Solingen is a city in what is now NordRhein-Westfalen Before end of World War II, it was Solingen, Solingen, Rheinland, Germany (if before 1871, Prussia instead of Germany) 2nd Solingen refers to Kr. Solingen which is like a county. the city is renowned for German knives (90 percent are made there). And it is also birthplace of Adolf Eichmann. David On 6/8/2012 5:02 PM, vjspringer@aol.com wrote: > > Hi, > > I am trying to figure out how to tell my family that 4 sets of ancestors came from Germany in the 1700s > They were from Hesse, Rhineland, and Solingen (don't know what that state or whatever was called.) > > I wrote that it was not correct to call them Germans in that time period. I said that they were of Germanic > heritage, they spoke German, and are from an area that is now Germany. My family that I give the genealogy too understands the country Germany (now) but have no idea of that time period and are not going to research it. Is this too simplified or how else could I say it. > > Velma > ===== > If you would prefer digest mode to mail mode, drop a note to roots-admin@rootsweb.com and ask for the digest... > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi, I am trying to figure out how to tell my family that 4 sets of ancestors came from Germany in the 1700s They were from Hesse, Rhineland, and Solingen (don't know what that state or whatever was called.) I wrote that it was not correct to call them Germans in that time period. I said that they were of Germanic heritage, they spoke German, and are from an area that is now Germany. My family that I give the genealogy too understands the country Germany (now) but have no idea of that time period and are not going to research it. Is this too simplified or how else could I say it. Velma

Velma: I agree with Megan's response and think that your simplified explanation is the best. But since you know some of the specific locations, and since German research is so location-specific, it would be so helpful if you somehow gave some clues regarding the places that you do know. In the next generation or two you may have a descendant who gets "the Bug" and will bless you for leaving those hints. Kirsten -----Original Message----- From: vjspringer@aol.com Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 4:02 PM To: Roots@rootsweb.com Subject: [ROOTS-L] Germany Hi, I am trying to figure out how to tell my family that 4 sets of ancestors came from Germany in the 1700s They were from Hesse, Rhineland, and Solingen (don't know what that state or whatever was called.) I wrote that it was not correct to call them Germans in that time period. I said that they were of Germanic heritage, they spoke German, and are from an area that is now Germany. My family that I give the genealogy too understands the country Germany (now) but have no idea of that time period and are not going to research it. Is this too simplified or how else could I say it. Velma =====

Hi Jack, I hope you enjoy your retirement.:} I don't have any Clifton's in my tree but know there is a Clifton Street in Plymouth, Massachusetts:} A cousin used to live there. It is just up the hill from Plimouth Plantation, the place where times back then is re-enacted:} I wish you well All the best and take care. Barbara in MA

Hi all ~     I'm sooooo sorry about this....it appears I got hacked somehow (still trying to figure it out), but please don't open anything from me if it looks weird. I almost always put something in the subject line to let the recipient know what the email's about, so if you don't see that - don't open! It hit yesterday so I'm still trying to figure out what to do.     It's been suggested that passwords should be changed. I've done that; you might want to also.     I'm sending alert emails via blind carbon copy, as that was suggested also since it probably attaches itself to contact list. If I end up getting a new email address, I won't be having anymore contact lists! I might just go ahead and delete what I've got and respond only to individual emails in an effort to stop this...sure reinformces my natural inclination to hermitage!    Again, I'm so sorry.     Rita

Hi Sallie As I said yesterday, its your database so use whatever suits you That is what is most important, you Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 08/06/2012 13:31, Sallie wrote: > Kirsten- > > Thank you, very much. But I must agree to disagree~~~~~~~~ > > I have worked on Genealogy for many years. I am 78 and started in 1980. I > also knew my Grandfather well. He said his parents were born in > Germany/Baden Baden, etc. I believed him, that they were born in Germany. 3

