From the New Carlisle cemetery (from copies provided by Nancy), I have: Jacob Roll b. 8 Nov., 1761 d. 22 Sept., 1834 Sounds like your Jacob. Ed

Think I'll get in on the discussion of "Why Ohio?" Another reason why people from Essex/Union Co., NJ were some of the first to come into the OH Valley was because of Benjamin STITES and his influences on SYMMES who purchased the land known as the Miami Valley. Benjamin and his STITES family were from Westfield Twp., Essex/Union Co., NJ. He explored the land, then went back with the news of the rich fertile soil and convinced SYMMES to apply his influence from the government to purchase land. Benjamin hired John Reading MILLS as one of the surveyors. Benjamin married bigamously to Mary "Polly" MILLS, dau/o Wm. I & Amy MILLS of Westfield Twp. and took her to OH with him. For those of us who are descendants of Jacob & Elizabeth "Betsey" (MILLS) ROLL, Mary "Polly" (MILLS) STITES WOODRUFF was her sister, and their brother was also my Wm. II MILLS. Polly returned home after learning of Benjamin's lie, but did have two children by him. He already had a number of children by Rachel who was living in Redstone, PA. [Gossip of the day!! Benjamin writes to the newspapers saying she left his bed & board, and Polly responds with accusations that he brought to her parents' home in NJ a rotten nutmeg which almost killed her family!!!] John Reading MILLS' family was from Elizabethtown. His brother, Isaac MILLS, was a squatter in OH before the sale of land ca 1788. Isaac laid out the town of Elizabethtown, Hamilton Co., OH. Their parents were Rev. Wm. & Mary (READING) MILLS. This MILLS family also emigrated to the OH Valley. Relationship to our Wm. MILLS I is unknown. Haven't been able to find a connection....YET. Philemon Elmer MILLS laid out the town of Sharonville, Hamilton Co., OH. He was of Wm. & Amy's line. Recognize the Philemon name? He was related to Philemon ROLL, s/o Jacob & Elizabeth "Betsy" (MILLS) ROLL. Well, anyway, I shall end my epistle. From my research I believe many went to the OH Valley from Essex/Union Co., NJ because of STITES and the MILLS family. One person's opinion though. Audrey (MILLS/LEHMANN-CREAGER/SHIELDS) HANCOCK

Wow, Martha, Thanks for writing. I appreciate the feedback. #1 I questioned whether Jacob's second wife was dead or not by the time of the suit, because often times that is when people sue others...when there are no longer any close relatives to get results from, & she wasn't named in the suit. It was just a passing thought. #2 Thank you for clarifying the marriage place. #3 I wonder if the copy from which Charlotte copied was so light that it appeared as Polly instead of Sally. Need to look at the original ourselves. #4 What a story about Charlotte and her husband! So sad. Wonder what the maid had to get out of poisoning them. Well, talk later. Thanks again for your input. Audrey ---------- > From: Martha Roll <[email protected]> > To: Roll <[email protected]> > Subject: Attn: Audrey > Date: Monday, December 08, 1997 12:57 AM > > I have always had death date for Jacob Roll as 09/25/1834. I don't > know how long I have had this copy of the Will. I see on the end of page > 2, the note by CLG. I thought for a long time, that might be the initials > of a court clerk or someone in the office but tonight, I realized who that > is. It belongs to Charlotte L. Giltner of Grosse Pointe Woods, Michigan. > She was one of the researchers I worked with to compare data on the family. > I didn't even remember where it came from but she must be the one who sent > it to me. She is a Certified Genealogist and a stickler on details. She > always pointed out my mistakes. > I noticed this Polly Dunham in the Will and it also brought questions > to me because, in most of my records, Sarah is nicknamed Sally and Mary is > nicknamed Polly. However, on my page of Jacob & Elizabeth (Mills) Roll, > Sarah (Sally) (Polly) it is listed that way and I don't know if the "Polly" > was added after someone saw the Will or if it came that way by the original > researcher. > This Will was made on 08/26/1824 and at that time, the last 4 children > were considered minors since Betsey didn't marry until 1825. Jacob Roll, > evidently, gave his daughters a Dowry when they married. I wonder what the > end results of that lawsuit was. By the way, Betsey Roll married Conrad > Deel in Marion Co., Ohio. not Miami Co., Ohio. > Why do you ask if Nancy (Picket or Pecket) Roll was dead by 1837? I > have no birth or death date for her, only a marriage date. > There's an interesting story about Charlotte (Roll) Giltner. Her > husband was a senior partner in a law firm in Detroit, Michigan. They both > became very sick and hospitalized. Their son insisted on a reason and when > the tests were run, they found Arsenic Poisoning. It was too late, his dad > died from it and Charlotte spent an extended amount of time in the hospital > and then to a nursing home. She was still in recovery a few years ago, the > last time I heard from her. She was at home in the early 1980's but still > used a cane and walker to get around. Arsenic must take a long time to > leave the system and probably did permanent damage. Her maid did go to > prison but I don't remember Charlotte ever writing about how much time the > maid got or what her reasons were for doing it. > I just noticed on the P. 9 that I sent to you, I did have it that > Betsey Roll married Conrad Deel in Miami Co., Ohio. I am so sorry, that > should have been Marion Co., Ohio. and that is my mistake. Another one of > my typos. > I am so glad to have that Will sent. I came real close to writing to > all of you and asking you to send you Snail Mail addresses, because I know > how to get a copy made a stick it into a manila envelope. Everytime I > think I have it down and can do it again, something goes wrong and I get > more gray hair. Even the old computers do things they aren't supposed to > do sometimes. Maybe someday, I learn to use this one. > Martha

