I am a relatively new convert from another genealogy program. I have been converting my general notes into events, adding sources, and making comments about the sources. When I print out the Research Report (Research Report>Research Notes), I do not see any of the events that are "shared". Is this correct? Should I stop "sharing" events? Can anyone tell me any other reasons not to "share" events? Thank you. Lisa Gorrell Martinez, CA

Just my take on where the source number should show: I do sometimes put something in the notes that doesn't come from a specific source - especially personal knowledge. I look at the setup more as: - the "fact" is the actual event and what I'm sourcing - the "note" is just additional information I've found about that fact However, even more than that, I sometimes have 2 or 3 sources listed for one fact. For instance, for some men who lived between about 1880 and 1950 I have a birth certificate, death certificate, and 1 or 2 draft registrations that all list some of the birth information. I may have found a draft registration first, then eventually from that information found the death or birth certificates. Part of the note may come from one of these sources and part of it from another one of the sources - all the sources don't necessarily include the full place of birth or even a birthplace at all. So in that case putting the source at the end of the note isn't really quite right as not all of the information comes from all 3 or 4 sources. By putting the source number with the fact statement, I am saying that this information - either in full or in part - was derived from these multiple sources. Cheri Zuber http://freepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~zuber/ -----Original Message----- From: rootsmagic-users-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:rootsmagic-users-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Parker Wayne Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 8:14 AM To: rootsmagic-users@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [RMagic] Placement of citation ref and event/fact notes Hi Tom, Tom Holden wrote on 6/3/2012 4:43 PM: > I tested my workaround for placement of citation references within the body > of a note and it works, ... Thanks for spending so much time checking out this workaround. There may be instances where it will be very useful. > Tom Holden wrote on May 31, 2012 4:22 PM: > > It would seem to be a not-too-difficult programming task to revise RM to > print the foot/endnotes numbers at the end of the event/fact sentence + > note. The absence of a note would place them at the end of the sentence. I > wonder if this would satisfy most people or whether it would result in a hue > and cry that the citations that support the fact sentence are now too far > removed. These statements made me wonder if most users enter data in the "notes" field from a source other than the source from which the place, date, and descriptions also came. I realize this is one of the things that makes software development so difficult--users "use" things differently. And everyone wants it to work their way. The software I used before always printed citation references at the end of a sentence (unless the user manually embedded the notes in a way similar to that described in your message). The sentence could include all of the fields in the event including the "notes." Data I entered as "notes" come from the same source that supplied most of the other information for the event such as place, date, and "description." When I have additional information from a different source I usually entered a new event/fact with the information from that second source. Unless and until I get software that does let me tie each item of information to a separate citation, the two data entry methods I had considered are 1) separate events so I get separate sentences and citation references, or 2) enter all the information in one event, attach multiple sources, and add notes indicating which item of information came from which source. Maybe most other users have done this in a different way. Maybe I would have done this differently if I had used RM from the beginning instead of coming to it from another program. > The ideal, of course, is to be able to place these superscript numbers > wherever they are most needed or relevant, I.e., at the end of ( if not > within) the fact sentence, and anywhere we want within the body of the note. I've only heard of one genealogy software package that claims to handle citation references that can be attached to any piece of data so that the citation prints in the proper location in the sentence. I never tested it myself, but have been told it really works. I can see where it could require some complex programming to handle different situations, especially if it wasn't an integral part of the initial database design. Thanks to everyone who has made suggestions. It is good to know I am not the only one who would like to be able to include "notes" before the citation reference for a sentence. That is a condition I can live with until we can connect individual data items within an event to separate citation references. <smile> Regards, Debbie Debbie Parker Wayne, CG(sm) -- Wayne Research <http://debbiewayne.com/> -- Deb's Delvings Blog <http://debsdelvings.blogspot.com/> CG and Certified Genealogist are service marks of the Board for Certification of GenealogistsR, used under license by board certificants after periodic evaluation. =================================== RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ted, I had considered that, but that would not be using the tools available to us to arrive at a better result, IMHO. Also, to do so would remove the Place detail from the place name reports along with other place details, so would also skew report printouts. Thanks for the reply. David E. Cann decann@infionline.net or on Skype at "david.e.cann" -----Original Message----- From: rootsmagic-users-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:rootsmagic-users-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ted Meikle Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 2:02 PM To: rootsmagic-users@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [RMagic] Customizing individual sentence structure If it is truly a sentence that will be used for only one unique entry, forget the template and just type your sentence in. <snip>