Google is not the answer. Go to Wikipedia for details. Holy Roman Empire covering Germany ENDED in 1806. Germany's unification without Austria started in 1815 in different forms and did not united whole Germany until 1871. *Unification of Germany **Confederation of the Rhine (formed by Napoleon after he defeated Austria and Russia) **German Confederation (pathetic attempt in 1815, dissolved in 1866 when two members went at each other - Austria and Prussia) **Zollverein (just a Customs Union with power in the hands of Prussians, lasted until 1919, and included Luxembourg) **German Revolutions of 1848 (failed attempt by liberals and nationalists) **North German Confederation (covered almost entire northern part of Germany, excluding Wuerttemberg, Bavaria, Baden and Hesse) *The German Reich (began in 1871) **German Empire (began 1871 and lasted until 1918) If you would stop and look at the U.S. Census, there's no mention of Germany in 1850, 1860 and 1870. It is Prussia, Wuerttemberg, Bavaria, Oldenburg, Hannover, Baden, Luxembourg. David Samuelsen On 6/8/2012 10:27 AM, Phil Stevens wrote: > I George an group , The place NOW known as Germany was the Holy Roman > empire of Germany ,,, If any body would like more info , google and do " > unification of Germany " be prepared to spend more than 30 minutes reading

I George an group , The place NOW known as Germany was the Holy Roman empire of Germany ,,, If any body would like more info , google and do " unification of Germany " be prepared to spend more than 30 minutes reading ----- Original Message ----- From: "George W. Durman" <GeorgeWDurman@comcast.net> To: <roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 2:04 PM Subject: Re: [ROOTS-L] Niederlosheim Losheim am See, Merzig-Wadern, Saarland, Germany , a ? I agree with Nivard. When I enter places in what is now Germany, I enter them as they were at the time. For instance, here is how I have some one place and its events entered Ötisheim (Oetisheim), Duchy of Württemberg, Holy Roman Empire (became Baden-Württemberg, Germany in 1918)

Kirsten- Thank you, very much. But I must agree to disagree~~~~~~~~ I have worked on Genealogy for many years. I am 78 and started in 1980. I also knew my Grandfather well. He said his parents were born in Germany/Baden Baden, etc. I believed him, that they were born in Germany. 3 brother came to Ohio along with my Greatgrandmother and her aunts. One brother stayed in their homeplace. He invented 'Twilight Sleep'. When I was in high school I found a book in the Library about TS with my greatuncles name on it. Much later I tried to find the book but it was not there. Much much later I Googled TS and other names are in the article. BUT, I know and saw the printed proof that he did 'make' it. When I see their death certificates OR Census pages which they have given information for OR Probate Papers OR any other legal page such as Immigration papers listed as their being born in Germany THAT is what I will enter. My software accepts their birthplace as Germany along with the years they were born. Irregardless to everything I read yesterday on email, I will continue to enter Germany for their birthplaces. Sallie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirsten Bowman" <viking@rvi.net> To: "Sallie" <gentenmawps@rgv.rr.com> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 12:26 AM Subject: Re: [ROOTS-L] Niederlosheim Losheim am See, Merzig-Wadern, Saarland,Germany , a ? > Sallie: > > I certainly didn't intend to hint that you were "dumb"; I only agreed with > Phil in that there was no country called Germany until 1871. From Roman > times the people were referred to as "Germanic" and those who immigrated > to the US in the 1800s very often referred to themselves as "German" even > before 1871, but if you're looking for a term to use for country in the > location field of your software then "Germany" is not a proper choice > until January 1871. > > Peace, > > Kirsten > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sallie > Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 9:14 PM > To: Kirsten Bowman > Subject: Re: [ROOTS-L] Niederlosheim Losheim am See, Merzig-Wadern, > Saarland,Germany , a ? > > Then tell my greats that they didn't know where they were born, where they > came from. Not once in any of my official records of my Kinzig Family-by > the > way there is a Kinzig River in Germany-was Prussia mentioned! And I am not > dumb! > Sallie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kirsten Bowman" <viking@rvi.net> > To: "Sallie" <gentenmawps@rgv.rr.com>; "Phil Stevens" > <bstevens27@frontier.com>; <roots@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 3:21 PM > Subject: Re: [ROOTS-L] Niederlosheim Losheim am See, Merzig-Wadern, > Saarland,Germany , a ? > > >> Sallie: >> >> Phil's correct. It wasn't until 1871 that a whole group of individual >> states were united into the German Empire. Before that, they were each >> independently ruled and truly separate countries. To call them "Germany" >> would be similar to calling the 13 colonies the "United States" prior to >> 1776--although with the colonies there was a single government (generally >> English), but there was no single ruling body in Germany before 1871. >> >> Kirsten >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sallie >> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 12:37 PM >> To: Phil Stevens ; roots@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [ROOTS-L] Niederlosheim Losheim am See, Merzig-Wadern, >> Saarland,Germany , a ? >> >> This is so odd. I don't know really what you are discussing..... >> >> You say Germany didn't exist until 1871. Well my grgrandfather was born >> Aug >> 1844 in Baden, Hessen Nassau, Germany, so where does this leave him!!! >> >> Sallie Lou Morris Nelson >> San Benito TX via Logansport/Deacon IN >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Phil Stevens" <bstevens27@frontier.com> >> To: <roots@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 1:19 PM >> Subject: [ROOTS-L] Niederlosheim Losheim am See, Merzig-Wadern, >> Saarland,Germany , a ? >> >> >>> Hello Rooters , gotta question for you today , I believe that the use >>> of >>> " Germany " in the subect place is in error , As Ggermany did not exist >>> until 1871 , So to include it in a database would be dumb ?? , Phil >> >> ===== >> If you would prefer digest mode to mail mode, drop a note to >> roots-admin@rootsweb.com and ask for the digest... >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5054 - Release Date: 06/07/12 >> > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5055 - Release Date: 06/07/12 >

