Dear Audrey, Janis, and Others, Congratulations, Audrey, on your Web site "The Roll Galleries" at <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~grannyapple/ROLL/ROLLGALLERIESHOME .html>, a significant contribution to Roll family genealogy. Recently, I have been attempting to discover the patronymic or surname, and parents of of Margrietje who married Johannes Mangelse Roll, Sr., the son of Jan Mangels and Tryntje Pieters Van Woggelum. The document "Diagram of the Second Edifice of the Reformed Dutch Church Staten Island, Port Richmond, NY. Built about 1714. Destroyed during the Revolutionary War." by Daniel Corsen in 1751 at <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~grannyapple/ROLL/Documents2.html> cought my eye. Thank you Audrey and Janis. I wonder what information is contained on the pages other than page 22 of this document. There are two other versions of Daniel Corsen's 1751 diagram that I have been working with. Both of these diagrams list in seat #74 a person who was possibly the Margrietje who married Johannes Mangelse Roll, Sr. At the time the map was made, Johannes was deceased, but it is possible that Margrietje was still living. One version is in "Staten Island Church Records" by Tobias Alexander Wright, on the flyleaf, and is a tracing of the original manuscript diagram. No tpset list is included. The name of the person in seat #74 is Magarite, but the surname is not clear. I make out Goovodo, but this is just a guess. The other version is in J. J. Clute's "Annals of Staten Island," pages 452-453. This version is typeset and includes a list. The name of the person in seat #74 is interpreted by Clute to be Magritie Gerrode. The Garrode interpretation does not jive with the manuscript name in Wright. The following is what I have so far. Name: Johannes Manglese ROLL Sr., 8G Uncle, 4605, M ---------------------------------------- Birth: bef 27 Jan 1686 Albany, Albany, NY Baptism: 27 Jan 1686 Albany, Albany, NY[1],[2] Baptism Memo: Reformed Protestant Dutch Church Death: 1747 Willow Brook, Richmond, NY[3] Age: 60 Father: Jan MANGELS, 22, M (~1635-<1705) Mother: Tryntje Pieters VAN WOGGELUM, 23, F (~1642-<1705) Marriage: abt 1706 ---------------------------------------- Spouse: Margrietje, 21, F ---------------------------------------- Birth: abt 1652 Other Spouses: Jan Harmensen VAN BARKELO, 734, M Children: ---------------------------------------- 1 M: Johannes ROLL Jr., 1C8R, 373, M Birth: abt 1707 Death: 2 Feb 1761 Bergen, Hudson, NJ[4],[5],[6] Age: 54 Burial: 4 Feb 1761 Constable's Hook, Hudson, NJ[7],[6] Age: 54 Spouse: Fytje VAN BUSKIRK, 2C8R, 375, F Marriage: 3 Nov 1738 Hakkinsack, -, NJ[8],[9],[10] Notes for Johannes Manglese ROLL Sr. Names: Johannes Manglese ROLL, John Johnsen Roll, Janse MANGLE, Yon RAL Source: Cuccinello, Karen, ed. Albany Church Records, 1683-1700 and Holland Society Yearbook, Member Death List, 1800's to 1904. [database on-line] Orem, UT: Ancestry, Inc., 1999. | 1686 Jan. 27. Johannes, of Jan Mangels. Wit.: Johannes Lansing. By Geertruy Lansing. [11][baptismal witnesses] LANSING, Johannes (son of Gerrit), merchant, m. in 1678, Geertie Goosense Van Schaick, widow of Hendrick Coster; naturalized in 1715; d. and was buried in the church, Feb. 26, 1728. Ch: Elizabeth, b. 1679, m. Stephanus Groesbeck, in 1699; Geertruy, bp. Nov. 2, 1684, m. Ryer Gerritse; Johannes, bp. Sept. 4, 1687; Engeltie, bp. Aug. 17, 1690; Gerrit (?); Abraham(?). Source: Letter. R. J. Franz. February 8, 1963. | Johannes Roll was baptized as the son of Jan Mangelsen in the Reformed Protestant Dutch Church, Albany, N.Y. on 1-27-1686, his sponsors being Geertruy Lansing and Johannes Lansing. He was one of the signers of the land petition presented by Mangle Jansen Roll in 1713 in which he is shown as John Johnsen Roll. Various evidence indicates that he left Canostigione, Albany County, N.Y. and settled in the Northern Division (now Port Richmond) Staten Island. "The Abriged Compendium of American Genealogy, Vol. I"; page 533. "First of this line to adopt the name Roll." Note by Harry Whal. Source: Holland, Janis, Bothell, WA, Mar 1998. [Here is the proof that Johannes Roll who married Margrietje, widow of Barkelo, had a son named John Roll, Jr. It is the first time a reference has been cited for this son. What is so interesting is Jannetje was an unwed mother and her stepfather certainly left her well off. I'd like to see the baptism record for Abraham Berkelau to see if the father was named. -Nancy Lohbrunner <lohbrunner@prodigy.net>] | These are notes by Clifford Roll, February 3, 1968: | County Clerk Office, St. George, Staten Island Deed - John Roll, Gent. To Daughter-in-law and her son, Abraham Berkelau, both of Richmond County. Dated July 9, 1745 Recorded Oct 2, 1745 Lib - D - P. 153 Consideration - Natural love and affection to the Grantees for their lives in fee tail with reversion to John Roll, Jr., Son of the Grantor. Land on North Side of Staten Island Adj. Land of Col. Jacob Corsen de Federick Birge. Beg in line between Federick Birge & Baltus Dehart. Thence S. E. to line between Sd Corsen & Sd Dehart. Thence along side line to limits of the Patent granted for said land at rear to another mark on S side run of water. Thence N 72 degrees W according to the Patent to line between Sd Dehart & Fred Birge. Thence along Sd line to beginning. Joins to NE Sd Baltus Dehart - SE to Sd Col. Jacob Corsen - Sw to wood lots - Nw to Sd Fredk Birge - Containing 30 Acres. Witnesses: Elizabeth Egberts - Daniel Corson Signed: Yon Ral | BILL OF SALE John Roll, Gent., to Dated - Over 12, 1745 Jannetje Berkelau, Stepdaughter Recorded July 3, 1749 Spinster [mother of a son] Book D - P. 215 Consideration - Love and affection Transfers negro slaves, cattle, horses, silver cup, fowling piece, pewter, linen, Etc. - Subject to life estate reserved by John Roll. | These notes all sent by Clifford Roll to Wilber L. Roll in the last year, 1959-1960, and your record to keep. Notes for Margrietje [2]John Roll married Grittie widow of Jan Harmensen Van Barkelo who had four daughters by her first marriage. She had only one child by John Roll, a son John, who married Fytje Van Buskirk. English-Dutch name and nickname equivalents: Gertrude = Geerje, Geertie, Geertje, Geertrui, Geertruida, Geertruyd, Trui, Truitje Margaret, Madge, Meg, Peggy, Peg = Griet, Grietje, Margit, Margriet, Margrietje [2]Wilson has "John Roll married Grittie widow of Jan Harmensen van Barkelo..." and "...John Ral of Staten Island, County of Richmond, Planter and his wife Grittue..." It appears that Grittie and Grittue are nicknames for Margaret. Sources 1. Collections of the History of Albany 146 2. Wilson, Richard Timbrook, "Genealogy of the Roll Family," manuscript, page 69. 3. Holland, Jan, hollandj@uonline.net, "Roll, Miller, Taylor," http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/, 4/5/00. 4. Year Book of the Holland Society of NY. Vol. 1915. Burials in Bergen. 45 no. 394. 5. Winfield, C.N. "History of Land Titles in Hudson County, N. J., 1609-1871." New York, 1872. page 61. 6. Shoemaker, Irene English, "Van Buskirk: A Legacy from New Amsterdam," 1990, Vol. I, pages 18, 20. 7. Year Book of the Holland Society of NY. Vol. 1915. Burials in Bergen. 45 8. Wilson, Richard Timbrook, "Genealogy of the Roll Family," manuscript, page 73. 9. Shoemaker, Irene English, "Van Buskirk: A Legacy from New Amsterdam," 1990, page 18. 10. "Yearbook of the Holland Society of New York, 1903." page 18. 11. "Collections on the History of Albany," Albany, NY: J. Munsell, 1871, page 139. ---------------------------------------- Last Modified: 18 Apr 2000 Created: 20 Apr 2000 ---------------------------------------- William Henry Roll william.roll@gte.net 12643 Hickory Road Blythe, CA 92225 Sincerely, William Henry Roll 12643 Hickory Road Blythe, CA 92225-2007, USA Telephone: 760.922.7181 Email address <william.roll@gte.net> The Roll Family Genealogy Windmill <http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~windmill/> The Sonora Genealogy Windmill <http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~windmill/sonora/> The Chihuahua Genealogy Windmill <http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~windmill/chihuahu/>