I have crossed this path for more than 20 years and really don't know how it should be yet. I use the name Roll and pronounced that way. People from the same family lines use the name Roll and pronounced Rall. I can't say either way is wrong but it is that way in most of my notebooks. Some pronounce it Roll and some Rall. The N.J. notebook is that way, the Penn. notebook is that way. The Switzerland notebook is that way. Probably, the not connected notebook is that way. In almost every letter, I was asked how we pronounced the name. I suppose if it was different from their way, they thought we were from a different line. However, I have proved that in the research, it all runs together no matter how the name is pronounced. The Kansas information, it could be from any of the lines, N.J., Penn., Switzerland, or those who might have come later. They were all in Kansas. I didn't just do research on the N.J. line or the Penn. line or the Switzerland line. I have tried to keep records on anyone with the Roll name. Just a few years ago, 2 brothers and 2 sisters came to Tenn. from Southern Indiana to visit. I sent them some pages on their line of the Penn. Family. One of the men brought a camera. When the visit was finished, he told me that he brought the camera to take some pictures of my pages but when he saw all the notebooks, he didn't mention taking a picture. Their family has a Reunion every year and I sent them a full copy of the Penn. Family. I still hear from them every Christmas and they usually send the information on the new marriages and new babies for that year. When I still lived in Indiana, two brothers and their wives came down from Wisconsin to visit. All the way, they looked for names on mailboxes because they had never run into anyone with the name of Roll other than their own family. Their line came in later. Another Roll called that he had was a Jeweler and had been to Switzerland and stayed at a Hotel there. He was not allowed to pay for anything because his name was Roll and the owners were named Roll. He was invited to their home for dinner and was given a Photo Roll of their Genealogy which he promised to send a copy and never did. I hope the Roll Rootsweb is for everyone no matter where you fall in. I think it is since Nancy and some of the others have tried to help Ron and Dot with their research. There is also a Roll, Arizona. I don't know if we have Archived yet and I don't want to tell that if we have. Martha

I have always had death date for Jacob Roll as 09/25/1834. I don't know how long I have had this copy of the Will. I see on the end of page 2, the note by CLG. I thought for a long time, that might be the initials of a court clerk or someone in the office but tonight, I realized who that is. It belongs to Charlotte L. Giltner of Grosse Pointe Woods, Michigan. She was one of the researchers I worked with to compare data on the family. I didn't even remember where it came from but she must be the one who sent it to me. She is a Certified Genealogist and a stickler on details. She always pointed out my mistakes. I noticed this Polly Dunham in the Will and it also brought questions to me because, in most of my records, Sarah is nicknamed Sally and Mary is nicknamed Polly. However, on my page of Jacob & Elizabeth (Mills) Roll, Sarah (Sally) (Polly) it is listed that way and I don't know if the "Polly" was added after someone saw the Will or if it came that way by the original researcher. This Will was made on 08/26/1824 and at that time, the last 4 children were considered minors since Betsey didn't marry until 1825. Jacob Roll, evidently, gave his daughters a Dowry when they married. I wonder what the end results of that lawsuit was. By the way, Betsey Roll married Conrad Deel in Marion Co., Ohio. not Miami Co., Ohio. Why do you ask if Nancy (Picket or Pecket) Roll was dead by 1837? I have no birth or death date for her, only a marriage date. There's an interesting story about Charlotte (Roll) Giltner. Her husband was a senior partner in a law firm in Detroit, Michigan. They both became very sick and hospitalized. Their son insisted on a reason and when the tests were run, they found Arsenic Poisoning. It was too late, his dad died from it and Charlotte spent an extended amount of time in the hospital and then to a nursing home. She was still in recovery a few years ago, the last time I heard from her. She was at home in the early 1980's but still used a cane and walker to get around. Arsenic must take a long time to leave the system and probably did permanent damage. Her maid did go to prison but I don't remember Charlotte ever writing about how much time the maid got or what her reasons were for doing it. I just noticed on the P. 9 that I sent to you, I did have it that Betsey Roll married Conrad Deel in Miami Co., Ohio. I am so sorry, that should have been Marion Co., Ohio. and that is my mistake. Another one of my typos. I am so glad to have that Will sent. I came real close to writing to all of you and asking you to send you Snail Mail addresses, because I know how to get a copy made a stick it into a manila envelope. Everytime I think I have it down and can do it again, something goes wrong and I get more gray hair. Even the old computers do things they aren't supposed to do sometimes. Maybe someday, I learn to use this one. Martha

This is a forward for all AOL members. Don't know if this will help any of you, but am forwarding it just in case it might explain any problems. Nancy << Start of Forwarded message via Prodigy Mail >> From: RobinS1952 Subject: Fwd: TECHNICAL QUESTION Date: 12/08 Time: 01:07 AM Return-Path: <[email protected]> Received: from fp-1.rootsweb.com (fp-1.rootsweb.com [207.113.233. 233]) by pimaia3w.prodigy.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA65900; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 01:05:04 -0500 Received: (from [email protected]) by fp-1.rootsweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA00377; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 21:46:07 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 21:46:07 -0800 (PST) From: RobinS1952 <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 00:51:03 EST To: [email protected] Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Fwd: TECHNICAL QUESTION Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_881560264_boundary" Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Resent-Message-ID: <"WSTpuC.A.zwG.pj4i0"@fp-1.rootsweb.com> Resent-From: [email protected] X-Mailing-List: <[email protected]> archive/latest/3687 X-Loop: [email protected] Precedence: list Resent-Sender: [email protected] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_881560264_boundary Content-ID: <[email protected]_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII To all listowners: I recently requested some info from AOL regarding a problem I was having. Their reply answers the debate that has been going on here about how AOL deals with mailing list digests-or any files over 25K. You could forward this message to all your listmembers that are having AOL problems with the digest. This should stop some of the AOL namecalling. Hope this helps.( Good detective work by George.) Robin - POLK listowner " I am writing to you on behalf of America Online to answer your recent question/comments. The ability to attach a file to Internet e-mail has been one of the most requested features on America Online, and the vast majority of our members are very happy with the new service. If you have received an e-mail message that exceeds 25K, only the first 2K of the text will appear in the body of the e-mail message. Any additional text will be converted to a text file attachment that you can download immediately or via a flashsession. These documents, including mailing list digests, can no longer be read within the America Online application. A word processor or text editor can be used to view these files once they have been downloaded. We apologize for this inconvenience this may cause. Thank you for using America Online. If you have any further questions or comments, please feel free to email us anytime. Stephen B. Technical Services Representative America Online, Inc. --part0_881560264_boundary Content-ID: <[email protected]_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: <[email protected]> Received: from relay12.mail.aol.com (relay12.mail.aol.com [172.31. 109.12]) by air09.mail.aol.com (v36.0) with SMTP; Sat, 06 Dec 1997 02:13:41 - 0500 Received: from boorda.office.aol.com (boorda.office.aol.com [152.163. 7.80]) by relay12.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id TAA10341 for <[email protected]>; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:24:54 -0500 (EST) From: [email protected] Received: (from [email protected]) by boorda.office.aol.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA04096 for [email protected]; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:24:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:24:54 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re:TECHNICAL QUESTION X-Mailer: TechMail 3.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_881560264_boundary" --part1_881560264_boundary Content-ID: <[email protected]_out.mail.aol.com.3> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII How many emails did we send them? Love, K. --part1_881560264_boundary Content-ID: <[email protected]_out.mail.aol.com.4> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: <[email protected]> Received: from relay12.mail.aol.com (relay12.mail.aol.com [172.31. 109.12]) by air09.mail.aol.com (v36.0) with SMTP; Sat, 06 Dec 1997 02:13:41 - 0500 Received: from boorda.office.aol.com (boorda.office.aol.com [152.163. 7.80]) by relay12.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id TAA10341 for <[email protected]>; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:24:54 -0500 (EST) From: [email protected] Received: (from [email protected]) by boorda.office.aol.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA04096 for [email protected]; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:24:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:24:54 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re:TECHNICAL QUESTION X-Mailer: TechMail 3.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear kparis7013, I am writing to you on behalf of America Online to answer your recent question/comments. The ability to attach a file to Internet e-mail has been one of the most requested features on America Online, and the vast majority of our members are very happy with the new service. If you have received an e-mail message that exceeds 25K, only the first 2K of the text will appear in the body of the e-mail message. Any additional text will be converted to a text file attachment that you can download immediately or via a flashsession. These documents, including mailing list digests, can no longer be read within the America Online application. A word processor or text editor can be used to view these files once they have been downloaded. We apologize for this inconvenience this may cause. Thank you for using America Online. If you have any further questions or comments, please feel free to email us anytime. Stephen B. Technical Services Representative America Online, Inc. ------------------------- I have had several people send me file attachments as WAV or GIF files. For some reason the download manger is converting them to text files. How do I correct this? Thnak --part1_881560264_boundary-- --part0_881560264_boundary-- << End of Forwarded message >>

The date of Jacob's death that was given by someone was 24 Oct 1834, but if his will was probated 2nd Oct 1834, then he would have died prior to that. Another source says he died 25 Sep 1834. The September date makes more sense. What do you others have? I wonder why the other children weren't mentioned, nor given property or money, unless their portion would come from their mother at her death. I wonder if Nancy, 2nd wife, was dead by 1837. I note that his son John by Nancy died a little over a month after his father. Lots of wondering going on here. Audrey

Nancy, When you sent the information through on the petition for partition you did not state the T #. Was it 3 as mentioned in the will? It would be interesting to know which part of the sections they are talking about in the will. The partition mentions NW7. I don't see that mentioned in Jacob's will. Possibly this was land already given to Aaron which is being contested. Need to look at land records. Martha, I don't understand why Sarah, wife of Ross Dunham, is called Polly Dunham in the will. I have always seen her called Sarah or Sally. I wonder if that was a typo by the transcribest who sent the will to you, Martha. Audrey

Dot: The following in part was sent to me, I don't know if this is the correct family, but the area, time and name (Ralph Roll) is right. Hope this does help. The ROLL list is for all Roll/Rall family lines. Most of us are researching an early Dutch family, but we were also corresponding with each other before this list was started. Hopefully, new subscribers will find our list with data about other Roll lines. Good luck from very wet So. Calif. Nancy ----------------------------------------------------------- Prodigy Mail: Personal Message 12/07/1997 ------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Gayle" Subject: ROLL FAMILY PECK, KS Sent On: 12/06 09:30 PM ET Hi! Hope this will get your gal started. Heinrich (Henry) and Frederika (Plaetz) Roll immigrated from Prussia in 1856, to WI where German friends lived. Mr. Roll was a cobbler by trade. In 1872 they homesteaded near Peck. Six children were (A), who was 7 when they came to America) America, Henry, Ralph, Charles, William (B) and Anna Goldsmith (C). (A) Gustave married Anna Trippensee whose family came at the same time--and after she died he married May Grantz. Gus and Anna's children were Ida and William, both died young, Dora(D)) (Callaway) Walter, Louis, and (E). (B) Gustave's brother William owned the grocery store in Peck. (C)Anna Roll above married Louis Goldsmith and adopted one daughter named Hazel. (D) Dora Roll married Walt Callaway (E) Daisy Roll married Edward "Ned" Calloway I know one of the Calloway ladies. She is a close friend of my mothers. She has done some genealogy. However, I think her eye sight is bad at this time. My mother is in a rest home away from Peck, so I can't get down to find out. She is Mrs. Gerald (Pauline) Calloway. Her sons could talk to her and perhaps if you write to them, they can help you with information.

RONANDDOT wrote: > > Thanks, Nancy! I have posted a query re Ralph Roll and family in Sumner Co, > KS., but have not gotten any response to date. Didn't realize that Rolls in > Kansas had two different sources! Have found out from older members of the > family in OK that this family has always pronounced their name "RALL" even > though they spelled it :"ROLL". Am enjoying all the activity on the list - > hope to be able to make a contribution soon! Thanks again. Dot Ron & Dot: Have been reading your inquiries regarding the Rall/Roll's in Sumner County Kansas. I was born and raised in Sumner County. My father was: Lloyd L. Roll, his father; George Washington Roll. I have four brothers: Richard, Dale, Robert & Donald. None of us have lived in the Sumner County area in years. Our name was pronounced ROLL, not Rall. However when I was growing up I remember hearing of a family of Roll's around Conway Springs, Mayfield, or somewhere in the area (may have been Peck), that spelled their name the same as ours, but prounounced it RALL. I'm afraid I can't be of any furhter help on it as never met the people and hadn't thought of the coincidence in year until your inquiry. But just in case you get some information back from Sumner County that might contain references to my family I thought I should let you know. Sorry can't be more assistance. Betty (Roll) Holt Tulsa, OK

Hello, You need to come to this side of the bay and go to the Largo Public Library. They have a Geneology section setup with Computers and most of the CD's for the people trying to find family members. These will give you a better start before surfing the net. They also have many records on cenuses, deaths,and social security numbers. They also have a current phone listing that you can search for current families, but the Dunedin Public Library has a better phone listing setup , but no computers for geneology. Goob Luck Kathy [email protected]

Kathy, I appreciate your input re the Pinellas Co libraries - I have downloaded your file and will check it shortly. Just wanted you to know right away that I relish all suggestions! Thanks again, Dot

Bill, Ron and I are astounded! Yes, AOL has been giving us all fits this last week! It took 7 1/2 hrs to get an e-mail from another server from Orlando to Tampa (80 mi)! We can't thank you enough for the wonderful info you have shared - this opens up a hugh new world to explore! Can't wait to dig into each of these references, and will keep the group advised as we go along. Sounds like our "ROLL" line, pronounced "RALL" may be totally different from any of the ones your group is researching. Is there anyone else who recognizes this line? would love to hear from you. And again, Bill, our sincere appreciation for taking your time to help us. Ron and Dot

Thanks, Nancy! I have posted a query re Ralph Roll and family in Sumner Co, KS., but have not gotten any response to date. Didn't realize that Rolls in Kansas had two different sources! Have found out from older members of the family in OK that this family has always pronounced their name "RALL" even though they spelled it :"ROLL". Am enjoying all the activity on the list - hope to be able to make a contribution soon! Thanks again. Dot

I checked the reference in FTM World Family Tree for you - I don't think it's anything. The Frieda Roll listed was born c.1905 to 1925 and died c. 1930 to 1996, she was married to George Gokel and apparently lived most of her life in the area of Orchard Knob, Missouri. There is also no listing for any of her ancestors in this tree. I've found the family finder to be very inaccurate when it "finds" a possible match, sometimes it seems to grasp at the slightrest of straws. Ed

I have vol.4 but not 7. Family Tree Maker CD. It shows 3402: WILLIAM ROLL M. CLAIRE SMITH b. 04/09/1909 Kansas d. 11/02/1937 Kansas Their Children 1. FRANCES 2. RALPH 3. ARDETH No Parents for William but Parents of Claire Smith were: FRANK SMITH M. MAUD WATTS b. b. 04/21/1872 Havensville, Ks. d. abt. 03/26/1940 Kansas d. 08/26/1940 Kansas No Parents for Frank Smith but Parents of Maud Watts were: JOSEPH HIRAM WATTS M. LUCY SHOVE b. Windsor, England b. 12/26/1836 Horley, Surrey, England d. 12/13/1914 Havensville, Kansas d. 03/02/1919 Havensville, Kansas If this is it, it gives the list of children for Frank & Maud (Watts) Smith. It also gives the list of children for Joseph Hiram & Lucy (Shove) Watts. It goes back one more generation on each of these last two. Nothing back on William Roll and nothing forward on the 3 children of William & Claire (Smith) Roll. Not much help on the Roll Line. I've checked the notebooks and still can't find a William Roll married Claire Smith. Martha

Hi: Have not found much, but have learned there is a Peck, KS History, published about 1887. There is some information about the ROLL family in it. Hopefully, someone will send me the information. Doesn't look like Sumner Co has a Hist Soc or Gen Soc. Have you posted anything on Genweb for Sumner Co? If not you might want to try that. If your Roll's are not part of the Dutch line who go to Kansas, they are probably German and probably came in the late 1800's. Just would have to find the point of entry. Good luck, will keep in touch. Nancy

Dear Members of the Roll List, I've tried several times this evening to send a message to Ron and Dot about Ralph ROLL. Each time the internet has rejected the messages. It says, "Reason: Illegal address specified as host: aol.com" Well, aol.com is not an illegal address. America Online must be down, again. I hope they get the message. It's important. -Bill _________________________________________________________________ William Henry Roll Blythe, California [email protected] The Roll Family Genealogy Windmill http://members.aol.com/whroll The genealogy of the ROLL, MANGEL and VAN WOGGELUM families "A thousand candles have burned themselves out; yet I read on."

At 10:25 PM 11-25-1997 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, everyone! My husband, Ronald L. Duncan, and myself (Dot) have just >joined the Roll mailing list. As this is a distaff side, we are just >beginning our research. We are impressed by the activity and enthusiasm of >all the participants and hope that we will be able to contribute something in >the very near future. So far, we have: > Frieda Malissa Roll, b 17 Jun 1903 in Peck, Sumner Co, KS m. Berna O. >SNIDER, b. 18 Dec 1902 in Fairgrove, Greene Co. MO, Frieda died 19 Nov 1978 >and is buried at Arapaho Cemetery, Arapaho, OK. Berna died 05 Sept 1979 in >Norman, Cleveland Co, OK and is also buried in Arapaho Cemetery. We don't >have an exact wedding date yet. The Sniders had ten children. > Parents of Frieda are RALPH ROLL, b. abt 1860 in MO,and JESSIE J. >(SURNAME UNKNOWN), B. ABT 1881 IN kANSAS. > Any info you would be willing to share to help us in our quest to link >to to your family lines would certainly be appreciated. Thanks for allowing >us to join your group. Ron and Dot Duncan, Tampa, Florida > Dear Ron and Dot, Do you have a web browser, i.e. Netscape or Internet Explorer? I found references to Frieda and Ralph on Family Tree Maker's World Family Tree CD ROMS. I don't have these, maybe you can find someone who has them. Roll, Frieda. 1850-1949. World Family Tree: Volume 7, Tree: 3961 (The dates are not necessarily birth and death dates.) Roll, Ralph. World Family Tree: Volume 4, Tree: 3402 ----- But, more importantly, I found... Elizabeth Melissa Jane WEBBER BIRTH: 27 Nov 1849, Fawn River, MI DEATH: 3 Apr 1931, Wichita, KS BURIAL: Clearwater, KS Family 1: Eligah Hamilton DEWATER MARRIAGE: 1867 1.Anna Bell DEWATER 2.Ezra Eligah DEWATER 3.Cora Ellen DEWATER 4.Ella Mae DEWATER 5.Bertha Anne DEWATER 6.Eula Jane DEWATER 7.Myrtle Ethel DEWATER 8.Jessie Irean DEWATER <-------------------- 9.Livera Irean DEWATER 10.Elma Irean DEWATER 11.Elmer Irean DEWATER 12.Charles Curtis DEWATER 13.Carrie Elizabeth DEWATER 14.Phillip Ola DEWATER 15.William Lauerence DEWATER __ __| | |__ __| | | __ | |__| | |__ | |--Elizabeth Melissa Jane WEBBER | | __ | __| | | |__ |__| | __ |__| |__ ----- Jessie Irean DEWATER BIRTH: 29 Jan 1881 Father: Eligah Hamilton DEWATER Mother: Elizabeth Melissa Jane WEBBER Family 1: Ralph ROLL _Amos DRINKWATER _ _Elijah DEWATER __| | |_Nancy ___________ _Eligah Hamilton DEWATER _______| | | __________________ | |_Mary Ann ZELUFF _| | |__________________ | |--Jessie Irean DEWATER | | __________________ | __________________| | | |__________________ |_Elizabeth Melissa Jane WEBBER _| | __________________ |__________________| |__________________ ----- I found this information at a web site named Our Heritage at... http://www.ourheritage.tierranet.com/ancestor.html Look under Group Two, Individual Sub-Index. The following URL will take you right to Ralph Roll, but the URL can be changes anytime they update their database: http://www.ourheritage.tierranet.com/grouptwo/d0002/g0000060.html#I05134 ----- You will also find Ralph Roll/Jessie Irean DEWATER at The Weymouth Home Page at... http://www.tiac.net/users/weymouth/ The following URL will take you right to Ralph Roll, but the URL can be changes anytime they update their database: http://www.tiac.net/users/weymouth/Html/fam04347.htm I am aware that there was a Ralph Roll who married one of the Mayflower descendants. There is a link to a Mayflower descendants database at the Weymouth home page. I suspect that Ralph was of British descent, but I could be wrong. ----- I found this pedigree chart at Scott McGee's site (look for Mayflower database on this home pate at... http://www.genealogy.org/~smcgee/genweb/genweb.html Jessie Irean Dewater - Pedigree Chart Samuel DRINKWATER, b. 1744, CT Amos DRINKWATER, b. 1772, ,,NY Olive GRAY Elijah DEWATER, b. 16 JUL 1804, Marcellus,Onondaga,NY Nancy Eligah Hamilton DEWATER, b. 29 JUN 1848, Fawn River,MI Mary Ann ZELUFF, b. 1810 Jessie Irean DEWATER, b. 29 JAN 1881 Elizabeth Melissa Jane WEBBER, b. 27 NOV 1849, Fawn River,MI -Bill _________________________________________________________________ William Henry Roll Blythe, California [email protected] The Roll Family Genealogy Windmill http://members.aol.com/whroll The genealogy of the ROLL, MANGEL and VAN WOGGELUM families "A thousand candles have burned themselves out; yet I read on."

Unless Volkie Janse took the FULL patronymic from her grandmother (and we know Pieter Adriansen's mother was Anneke Pieterse, so it would have to have been her maternal grandmother), it would be impossible for the daughter of Pieter Adriaensen to have been named Volkie Janse. She'd have to be Volkie Pieterse or Adriaensen. I accept the Tryntje Pieterse theory much more, based mostly on the name alone. Maybe it was Volkie Pieterse or Adriaensen?? I don't recognize the name of the book you mentioned. I'll see what I can find at the library on my next visit. ---------- > From: MRS NANCY N LOHBRUNNER <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: ROLL > Date: Wednesday, October 22, 1997 10:17 PM > > -- [ From: Nancy Lohbrunner * EMC.Ver #2.5.3 ] -- > > Does anyone have a copy the page (204 or 210) of Vol. 32 of AMERICAN > GENEALOGICAL VOLUME? (I have a copy of a typed paper, seven pages from > the WESTFIELD, NJ library. The name of the book does not sound correct.) > It is susposed to show Volkie Janse as the wife of Jan Mangelese. > > "VOLKIE JANSE was the daughter of Pieter Adriaensen van Woggelum and the > daughter of a Mohawk Indian Chief. In all records, she was listed only > as 'wife of Pieter Adriaensen'." > > I wonder if these seven pages were from the writtings of Thelma Lynn > (Roll) Kennedy and Mrs. Charles (Martha) Roll? > > Did I ever send out the exerpt for the land transfer of Jan Mangelse and > wife Tryntje to their son Pieter? > > Nancy