Tom, Than did the trick. I really appreciate the help. I'm a long-time user and have used (and modified edited) Bruce's sentence templates before, but this is one that has really hidden itself from me until now. Just for the record, I find very little need to modify the default sentences at all, but in this particular case it just sounds more grammatically correct with the "the" in there in some cases. Thank you again. David E. Cann decann@infionline.net or on Skype at "david.e.cann" -----Original Message----- From: rootsmagic-users-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:rootsmagic-users-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tom Holden Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 1:52 PM To: rootsmagic-users@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [RMagic] Customizing individual sentence structure Presumably, your sentence template has something like this phrase in it: "...[PlaceDetail]...". Simply add "the" immediately ahead of the variable and affix the modifier that will suppress the default preposition "in": "... the [PlaceDetail:Plain]...". Or something like it... Tom <snip>

Presumably, your sentence template has something like this phrase in it: "...[PlaceDetail]...". Simply add "the" immediately ahead of the variable and affix the modifier that will suppress the default preposition "in": "... the [PlaceDetail:Plain]...". Or something like it... Tom On 2012-06-04, at 1:09 PM, "David E. Cann" <decann@infionline.net> wrote: > I love the overall sentence structure the RootsMagician has given us, > especially the ability to customize it in the rare instance that I feel a > need to do so. However, that said I have been wrestling for weeks now > trying to figure out how to make a specific customized edit to an individual > entry (NOT the default template) and I hereby give up :-( and ask for > directions on how to do it. I have always figured out the others in the > past with enough experimentation, but this one has escaped me. > > Again, this is for a single entry sentence and not the default template, but > consider the following entry in an individual Place detail field: > > Ashland Times-Gazette > > This is a newspaper, and when inserted correctly will read "Ashland > Times-Gazette, Ashland, Ashland County, Ohio." I am trying to figure out > how to modify the individual sentence structure to add "the" so that it more > correctly will read "the Ashland Times-Gazette. . . ." but I cannot find the > right combination of tweaks and edits in the individual sentence structure > to make that happen. With some effort over time, I've gotten several other > similar customized sentences done, but this particular one has frustrated > me. Where do I insert the "the" to make this sound better in the sentence? > What do I modify for the individual sentence "Description" to do it? > > I am going back now and try it again, but if someone out there can help me > I'd be very grateful. I realize I can simply enter the Place detail as "the > Ashland Times-Gazette," but doing that also alters the correct alphabetical > order of other place details in the same city, so that is not an option I > really want to use if I can customize the individual sentence structure. > > > David E. Cann > decann@infionline.net > or on Skype at "david.e.cann" > > > > > > > =================================== > RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS > WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

A bug or problem with RM reports having footnotes including Detail Text (Research Notes) is when the length of the footnotes adds up to more than the available space on the page; pagination can go awry or RM might freeze. At least that was the case with earlier versions and I'm unaware that it has been fixed. Nor do I think that including them in footnotes or endnotes is a viable alternative except in your particular example where you have the same content in both the event note and its source research note. I think the event note can and should be literary with embedded citations while the research note is often in point or tabular form, especially when transcribed. Tom On 2012-06-04, at 11:36 AM, "Genbits" <genbits@charter.net> wrote: > Since the last revision of RM5, the notes that I had in the note field were > really direct citations from the Source and had them duplicated in both > places. Discovered that doing a narrative report now, there is a choice to > print the Detail Text if you check the box > On the right hand side of the 'Sources' settings says Options: check box > =Print research notes with each citation. There are other options like your > comments also. > I experimented with this and works quite well. > > This may answer your answer. > > Nettie's Genbits > Annette DeCourcy Towler > Using RM since FO v 2 days. > > > > =================================== > RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS > WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I love the overall sentence structure the RootsMagician has given us, especially the ability to customize it in the rare instance that I feel a need to do so. However, that said I have been wrestling for weeks now trying to figure out how to make a specific customized edit to an individual entry (NOT the default template) and I hereby give up :-( and ask for directions on how to do it. I have always figured out the others in the past with enough experimentation, but this one has escaped me. Again, this is for a single entry sentence and not the default template, but consider the following entry in an individual Place detail field: Ashland Times-Gazette This is a newspaper, and when inserted correctly will read "Ashland Times-Gazette, Ashland, Ashland County, Ohio." I am trying to figure out how to modify the individual sentence structure to add "the" so that it more correctly will read "the Ashland Times-Gazette. . . ." but I cannot find the right combination of tweaks and edits in the individual sentence structure to make that happen. With some effort over time, I've gotten several other similar customized sentences done, but this particular one has frustrated me. Where do I insert the "the" to make this sound better in the sentence? What do I modify for the individual sentence "Description" to do it? I am going back now and try it again, but if someone out there can help me I'd be very grateful. I realize I can simply enter the Place detail as "the Ashland Times-Gazette," but doing that also alters the correct alphabetical order of other place details in the same city, so that is not an option I really want to use if I can customize the individual sentence structure. David E. Cann decann@infionline.net or on Skype at "david.e.cann"

On 6/4/2012 11:09, David E. Cann wrote: I love the overall sentence structure the RootsMagician has given us, especially the ability to customize it in the rare instance that I feel a need to do so. However, that said I have been wrestling for weeks now trying to figure out how to make a specific customized edit to an individual entry (NOT the default template) and I hereby give up :-( and ask for directions on how to do it. I have always figured out the others in the past with enough experimentation, but this one has escaped me. Again, this is for a single entry sentence and not the default template, but consider the following entry in an individual Place detail field: Ashland Times-Gazette This is a newspaper, and when inserted correctly will read "Ashland Times-Gazette, Ashland, Ashland County, Ohio." I am trying to figure out how to modify the individual sentence structure to add "the" so that it more correctly will read "the Ashland Times-Gazette. . . ." but I cannot find the right combination of tweaks and edits in the individual sentence structure to make that happen. With some effort over time, I've gotten several other similar customized sentences done, but this particular one has frustrated me. Where do I insert the "the" to make this sound better in the sentence? What do I modify for the individual sentence "Description" to do it? I've had fair luck putting the "the" in the place detail field. Did you try "the Ashland Times-Gazette"? My biggest problem has been trying to get rid of some of the words that Roots Magic puts in a sentence. The words ("at" comes to mind) are not in the template.

If it is truly a sentence that will be used for only one unique entry, forget the template and just type your sentence in. On 6/4/2012 11:09 AM, David E. Cann wrote: > I love the overall sentence structure the RootsMagician has given us, > especially the ability to customize it in the rare instance that I feel a > need to do so. However, that said I have been wrestling for weeks now > trying to figure out how to make a specific customized edit to an individual > entry (NOT the default template) and I hereby give up :-( and ask for > directions on how to do it. I have always figured out the others in the > past with enough experimentation, but this one has escaped me. > > Again, this is for a single entry sentence and not the default template, but > consider the following entry in an individual Place detail field: > > Ashland Times-Gazette > > This is a newspaper, and when inserted correctly will read "Ashland > Times-Gazette, Ashland, Ashland County, Ohio." I am trying to figure out > how to modify the individual sentence structure to add "the" so that it more > correctly will read "the Ashland Times-Gazette. . . ." but I cannot find the > right combination of tweaks and edits in the individual sentence structure > to make that happen. With some effort over time, I've gotten several other > similar customized sentences done, but this particular one has frustrated > me. Where do I insert the "the" to make this sound better in the sentence? > What do I modify for the individual sentence "Description" to do it? > > I am going back now and try it again, but if someone out there can help me > I'd be very grateful. I realize I can simply enter the Place detail as "the > Ashland Times-Gazette," but doing that also alters the correct alphabetical > order of other place details in the same city, so that is not an option I > really want to use if I can customize the individual sentence structure. > > > David E. Cann > decann@infionline.net > or on Skype at "david.e.cann" > > > > > > > =================================== > RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS > WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Another remote option is Go To My PC. It is a little pricey ($9.95 per month/$99.00 per year) but it will let you connect to your desktop remotely from anywhere. I use with my iPad and iPhone constantly. I actually subscribed so that I could access RM remotely. Of course, I am looking forward to the mobile version of RM which is supposed to be released some time during 2012. I am hoping that we will hear more about it soon. Ron Bernier Woonsocket, RI On Monday, June 4, 2012, Tom Holden wrote: > There is no mobile app that works directly with a RootsMagic database. The > RootsMagic Blog has it as a