Dee First Y-DNA one part of the sex chromosome pair. Yes is passed by the father to son as it is what creates a male - females do not have it. FamilyTreeDNA Company has many different Y-DNA tests. THe marker tested for Y-DNA use for current genealogy is the STR marker (by current I mean 1 day to 2000/3/4000 years). This type of testing tests a paticular area of the Y chromosome and the test are 12 markers, 25 markers, 37 markers, 44 markers (ancestry.com) 67 markers, 111 markers, walk the Y (a particular type of test) and full genome testing. The MTDNA is NOT part of the 23 pairs of chromosomes, it is inside of the cell but not in the nuceulas as the 23 pairs are. MTDNA only has 17500 base pairs. there are three types of tests. HRV1, HRV2, coding zone. if you don't test the entire chromosome your missing a lot of data. Now on Barton's comment.. MTDNA testing if you do the full test (expensive) is 100% accurate. The problem with testing MTDNA is that it tests the SNP marker this marker is steady (Few mutations for many many generations, thousands of years) so that you will be related to many many be even hundreds of people.. the bigest problem is female's change their maiden names to the males surname.. hard to follow but not impossible. I sugest that if you tested at FTDNA you try to contact the administrator of the MTDNA haplogroup your part of for advise. AGAIN... I sugest that you read my website.... GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us nelda Nelda L. Percival, Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp, Bonstein and Gillock My Genealogy - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ GilpinGenetics: http://www.gilpingenetics.us/ Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg > From: dee.ziegler@gmail.com > Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 22:12:43 -0400 > To: roots-l@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ROOTS-L] Autosomal DNA? > > Can anyone tell me -- as DNA testing is further developed, will the > samples already taken be capable of upgrading? My male cousin's Y-DNA > and my own mtDNA are my concern. THANKS for this enlightening > discussion. Dee in Maryland > ====

I don't know about mtDNA, but FTDNA will allow you to upgrade your Y-test for the difference in price to the higher test. Barton On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 7:12 PM, Dee Ziegler wrote: > Can anyone tell me -- as DNA testing is further developed, will the > samples already taken be capable of upgrading? My male cousin's Y-DNA > and my own mtDNA are my concern. THANKS for this enlightening > discussion. Dee in Maryland > ==== > > On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 9:03 PM, BARTON LEWIS > <bartonlewis@optonline.net> wrote: >> To elaborate on Joan's helpful DNA primer ... autosomal DNA tests DNA >> shared on the 22 chromosomes that don't determine sex.  The >> sex-determining chromosome (either no. 22 or 23, can't remember which >> right now) is only helpful for males, since it tests their Y >> chromosome. >> mtDNA exists in the membrane around the nucleus, and is passed down >> from >> a woman to all her children.  It is not passed down by a man to his >> children.  Therefore, either a man or woman can test their mtDNA but >> it >> will only identify the female lineage.  And the resolution is not >> good >> at that -- at best (I believe) only giving a 50% probability that you >> are related to a match. >> >> I have had both my mom and dad test their autosomal DNA.  Here is an >> one >> example of how it has been useful to me:  my great grandmother was >> born >> out of wedlock and we were told her father was unknown.  Then in 2008 >> a >> distant cousin called and said he knew the man's name.  I tracked >> down >> the granddaughter of this man's sister and she agreed to test.  She >> and >> my dad would be second cousins if the story was true.  But it was >> not. >> They did not match.  The more closely related you are to someone, the >> more autosomal DNA you share.  Second cousins should almost >> definitely >> be a match.  FTDNA tells you that it will only make matches back to >> about 5th cousins, and that there is a slim chance of such a match, >> but >> it's not true.  Paper trails confirm both my parents' matches with >> quite >> a number of 3rd, 4th, 5th, and even 6th cousins.  Other matches we >> don't >> know our relation to could very well be further back than that. >>  Since >> you apparently have a number of distant cousins who have tested, that >> increases your chances of making a match.  I recommend testing.  Even >> if >> you don't match with this family, you are bound to get other matches >> that could prove new connections. >> >> Barton Lewis >> >> >> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 2:48 PM, Kirsten Bowman wrote: >> >>> I have a fair understanding of the use of yDNA in genealogy but the >>> blurbs I've read about autosomal DNA don't give a clue to whether >>> that >>> test would help solve a longstanding brick wall in my maternal line, >>> which is as follows . . . >>> >>> My 3rd great-grandfather was born in 1788 in a sparsely-populated >>> region of Canada.  I suspect he was the son of one of 7 brothers who >>> settled in the area in the early 1780s.  Roughly a dozen direct male >>> descendants of those 7 brothers have done yDNA tests through FTDNA. >>> Some have tested up to 67 markers and one has done the FTDNA Family >>> Finder test.  My own line daughtered-out with my 2nd >>> great-grandfather >>> and I’m unable to locate any direct male cousins for yDNA testing. >>> >>> Now I'm wondering whether an autosomal DNA test would tell whether >>> I'm >>> related to any of the fellows who have already tested, or would an >>> autosomal test of a female descendant of one of those 7 brothers >>> show >>> a relationship to me?  Would the $99 test from Ancestry.com do the >>> trick, or is the $289 Family Finder test from FTDNA necessary?  