True...and it should also be remembered that while usually accurate...Y haplogroups determined by normal Y tests use STRs to find the haplogroup. BUT haplogroups are actually determined by SNPs, not STRs. To be absolutely certain you have the right Y Haplogroup I feel the SNP testing is more reliable. I've seen Y Haplogroups from normal Y tests (using STRs) fail when SNP testing is done. Joan In a message dated 5/19/2012 3:00:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jcarrgensearch@earthlink.net writes: When discussing matching YDNA matches haplotypes between two different men, the number of markers being discussed is very important. Matches at the 12 marker level are very common and only indicate possible ancient paternal line shared ancestry, much earlier than the use of surnames.