I am playing around with the Publish Online feature in RootsMagic 6. I previewed a website I created, and the picture I used appears at the bottom of the home page. I prefer the picture at the top, under the heading. Could someone please tell me if there is a way to change the placement of the picture? Thanks, Yvonne Scott

To all, I left a genealogy program that controlled most every thing for RM because I was impressed with the option to customize many more items. Yes it is annoying to find that an infant died before birth but I know to set the sort date. Here is one for those of you who would prefer automated structure. My husband's ancestors were involved in pirating and privateering. One had several aka's, died and was buried in more than one place and at several different points in time, under different names. His events continued after he died multiple times. I prefer my freedom to choose. The only way to compromise would be to have a database preference box to tick and it should be auto sort or manual sort. Anything more or in between would complicate what does not need to be complicated. In my opinion, the sort date process is not complicated. Jane

Also with date sort order issues - in the new online website, neither the Family Group Sheet or Individual Details Page displays the "Facts" in date order eg has the death before marriage. The facts have correctly formatted dates and are in the correct order in RM itself, I am using version 6.0.0.3 and have rebuilt the website since version 6.0.0.3 was released. I have tested my website with Waterfox 16(the 64bit version of Firefox) & I.E. 9 with the same results, the website is on my laptop and has not been uploaded to myrootsmagic.com. Has anyone else come across this or am I missing something somewhere. Michael

It has been previously reported and is explained that individual events come first followed by family events, much the same as in narrative reports. That said, changing to a strictly date order has been requested by some. Tom On 2012-12-25, at 12:34 AM, michael <mak@aanet.com.au> wrote: > Also with date sort order issues - in the new online website, neither > the Family Group Sheet or Individual Details Page displays the "Facts" > in date order eg has the death before marriage. > The facts have correctly formatted dates and are in the correct order in > RM itself, I am using version 6.0.0.3 and have rebuilt the website since > version 6.0.0.3 was released. > > I have tested my website with Waterfox 16(the 64bit version of Firefox) > & I.E. 9 with the same results, the website is on my laptop and has not > been uploaded to myrootsmagic.com. > > Has anyone else come across this or am I missing something somewhere. > > Michael > > > =================================== > RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS > WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Merry Xmas day, everyone! Remarkable discussion for a big holiday ;-) My SQLite script works only on selected events having the same date. If memory serves, that may include undated events. It does not address your example, Bruce, of undated birth and death relative to a dated marriage. Perhaps one could address those cases but is it not preferable that the user input, at the least, estimated dates for birth and death? That helps to narrow the results of searches on databases and is almost essential to the analysis of potentially relevant data, e.g., the TimeLine View. I think SortDate is a great feature for controlling the order of facts but it is also underutilized by users and the program could exploit it more than it does. Cheers! Tom On 2012-12-25, at 11:48 AM, RootsMagic <rootsmagic@gmail.com> wrote: > Paul, > > I think I understand how dates and sort dates work ;-) > > What I meant by saying if there is no date (thus no sort date), is > that what is being asked for is for RM to *automatically* put those > events in BMD order. If I enter a birth and death event with no date, > RM does not just make up a sort date (thus no sort date by default). > > So if I entered the events as per my original post (birth and death > with no date... and no sort date, and a marriage with a date), how > does Tom's script handle that? Adding a -# to a sort date that > doesn't exist won't work like it does when there *is* a sort date. > > - Also, if I have a birth and death with no date (and therefor no > automatic sort date), should RM make up sort dates based on the other > events in the person's life to try and make the birth appear before > them and the death to appear after them? > > - Additionally, if it *did* make up sort dates based on other events > in the person's life... how far should it adjust them before (or > after) the existing events? > > - And if it *did* make up sort dates based on other events, and the > user later added an event before the fake birth sort date or after the > fake death sort date, should RM re-adjust the fake sort dates to keep > them in place. > > - And if it *did* make up sort dates, how should those sort dates be > handled when RM needs to show multiple