I >>> realize that no testing could tell *which* of the 7 brothers was the >>> parent of my 3rd great-grandfather; I'm simply wondering if I can >>> narrow him down to a certain clan. >>> Can anyone answer those questions or direct me to a site that gives >>> a >>> thorough explanation of what autosomal DNA testing will do? ===== >>> If you would prefer digest mode to mail mode, drop a note to >>> roots-admin@rootsweb.com and ask for the digest... >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> ===== >> If you would prefer digest mode to mail mode, drop a note to >> roots-admin@rootsweb.com and ask for the digest... >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ===== > If you would prefer digest mode to mail mode, drop a note to > roots-admin@rootsweb.com and ask for the digest... > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dave: Oh, thank you! Now we're getting somewhere. So if I'm interpreting correctly, you're saying that two (or more) parties must have autosomal tests and that there's no possibility for matching my autosomal or mtDNA test with existing yDNA results to find a common ancestor who is neither direct paternal nor direct maternal. Further, I'm understanding that the more generations between test candidates and the common ancestor, the slimmer the chances of a match from autosomal testing. And that with autosomal testing a non-match is not necessarily proof of no common ancestor. Is all of that correct? Since I would probably have to pay both sides of FTDNA's $289 (or wait for the sale), and in view of the distance to the possible common ancestor, it sounds like a fairly expensive shot in the dark. I'm not terribly interested in identifying my general ethnicity (that's already pretty well established), and I'm not heavily involved in tracing lines other than this particular one. Unfortunately the member of our surname project who has already done the Family Finder test is a half-sibling and connects to the main tree even a couple of generations above me, so I'd guess that that makes a match even more unlikely. Altogether it seems I'd be better off spending my money in hiring a researcher in Canada to try and turn up a lead that I may have missed in my 12 years of searching. Do you disagree? Again, thanks so much for writing. Kirsten -----Original Message----- From: Dave Michaelson Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 9:11 PM To: viking@rvi.net ; Roots-L@rootsweb.com ; gale_gorman@me.com Subject: Autosomal testing Kristin, Several of the answers given concerning DNA testing for Genealogical purposes were quite good but the did not clearly answer your question. Your answer is possibly, if you choose the right test. Y-DNA (of the strict father-father-father... etc line) and MT-DNA (for the STRICT mother-mother-mother... etc line) will tell you if you have a match IF the person you want to match is a member of the above strict lines (the edges on a ancestry chart ONLY). The autosomal tests are for all the other lines. In other words the Y-DNA and MT-DNA ONLY test two lines in your ancestry chart and are pretty much useless for identifying specific individuals. What those two tests are good for is giving you your haplogroup and telling where your ancestors came from 30,000 or so years ago. In other words, beyond 20 generations AT LEAST! The chances of you finding a specific individual randomly that falls on the two lines given above are VERY SLIM. The autosomal testing is not at all like that. It tests ALL lines in the family tree back about 5 to 7 generations quite accurately. Beyond that, the autosomal clues are pretty much diluted out as far as identifying specific families or individuals that are related to you... but all lines are tested. If you want to identify if a family is related to you AND THEY HAVE BEEN TESTED, or their DNA is available to test, then the autosomal tests will probably give you much more information than the Y-DNA or mitochondrial DNA testing. As far as Autosomal testing - Family Tree DNA is the largest in the world and provides one of the best testing services. Ancestry.com is just starting out and I know little about their testing but the general rule of thumb is that you get what you pay for. It is your choice though but unless there is a large enough database to compare against, it is useless for you to go looking for a match... if you know what I mean. FTDNA does have the Family Finder on sale from time to time for $199 or is you are a member of a surname group or other recognized group, you could get a special offer. You can go to ftdna.com and check all this out - they are very open about letting people browse to learn about DNA testing and what is available and what it will do you you. Check it out, what do you have to loose? And also MT-DNA is NOT found in the nuclear wall or membrane, it is found in all cell cytoplasm within the cell in structures called mitochondria - thus the name MT-DNA. Hope this helps and if you have further questions, you can email me direct if you wish. Dave Michaelson P.S. Gale, Y-DNA testing will not give you the information you are looking for - neither will MT-DNA testing. These test only test two SPECIFIC lines as I mentioned above. Autosomal testing will test the other lines but will only help you if both parties have been tested (or the situation in the next paragraph exists) which is true for all DNA testing. ALL these tests are useless for identifying people whose DNA is not available. What the autosomal testing is good for is to test people alive today that have provided their DNA and been tested and compare their DNA to yours. In that way, using information from both (yours and theirs) trees, you could possibly get the data you need. The more people that match you, the easier it is to narrow your search and identify specific individuals and/or families. Again, I hope this helps. Dave ==================================== In you email, you wrote - "Kirsten Bowman" <viking@rvi.net> Subject: [ROOTS-L] Autosomal DNA? I have a fair understanding of the use of yDNA in genealogy but the blurbs I ve read about autosomal DNA don't give a clue to whether that test would help solve a longstanding brick wall in my maternal linewhich is as follows . . My 3rd great-grandfather was born in 1788 in a sparsely-populated region of Canada. I suspect he was the son of one of 7 brothers who settled in the area in the early 1780s. Roughly a dozen direct male descendants of those 7 brothers have done yDNA tests through FTDNA. Some have tested up to 67 markers and one has done the FTDNA Family Finder test. My own line daughtered-out with my 2nd great-grandfather and I?m unable to locate any direct male cousins for yDNA testing. Now I'm wondering whether an autosomal DNA test would tell whether I'm related to any of the fellows who have already testedor would an autosomal test of a female descendant of one of those 7 brothers show a relationship to me? Would the $99 test from Ancestry.com do the trickor is the $289 Family Finder test from FTDNA necessary? I realize that no testing could tell *which* of the 7 brothers was the parent of my 3rd great-grandfatherI'm simply wondering if I can narrow him down to a certain clan. Can anyone answer those questions or direct me to a site that gives a thorough explanation of what autosomal DNA testing will do?