I have had a lot of fun for the last 35 years searching the Clifton family. Now I am 83 years old and I think its time to stop, but before I do . I would like to hear from any one who knows of a Clifton family member living in a country other than England and of course they must be from Cornwall or Devon. I know that there some in California that I have not been able to contact.I thank you all in advance and peace be with you all. Cousin Jack Clifton in sunny Florida

Hi Ron I think what matters is what it means to the individual whose tree it is , I would be highly surprised if there are no similar mistakes in my tree, but as its my tree I know what it means and if I find an error along the way I will change it when I find it I really wish I had known better when I started off, to record the source and more fully at that, several times I have had to go over the same ground again to check I had the right data But there again in so doing I have often found additional data I missed the first time round so perhaps its a worthy cause :-) Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 07/06/2012 22:59, Ron Mitchell wrote: > Perhaps dumb is a strong word in this usage. In my case, years of > putting United States in a record before 1777 was certainly an avoidable > mistake had I been thinking. It has been rectified in all my records. > Those records for people prior to 1777 have generally British America, > but not all. Really no different in using Wisconsin before 1848 since > Wisconsin didn't exist before that or Hawaii or Alaska prior to 1959. > Territory yes, state, no. > Ron > Submarine Vet.

FWIW, Niederlosheim was never in a duchy. It's Elector of Trier (better known as Archbishop of Trier. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electorate_of_Trier The position was most powerful in the Holy Roman Empire before Napoleon put an end to that. So, bottom line, sometimes it is better to list Prussia in lieu of those crazy nitty small kingdoms in that area. David On 6/7/2012 7:09 PM, Kith-n-Kin wrote: > I appreciate all who clarified what was what and to whom it belonged when. . > . I get a bit befuddled myself on some of that (thank goodness for Google). > > However, as to the original question. > > First, determine the actual name and political unit of the place in question > AT the time of the event. > Second. In the database make an entry that reflects the past and the > present. > > The easiest way is to put either: > > This Place, This Duchy (now) Neiderlosheim. . . > > OR > > Neiderlosheim. . . , (then) This place, this Duchy. > > Remember that your goal is (should be?) always to "remember the > reader/researcher who follows in your footsteps." > > You want those reading your reports, or otherwise "coming after you" to know > two things. First, what was the place called when the event took place. > Second. How would I find it if I wanted to go there. > > So, to use Ron's example below, for a marriage in Virginia in 1773, I would > put > > Colony of Virginia (now Virginia). > > Depending on the software, you might want to put a note of clarification > with the event. The Master Genealogist allows you to "restrict" labels by > date. So, should you put "New York" for an event that occurred before a > particular date, it would give you a warning. > > We run into this very problem frequently with counties, states, and > territories that change boundaries over the years. I have many with "Arizona > Territory" or "New Mexico Territory" or "Territory of Hawaii" in my records. > Those I generally wouldn't bother to "clarify." But one I can think of that > would require that is one from the "New Mexico Territory" but was in what > became the "Arizona Territory" and is now "Arizona." I don't bother to list > all the possible iterations (especially with some of the European states), > but at least that contemporary with the event and the current. > > An example of this is an 1808 