people's events together (like > in a timeline)? > > We have tried in the past to explain the complexities behind this, but > some folks seem to think we are just being lazy or unwilling to listen > to users on this topic. > > - Bruce > http://www.rootsmagic.com > > > On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 9:19 AM, Paul Studly <paulstudly@att.net> wrote: >> A sort date is not the same as an event date. See your book and the event >> entry screen >> >> birth bef 1800 >> married 1800 >> death aft 1800 >> >> Paul A. Studly, Esq. >> Chesterland/Cleveland, OH >> 440-829-9207 Verizon cell >> paulstudly@studly.net >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: RootsMagic <rootsmagic@gmail.com> >> To: "rootsmagic-users@rootsweb.com" <rootsmagic-users@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Tue, December 25, 2012 9:39:05 AM >> Subject: Re: [RMagic] RootsMagic 6 - sorting of birth, death and burial events >> when all occur in the same year >> >> Jerry, >> >> I haven't tried Tom's script, but I see that it puts a -# on the end of the >> sort date. I'm asking the following questions just to get an idea of how >> it handles situations which aren't simply two events with the same date. >> >> How does it handle a birth and death where neither has a date (and >> therefore no sort dates). >> >> How does it handle a situation like this? >> >> Married 1800 >> Born (no date) >> Died (no date) >> >> - Bruce >> >> >> On Tuesday, December 25, 2012, Jerry Bryan wrote: >> >>> Although it is a total crock... what if I have a single birth source >>> with a date of 1900, and a single death source with a date of 1899? >>> >>> Which order should we display this? >>> >>> Born 1900 >>> Died 1899 >>> >>> or >>> >>> Died 1899 >>> Born 1900 >>> >>> Keep in mind that whatever order you choose, someone else will want it >>> the other way. >>> >>> - Bruce >>> http://www.rootsmagic.com >>> >>> >>> Bruce, your point is well taken with this particular example. I’m doubtful >>> that you would get disagreement from very many users that the default order >>> in the case below should be death before birth, and that the user could >>> override the default order by using sort dates: >>> >>> Died 1899 >>> Born 1900 >>> >>> >>> >>> But that’s not the issue at hand. The issue at hand and what has always >>> been the issue is when the dates are the same. When the dates are the same, >>> the following is just wrong. >>> >>> Died 1900 >>> Born 1900 >>> >>> >>> Just to amplify this point further, Tom Holden’s neat little SQLite script >>> to fix obvious event ordering problems will fix the “died 1900, born 1900” >>> case (as well it should), and his script will not fix the “born 1899, died >>> 1900” case (as well it should not). The “born 1899, died 1900” case should >>> only be fixed by some sort of conscious decision by the user – such as >>> adding sort dates or such as deciding that the death source is more >>> credible than the birth source or vice versa. >>> >>> Jerry >>> >>> >>> =================================== >>> RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ >>> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS >>> WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: >>> http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com <javascript:;> with the word >>> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> -- >> - Bruce >> http://www.rootsmagic.com >> >> >> =================================== >> RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS >> WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> =================================== >> RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS >> WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > =================================== > RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS > WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 12/25/2012 11:37 AM, Susan Farmer wrote: > <snip> > Then why not give an *OPTION* for a standard sort order? If you don't > want it, don't turn it on! Clearly, from this conversation thread > (which I do understand is a small percentage of users), MANY more > folks want it than don't! Susan I think that's an incorrect conclusion. A more correct conclusion would be that more of the people dissatisfied with the way RM handles it now would like it differently. The hundreds (maybe thousands) of us who are not dissatisfied are absent from the current discussion. However, I personally have no problem with a switchable option (unless it breaks something else that's working now). -- Charlie Hoffpauir http://my.rootsmagic.com/CRHoffpauir/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~charlieh/ http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=surnames.hoffpauir http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Hoffpauir