Can anyone tell me -- as DNA testing is further developed, will the samples already taken be capable of upgrading? My male cousin's Y-DNA and my own mtDNA are my concern. THANKS for this enlightening discussion. Dee in Maryland ==== On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 9:03 PM, BARTON LEWIS <bartonlewis@optonline.net> wrote: > To elaborate on Joan's helpful DNA primer ... autosomal DNA tests DNA > shared on the 22 chromosomes that don't determine sex.  The > sex-determining chromosome (either no. 22 or 23, can't remember which > right now) is only helpful for males, since it tests their Y chromosome. > mtDNA exists in the membrane around the nucleus, and is passed down from > a woman to all her children.  It is not passed down by a man to his > children.  Therefore, either a man or woman can test their mtDNA but it > will only identify the female lineage.  And the resolution is not good > at that -- at best (I believe) only giving a 50% probability that you > are related to a match. > > I have had both my mom and dad test their autosomal DNA.  Here is an one > example of how it has been useful to me:  my great grandmother was born > out of wedlock and we were told her father was unknown.  Then in 2008 a > distant cousin called and said he knew the man's name.  I tracked down > the granddaughter of this man's sister and she agreed to test.  She and > my dad would be second cousins if the story was true.  But it was not. > They did not match.  The more closely related you are to someone, the > more autosomal DNA you share.  Second cousins should almost definitely > be a match.  FTDNA tells you that it will only make matches back to > about 5th cousins, and that there is a slim chance of such a match, but > it's not true.  Paper trails confirm both my parents' matches with quite > a number of 3rd, 4th, 5th, and even 6th cousins.  Other matches we don't > know our relation to could very well be further back than that.  Since > you apparently have a number of distant cousins who have tested, that > increases your chances of making a match.  I recommend testing.  Even if > you don't match with this family, you are bound to get other matches > that could prove new connections. > > Barton Lewis > > > On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 2:48 PM, Kirsten Bowman wrote: > >> I have a fair understanding of the use of yDNA in genealogy but the >> blurbs I've read about autosomal DNA don't give a clue to whether that >> test would help solve a longstanding brick wall in my maternal line, >> which is as follows . . . >> >> My 3rd great-grandfather was born in 1788 in a sparsely-populated >> region of Canada.  I suspect he was the son of one of 7 brothers who >> settled in the area in the early 1780s.  Roughly a dozen direct male >> descendants of those 7 brothers have done yDNA tests through FTDNA. >> Some have tested up to 67 markers and one has done the FTDNA Family >> Finder test.  My own line daughtered-out with my 2nd great-grandfather >> and I’m unable to locate any direct male cousins for yDNA testing. >> >> Now I'm wondering whether an autosomal DNA test would tell whether I'm >> related to any of the fellows who have already tested, or would an >> autosomal test of a female descendant of one of those 7 brothers show >> a relationship to me?  Would the $99 test from Ancestry.com do the >> trick, or is the $289 Family Finder test from FTDNA necessary?  I >> realize that no testing could tell *which* of the 7 brothers was the >> parent of my 3rd great-grandfather; I'm simply wondering if I can >> narrow him down to a certain clan. >> Can anyone answer those questions or direct me to a site that gives a >> thorough explanation of what autosomal DNA testing will do? ===== >> If you would prefer digest mode to mail mode, drop a note to >> roots-admin@rootsweb.com and ask for the digest... >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ===== > If you would prefer digest mode to mail mode, drop a note to roots-admin@rootsweb.com and ask for the digest... > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Barton, MTDNA is a type of DNA not a company.. FTDNA is a genetic testing company ... For info on Genetic testing for Genealogy go READ: GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us Nelda Nelda L. Percival, Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp, Bonstein and Gillock My Genealogy - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ GilpinGenetics: http://www.gilpingenetics.us/ Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg > Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 22:19:34 -0400 > From: bartonlewis@optonline.net > To: dee.ziegler@gmail.com > CC: roots-l@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ROOTS-L] Autosomal DNA? > > I don't know about mtDNA, but FTDNA will allow you to upgrade your > Y-test for the difference in price to the higher test. > > Barton ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If your primary interest is in finding the direct male (surname) line on back to a common ancestor then all you need is a good Y-DNA test. You need autosomal testing for an overall view of ethnicity and matches that are not straight male line based. For instance...the person who wants to determine whether the family story that "dad's grandma was a Cherokee Indian" has any validity needs to have autosomal testing done. Joan In a message dated 5/16/2012 8:32:38 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, gale_gorman@me.com writes: Interesting. I can probably upgrade my test results at FTDNA at some point to include mtDNA. For now my focus is on finding the right Gormans in Ireland at 1803 and beyond. Gale Gorman Houston

Thanks to Joan, Barton, and Nelda for the informative responses. The fog is *beginning* to clear, but it's still pretty thick. I thoroughly understand the matching potential between men through yDNA testing and believe I understand mtDNA matching, but I'm really still in the dark about autosomal testing. If I do share a common ancestor with the men who have posted y-results it would be back about 7 generations (counting me), so that makes a match rather iffy right out of the gate. But then is it necessary for these men to also have mtDNA or autosomal tests and, if so, which? Or is it possible to find a match between an mtDNA or autosomal test from me and a yDNA test from one of these possible cousins? Kirsten -----Original Message----- From: Kirsten Bowman Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 2:48 PM To: Roots-L Subject: [ROOTS-L] Autosomal DNA? I have a fair understanding of the use of yDNA in genealogy but the blurbs I've read about autosomal DNA don't give a clue to whether that test would help solve a longstanding brick wall in my maternal line, which is as follows . . . My 3rd great-grandfather was born in 1788 in a sparsely-populated region of Canada. I suspect he was the son of one of 7 brothers who settled in the area in the early 1780s. Roughly a dozen direct male descendants of those 7 brothers have done yDNA tests through FTDNA. Some have tested up to 67 markers and one has done the FTDNA Family Finder test. My own line daughtered-out with my 2nd great-grandfather and I’m unable to locate any direct male cousins for yDNA testing. Now I'm wondering whether an autosomal DNA test would tell whether I'm related to any of the fellows who have already tested, or would an autosomal test of a female descendant of one of those 7 brothers show a relationship to me? Would the $99 test from Ancestry.com do the trick, or is the $289 Family Finder test from FTDNA necessary? I realize that no testing could tell *which* of the 7 brothers was the parent of my 3rd great-grandfather; I'm simply wondering if I can narrow him down to a certain clan. Can anyone answer those questions or direct me to a site that gives a thorough explanation of what autosomal DNA testing will do? ===== If you would prefer digest mode to mail mode, drop a note to roots-admin@rootsweb.com and ask for the digest... ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Kristin, Several of the answers given concerning DNA testing for Genealogical purposes were quite good but the did not clearly answer your question. Your answer is possibly, if you choose the right test. Y-DNA (of the strict father-father-father... etc line) and MT-DNA (for the STRICT mother-mother-mother... etc line) will tell you if you have a match IF the person you want to match is a member of the above strict lines (the edges on a ancestry chart ONLY). The autosomal tests are for all the other lines. In other words the Y-DNA and MT-DNA ONLY test two lines in your ancestry chart and are pretty much useless for identifying specific individuals. What those two tests are good for is giving you your haplogroup and telling where your ancestors came from 30,000 or so years ago. In other words, beyond 20 generations AT LEAST! The chances of you finding a specific individual randomly that falls on the two lines given above are VERY SLIM. The autosomal testing is not at all like that. It tests ALL lines in the family tree back about 5 to 7 generations quite accurately. Beyond that, the autosomal clues are pretty much diluted out as far as identifying specific families or individuals that are related to you... but all lines are tested. If you want to identify if a family is related to you AND THEY HAVE BEEN TESTED, or their DNA is available to test, then the autosomal tests will probably give you much more information than the Y-DNA or mitochondrial DNA testing. As far as Autosomal testing - Family Tree DNA is the largest in the world and provides one of the best testing services. Ancestry.com is just starting out and I know little about their testing but the general rule of thumb is that you get what you pay for. It is your choice though but unless there is a large enough database to compare against, it is useless for you to go looking for a match... if you know what I mean. FTDNA does have the Family Finder on sale from time to time for $199 or is you are a member of a surname group or other recognized group, you could get a special offer. You can go to ftdna.com and check all this out - they are very open about letting people browse to learn about DNA testing and what is available and what it will do you you. Check it out, what do you have to loose? And also MT-DNA is NOT found in the nuclear wall or membrane, it is found in all cell cytoplasm within the cell in structures called mitochondria - thus the name MT-DNA. Hope this helps and if you have further questions, you can email me direct if you wish. Dave Michaelson P.S. Gale, Y-DNA testing will not give you the information you are looking for - neither will MT-DNA testing. These test only test two SPECIFIC lines as I mentioned above. Autosomal testing will test the other lines but will only help you if both parties have been tested (or the situation in the next paragraph exists) which is true for all DNA testing. ALL these tests are useless for identifying people whose DNA is not available. What the autosomal testing is good for is to test people alive today that have provided their DNA and been tested and compare their DNA to yours. In that way, using information from both (yours and theirs) trees, you could possibly get the data you need. The more people that match you, the easier it is to narrow your search and identify specific individuals and/or families. Again, I hope this helps. Dave ==================================== In you email, you wrote - "Kirsten Bowman" <viking@rvi.net> Subject: [ROOTS-L] Autosomal DNA? I have a fair understanding of the use of yDNA in genealogy but the blurbs I ve read about autosomal DNA don't give a clue to whether that test would help solve a longstanding brick wall in my maternal linewhich is as follows . . My 3rd great-grandfather was born in 1788 in a sparsely-populated region of Canada. I suspect he was the son of one of 7 brothers who settled in the area in the early 1780s. Roughly a dozen direct male descendants of those 7 brothers have done yDNA tests through FTDNA. Some have tested up to 67 markers and one has done the FTDNA Family Finder test. My own line daughtered-out with my 2nd great-grandfather and I?m unable to locate any direct male cousins for yDNA testing. Now I'm wondering whether an autosomal DNA test would tell whether I'm related to any of the fellows who have already testedor would an autosomal test of a female descendant of one of those 7 brothers show a relationship to me? Would the $99 test from Ancestry.com do the trickor is the $289 Family Finder test from FTDNA necessary? I realize that no testing could tell *which* of the 7 brothers was the parent of my 3rd great-grandfatherI'm simply wondering if I can narrow him down to a certain clan. Can anyone answer those questions or direct me to a site that gives a thorough explanation of what autosomal DNA testing will do?

To elaborate on Joan's helpful DNA primer ... autosomal DNA tests DNA shared on the 22 chromosomes that don't determine sex. The sex-determining chromosome (either no. 22 or 23, can't remember which right now) is only helpful for males, since it tests their Y chromosome. mtDNA exists in the membrane around the nucleus, and is passed down from a woman to all her children. It is not passed down by a man to his children. Therefore, either a man or woman can test their mtDNA but it will only identify the female lineage. And the resolution is not good at that -- at best (I believe) only giving a 50% probability that you are related to a match. I have had both my mom and dad test their autosomal DNA. Here is an one example of how it has been useful to me: my great grandmother was born out of wedlock and we were told her father was unknown. Then in 2008 a distant cousin called and said he knew the man's name. I tracked down the granddaughter of this man's sister and she agreed to test. She and my dad would be second cousins if the story was true. But it was not. They did not match. The more closely related you are to someone, the more autosomal DNA you share. Second cousins should almost definitely be a match. FTDNA tells you that it will only make matches back to about 5th cousins, and that there is a slim chance of such a match, but it's not true. Paper trails confirm both my parents' matches with quite a number of 3rd, 4th, 5th, and even 6th cousins. Other matches we don't know our relation to could very well be further back than that. Since you apparently have a number of distant cousins who have tested, that increases your chances of making a match. I recommend testing. Even if you don't match with this family, you are bound to get other matches that could prove new connections. Barton Lewis On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 2:48 PM, Kirsten Bowman wrote: > I have a fair understanding of the use of yDNA in genealogy but the > blurbs I've read about autosomal DNA don't give a clue to whether that > test would help solve a longstanding brick wall in my maternal line, > which is as follows . . . > > My 3rd great-grandfather was born in 1788 in a sparsely-populated > region of Canada. I suspect he was the son of one of 7 brothers who > settled in the area in the early 1780s. Roughly a dozen direct male > descendants of those 7 brothers have done yDNA tests through FTDNA. > Some have tested up to 67 markers and one has done the FTDNA Family > Finder test. My own line daughtered-out with my 2nd great-grandfather > and I’m unable to locate any direct male cousins for yDNA testing. > > Now I'm wondering whether an autosomal DNA test would tell whether I'm > related to any of the fellows who have already tested, or would an > autosomal test of a female descendant of one of those 7 brothers show > a relationship to me? Would the $99 test from Ancestry.com do the > trick, or is the $289 Family Finder test from FTDNA necessary? I > realize that no testing could tell *which* of the 7 brothers was the > parent of my 3rd great-grandfather; I'm simply wondering if I can > narrow him down to a certain clan. > Can anyone answer those questions or direct me to a site that gives a > thorough explanation of what autosomal DNA testing will do? ===== > If you would prefer digest mode to mail mode, drop a note to > roots-admin@rootsweb.com and ask for the digest... > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks. Very informative. Gale Gorman Houston On May 16, 2012, at 8:03 PM, BARTON LEWIS wrote: To elaborate on Joan's helpful DNA primer ... autosomal DNA tests DNA shared on the 22 chromosomes that don't determine sex. The sex-determining chromosome (either no. 22 or 23, can't remember which right now) is only helpful for males, since it tests their Y chromosome. mtDNA exists in the membrane around the nucleus, and is passed down from a woman to all her children. It is not passed down by a man to his children. Therefore, either a man or woman can test their mtDNA but it will only identify the female lineage. And the resolution is not good at that -- at best (I believe) only giving a 50% probability that you are related to a match. I have had both my mom and dad test their autosomal DNA. Here is an one example of how it has been useful to me: my great grandmother was born out of wedlock and we were told her father was unknown. Then in 2008 a distant cousin called and said he knew the man's name. I tracked down the granddaughter of this man's sister and she agreed to test. She and my dad would be second cousins if the story was true. But it was not. They did not match. The more closely related you are to someone, the more autosomal DNA you share. Second cousins should almost definitely be a match. FTDNA tells you that it will only make matches back to about 5th cousins, and that there is a slim chance of such a match, but it's not true. Paper trails confirm both my parents' matches with quite a number of 3rd, 4th, 5th, and even 6th cousins. Other matches we don't know our relation to could very well be further back than that. Since you apparently have a number of distant cousins who have tested, that increases your chances of making a match. I recommend testing. Even if you don't match with this family, you are bound to get other matches that could prove new connections. Barton Lewis On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 2:48 PM, Kirsten Bowman wrote: > I have a fair understanding of the use of yDNA in genealogy but the > blurbs I've read about autosomal DNA don't give a clue to whether that > test would help solve a longstanding brick wall in my maternal line, > which is as follows . . . > > My 3rd great-grandfather was born in 1788 in a sparsely-populated > region of Canada. I suspect he was the son of one of 7 brothers who > settled in the area in the early 1780s. Roughly a dozen direct male > descendants of those 7 brothers have done yDNA tests through FTDNA. > Some have tested up to 67 markers and one has done the FTDNA Family > Finder test. My own line daughtered-out with my 2nd great-grandfather > and I’m unable to locate any direct male cousins for yDNA testing. > > Now I'm wondering whether an autosomal DNA test would tell whether I'm > related to any of the fellows who have already tested, or would an > autosomal test of a female descendant of one of those 7 brothers show > a relationship to me? Would the $99 test from Ancestry.com do the > trick, or is the $289 Family Finder test from FTDNA necessary? I > realize that no testing could tell *which* of the 7 brothers was the > parent of my 3rd great-grandfather; I'm simply wondering if I can > narrow him down to a certain clan. > Can anyone answer those questions or direct me to a site that gives a > thorough explanation of what autosomal DNA testing will do? ===== > If you would prefer digest mode to mail mode, drop a note to > roots-admin@rootsweb.com and ask for the digest... > >

Y-DNA testing is only for males and ONLY provides information about the straight paternal line of your ancestry (usually the SURNAME line from your father on back) -- the very top line of the pedigree. mtDNA tells you about your MOTHER (whether you are male or female) and tells you about the very BOTTOM line of the pedigree--mother's side straight on back which is not connected/linked by a single surname (in most cultures). Autosomal DNA is every other aspect of your DNA --- regardless of which side of your family tree it falls on. Y DNA and mtDNA are inherited intact from one parent of the other -- it can more easily be tied to a specific ancestor in common. Autosomal DNA isn't inherited INTACT and unless you have a paper trail to compare notes with those who share matching segments on a chromosome you can't pinpoint (at present at least) exactly where the connection lies to others with matching segments to yours. Scientists believe that in the future they may be able to recognize a tag on autosomal DNA to identify the ancestor it is coming from...but that isn't available to us as yet. Let me give you an example of a situation where my autosomal DNA test helped me find a cousin. The 23andme Relative Finder said we were probable 3rd cousins. That is exactly what we turned out to be. We had 2 matching segments. A small segment of chromosome 2 and a HUGE segment of the X chromosome. Our X chromosome match was about 90%! Males only inherit a SINGLE X from their MOTHER and get the Y from their father. So we KNEW on the surface our match was on his mother's side. Females inherit TWO X chromosomes (and no Y). So we didn't know until we compared notes whether our match was on my mother's or father's side. Through a paper comparison of our trees we learned that his mother's father's mother and my father's mother's mother were siblings. Since this match is not a straight line male or female line match...mtDNA and Y DNA (where available) wouldn't have found our match and relationship. Autosomal testing coupled with our own knowledge proved our relationship. Joan On May 16, 2012, at 4:48 PM, Kirsten Bowman wrote: I have a fair understanding of the use of yDNA in genealogy but the blurbs I've read about autosomal DNA don't give a clue to whether that test would help solve a longstanding brick wall in my maternal line, which is as follows . . . My 3rd great-grandfather was born in 1788 in a sparsely-populated region of Canada. I suspect he was the son of one of 7 brothers who settled in the area in the early 1780s. Roughly a dozen direct male descendants of those 7 brothers have done yDNA tests through FTDNA. Some have tested up to 67 markers and one has done the FTDNA Family Finder test. My own line daughtered-out with my 2nd great-grandfather and I知 unable to locate any direct male cousins for yDNA testing. Now I'm wondering whether an autosomal DNA test would tell whether I'm related to any of the fellows who have already tested, or would an autosomal test of a female descendant of one of those 7 brothers show a relationship to me? Would the $99 test from Ancestry.com do the trick, or is the $289 Family Finder test from FTDNA necessary? I realize that no testing could tell *which* of the 7 brothers was the parent of my 3rd great-grandfather; I'm simply wondering if I can narrow him down to a certain clan. Can anyone answer those questions or direct me to a site that gives a thorough explanation of what autosomal DNA testing will do?

Interesting. I can probably upgrade my test results at FTDNA at some point to include mtDNA. For now my focus is on finding the right Gormans in Ireland at 1803 and beyond. Gale Gorman Houston On May 16, 2012, at 6:42 PM, JYoung6180@aol.com wrote: Y-DNA testing is only for males and ONLY provides information about the straight paternal line of your ancestry (usually the SURNAME line from your father on back) -- the very top line of the pedigree. mtDNA tells you about your MOTHER (whether you are male or female) and tells you about the very BOTTOM line of the pedigree--mother's side straight on back which is not connected/linked by a single surname (in most cultures). Autosomal DNA is every other aspect of your DNA --- regardless of which side of your family tree it falls on. Y DNA and mtDNA are inherited intact from one parent of the other -- it can more easily be tied to a specific ancestor in common. Autosomal DNA isn't inherited INTACT and unless you have a paper trail to compare notes with those who share matching segments on a chromosome you can't pinpoint (at present at least) exactly where the connection lies to others with matching segments to yours. Scientists believe that in the future they may be able to recognize a tag on autosomal DNA to identify the ancestor it is coming from...but that isn't available to us as yet. Let me give you an example of a situation where my autosomal DNA test helped me find a cousin. The 23andme Relative Finder said we were probable 3rd cousins. That is exactly what we turned out to be. We had 2 matching segments. A small segment of chromosome 2 and a HUGE segment of the X chromosome. Our X chromosome match was about 90%! Males only inherit a SINGLE X from their MOTHER and get the Y from their father. So we KNEW on the surface our match was on his mother's side. Females inherit TWO X chromosomes (and no Y). So we didn't know until we compared notes whether our match was on my mother's or father's side. Through a paper comparison of our trees we learned that his mother's father's mother and my father's mother's mother were siblings. Since this match is not a straight line male or female line match...mtDNA and Y DNA (where available) wouldn't have found our match and relationship. Autosomal testing coupled with our own knowledge proved our relationship. Joan On May 16, 2012, at 4:48 PM, Kirsten Bowman wrote: I have a fair understanding of the use of yDNA in genealogy but the blurbs I've read about autosomal DNA don't give a clue to whether that test would help solve a longstanding brick wall in my maternal line, which is as follows . . . My 3rd great-grandfather was born in 1788 in a sparsely-populated region of Canada. I suspect he was the son of one of 7 brothers who settled in the area in the early 1780s. Roughly a dozen direct male descendants of those 7 brothers have done yDNA tests through FTDNA. Some have tested up to 67 markers and one has done the FTDNA Family Finder test. My own line daughtered-out with my 2nd great-grandfather and I知 unable to locate any direct male cousins for yDNA testing. Now I'm wondering whether an autosomal DNA test would tell whether I'm related to any of the fellows who have already tested, or would an autosomal test of a female descendant of one of those 7 brothers show a relationship to me? Would the $99 test from Ancestry.com do the trick, or is the $289 Family Finder test from FTDNA necessary? I realize that no testing could tell *which* of the 7 brothers was the parent of my 3rd great-grandfather; I'm simply wondering if I can narrow him down to a certain clan. Can anyone answer those questions or direct me to a site that gives a thorough explanation of what autosomal DNA testing will do?

The area BETWEEN Y and mtDNA. That is what Dr Scott Woodward told me and others in person 4 years ago. David S. On 5/16/2012 5:21 PM, Gale Gorman wrote: > I have no idea what autosomal DNA is.

My results are due any day from FTDNA testing. I opted for the 67 markers. I'm trying to locate descendants from Ireland and my hope is that other with a Y-DNA match will have information I don't have. Irish records are really skimpy. I may be too early in the game but others will get tested as it becomes more publicized. At some point in time we will be in a database where we can readily communicate with cousins everywhere. My 2nd great grandfather was born in Ireland in 1803 and married in Alabama in 1832. He had brothers who also came to Alabama but I have no idea yet if they came together or later. My gg grandfather was the oldest. I also don't know if he had other siblings who stayed in Ireland or perhaps went to another continent. So if I can't pinpoint him in Ireland I also can't identify his parents or relatives. I have no idea what autosomal DNA is. I think I qualified for a discount at FTDNA because there is a Gorman surname project in place and that is my surname. I paid $238 for the 67 marker test. Gale Gorman Houston On May 16, 2012, at 4:48 PM, Kirsten Bowman wrote: I have a fair understanding of the use of yDNA in genealogy but the blurbs I've read about autosomal DNA don't give a clue to whether that test would help solve a longstanding brick wall in my maternal line, which is as follows . . . My 3rd great-grandfather was born in 1788 in a sparsely-populated region of Canada. I suspect he was the son of one of 7 brothers who settled in the area in the early 1780s. Roughly a dozen direct male descendants of those 7 brothers have done yDNA tests through FTDNA. Some have tested up to 67 markers and one has done the FTDNA Family Finder test. My own line daughtered-out with my 2nd great-grandfather and I’m unable to locate any direct male cousins for yDNA testing. Now I'm wondering whether an autosomal DNA test would tell whether I'm related to any of the fellows who have already tested, or would an autosomal test of a female descendant of one of those 7 brothers show a relationship to me? Would the $99 test from Ancestry.com do the trick, or is the $289 Family Finder test from FTDNA necessary? I realize that no testing could tell *which* of the 7 brothers was the parent of my 3rd great-grandfather; I'm simply wondering if I can narrow him down to a certain clan. Can anyone answer those questions or direct me to a site that gives a thorough explanation of what autosomal DNA testing will do?

Is this any help? At least you have birth places for the children and George's birth date and date of death Eliz Name: Jr George Hebert Age: 4 [4 11/12] Birth Year: abt 1916 [abt 1915] Birthplace: North Dakota Home in 1920: Fargo Ward 6, Cass, North Dakota Race: White Gender: Male Relation to Head of House: Son Marital Status: Single Father's Name: George Hebert Father's Birthplace: Minnesota Mother's Name: Etta R Hebert Mother's Birthplace: Minnesota Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age George Hebert 27 Etta R Hebert 26 George Hebert 4 [4 11/12] Marie E Hebert 3 [3 11/12] William E Hebert 2 [2 6/12] Source Citation: Year: 1920; Census Place: Fargo Ward 6, Cass, North Dakota; Roll: T625_1332; Page: 2A; Enumeration District: 19; Image: 470. Name: Etta R Hebert Gender: Female Birth Year: abt 1895 Birthplace: Minnesota Race: White Home in 1930: Fargo, Cass, North Dakota View Map Marital Status: Married Relation to Head of House: Wife Spouse's Name: George J Hebert Father's Birthplace: Norway Mother's Birthplace: Norway Occupation: Education: Military Service: Rent/home value: Age at first marriage: Parents' birthplace: View image Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age George J Hebert 36 Etta R Hebert 35 George J Hebert 15 Marie E Hebert 14 William E Hebert 12 Rolland E Milligan 34 Source Citation: Year: 1930; Census Place: Fargo, Cass, North Dakota; Roll: 1733; Page: 13B; Enumeration District: 44; Image: 1090.0; FHL microfilm: 2341467. Two possibles in the SSDI for George and his son George Jr and then George J's draft card Name: George Hebert SSN: 501-03-8070 Last Residence: 58401 Jamestown, Stutsman, North Dakota, United States of America Born: 22 Nov 1893 Died: Jul 1975 State (Year) SSN issued: North Dakota (Before 1951) Name: George Hebert SSN: 501-01-1798 Born: 5 Jan 1915 Died: Oct 1969 State (Year) SSN issued: North Da Name: George Joseph Hebert County: Cass State: North Dakota Birthplace: North Dakota;United States of America Birth Date: 22 Nov 1893 Race: Caucasian (White) FHL Roll Number: 1819406 DraftBoard: 0 Age: Occupation: Nearest Relative: Height/Build: Color of Eyes/Hair: Signature: Vi On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 6:41 PM, John D. Sissom <johnsissom@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > Hi Gang, > > For the first time, I am looking for some information in North Dakota.  I have recently began to research the BRIGGS line and am including a small intro to the family I am seeking.  If you care to participate, I would welcome it. > > John Sissom > > > Etta R. Briggs, the child of William (Willie) Briggs and Mary E. Mathison was born January, 1895, in Minnesota.  Etta married George Hebert.  He was born ca. 1894.  Etta R. Briggs is found in 1895 in Murray County, Minnesota.  Etta R. Briggs is found June 26, 1905, in Georgetown, Clay County, Minnesota.  Etta R. Briggs and George Hebert are found in 1920, Ward 6, Fargo, Cass County, North Dakota. > George Hebert, the child of Etta R. Briggs and George Hebert was born ca. 1915, location uncertain. > Marie E. Hebert, the child of Etta R. Briggs and George Hebert was born ca. 1916, location uncertain. > William E. Hebert, the child of Etta R. Briggs and George Hebert was born ca. 1918, location uncertain. > ===== > If you would prefer digest mode to mail mode, drop a note to roots-admin@rootsweb.com and ask for the digest... > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have a fair understanding of the use of yDNA in genealogy but the blurbs I've read about autosomal DNA don't give a clue to whether that test would help solve a longstanding brick wall in my maternal line, which is as follows . . . My 3rd great-grandfather was born in 1788 in a sparsely-populated region of Canada. I suspect he was the son of one of 7 brothers who settled in the area in the early 1780s. Roughly a dozen direct male descendants of those 7 brothers have done yDNA tests through FTDNA. Some have tested up to 67 markers and one has done the FTDNA Family Finder test. My own line daughtered-out with my 2nd great-grandfather and I’m unable to locate any direct male cousins for yDNA testing. Now I'm wondering whether an autosomal DNA test would tell whether I'm related to any of the fellows who have already tested, or would an autosomal test of a female descendant of one of those 7 brothers show a relationship to me? Would the $99 test from Ancestry.com do the trick, or is the $289 Family Finder test from FTDNA necessary? I realize that no testing could tell *which* of the 7 brothers was the parent of my 3rd great-grandfather; I'm simply wondering if I can narrow him down to a certain clan. Can anyone answer those questions or direct me to a site that gives a thorough explanation of what autosomal DNA testing will do?