Petition for Citizenship for an ancestor who > was "clearly German" -- but was "subject to the Emperor of France." You'd > have to know where Boney was at that time to narrow in on what "Germanic" > states he was "emperor" of. BTW, still haven't got that one for sure. > > But, in putting the "born in" event in the database, I put where I "think" > he was, based on the research, along with the current name of the region. > > Pat > In Tucson > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: roots-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of Nivard Ovington > Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 3:09 PM > To: Ron Mitchell > Cc: ROOTS-L: rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ROOTS-L] Niederlosheim Losheim am See, Merzig-Wadern, > Saarland, Germany , a ? > > Hi Ron > > I think what matters is what it means to the individual whose tree it is , I > would be highly surprised if there are no similar mistakes in my tree, but > as its my tree I know what it means and if I find an error along the way I > will change it when I find it > > I really wish I had known better when I started off, to record the source > and more fully at that, several times I have had to go over the same ground > again to check I had the right data > > But there again in so doing I have often found additional data I missed the > first time round so perhaps its a worthy cause :-) > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > ===== > If you would prefer digest mode to mail mode, drop a note to roots-admin@rootsweb.com and ask for the digest... > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Again I could not agree more with you We all use different words and ways to communicate and sometimes it does not read well when no malice was intended Email is one of those methods that is sometimes hard to convey the right tone hence copious use of smileys :-) Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 07/06/2012 22:09, BARTON LEWIS wrote: > Okay, point taken but as someone who has been guilty of being > insensitive in the past, just think we need to be careful how we phrase > things on the web. > > Barton

Absolutely agree Barton but much depends on the usage of dumb I think its just a term used by Phil and not meant in a malicious way Some words have more force or carry more weight when read literally but I don't believe it was intended that way A better way might have been to say it was incorrect Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 07/06/2012 21:32, BARTON LEWIS wrote: > "Generally we should be thinking and recording how things were at the > time they happened rather than in todays terms" > > I agree, but Phil's assertion that it would be "dumb" to state that > Sallie's ancestor was born in Germany in 1844 is inappropriate. There's > a polite way to point out such information, and that is not it. > > Barton

Hi Sallie It means he was born in Baden http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baden Which became part of Germany in 1871 See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany Generally we should be thinking and recording how things were at the time they happened rather than in todays terms Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 07/06/2012 20:37, Sallie wrote: > This is so odd. I don't know really what you are discussing..... > > You say Germany didn't exist until 1871. Well my grgrandfather was born Aug > 1844 in Baden, Hessen Nassau, Germany, so where does this leave him!!! > > Sallie Lou Morris Nelson > San Benito TX via Logansport/Deacon IN

Hello listers. I found file from timdavis@adelphia.net> on his family tree and I am in the same line Through Alanson Davis , Fedelia and James Doff/Dolph My problem is this address no longer works. My question is does anyone know how to reach him? His full name is Timothy Davis and his line stems from Bennington Co, Vt. and n w Mass. Thanks for any help. Em

I appreciate all who clarified what was what and to whom it belonged when. . . I get a bit befuddled myself on some of that (thank goodness for Google). However, as to the original question. First, determine the actual name and political unit of the place in question AT the time of the event. Second. In the database make an entry that reflects the past and the present. The easiest way is to put either: This Place, This Duchy (now) Neiderlosheim. . . OR Neiderlosheim. . . , (then) This place, this Duchy. Remember that your goal is (should be?) always to "remember the reader/researcher who follows in your footsteps." You want those reading your reports, or otherwise "coming after you" to know two things. First, what was the place called when the event took place. Second. How would I find it if I wanted to go there. So, to use Ron's example below, for a marriage in Virginia in 1773, I would put Colony of Virginia (now Virginia). Depending on the software, you might want to put a note of clarification with the event. The Master Genealogist allows you to "restrict" labels by date. So, should you put "New York" for an event that occurred before a particular date, it would give you a warning. We run into this very problem frequently with counties, states, and territories that change boundaries over the years. I have many with "Arizona Territory" or "New Mexico Territory" or "Territory of Hawaii" in my records. Those I generally wouldn't bother to "clarify." But one I can think of that would require that is one from the "New Mexico Territory" but was in what became the "Arizona Territory" and is now "Arizona." I don't bother to list all the possible iterations (especially with some of the European states), but at least that contemporary with the event and the current. An example of this is an 1808 Petition for Citizenship for an ancestor who was "clearly German" -- but was "subject to the Emperor of France." You'd have to know where Boney was at that time to narrow in on what "Germanic" states he was "emperor" of. BTW, still haven't got that one for sure. But, in putting the "born in" event in the database, I put where I "think" he was, based on the research, along with the current name of the region. Pat In Tucson -----Original Message----- From: roots-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Nivard Ovington Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 3:09 PM To: Ron Mitchell Cc: ROOTS-L: rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ROOTS-L] Niederlosheim Losheim am See, Merzig-Wadern, Saarland, Germany , a ? Hi Ron I think what matters is what it means to the individual whose tree it is , I would be highly surprised if there are no similar mistakes in my tree, but as its my tree I know what it means and if I find an error along the way I will change it when I find it I really wish I had known better when I started off, to record the source and more fully at that, several times I have had to go over the same ground again to check I had the right data But there again in so doing I have often found additional data I missed the first time round so perhaps its a worthy cause :-) Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

Perhaps dumb is a strong word in this usage. In my case, years of putting United States in a record before 1777 was certainly an avoidable mistake had I been thinking. It has been rectified in all my records. Those records for people prior to 1777 have generally British America, but not all. Really no different in using Wisconsin before 1848 since Wisconsin didn't exist before that or Hawaii or Alaska prior to 1959. Territory yes, state, no. Ron Submarine Vet. On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Nivard Ovington wrote: > Again I could not agree more with you > > We all use different words and ways to communicate and sometimes it > does not read well when no malice was intended > > Email is one of those methods that is sometimes hard to convey the > right tone hence copious use of smileys :-) > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > On 07/06/2012 22:09, BARTON LEWIS wrote: >> Okay, point taken but as someone who has been guilty of being >> insensitive in the past, just think we need to be careful how we >> phrase >> things on the web. >> >> Barton > ===== > If you would prefer digest mode to mail mode, drop a note to > roots-admin@rootsweb.com and ask for the digest... > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It leaves him born in the Grand Duchy of Hesse Nassau <G> but she is right there was no "Germany" until the 1870 when Prussia pretty well did a take over <G> Eliz On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Sallie <gentenmawps@rgv.rr.com> wrote: > This is so odd. I don't know really what you are discussing..... > > You say Germany didn't exist until 1871. Well my grgrandfather was born Aug > 1844 in Baden, Hessen Nassau, Germany, so where does this leave him!!! > > Sallie Lou Morris Nelson > San Benito TX via Logansport/Deacon IN > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Phil Stevens" <bstevens27@frontier.com> > To: <roots@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 1:19 PM > Subject: [ROOTS-L] Niederlosheim Losheim am See, Merzig-Wadern, > Saarland,Germany , a ? > > >> Hello Rooters  , gotta question for you today  ,  I believe that the use >> of >> " Germany " in the subect place is in error , As  Ggermany did not exist >> until 1871  ,  So to include it in a database would be dumb  ??  ,  Phil > > ===== > If you would prefer digest mode to mail mode, drop a note to roots-admin@rootsweb.com and ask for the digest... > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Okay, point taken but as someone who has been guilty of being insensitive in the past, just think we need to be careful how we phrase things on the web. Barton On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Nivard Ovington wrote: > Absolutely agree Barton but much depends on the usage of dumb > > I think its just a term used by Phil and not meant in a malicious way > > Some words have more force or carry more weight when read literally > but I don't believe it was intended that way > > A better way might have been to say it was incorrect > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > On 07/06/2012 21:32, BARTON LEWIS wrote: >> "Generally we should be thinking and recording how things were at the >> time they happened rather than in todays terms" >> >> I agree, but Phil's assertion that it would be "dumb" to state that >> Sallie's ancestor was born in Germany in 1844 is inappropriate. >> There's >> a polite way to point out such information, and that is not it. >> >> Barton