On 12/25/2012 11:48 AM, RootsMagic wrote: > Paul, > > I think I understand how dates and sort dates work ;-) > > What I meant by saying if there is no date (thus no sort date), is > that what is being asked for is for RM to *automatically* put those > events in BMD order. If I enter a birth and death event with no date, > RM does not just make up a sort date (thus no sort date by default). > Then why not give an *OPTION* for a standard sort order? If you don't want it, don't turn it on! Clearly, from this conversation thread (which I do understand is a small percentage of users), MANY more folks want it than don't! Susan -- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College Division of Science and Math http://www.abac.edu/sfarmer http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium

Thanks Bruce, I appreciate the ability to manually sort events, and use the feature for various situations, such as when I find someone on two electoral electoral rolls in the one year and I know which addresses they moved from and to. However for basic birth, baptism/christening, death an burial/cremation events, very few people are baptised before they are born and very few are buried before they die. I've watched enough CSI and Bones episodes to know that being buried alive and expiring a day or two later in extreme stress is common in those shows, but very rare in the real world. RM should sort those basic events automatically, with the sort date available as it is for other scenarios. Choosing not to fix that is, in Aussie terms, a "cop out". Regards Ray On 25/12/2012 1:50 AM, RootsMagic wrote: > "Tough noogies" is such harsh language ;-) > > The sort date was designed to allow the user to sort events in any > order they prefer, rather than RM making any assumptions that the user > may not want. > > - Bruce > http://www.rootsmagic.com > > > On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 12:17 AM, Ludlow Bay <ludlow.bay@gmail.com> wrote: >> Yeah, you'd think it would work the way you described. However, the official >> line (paraphrasing) is: "tough noogies - deal with it". >> >> See this forum post for the official wording: >> http://forums.rootsmagic.com/index.php?/topic/11808-rootsmagic-6/#entry53897 >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> /From:/Ray Hayes <rayhayes@bigpond.net.au <mailto:rayhayes@bigpond.net.au>> >>> /Subject:/[RMagic] RootsMagic 6 - sorting of birth,death and burial events >>> when all occur in the same year >>> /Date:/Mon, 24 Dec 2012 17:20:26 +1100 >>> >>> >>> I have a child born, died and buried all in 1896. >>> >>> I would have expected the events to sort Birth, Death, Burial, however >>> they sort in reverse order showing Burial, Death, Birth in the Edit >>> Person window. >>> >>> I can change the sort date for each event, but I don't think that I >>> should have to? >>> >>> I entered the Birth event, then the Death, then the Burial so it is not >>> sorting based on which event was entered first. >>> >>> Any thoughts? >>> >>> Ray >> >> >> =================================== >> RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS >> WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > =================================== > RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS > WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Paul, I think I understand how dates and sort dates work ;-) What I meant by saying if there is no date (thus no sort date), is that what is being asked for is for RM to *automatically* put those events in BMD order. If I enter a birth and death event with no date, RM does not just make up a sort date (thus no sort date by default). So if I entered the events as per my original post (birth and death with no date... and no sort date, and a marriage with a date), how does Tom's script handle that? Adding a -# to a sort date that doesn't exist won't work like it does when there *is* a sort date. - Also, if I have a birth and death with no date (and therefor no automatic sort date), should RM make up sort dates based on the other events in the person's life to try and make the birth appear before them and the death to appear after them? - Additionally, if it *did* make up sort dates based on other events in the person's life... how far should it adjust them before (or after) the existing events? - And if it *did* make up sort dates based on other events, and the user later added an event before the fake birth sort date or after the fake death sort date, should RM re-adjust the fake sort dates to keep them in place. - And if it *did* make up sort dates, how should those sort dates be handled when RM needs to show multiple people's events together (like in a timeline)? We have tried in the past to explain the complexities behind this, but some folks seem to think we are just being lazy or unwilling to listen to users on this topic. - Bruce http://www.rootsmagic.com On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 9:19 AM, Paul Studly <paulstudly@att.net> wrote: > A sort date is not the same as an event date. See your book and the event > entry screen > > birth bef 1800 > married 1800 > death aft 1800 > > Paul A. Studly, Esq. > Chesterland/Cleveland, OH > 440-829-9207 Verizon cell > paulstudly@studly.net > > > > > ________________________________ > From: RootsMagic <rootsmagic@gmail.com> > To: "rootsmagic-users@rootsweb.com" <rootsmagic-users@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tue, December 25, 2012 9:39:05 AM > Subject: Re: [RMagic] RootsMagic 6 - sorting of birth, death and burial events > when all occur in the same year > > Jerry, > > I haven't tried Tom's script, but I see that it puts a -# on the end of the > sort date. I'm asking the following questions just to get an idea of how > it handles situations which aren't simply two events with the same date. > > How does it handle a birth and death where neither has a date (and > therefore no sort dates). > > How does it handle a situation like this? > > Married 1800 > Born (no date) > Died (no date) > > - Bruce > > > On Tuesday, December 25, 2012, Jerry Bryan wrote: > >> Although it is a total crock... what if I have a single birth source >> with a date of 1900, and a single death source with a date of 1899? >> >> Which order should we display this? >> >> Born 1900 >> Died 1899 >> >> or >> >> Died 1899 >> Born 1900 >> >> Keep in mind that whatever order you choose, someone else will want it >> the other way. >> >> - Bruce >> http://www.rootsmagic.com >> >> >> Bruce, your point is well taken with this particular example. I’m doubtful >> that you would get disagreement from very many users that the default order >> in the case below should be death before birth, and that the user could >> override the default order by using sort dates: >> >> Died 1899 >> Born 1900 >> >> >> >> But that’s not the issue at hand. The issue at hand and what has always >> been the issue is when the dates are the same. When the dates are the same, >> the following is just wrong. >> >> Died 1900 >> Born 1900 >> >> >> Just to amplify this point further, Tom Holden’s neat little SQLite script >> to fix obvious event ordering problems will fix the “died 1900, born 1900” >> case (as well it should), and his script will not fix the “born 1899, died >> 1900” case (as well it should not). The “born 1899, died 1900” case should >> only be fixed by some sort of conscious decision by the user – such as >> adding sort dates or such as deciding that the death source is more >> credible than the birth source or vice versa. >> >> Jerry >> >> >> =================================== >> RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS >> WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: >> http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com <javascript:;> with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > -- > - Bruce > http://www.rootsmagic.com > > > =================================== > RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS > WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > =================================== > RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS > WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Do not want to be controversial but I need to use the sort date often. Much more than the illustration of same birth date and death date. Most often is probably marriage without a date and burial without a date and sometimes a twin fact. Using it for birth and death is not much of a problem for me. I have 175,000+ names I have entered manually. From: Jerry Bryan Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 9:08 AM To: rootsmagic-users@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [RMagic] RootsMagic 6 - sorting of birth,death and burial events when all occur in the same year Although it is a total crock... what if I have a single birth source with a date of 1900, and a single death source with a date of 1899? Which order should we display this? Born 1900 Died 1899 or Died 1899 Born 1900 Keep in mind that whatever order you choose, someone else will want it the other way. - Bruce http://www.rootsmagic.com Bruce, your point is well taken with this particular example. I’m doubtful that you would get disagreement from very many users that the default order in the case below should be death before birth, and that the user could override the default order by using sort dates: Died 1899 Born 1900 But that’s not the issue at hand. The issue at hand and what has always been the issue is when the dates are the same. When the dates are the same, the following is just wrong. Died 1900 Born 1900 Just to amplify this point further, Tom Holden’s neat little SQLite script to fix obvious event ordering problems will fix the “died 1900, born 1900” case (as well it should), and his script will not fix the “born 1899, died 1900” case (as well it should not). The “born 1899, died 1900” case should only be fixed by some sort of conscious decision by the user – such as adding sort dates or such as deciding that the death source is more credible than the birth source or vice versa. Jerry =================================== RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/5983 - Release Date: 12/24/12