Care and Identification of Photographs (from daguerreotypes to digital) July 16-19, 2012: Austin, TX This workshop will be hosted by the Harry Ransom Center @UT Austin FOR FURTHER DETAILS AND ONLINE REGISTRATION: http://gawainweaver.com/workshops/ _________________________________________________________________ What are the defining characteristics of individual photographic processes? How does environment affect the lives of photographic objects? In this 4-day intensive workshop, you will develop identification skills and knowledge about fine art and historic photographic processes, from the daguerreotype to digital prints. This workshop is intended for curators, collectors, archivists, collection managers, and anyone who studies or appreciates photographic prints. Using handheld 60x microscopes and a large set of photographic and photomechanical samples, you will learn how a variety of processes were created, why they look the way they do, and how they deteriorate. Group ID sessions, using a digital microscope and screen projection, will allow participants to practice their identification skills in a guided setting. Preservation topics include enclosures, handling guidelines, environmental monitoring, the effects of temperature and relative humidity on collections, and the importance of cold storage for certain photographic materials. Over 30 different processes are studied in great detail, from how daguerreotypes are made and how they are best preserved, to how long-lasting inkjet prints are created, and how to preserve and store color photographic materials and cellulose nitrate and cellulose acetate-based photographic film. Registration Includes: • 4-day workshop • 260-page color notebook • 60x LED handheld microscope • OPTIONAL: Basic Photographic Sample Set The registration fee for this 4-day workshop is $795 (STUDENT PRICE $645) and includes a handheld microscope and a workshop notebook with lecture handouts, Quick ID Sheets for each process, and a selection of readings on photograph preservation. The Basic Photographic Sample Set, consisting of 18 identified photographic and photomechanical processes, is available with registration for $75. Due to the hands-on nature of this workshop, the number of participants will be limited to 14. The Academy of Certified Archivists (ACA), a certifying organization of professional archivists, will award 15 Archival Recertification Credits (ARCs) to eligible Certified Archivists (CAs) attending this workshop. The American Society of Appraisers and the International Society of Appraisers will award 24 reaccreditation hours/professional development credits for qualified appraisers attending this workshop. For more information, please contact the instructor: Gawain Weaver Photograph Conservator tel 415.446.9138 info@gawainweaver.com http://gawainweaver.com

ANSWER TO BELOW: John, You might want to try the below two sites to see if there is anything there on your family. Gretchen _http://history.nd.gov/_ (http://history.nd.gov/) _Welcome to the State Historical Society of North Dakota_ (http://history.nd.gov/) ------------------ _http://library.ndsu.edu/archives/biography-genealogy_ (http://library.ndsu.edu/archives/biography-genealogy) _NDSU Libraries Institute for Regional Studies & Archives — Genealogy & Biography_ (http://library.ndsu.edu/archives/biography-genealogy) ORIGINAL QUESTION: From: "John D. Sissom" <johnsissom@sbcglobal.net> Subject: [ROOTS-L] BRIGGS / HEBERT in North Dakota To: Roots List <roots-l@rootsweb.com> Hi Gang, ? For the first time, I am looking for some information in North Dakota.? I have recently began to research the BRIGGS line and am including a small intro to the family I am seeking.? If you care to participate, I would welcome it. ? John Sissom CLIPPED..........................

I've posted messages several times on the Ancetry.com message board re. a link to note(s) mentioning Rose (b. 1902) & Dewey YOUNGQUIST (b.1898). I also have access to 5 additional family members of Victor Youngquist (b.1862) & Josephine (b.1869). I can find NO WAY to establish communication with this Youngquist segment of the Nyholm Family. If you have knowledge of this link, please contact me. L J (Bud) Swendner, Jr. <swede@wizwire.com> It's 'tuff to be modest when you're Swedish

Hi everyone Just have a couple of questions re firstly Military lists for the community. How can one check these, could Henry Fuller be on this list, is there a list for Leechburgh or just Co. Armstrong in general. (Civil War) Is there any such thing as "Trade Directories" that a person may be entered in as Henry Fuller was a Cooper I thought he may be in a directory. Are there any local papers that can be checked for the years Henry Fuller and family were living in Co. Armstrong (Allengheny Twp) Leechburgh say from 1840's onwards. As Henry was in the civil war I thought that there maybe some mention of him in the paper. Are there Tax records kept for Armstrong at all? 1864 July 18: Mary Anne Rose Fuller buys lot 56 & 57 in Leechburg. Mary Ann Rose/Fuller purchased two lots of land in Leechburgh in 1864 belonging to David Leech and his wife Harriet Leech the two lots, on July 18, 1864 being each sixty feet on Market Street (on the south) (on the west by Third Street,)and extending back 120 feet to Diamond Alley (on the north), on the east by lot 55. Mary Anne paid 300 dollars. Witnessed by David Leech. Is the Pittsburgh Dailey Gazette searchable at all. Kind regards Dianna