To Jone and Gary, Yes, I have used that website, and went thru some of the other sites and even google too, but no real luck, I have found them on the 1860 census, but none earlier.. I was hoping to find information on the familysearch site, since it has Holland records. I do not have a subscription to Ancestry, so that is on the last place left to check, if they have more than the unusual information. Thank you for helping :-) CJRaben