoft? See this discussion http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?15238-MS-Word-5-5-for-DOS-for-FREE-(legally) . If you can get it to run, maybe those docs aren't lost after all. As to your worthless Watcom SQL database, are you aware that its descendant is SAP Sybase SQL Anywhere? There might be hope of resurrection there, too. If there was ever much of a market for an application and its proprietary file format, I think we can be pretty safe in expecting that there will be a tool that can do something with it long after it goes obsolete. That said, I don't disagree with your policy of making plain vanilla text files to carry metadata for image files. My position is that those independent text files are a safety measure and a library catalogue alternative secondary to storing the metadata IN the image file which I see as operationally more advantageous. That some OS does not support embedded metadata to the extent we need suggests we not use it when there are other OS's that do. If it's tablet computing we want to do (and I would argue that maybe the touch interface on small screens is not well-suited to a complex, text-intensive application such as genealogy software), then iOS and Android are not the way to go - better to go with Windows 8 Pro on a tablet or, preferably with a keyboard, convertible or laptop hardware. Tom -----Original Message----- From: Paul Truzzi Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 11:45 PM To: rootsmagic-users@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [RMagic] How to handle photos I'm a little scared about current technology, it is changing so fast. So before you get any ideas about me that aren't true, understand I turned down a job at MS in the early 80's to my dismay, have written printer drivers in assembler and admin several servers. I also have a hundred or so files written in DOS for Word that are not readable as well as a Dbase III and Watcom SQL database that are worthless. I also have some tin types that are perfectly view able. So which was the better technology; Dbase III or tin type? My fear is investing in an OS or program with poor exporting capabilities, that I waste hours on for no long term value. I do like metadata on images because it seems cross platform and likely to exist in the near future. But MySQL worries me even if it seems solid now, DOS for Windows did too. Paul On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 7:06 PM, Tom Holden <ve3meo@gmail.com> wrote: > Quite large amounts of user defined text can be embedded in a JPG file in > the EXIF, IPTC and/or XMP metadata fields. It is not necessary to store > citation info in a separate text file when it can be stored in the JPG > file > and is guaranteed to travel with it. The SQLite thingie I referred to was > a > way to move captions between the JPG file and RM; if you store them in > text > files instead, there still remains a gulf with RM to bridge and increased > risk of loss of data if the image and text files become dissociated. > > Good point about tablet viewing. While there are iOS apps for viewing and > editing EXIF et al, there are limitations and complications for images > transferred to the device. Neither is there a way to simultaneously view > the image and a related text file. Currently, the best way of viewing both > is to have them in a PDF file. > > Tom > > > > On 2012-10-25, at 11:51 PM, Paul Truzzi <paul.truzzi@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I write a text file with the same name as the photo with citation > > information. The photo has its metadata that I'm sure will work on other > > platforms and everyone supports .txt files. > > > > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 8:13 PM, Jinny Angelis <jinnya@msn.com> wrote: > > > >> > >> Paul > >> Are you saying you imbed the file name within the information in the > xml? > >> Or are you using a separate text file? I could see how either might be > >> useful if you have a good convention for naming. Best to think about > these > >> things as I have only scanned about a dozen images. > >> > >> Jinny Angelis > >> > >>> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:53:24 -0700 > >>> From: paul.truzzi@gmail.com > >>> To: rootsmagic-users@rootsweb.com > >>> Subject: Re: [RMagic] How t handle photos > >>> > >>> I use a similar naming convention. I don't leave spaces in the file > name > >>> as it occasionally causes issues with programs. Not all mind you but > >> often > >>> enough to be a pain. For my more common ancestors with the same given > >> name > >>> I usually include their birth year to help separate them: > >>> > >>> SURNAME,GivenM_(b1700)_Additional_Photo_Description,jpg > >>> > >>> While I like Tom's slick use of SQLite I tend to avoid using high > >> footprint > >>> solutions where possible. Today I'm using Win7 on a desktop, tomorrow > I > >>> might be on an iOS platform or android tablet. I want to ensure that > all > >>> of the work I do is still usable. So metatags on the image and text > files > >>> (with the same name as the image) to detail the image's source / > citation > >>> information and comments. > >>> > >>> Paul

The mention of old software file formats that are no longer available reminded me of a colleague who had written a book using Desk Writer on an old "portable" computer. Each chapter was a separate file. Due to a keyboard fault, he could no longer type the command to run the program. We connected an external keyboard and were able to run the program. The old computer had one of the early 720 K disk drives, not the then current 1.44 Meg drives. We had to find the old DOS command to format a 1.44 Meg disk to 720 K and could then save the files to a disk. I have a program called Quick View Plus which allows files in many old formats to be opened and viewed. The text can then be copied and pasted into a current program. The formatting is not always maintained, but at least all of the content is. We were able to recover the text of each of his book chapter files and paste them into a Word document which he then saved and printed. QVP or a similar program may be useful in recovering information from old Word for DOS and similar programs. I don't think it would help with many old genealogy program files, but it has proven invaluable recovering text from old word processor files. Ray On 28/10/2012 4:12 AM, Tom Holden wrote: > The pace of obsolescence is indeed frightening. I launched a broadcast audio > library and archiving project in the 90's which, initially, was