Although it is a total crock... what if I have a single birth source with a date of 1900, and a single death source with a date of 1899? Which order should we display this? Born 1900 Died 1899 or Died 1899 Born 1900 Keep in mind that whatever order you choose, someone else will want it the other way. - Bruce http://www.rootsmagic.com Bruce, your point is well taken with this particular example. I’m doubtful that you would get disagreement from very many users that the default order in the case below should be death before birth, and that the user could override the default order by using sort dates: Died 1899 Born 1900 But that’s not the issue at hand. The issue at hand and what has always been the issue is when the dates are the same. When the dates are the same, the following is just wrong. Died 1900 Born 1900 Just to amplify this point further, Tom Holden’s neat little SQLite script to fix obvious event ordering problems will fix the “died 1900, born 1900” case (as well it should), and his script will not fix the “born 1899, died 1900” case (as well it should not). The “born 1899, died 1900” case should only be fixed by some sort of conscious decision by the user – such as adding sort dates or such as deciding that the death source is more credible than the birth source or vice versa. Jerry

So my question stands... what is the definition of "naturally", "logically", "organically" for the example below? I'm pointing out that no two users are exactly the same, and when one group of users says a feature to work "like this", there is another group that wants it to work "like that". In this thread, we had at least one person say they would want the birth before the death regardless of the date, while others have said they would want it sorted by date. As a software company, we have to be able to try and support all users, not just one group of users. That is why we implemented the sort date, so users can sort it the way they want. Now the other situation, where multiple events have the same date, that is a different story, and I have asked Jerry for some clarification as to how that might be handled outside the simple death and burial have the same date type of scenario. - Bruce http://www.rootsmagic.com On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 9:04 PM, Ludlow Bay <ludlow.bay@gmail.com> wrote: > You are unnecessarily muddling the issue, Bruce. > > When the primary life event facts share an exact-same-date, whatever value is in > the fact date field is irrelevant. We want those FACTS to be sorted naturally - > logically - organically - whatever you want to call it. > > >> /From:/RootsMagic <rootsmagic@gmail.com <mailto:rootsmagic@gmail.com>> >> /Subject:/Re: [RMagic] RootsMagic 6 - sorting of birth,death and burial events >> when all occur in the same year >> /Date:/Mon, 24 Dec 2012 20:40:34 -0700 >> /References:/<50D8016C.3060509@gmail.com><CA++G+pbkLm1Z4rtQ705_aQF1ocPNpwDR+zvAe1hCDeFCEe788A@mail.gmail.com><50D91CA9.4020904@goldsword.com> >> /In-Reply-To:/<50D91CA9.4020904@goldsword.com> >> >> >> Although it is a total crock... what if I have a single birth source >> with a date of 1900, and a single death source with a date of 1899? >> >> Which order should we display this? >> >> Born 1900 >> Died 1899 >> >> or >> >> Died 1899 >> Born 1900 >> >> Keep in mind that whatever order you choose, someone else will want it >> the other way. >> >> - Bruce >> http://www.rootsmagic.com <http://www.rootsmagic.com/> > > > > =================================== > RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS > WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There is nothing natural or logical about "Born 1900 - Died 1899". Program for the masses (and we have spoken) - and let the rare person with those quirky dates use Sort Dates :-) > > /From:/RootsMagic <rootsmagic@gmail.com <mailto:rootsmagic@gmail.com>> > /Subject:/Re: [RMagic] RootsMagic 6 - sorting of birth,death and burial events > when all occur in the same year > /Date:/Tue, 25 Dec 2012 09:08:29 -0700 > > So my question stands... what is the definition of "naturally", > "logically", "organically" for the example below? I'm pointing out > that no two users are exactly the same, and when one group of users > says a feature to work "like this", there is another group that wants > it to work "like that". In this thread, we had at least one person > say they would want the birth before the death regardless of the date, > while others have said they would want it sorted by date. As a > software company, we have to be able to try and support all users, not > just one group of users. That is why we implemented the sort date, so > users can sort it the way they want. > > Now the other situation, where multiple events have the same date, > that is a different story, and I have asked Jerry for some > clarification as to how that might be handled outside the simple death > and burial have the same date type of scenario. > > - Bruce > http://www.rootsmagic.com <http://www.rootsmagic.com/>

A sort date is not the same as an event date. See your book and the event entry screen birth bef 1800 married 1800 death aft 1800 Paul A. Studly, Esq. Chesterland/Cleveland, OH 440-829-9207 Verizon cell paulstudly@studly.net ________________________________ From: RootsMagic <rootsmagic@gmail.com> To: "rootsmagic-users@rootsweb.com" <rootsmagic-users@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tue, December 25, 2012 9:39:05 AM Subject: Re: [RMagic] RootsMagic 6 - sorting of birth, death and burial events when all occur in the same year Jerry, I haven't tried Tom's script, but I see that it puts a -# on the end of the sort date. I'm asking the following questions just to get an idea of how it handles situations which aren't simply two events with the same date. How does it handle a birth and death where neither has a date (and therefore no sort dates). How does it handle a situation like this? Married 1800 Born (no date) Died (no date) - Bruce On Tuesday, December 25, 2012, Jerry Bryan wrote: > Although it is a total crock... what if I have a single birth source > with a date of 1900, and a single death source with a date of 1899? > > Which order should we display this? > > Born 1900 > Died 1899 > > or > > Died 1899 > Born 1900 > > Keep in mind that whatever order you choose, someone else will want it > the other way. > > - Bruce > http://www.rootsmagic.com > > > Bruce, your point is well taken with this particular example. I’m doubtful > that you would get disagreement from very many users that the default order > in the case below should be death before birth, and that the user could > override the default order by using sort dates: > > Died 1899 > Born 1900 > > > > But that’s not the issue at hand. The issue at hand and what has always > been the issue is when the dates are the same. When the dates are the same, > the following is just wrong. > > Died 1900 > Born 1900 > > > Just to amplify this point further, Tom Holden’s neat little SQLite script > to fix obvious event ordering problems will fix the “died 1900, born 1900” > case (as well it should), and his script will not fix the “born 1899, died > 1900” case (as well it should not). The “born 1899, died 1900” case should > only be fixed by some sort of conscious decision by the user – such as > adding sort dates or such as deciding that the death source is more > credible than the birth source or vice versa. > > Jerry > > > =================================== > RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS > WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: > http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com <javascript:;> with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- - Bruce http://www.rootsmagic.com =================================== RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Jerry, I haven't tried Tom's script, but I see that it puts a -# on the end of the sort date. I'm asking the following questions just to get an idea of how it handles situations which aren't simply two events with the same date. How does it handle a birth and death where neither has a date (and therefore no sort dates). How does it handle a situation like this? Married 1800 Born (no date) Died (no date) - Bruce On Tuesday, December 25, 2012, Jerry Bryan wrote: > Although it is a total crock... what if I have a single birth source > with a date of 1900, and a single death source with a date of 1899? > > Which order should we display this? > > Born 1900 > Died 1899 > > or > > Died 1899 > Born 1900 > > Keep in mind that whatever order you choose, someone else will want it > the other way. > > - Bruce > http://www.rootsmagic.com > > > Bruce, your point is well taken with this particular example. I’m doubtful > that you would get disagreement from very many users that the default order > in the case below should be death before birth, and that the user could > override the default order by using sort dates: > > Died 1899 > Born 1900 > > > > But that’s not the issue at hand. The issue at hand and what has always > been the issue is when the dates are the same. When the dates are the same, > the following is just wrong. > > Died 1900 > Born 1900 > > > Just to amplify this point further, Tom Holden’s neat little SQLite script > to fix obvious event ordering problems will fix the “died 1900, born 1900” > case (as well it should), and his script will not fix the “born 1899, died > 1900” case (as well it should not). The “born 1899, died 1900” case should > only be fixed by some sort of conscious decision by the user – such as > adding sort dates or such as deciding that the death source is more > credible than the birth source or vice versa. > > Jerry > > > =================================== > RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS > WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: > http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com <javascript:;> with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- - Bruce http://www.rootsmagic.com

The way it is done now helps catch typo errors quickly. Otherwise, they might stay until someone else catches them. Merry Christmas. J. Davis From: Susan Farmer Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 10:25 PM To: rootsmagic-users@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [RMagic] RootsMagic 6 - sorting of birth, death and burial events when all occur in the same year On 12/24/2012 9:50 AM, RootsMagic wrote: > "Tough noogies" is such harsh language ;-) > > The sort date was designed to allow the user to sort events in any > order they prefer, rather than RM making any assumptions that the user > may not want. > Darlin' while I appreciate everything that you and the RootsMagic development team do for us, and your willingness to participate in this forum, that's a crock and you know it. Who, in their right mind wants to bury somebody, then -- oh, lets have them born! Then they might die and after that the christening! There are indeed some facts that I might want to sort differently than you, but "born, christened, died and buried" ain't them~! Susan -- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College Division of Science and Math http://www.abac.edu/sfarmer http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium =================================== RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/5983 - Release Date: 12/24/12

I would say that date order would rule and draws the eye to the obvious disorder. And that is the problem with the unnatural order that RM often displays or reports when birth and death are on the same date, whether that is a day-specific date or just a year- there is no reason for there to be a disorder. So let's focus on the same date event disorder and seek to resolve that. It seems pretty simple to me - just use the date offsets supported by SortDate for events such as Birth, Christening, Baptism, Death, Cremation and Burial. That is Date-x where x=10,20,30,40...respectively. Is there any reason that SortDate cannot encode an offset date for these probable same date events.? Tom On 2012-12-24, at 10:40 PM, RootsMagic <rootsmagic@gmail.com> wrote: > Although it is a total crock... what if I have a single birth source > with a date of 1900, and a single death source with a date of 1899? > > Which order should we display this? > > Born 1900 > Died 1899 > > or > > Died 1899 > Born 1900 > > Keep in mind that whatever order you choose, someone else will want it > the other way. > > - Bruce > http://www.rootsmagic.com > > > On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 8:25 PM, Susan Farmer <sfarmer@goldsword.com> wrote: >> On 12/24/2012 9:50 AM, RootsMagic wrote: >>> "Tough noogies" is such harsh language ;-) >>> >>> The sort date was designed to allow the user to sort events in any >>> order they prefer, rather than RM making any assumptions that the user >>> may not want. >> >> Darlin' while I appreciate everything that you and the RootsMagic >> development team do for us, and your willingness to participate in this >> forum, that's a crock and you know it. >> >> Who, in their right mind wants to bury somebody, then -- oh, lets have >> them born! Then they might die and after that the christening! >> >> There are indeed some facts that I might want to sort differently than >> you, but "born, christened, died and buried" ain't them~! >> >> Susan >> -- >> Susan Farmer >> sfarmer@goldsword.com >> Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College >> Division of Science and Math >> http://www.abac.edu/sfarmer >> http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium >> >> >> =================================== >> RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS >> WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > =================================== > RM list Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=ROOTSMAGIC-USERS > WISH LIST: http://www.rootsmagic.com/forums/ BLOG: http://blog.rootsmagic.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTSMAGIC-USERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I'm with Bruce. A reputable genealogy program does not makes assumptions - no matter how obvious it might seem. I would not use one that did. Virginia

On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Susan Farmer <sfarmer@goldsword.com> wrote: > How can you die before you're born? A baby is born in the early morning of January 1, 1900, on the Russian island of Big Diomede. The mother and newborn are taken by boat across the International Date Line to Little Diomede Island, where the newborn passes away on December 31, 1899. So the baby died before it was born. Drew Smith

On 12/24/2012 10:40 PM, RootsMagic wrote: > Although it is a total crock... what if I have a single birth source > with a date of 1900, and a single death source with a date of 1899? > > Which order should we display this? > > Born 1900 > Died 1899 > > or > > Died 1899 > Born 1900 > > Keep in mind that whatever order you choose, someone else will want it > the other way. > How can you die before you're born? You put them in chronological *life* order. It's not that difficult to give these events a default order -- that is then changeable by the user! (and I say that as a Computer Programmer) Susan -- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College Division of Science and Math http://www.abac.edu/sfarmer http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium