Although it is a total crock... what if I have a single birth source with a date of 1900, and a single death source with a date of 1899? Which order should we display this? Born 1900 Died 1899 or Died 1899 Born 1900 Keep in mind that whatever order you choose, someone else will want it the other way. - Bruce http://www.rootsmagic.com On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 8:25 PM, Susan Farmer <sfarmer@goldsword.com> wrote: > On 12/24/2012 9:50 AM, RootsMagic wrote: >> "Tough noogies" is such harsh language ;-) >> >> The sort date was designed to allow the user to sort events in any >> order they prefer, rather than RM making any assumptions that the user >> may not want. >> > > Darlin' while I appreciate everything that you and the RootsMagic > development team do for us, and your willingness to participate in this > forum, that's a crock and you know it. > > Who, in their right mind wants to bury somebody, then -- oh, lets have > them born! Then they might die and after that the christening! > > There are indeed some facts that I might want to sort differently than > you, but "born, christened, died and buried" ain't them~! > > Susan > -- > Susan Farmer > sfarmer@goldsword.com > Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College > Division of Science and Math > http://www.abac.edu/sfarmer > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium > > > =================================== > RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS > WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 12/24/2012 10:40 PM, RootsMagic wrote: > Although it is a total crock... what if I have a single birth source > with a date of 1900, and a single death source with a date of 1899? > > Which order should we display this? > > Born 1900 > Died 1899 > > or > > Died 1899 > Born 1900 > > Keep in mind that whatever order you choose, someone else will want it > the other way. > How can you die before you're born? You put them in chronological *life* order. It's not that difficult to give these events a default order -- that is then changeable by the user! (and I say that as a Computer Programmer) Susan -- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College Division of Science and Math http://www.abac.edu/sfarmer http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium

I'm with Bruce. A reputable genealogy program does not makes assumptions - no matter how obvious it might seem. I would not use one that did. Virginia

I would say that date order would rule and draws the eye to the obvious disorder. And that is the problem with the unnatural order that RM often displays or reports when birth and death are on the same date, whether that is a day-specific date or just a year- there is no reason for there to be a disorder. So let's focus on the same date event disorder and seek to resolve that. It seems pretty simple to me - just use the date offsets supported by SortDate for events such as Birth, Christening, Baptism, Death, Cremation and Burial. That is Date-x where x=10,20,30,40...respectively. Is there any reason that SortDate cannot encode an offset date for these probable same date events.? Tom On 2012-12-24, at 10:40 PM, RootsMagic <rootsmagic@gmail.com> wrote: > Although it is a total crock... what if I have a single birth source > with a date of 1900, and a single death source with a date of 1899? > > Which order should we display this? > > Born 1900 > Died 1899 > > or > > Died 1899 > Born 1900 > > Keep in mind that whatever order you choose, someone else will want it > the other way. > > - Bruce > http://www.rootsmagic.com > > > On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 8:25 PM, Susan Farmer <sfarmer@goldsword.com> wrote: >> On 12/24/2012 9:50 AM, RootsMagic wrote: >>> "Tough noogies" is such harsh language ;-) >>> >>> The sort date was designed to allow the user to sort events in any >>> order they prefer, rather than RM making any assumptions that the user >>> may not want. >> >> Darlin' while I appreciate everything that you and the RootsMagic >> development team do for us, and your willingness to participate in this >> forum, that's a crock and you know it. >> >> Who, in their right mind wants to bury somebody, then -- oh, lets have >> them born! Then they might die and after that the christening! >> >> There are indeed some facts that I might want to sort differently than >> you, but "born, christened, died and buried" ain't them~! >> >> Susan >> -- >> Susan Farmer >> sfarmer@goldsword.com >> Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College >> Division of Science and Math >> http://www.abac.edu/sfarmer >> http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium >> >> >> =================================== >> RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS >> WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > =================================== > RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS > WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Although it is a total crock... what if I have a single birth source with a date of 1900, and a single death source with a date of 1899? Which order should we display this? Born 1900 Died 1899 or Died 1899 Born 1900 Keep in mind that whatever order you choose, someone else will want it the other way. - Bruce http://www.rootsmagic.com Bruce, your point is well taken with this particular example. I’m doubtful that you would get disagreement from very many users that the default order in the case below should be death before birth, and that the user could override the default order by using sort dates: Died 1899 Born 1900 But that’s not the issue at hand. The issue at hand and what has always been the issue is when the dates are the same. When the dates are the same, the following is just wrong. Died 1900 Born 1900 Just to amplify this point further, Tom Holden’s neat little SQLite script to fix obvious event ordering problems will fix the “died 1900, born 1900” case (as well it should), and his script will not fix the “born 1899, died 1900” case (as well it should not). The “born 1899, died 1900” case should only be fixed by some sort of conscious decision by the user – such as adding sort dates or such as deciding that the death source is more credible than the birth source or vice versa. Jerry

Jerry, I haven't tried Tom's script, but I see that it puts a -# on the end of the sort date. I'm asking the following questions just to get an idea of how it handles situations which aren't simply two events with the same date. How does it handle a birth and death where neither has a date (and therefore no sort dates). How does it handle a situation like this? Married 1800 Born (no date) Died (no date) - Bruce On Tuesday, December 25, 2012, Jerry Bryan wrote: > Although it is a total crock... what if I have a single birth source > with a date of 1900, and a single death source with a date of 1899? > > Which order should we display this? > > Born 1900 > Died 1899 > > or > > Died 1899 > Born 1900 > > Keep in mind that whatever order you choose, someone else will want it > the other way. > > - Bruce > http://www.rootsmagic.com > > > Bruce, your point is well taken with this particular example. I’m doubtful > that you would get disagreement from very many users that the default order > in the case below should be death before birth, and that the user could > override the default order by using sort dates: > > Died 1899 > Born 1900 > > > > But that’s not the issue at hand. The issue at hand and what has always > been the issue is when the dates are the same. When the dates are the same, > the following is just wrong. > > Died 1900 > Born 1900 > > > Just to amplify this point further, Tom Holden’s neat little SQLite script > to fix obvious event ordering problems will fix the “died 1900, born 1900” > case (as well it should), and his script will not fix the “born 1899, died > 1900” case (as well it should not). The “born 1899, died 1900” case should > only be fixed by some sort of conscious decision by the user – such as > adding sort dates or such as deciding that the death source is more > credible than the birth source or vice versa. > > Jerry > > > =================================== > RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS > WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: > http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com <javascript:;> with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- - Bruce http://www.rootsmagic.com

A sort date is not the same as an event date. See your book and the event entry screen birth bef 1800 married 1800 death aft 1800 Paul A. Studly, Esq. Chesterland/Cleveland, OH 440-829-9207 Verizon cell paulstudly@studly.net ________________________________ From: RootsMagic <rootsmagic@gmail.com> To: "rootsmagic-users@rootsweb.com" <rootsmagic-users@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tue, December 25, 2012 9:39:05 AM Subject: Re: [RMagic] RootsMagic 6 - sorting of birth, death and burial events when all occur in the same year Jerry, I haven't tried Tom's script, but I see that it puts a -# on the end of the sort date. I'm asking the following questions just to get an idea of how it handles situations which aren't simply two events with the same date. How does it handle a birth and death where neither has a date (and therefore no sort dates). How does it handle a situation like this? Married 1800 Born (no date) Died (no date) - Bruce On Tuesday, December 25, 2012, Jerry Bryan wrote: > Although it is a total crock... what if I have a single birth source > with a date of 1900, and a single death source with a date of 1899? > > Which order should we display this? > > Born 1900 > Died 1899 > > or > > Died 1899 > Born 1900 > > Keep in mind that whatever order you choose, someone else will want it > the other way. > > - Bruce > http://www.rootsmagic.com > > > Bruce, your point is well taken with this particular example. I’m doubtful > that you would get disagreement from very many users that the default order > in the case below should be death before birth, and that the user could > override the default order by using sort dates: > > Died 1899 > Born 1900 > > > > But that’s not the issue at hand. The issue at hand and what has always > been the issue is when the dates are the same. When the dates are the same, > the following is just wrong. > > Died 1900 > Born 1900 > > > Just to amplify this point further, Tom Holden’s neat little SQLite script > to fix obvious event ordering problems will fix the “died 1900, born 1900” > case (as well it should), and his script will not fix the “born 1899, died > 1900” case (as well it should not). The “born 1899, died 1900” case should > only be fixed by some sort of conscious decision by the user – such as > adding sort dates or such as deciding that the death source is more > credible than the birth source or vice versa. > > Jerry > > > =================================== > RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS > WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: > http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com <javascript:;> with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- - Bruce http://www.rootsmagic.com =================================== RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message