resolution for 2012: > http://blog.rootsmagic.com/?p=1197 . > > Interchange between RM and 3rd party software via GEDCOM is fraught with > pitfalls due to: > a) different degrees of support for standard GEDCOM > b) different interpretations of the GEDCOM "standard" > c) RM features that use custom extensions of GEDCOM not recognized by > others > So the best use of current mobile genealogy apps is to gather information > that is then imported to RM; avoid the other direction, especially > bidirectional. Otherwise, avoid using RM specific features for highest > compatibility. > > Lacking any mobile app to work directly on your RM database, you might > consider remote desktop apps with which you remotely control your RM > computer. However, I think you would not want to go any smaller than the > iPad screen size on which it is difficult enough to accurately and reliably > touch some of the RM controls. I have been playing a tad with Splashtop > and, > even with a stylus, it can be rather hit or miss rather than touch and go. > And I have yet to succeed more than once over the Internet (perhaps my > recent setting of port forwarding in my router will open the needed tunnel > - > yet to be tested). > > Tom > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlie Hoffpauir > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 10:17 AM > To: RootsMagic > Subject: [RMagic] RM and an Android device > > I'd like recommendations from people using an Android Device (Smart > Phone or Tablet) in conjunction with their RM data... I've done a > preliminary search and it seems there are several programs that will use > a GEDCOM, but I found none that would read RM data directly. I've had > "mixed" results using GEDCOM data from RM with 3rd party software.... > problems include losing some data, and getting alternate names instead > of the primary name. > > .... So, rather than repeat the same process again in trying out > software, I'd like to hear of positive experiences from RM users. Feel > free to email me directly if you think it isn't appropriate for the > list, my address is CRHoffpauir@gmail.com <javascript:;> > > And if you know of an iPad app that works directly with RM data, I'd > like to hear about that, since it would make me seriously consider an > iPad instead. > > TIA > > > =================================== > RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS > WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: > http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com <javascript:;> with the word > 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > =================================== > RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS > WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: > http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com <javascript:;> with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Ron Bernier Woonsocket, RI

There is no mobile app that works directly with a RootsMagic database. The RootsMagic Blog has it as a resolution for 2012: http://blog.rootsmagic.com/?p=1197 . Interchange between RM and 3rd party software via GEDCOM is fraught with pitfalls due to: a) different degrees of support for standard GEDCOM b) different interpretations of the GEDCOM "standard" c) RM features that use custom extensions of GEDCOM not recognized by others So the best use of current mobile genealogy apps is to gather information that is then imported to RM; avoid the other direction, especially bidirectional. Otherwise, avoid using RM specific features for highest compatibility. Lacking any mobile app to work directly on your RM database, you might consider remote desktop apps with which you remotely control your RM computer. However, I think you would not want to go any smaller than the iPad screen size on which it is difficult enough to accurately and reliably touch some of the RM controls. I have been playing a tad with Splashtop and, even with a stylus, it can be rather hit or miss rather than touch and go. And I have yet to succeed more than once over the Internet (perhaps my recent setting of port forwarding in my router will open the needed tunnel - yet to be tested). Tom -----Original Message----- From: Charlie Hoffpauir Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 10:17 AM To: RootsMagic Subject: [RMagic] RM and an Android device I'd like recommendations from people using an Android Device (Smart Phone or Tablet) in conjunction with their RM data... I've done a preliminary search and it seems there are several programs that will use a GEDCOM, but I found none that would read RM data directly. I've had "mixed" results using GEDCOM data from RM with 3rd party software.... problems include losing some data, and getting alternate names instead of the primary name. .... So, rather than repeat the same process again in trying out software, I'd like to hear of positive experiences from RM users. Feel free to email me directly if you think it isn't appropriate for the list, my address is CRHoffpauir@gmail.com And if you know of an iPad app that works directly with RM data, I'd like to hear about that, since it would make me seriously consider an iPad instead. TIA =================================== RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Since the last revision of RM5, the notes that I had in the note field were really direct citations from the Source and had them duplicated in both places. Discovered that doing a narrative report now, there is a choice to print the Detail Text if you check the box On the right hand side of the 'Sources' settings says Options: check box =Print research notes with each citation. There are other options like your comments also. I experimented with this and works quite well. This may answer your answer. Nettie's Genbits Annette DeCourcy Towler Using RM since FO v 2 days.

I'd like recommendations from people using an Android Device (Smart Phone or Tablet) in conjunction with their RM data... I've done a preliminary search and it seems there are several programs that will use a GEDCOM, but I found none that would read RM data directly. I've had "mixed" results using GEDCOM data from RM with 3rd party software.... problems include losing some data, and getting alternate names instead of the primary name. .... So, rather than repeat the same process again in trying out software, I'd like to hear of positive experiences from RM users. Feel free to email me directly if you think it isn't appropriate for the list, my address is CRHoffpauir@gmail.com And if you know of an iPad app that works directly with RM data, I'd like to hear about that, since it would make me seriously consider an iPad instead. TIA

Hi Tom, Tom Holden wrote on 6/3/2012 4:43 PM: > I tested my workaround for placement of citation references within the body > of a note and it works, ... Thanks for spending so much time checking out this workaround. There may be instances where it will be very useful. > Tom Holden wrote on May 31, 2012 4:22 PM: > > It would seem to be a not-too-difficult programming task to revise RM to > print the foot/endnotes numbers at the end of the event/fact sentence + > note. The absence of a note would place them at the end of the sentence. I > wonder if this would satisfy most people or whether it would result in a hue > and cry that the citations that support the fact sentence are now too far > removed. These statements made me wonder if most users enter data in the "notes" field from a source other than the source from which the place, date, and descriptions also came. I realize this is one of the things that makes software development so difficult--users "use" things differently. And everyone wants it to work their way. The software I used before always printed citation references at the end of a sentence (unless the user manually embedded the notes in a way similar to that described in your message). The sentence could include all of the fields in the event including the "notes." Data I entered as "notes" come from the same source that supplied most of the other information for the event such as place, date, and "description." When I have additional information from a different source I usually entered a new event/fact with the information from that second source. Unless and until I get software that does let me tie each item of information to a separate citation, the two data entry methods I had considered are 1) separate events so I get separate sentences and citation references, or 2) enter all the information in one event, attach multiple sources, and add notes indicating which item of information came from which source. Maybe most other users have done this in a different way. Maybe I would have done this differently if I had used RM from the beginning instead of coming to it from another program. > The ideal, of course, is to be able to place these superscript numbers > wherever they are most needed or relevant, I.e., at the end of ( if not > within) the fact sentence, and anywhere we want within the body of the note. I've only heard of one genealogy software package that claims to handle citation references that can be attached to any piece of data so that the citation prints in the proper location in the sentence. I never tested it myself, but have been told it really works. I can see where it could require some complex programming to handle different situations, especially if it wasn't an integral part of the initial database design. Thanks to everyone who has made suggestions. It is good to know I am not the only one who would like to be able to include "notes" before the citation reference for a sentence. That is a condition I can live with until we can connect individual data items within an event to separate citation references. <smile> Regards, Debbie Debbie Parker Wayne, CG(sm) -- Wayne Research <http://debbiewayne.com/> -- Deb's Delvings Blog <http://debsdelvings.blogspot.com/> CG and Certified Genealogist are service marks of the Board for Certification of Genealogists®, used under license by board certificants after periodic evaluation.

My more considered response is to request that RM generate real endnotes in RTF compatible with Word, not the fake endnotes V5 does now. A big problem with converting footnotes to endnotes in Word is that there is no consolidation of identical citations as there is when RM makes endnotes; Word just collects the footnotes and relocates them. Tom On 2012-06-03, at 6:28 PM, RootsMagic <rootsmagic@gmail.com> wrote: > Use footnotes, export to Word, then have Word convert the footnotes to endnotes. > > - Bruce > http://www.rootsmagic.com > > > On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 3:43 PM, Tom Holden <ve3meo@gmail.com> wrote: >> (This msg was posted on May 31 but I just discovered that it was merely sent >> to me not to the listserver.) >> >> I tested my workaround for placement of citation references within the body >> of a note and it works, sort of, after discovering a wrinkle with RM's >> endnotes in RTF format: Word 2010 sees them as Bookmarks, not Endnotes, so >> you cannot use its Endnote tools and you cannot, therefore, insert and >> auto-renumber these quasi-endnotes. >> What does work, is to copy or cut and >> paste the RM generated superscript number (a Bookmark hyperlink) and paste >> it where the {cite ...} flag is embedded in the note. What also works is to >> insert a cross-reference to the "endnote" Bookmark (they are named >> "ENDNOTE_#" where # is the RM endnote number); however, you will have to >> edit the number and format to look the same as other superscript numbers. >> >>

I didn't know Word could do that! And it's dead easy, although they really do end up at the end of the document, after the Bibliography and Indexes unless you tell word to place them at the end of "This section", i.e., the section containing the narrative with footnotes where the cursor must be placed. Thanks, Bruce. Tom -----Original Message----- From: RootsMagic Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 6:28 PM To: rootsmagic-users@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [RMagic] Placement of citation ref and event/fact notes Use footnotes, export to Word, then have Word convert the footnotes to endnotes. - Bruce http://www.rootsmagic.com

(This msg was posted on May 31 but I just discovered that it was merely sent to me not to the listserver.) I tested my workaround for placement of citation references within the body of a note and it works, sort of, after discovering a wrinkle with RM's endnotes in RTF format: Word 2010 sees them as Bookmarks, not Endnotes, so you cannot use its Endnote tools and you cannot, therefore, insert and auto-renumber these quasi-endnotes. What does work, is to copy or cut and paste the RM generated superscript number (a Bookmark hyperlink) and paste it where the {cite ...} flag is embedded in the note. What also works is to insert a cross-reference to the "endnote" Bookmark (they are named "ENDNOTE_#" where # is the RM endnote number); however, you will have to edit the number and format to look the same as other superscript numbers. OTOH, RM's footnotes are recognised by Word as Footnotes so all of its Footnote tools come into play and it is easy to insert a formatted footnote reference and even insert footnotes (e.g. "Ibid" and "Op. Cit." types and update the footnote numbers and references. What you do not want RM to do is to combine all citations for a fact into a single end/footnote; untangling them to use individually in the Note will be next to impossible if they are endnotes, and certainly challenging as footnotes. To search and replace all private notes, you use Advanced Search with Wildcards and the search expression is "\{[!\}]@\}" (without the quotes; Word syntax is a little different from what I am used to). Replace is the empty string "". I can see this technique to be worthwhile especially for long notes with multiple sources - the narrative is more precisely tied to the sources. If RM is ever enhanced to support embedded references to sources, having used this technique over the intervening years will facilitate conversion to the new feature as the decisions on placement of cross-references will have already been made and marked, ready to be replaced by whatever new footnote marker code is recognized. Tom -----Original Message----- From: Tom Holden Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 4:22 PM To: rootsmagic-users@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [RMagic] Placement of citation ref and event/fact notes It would seem to be a not-too-difficult programming task to revise RM to print the foot/endnotes numbers at the end of the event/fact sentence + note. The absence of a note would place them at the end of the sentence. I wonder if this would satisfy most people or whether it would result in a hue and cry that the citations that support the fact sentence are now too far removed. The ideal, of course, is to be able to place these superscript numbers wherever they are most needed or relevant, I.e., at the end of ( if not within) the fact sentence, and anywhere we want within the body of the note. Which leads me to another workaround, a variant of Debbie's using similar principles: 1. Continue to add sources to facts as normal, including those related to the notes. 2. In the note, place a private note of the form "{cite sourcenamekey}" wherever a citation reference is wanted. For example, "{cite Census: Canada 1881, Joe Blow}", I.e., sufficient detail to pick out the corresponding citation from the fact's list of sources. 3. Generate narrative report including private notes, save to RTF. 4. Open in Word, search for instances of "{cite" and replace the private note with the foot/endnote reference. 5. Delete all remaining private notes (regular expression something like "\{[^}]+\}" should find them all). 6. Update the Table of Contents and Indexes as page numbering may have changed. I have not tried this procedure - it's merely conceptual. What's attractive besides having the references where we want them is that these special private notes can be suppressed from reports by unchecking one checkbox (Debbie, you could have the same by enclosing your special flag in the curly braces), and the intended location of the citation reference is stored in the note. Nevertheless, the Word operations will be extensive, proportional to the number of such relocated references. Tom

Use footnotes, export to Word, then have Word convert the footnotes to endnotes. - Bruce http://www.rootsmagic.com On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 3:43 PM, Tom Holden <ve3meo@gmail.com> wrote: > (This msg was posted on May 31 but I just discovered that it was merely sent > to me not to the listserver.) > > I tested my workaround for placement of citation references within the body > of a note and it works, sort of, after discovering a wrinkle with RM's > endnotes in RTF format: Word 2010 sees them as Bookmarks, not Endnotes, so > you cannot use its Endnote tools and you cannot, therefore, insert and > auto-renumber these quasi-endnotes. > What does work, is to copy or cut and > paste the RM generated superscript number (a Bookmark hyperlink) and paste > it where the {cite ...} flag is embedded in the note. What also works is to > insert a cross-reference to the "endnote" Bookmark (they are named > "ENDNOTE_#" where # is the RM endnote number); however, you will have to > edit the number and format to look the same as other superscript numbers. > > OTOH, RM's footnotes are recognised by Word as Footnotes so all of its > Footnote tools come into play and it is easy to insert a formatted footnote > reference and even insert footnotes (e.g. "Ibid" and "Op. Cit." types and > update the footnote numbers and references. > > What you do not want RM to do is to combine all citations for a fact into a > single end/footnote; untangling them to use individually in the Note will be > next to impossible if they are endnotes, and certainly challenging as > footnotes. > > To search and replace all private notes, you use Advanced Search with > Wildcards and the search expression is "\{[!\}]@\}" (without the quotes; > Word syntax is a little different from what I am used to). Replace is the > empty string "". > > I can see this technique to be worthwhile especially for long notes with > multiple sources - the narrative is more precisely tied to the sources. > > If RM is ever enhanced to support embedded references to sources, having > used this technique over the intervening years will facilitate conversion to > the new feature as the decisions on placement of cross-references will have > already been made and marked, ready to be replaced by whatever new footnote > marker code is recognized. > > Tom > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Holden > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 4:22 PM > To: rootsmagic-users@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [RMagic] Placement of citation ref and event/fact notes > > It would seem to be a not-too-difficult programming task to revise RM to > print the foot/endnotes numbers at the end of the event/fact sentence + > note. The absence of a note would place them at the end of the sentence. I > wonder if this would satisfy most people or whether it would result in a hue > and cry that the citations that support the fact sentence are now too far > removed. > > The ideal, of course, is to be able to place these superscript numbers > wherever they are most needed or relevant, I.e., at the end of ( if not > within) the fact sentence, and anywhere we want within the body of the note. > Which leads me to another workaround, a variant of Debbie's using similar > principles: > > 1. Continue to add sources to facts as normal, including those related to > the notes. > 2. In the note, place a private note of the form "{cite sourcenamekey}" > wherever a citation reference is wanted. For example, "{cite Census: Canada > 1881, Joe Blow}", I.e., sufficient detail to pick out the corresponding > citation from the fact's list of sources. > 3. Generate narrative report including private notes, save to RTF. > 4. Open in Word, search for instances of "{cite" and replace the private > note with the foot/endnote reference. > 5. Delete all remaining private notes (regular expression something like > "\{[^}]+\}" should find them all). > 6. Update the Table of Contents and Indexes as page numbering may have > changed. > > I have not tried this procedure - it's merely conceptual. What's attractive > besides having the references where we want them is that these special > private notes can be suppressed from reports by unchecking one checkbox > (Debbie, you could have the same by enclosing your special flag in the curly > braces), and the intended location of the citation reference is stored in > the note. Nevertheless, the Word operations will be extensive, proportional > to the number of such relocated references. > > Tom > > > > =================================== > RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS > WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/  BLOG: http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It would seem to be a not-too-difficult programming task to revise RM to print the foot/endnotes numbers at the end of the event/fact sentence + note. The absence of a note would place them at the end of the sentence. I wonder if this would satisfy most people or whether it would result in a hue and cry that the citations that support the fact sentence are now too far removed. The ideal, of course, is to be able to place these superscript numbers wherever they are most needed or relevant, I.e., at the end of ( if not within) the fact sentence, and anywhere we want within the body of the note. Which leads me to another workaround, a variant of Debbie's using similar principles: 1. Continue to add sources to facts as normal, including those related to the notes. 2. In the note, place a private note of the form "{cite sourcenamekey}" wherever a citation reference is wanted. For example, "{cite Census: Canada 1881, Joe Blow}", I.e., sufficient detail to pick out the corresponding citation from the fact's list of sources. 3. Generate narrative report including private notes, save to RTF. 4. Open in Word, search for instances of "{cite" and replace the private note with the foot/endnote reference. 5. Delete all remaining private notes (regular expression something like "\{[^}]+\}" should find them all). 6. Update the Table of Contents and Indexes as page numbering may have changed. I have not tried this procedure - it's merely conceptual. What's attractive besides having the references where we want them is that these special private notes can be suppressed from reports by unchecking one checkbox (Debbie, you could have the same by enclosing your special flag in the curly braces), and the intended location of the citation reference is stored in the note. Nevertheless, the Word operations will be extensive, proportional to the number of such relocated references. Tom

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions. I decided to implement a temporary workaround that can: 1. be easily removed if RM is ever changed to print the note before the citation reference 2. clearly marks the text that must be edited manually in my word processor until a better solution is available and also clearly marks the places where changes are needed in my RM database if I implement one of your suggestions 3. makes the narrative more usable for my personal use in the meantime even if it requires editing before I'd share it with anyone else I decided to add the phrase "Additional information: " at the beginning of each note that is part of an event/fact. I did this by creating a GEDCOM export, using a text editor to add the phrase in the appropriate NOTE locations, and importing the modified GEDCOM back into RM. By adding this phrase to the note itself I should be able to use RM's "search and replace" feature to remove this from all my notes later on. Luckily, I am not planning on publishing a book real soon. I can handle cut-and-paste on a few dozen people in a report if I have to. I'd hate to do it on hundreds of people. And the research tools in RM are more useful to me right now than the narrative output. I love the timeline chronology report, that it includes the person's age at the time of an event, and that I can easily include family members, multiple spouses, and even unrelated people. My old program did not include ages or events for the spouse and parents. I'd merge several timelines for multiple people and have to add the ages manually. This one feature of RM will save me untold amounts of time. Thank you again. Regards, Debbie Debbie Parker Wayne, CG(sm) -- Wayne Research <http://debbiewayne.com/> -- Deb's Delvings Blog <http://debsdelvings.blogspot.com/> CG and Certified Genealogist are service marks of the Board for Certification of Genealogists®, used under license by board certificants after periodic evaluation. Jerry Bryan wrote on 5/29/2012 5:59 PM: >> ... > There's not really a way to do so except for very extensive and manual editing of an RTF file created by RM5. > > I have long had a user defined fact that’s really a dummy fact that doesn’t print out anything but the note. Such a fact reads just fine if there is no source citation, but it reads really funny if there is a source citation because the superscript citation number prints at the beginning of the sentence instead of at the end.