David, when you have some time, could you post what you have on Jan Mangels down through John Roll (1708-1778)? Many people on the Roll list descend this line and it would be good to compare with what you fathers sister did. Most of us do have the same data, but there are a couple of differences. We have a difference in the surname of the wife of John Roll (1708-1778). We do know/proved that John's wife was named Elizabeth, but we can't find proof of her surname. Nancy Lohbrunner lohbrunner@prodigy.net