Frank and David, Thank you for sending the information on your family lines to the Roll list. Francis Sherman Roll came from what we on the list refer to as the Dutch line. (There are French, German and Swiss Roll/Rall, all spellings, researchers on the list.) When you have time, check out the url's in the tag lines at the bottom of each Roll message, most of them have the Dutch Rolls. (If anyone else has a web page, please let me know and I will put your url in a tag line.) We have data going back to Jan Mangels, also have information on Jan's wife and her family, the Van Woggelum's. David, I believe you mentioned an aunt did some research and also went back to Jan Mangels. I will post what I have at a later time and you can compare. We welcome corrections and additions. We do have a few differences that we cannot prove as yet, ie, the surname of the wife of John Roll (1708). We can prove his wife was named Elizabeth, but no one has further proof. We do have a couple of possible surnames. There is a VAN WOGGELUM surname list at Rootsweb, sponsored by Bill Roll (on our list). If you are interested in subscribing, send e-mail to VANWOGGELUM-L-request@rootsweb.com put subscribe in the body of the message, nothing else is needed. You can also join the digest version at VANWOGGELUM-D-request@rootsweb.com put subscribe in the body of the message, nothing else is needed. Nancy Lohbrunner lohbrunner@prodigy.net