Of course you don't see it as a big issue because your data has a small proportion of same-dated 'natural' events, you have a tool that nobody else has to easily find these problems, and you understand how to manipulate Sort Dates to put them into the 'natural' order. Now click this: https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aforums.rootsmagic.com+birth+death+order and see that it is a recurring complaint among users to discover that RM does not know better and puts some of them in the wrong order. And that users migrating from other software that does handle them reasonably are stunned that RM does not. And moreover, there are users (not only new ones) who are virtually unaware of the role of the Sort Date and how to manipulate it to advantage independently of the Event Date, let alone the flexibility inherent in the -n suffix. While it's a non-issue for you and for many others, the evidence is clear that it is a real irritant and frustration for others, adds noise to the forums and detracts from the reputation of the software. I'm quite certain that RM support, along with the willing helpers in the forums would welcome the removal of this sore point. Here's an example of the arbitrariness with which RM presents events on the same date; four events, the first entered with Place=1, second with Place=2, etc. Here's the order that RM presents them: Edit Person before closing: 2431 Edit Person after save and reopen: 3412 TimeLine View: 4321 RM Explorer: 3412 Narrative report: 1234 Indiv summary: 1234 I used Birth and Death events in this test entered in the order BDDB. There is no tool in RM to report any problem with the order of these events. Users other than Red cannot readily find there is a problem; they may not discover it until they are well through proof reading a RM Book! By adding a suffix to the Sort Date (NOT the event date), these same date events can be resolved so that they are consistent among all the above screens, with the exception of "Edit Person before closing" which may not if any of the Sort Dates are still identical. So, for example, I append -10 for Birth and -70 for Death (it could be -1 and -2, respectively but using larger numbers and steps leaves room for the insertion of other same date events. Now that is pretty easy, for one person at a time. And the script I wrote for SQLite 3 will apply those offsets to every Birth, Death and other potential same date events in seconds, thus resolving most every same date disordering of these events that have a 'natural' order, but it, too, is not 'accessible' to everyone. What I have proposed is that Bruce makes a teensy little tweak to the software that should probably take him just a few minutes to write that would apply the suffix offset to selected Fact Types when it generates the Sort Date. I believe it can be done with a single additional CASE or equivalent clause of the sort: CASE WHEN FactType is Birth THEN SortDateString = EventDateString || '-10' WHEN FactType is Christen THEN SortDateString = EventDateString || '-20' ... WHEN FactType is Death THEN SortDateString = EventDateString || '-70' WHEN FactType is Cremation THEN SortDateString = EventDateString || '-80' WHEN FactType is Burial THEN SortDateString = EventDateString || '-90' ... ELSE SortDateString = EventDateString ENDCASE The offsets I have chosen here are for illustration. As the max offset is 4999, there are lots to choose from. Easy enhancement - happier customers - demonstration that RM is listening and responsive - what's more to ask for? Tom -----Original Message----- From: Red Fenton Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 10:06 AM To: rootsmagic-users@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [RMagic] RootsMagic 6 - sorting of birth,death and burial events when all occur in the same year I just don't see this being the big issue that people are making it. I just have never found it to be a problem so I wrote a small program to find where I had the same date for birth and baptism, birth and death, or death and burial; It turns out to be in less than one half of one percent of the total number of fact entries in my database. On those rare occasions when they might be the same I use the sort date or the more common case for me is where I pick up the Death Date from a tombstone I enter the death date as that on the tombstone and the burial date as being AFT the death date. Doing it at the time of data entry takes no time at all. I would rather see Bruce continue to use his time to provide us with new capabilities like he has been doing than "fix" a problem that is easily handled by the program as it now stands. ----- Original Message ---- From: George W. Durman <GermannaResearch@comcast.net> To: rootsmagic-users@rootsweb.com Sent: Thu, December 27, 2012 12:00:57 AM Subject: Re: [RMagic] RootsMagic 6 - sorting of birth, death and burial events when all occur in the same year I'm almost ignorant on this subject, but how difficult would it be for those who write the code for RootsMagic to make the program sort by EVENT, i.e., Birth, Christening, Marriage, Death, Burial, etc., regardless of the date? FTM does that automatically, Birth comes before Marriage, Marriage comes before Death, Death comes before Burial, etc. Is it so difficult to sort by logical Events? Doesn't seem to be an insurmountable problem, just takes common sense. If Birth, Death, and Burial all happen in the same year, why can't RM automatically align the events to show a logical progression? Sarge Germanna Database at Ancestry: http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/28427876/family My Germanna Database at Rootsweb: http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=germanna My Germanna Website at Rootsweb: http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/index.html =================================== RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message =================================== RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
I am usually quiet - but always here and have part of this group for a very long time. I have learned a lot on this list and continue to do so. I thought it was decided we had heard enough of this. It's still the holiday season - Lets take a more positive outlook for awhile. Deborah LaFine-Rhoads What a Great program that continues to grow and improve.
I agree. I would also like to see marriage added into the mix. I know there can be divorces and additional marriages (where date may not be known) but they can still be fixed by the current method Minifroggy -----Original Message----- From: Tom Holden <ve3meo@gmail.com> To: rootsmagic-users <rootsmagic-users@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thu, Dec 27, 2012 11:21 am Subject: Re: [RMagic] RootsMagic 6 - sorting of birth, death and burial events when all occur in the same year Of course you don't see it as a big issue because your data has a small roportion of same-dated 'natural' events, you have a tool that nobody else as to easily find these problems, and you understand how to manipulate Sort ates to put them into the 'natural' order. Now click this: ttps://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aforums.rootsmagic.com+birth+death+order nd see that it is a recurring complaint among users to discover that RM oes not know better and puts some of them in the wrong order. And that sers migrating from other software that does handle them reasonably are tunned that RM does not. And moreover, there are users (not only new ones) ho are virtually unaware of the role of the Sort Date and how to manipulate t to advantage independently of the Event Date, let alone the flexibility nherent in the -n suffix. While it's a non-issue for you and for many thers, the evidence is clear that it is a real irritant and frustration for thers, adds noise to the forums and detracts from the reputation of the oftware. I'm quite certain that RM support, along with the willing helpers n the forums would welcome the removal of this sore point. Here's an example of the arbitrariness with which RM presents events on the ame date; four events, the first entered with Place=1, second with Place=2, tc. Here's the order that RM presents them: dit Person before closing: 2431 dit Person after save and reopen: 3412 imeLine View: 4321 M Explorer: 3412 arrative report: 1234 ndiv summary: 1234 I used Birth and Death events in this test entered in the order BDDB. There s no tool in RM to report any problem with the order of these events. Users ther than Red cannot readily find there is a problem; they may not discover t until they are well through proof reading a RM Book! By adding a suffix to the Sort Date (NOT the event date), these same date vents can be resolved so that they are consistent among all the above creens, with the exception of "Edit Person before closing" which may not if ny of the Sort Dates are still identical. So, for example, I append -10 for irth and -70 for Death (it could be -1 and -2, respectively but using arger numbers and steps leaves room for the insertion of other same date vents. Now that is pretty easy, for one person at a time. And the script I rote for SQLite 3 will apply those offsets to every Birth, Death and other otential same date events in seconds, thus resolving most every same date isordering of these events that have a 'natural' order, but it, too, is not accessible' to everyone. What I have proposed is that Bruce makes a teensy little tweak to the oftware that should probably take him just a few minutes to write that ould apply the suffix offset to selected Fact Types when it generates the ort Date. I believe it can be done with a single additional CASE or quivalent clause of the sort: ASE HEN FactType is Birth THEN SortDateString = EventDateString || '-10' HEN FactType is Christen THEN SortDateString = EventDateString || '-20' .. HEN FactType is Death THEN SortDateString = EventDateString || '-70' HEN FactType is Cremation THEN SortDateString = EventDateString || '-80' HEN FactType is Burial THEN SortDateString = EventDateString || '-90' .. LSE SortDateString = EventDateString NDCASE The offsets I have chosen here are for illustration. As the max offset is 999, there are lots to choose from. Easy enhancement - happier customers - demonstration that RM is listening nd responsive - what's more to ask for? Tom -----Original Message----- rom: Red Fenton ent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 10:06 AM o: rootsmagic-users@rootsweb.com ubject: Re: [RMagic] RootsMagic 6 - sorting of birth,death and burial vents when all occur in the same year I just don't see this being the big issue that people are making it. I just ave never found it to be a problem so I wrote a small program to find where ad the same date for birth and baptism, birth and death, or death and urial; t turns out to be in less than one half of one percent of the total number f act entries in my database. On those rare occasions when they might be the ame I use the sort date or the more common case for me is where I pick up he eath Date from a tombstone I enter the death date as that on the tombstone nd he burial date as being AFT the death date. Doing it at the time of data ntry takes no time at all. I would rather see Bruce continue to use his ime o provide us with new capabilities like he has been doing than "fix" a roblem hat is easily handled by the program as it now stands. ----- Original Message ---- rom: George W. Durman <GermannaResearch@comcast.net> o: rootsmagic-users@rootsweb.com ent: Thu, December 27, 2012 12:00:57 AM ubject: Re: [RMagic] RootsMagic 6 - sorting of birth, death and burial vents hen all occur in the same year I'm almost ignorant on this subject, but how difficult would it be for those ho write the code for RootsMagic to make the program sort by EVENT, .e., Birth, Christening, Marriage, Death, Burial, etc., regardless of the ate? FTM does that automatically, Birth comes before Marriage, Marriage comes efore Death, Death comes before Burial, etc. Is it so difficult to sort by logical Events? Doesn't seem to be an insurmountable problem, just takes common sense. f Birth, Death, and Burial all happen in the same year, why can't RM utomatically align the events to show a logical progression? Sarge ermanna Database at Ancestry: ttp://trees.ancestry.com/tree/28427876/family My Germanna Database at Rootsweb: ttp://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=germanna My Germanna Website at Rootsweb: ttp://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/index.html =================================== M list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ ttp://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS ISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: ttp://blog.rootsmagic.com/ ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to OOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without he uotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================== M list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ ttp://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS ISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: ttp://blog.rootsmagic.com/ ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to OOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without he quotes in the subject and the body of the message =================================== M list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ ttp://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS ISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message