going to be > most cost-effectively done on VHS tape. By the time it was contracted in the > mid-90's, we favoured CD-R. It took a long time to implement and by the late > 90's, the writing on the wall was that it would not be long before hard disk > arrays would take over. The system is still running today long after it > should have been replaced but the CD-writing jukeboxes are now dormant and > the HD storage servers, which were initially intended to be a temporary > buffer, are now the permanent store and just get expanded periodically. > > I, too, went through dBase migration from II to III and not so successfully > to IV but managed to move some to Access. Notably, you could possibly > resurrect your dBase III database with the contemporary dBase 2.8, free > trial from http://www.dbase.com/ . Where there's a will, there's a way. > > Which leads to your DOS for Word unreadable files (I assume you mean Word > for DOS). Did you know that Word for DOS 5.5 is available free from > Microsoft? See this discussion > http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?15238-MS-Word-5-5-for-DOS-for-FREE-(legally) > . If you can get it to run, maybe those docs aren't lost after all. > > As to your worthless Watcom SQL database, are you aware that its descendant > is SAP Sybase SQL Anywhere? There might be hope of resurrection there, too. > > If there was ever much of a market for an application and its proprietary > file format, I think we can be pretty safe in expecting that there will be a > tool that can do something with it long after it goes obsolete. > > That said, I don't disagree with your policy of making plain vanilla text > files to carry metadata for image files. My position is that those > independent text files are a safety measure and a library catalogue > alternative secondary to storing the metadata IN the image file which I see > as operationally more advantageous. > > That some OS does not support embedded metadata to the extent we need > suggests we not use it when there are other OS's that do. If it's tablet > computing we want to do (and I would argue that maybe the touch interface on > small screens is not well-suited to a complex, text-intensive application > such as genealogy software), then iOS and Android are not the way to go - > better to go with Windows 8 Pro on a tablet or, preferably with a keyboard, > convertible or laptop hardware. > > Tom > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Truzzi > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 11:45 PM > To: rootsmagic-users@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [RMagic] How to handle photos > > I'm a little scared about current technology, it is changing so fast. So > before you get any ideas about me that aren't true, understand I turned > down a job at MS in the early 80's to my dismay, have written printer > drivers in assembler and admin several servers. I also have a hundred or > so files written in DOS for Word that are not readable as well as a Dbase > III and Watcom SQL database that are worthless. > > I also have some tin types that are perfectly view able. So which was the > better technology; Dbase III or tin type? My fear is investing in an OS > or program with poor exporting capabilities, that I waste hours on for no > long term value. I do like metadata on images because it seems cross > platform and likely to exist in the near future. But MySQL worries me even > if it seems solid now, DOS for Windows did too. > > Paul > > On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 7:06 PM, Tom Holden <ve3meo@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Quite large amounts of user defined text can be embedded in a JPG file in >> the EXIF, IPTC and/or XMP metadata fields. It is not necessary to store >> citation info in a separate text file when it can be stored in the JPG >> file >> and is guaranteed to travel with it. The SQLite thingie I referred to was >> a >> way to move captions between the JPG file and RM; if you store them in >> text >> files instead, there still remains a gulf with RM to bridge and increased >> risk of loss of data if the image and text files become dissociated. >> >> Good point about tablet viewing. While there are iOS apps for viewing and >> editing EXIF et al, there are limitations and complications for images >> transferred to the device. Neither is there a way to simultaneously view >> the image and a related text file. Currently, the best way of viewing both >> is to have them in a PDF file. >> >> Tom >> >> >> >> On 2012-10-25, at 11:51 PM, Paul Truzzi <paul.truzzi@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I write a text file with the same name as the photo with citation >>> information. The photo has its metadata that I'm sure will work on other >>> platforms and everyone supports .txt files. >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 8:13 PM, Jinny Angelis <jinnya@msn.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Paul >>>> Are you saying you imbed the file name within the information in the >> xml? >>>> Or are you using a separate text file? I could see how either might be >>>> useful if you have a good convention for naming. Best to think about >> these >>>> things as I have only scanned about a dozen images. >>>> >>>> Jinny Angelis >>>> >>>>> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:53:24 -0700 >>>>> From: paul.truzzi@gmail.com >>>>> To: rootsmagic-users@rootsweb.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [RMagic] How t handle photos >>>>> >>>>> I use a similar naming convention. I don't leave spaces in the file >> name >>>>> as it occasionally causes issues with programs. Not all mind you but >>>> often >>>>> enough to be a pain. For my more common ancestors with the same given >>>> name >>>>> I usually include their birth year to help separate them: >>>>> >>>>> SURNAME,GivenM_(b1700)_Additional_Photo_Description,jpg >>>>> >>>>> While I like Tom's slick use of SQLite I tend to avoid using high >>>> footprint >>>>> solutions where possible. Today I'm using Win7 on a desktop, tomorrow >> I >>>>> might be on an iOS platform or android tablet. I want to ensure that >> all >>>>> of the work I do is still usable. So metatags on the image and text >> files >>>>> (with the same name as the image) to detail the image's source / >> citation >>>>> information and comments. >>>>> >>>>> Paul > > > =================================== > RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS > WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >