Let me offer something I've learned about Dutch naming patterns (I have a lot of recent Dutch immigrants on my father's side, and have researched Dutch records in Holland from the 1870's back to the mid 1600's): Usually (but NOT always) the first son is named for the paternal grandfather the second son is named for the maternal grandfather the third son is named for the father the first daughter is named for the paternal grandmother the second daughter is named for the maternal grandmother the third daughter is named for the mother. Of course, there were instances when these "traditions" were not followed. As an example, say a man named Jan Hendriks vanAken (son of a Hendrik Pieterse vanAken) names his first son. He could name him Hendrik Janse vanAken (taking the patronymic using his first name) or he could give him the FULL patronymic name of the paternal grandfather (in this case, Henrik Pieterse vanAken). I think this happened in our ROLL family. John ROLL (the one who moved to NJ with wife, Elizabeth), is often called Jan Mangelse ROLL. Well, his father was Pieter Janse ROLL, so one would think that the son would be Jan Pieterse ROLL, but he was named for the grandfather, using the grandfather's FULL patronymic - Jan MANGELSE. Does that make sense? Sometimes when I look at this stuff, it doesn't make sense to me, but after a while I finally kinda figured it out. The Dutch patronymic naming system is actually more confusing to me than my Norwegian ancestors! Because of the evidence that comes to life in the Deed mentioning Tryntje, I am extremely convinced that Volkie Janse must have been a confusion in interpreting the document containing her name. The evidence strongly points to her name being Tryntje Pieterse (possibly vanWoggelum) .... Pieter Adriaense's sons used vanWoggelum, but they also used that long "nickname" Schomegelack (or however it was spelled) and they used Pieterse. I am also curious as to whether anyone has followed up on a reference I saw saying that Jan Mangelse might have been from Haaren or Purmerend in Noord Holland (I've never researched that provice in the Netherlands, and am unfamiliar with their records). Most Dutch Reformed records in the Netherlands only seem to date back to the mid to late 1600's which is probably a bit too late for our immigrant Jan Mangelse, but some of his siblings and their families could be mentioned in the records. Michael VanBaaren [email protected] or [email protected]