Well, that gives me something to dig into when I go to Salt Lake City this Fall!! My VanBaaren ancestors are all from the city of Utrecht, and the Dutch Reformed records are all INDEXED back to the early to mid-1600's. I'll have to check the indexes for the patronymic Mangelse and see what I come up with. I also have a list of burgomasters and notaries in the city of Utrecht that dates back to the early 1600's (if I can just put my hands on it!). I will let all know if I find anything in any of these sources. Thanks, Bill. Michael