Dear Members of the Roll List, I mentioned in a previous message that I now have my SHIPMAN line, just got it last week, back to the 16th century. A brief direct line is displayed on my web page. http://members.aol.com/whroll I have a GEDCOM with 500 Shipman names. If you are in that line, William Henry ROLL/Sarah Virginia SHIPMAN, let me know and I will share. This week I found my entire SCHOLEY/SCHOOLEY line back to the 16th century. This is not a GEDCOM, but I have it in an Adobe Acrobat .PDF file and in scattered notes. I will share the file if you are in that line. Wesley Roll/Anne Brotherton Smith Jonathan Smith/Elizabeth Brotherton James Brotherton/Alice Schooley William Scholely/Elizabeth French Thomas Scholey/Sarah Parker John Scholey/Elizabeth Fletcher Richard Scholey II/----- Richard Scholey I/----- Probably all on this list were Quakers. I am currently looking for the SMITH line. Currently all I have is Eliakim Smith/----- Jonathan Smith/Elizabeth Brotherton Wesley Roll/Anne Brotherton Smith Sincerely, William Henry Roll [email protected] _________________________________________________________________ William Henry Roll Blythe, California [email protected] The Roll Family Genealogy Windmill http://members.aol.com/whroll "A thousand candles have burned themselves out; yet I read on."

Hansel has made you all a very generous offer. It is over 20 years of research and in my opinion, it's the most you'll ever get for $15. It probably won't be in the same format that I have been sending pages of this research but it will be all there. I have a little more than he mentioned but not a lot. I will be glad to fill in what else I do have on it. The price he asked won't hardly cover the postage. It will save all the researchers a lot of time by not having to cover what we have already done. I tried to make notations for anyone who needed documentation that it would be easier for them to do that. With Hansel's offer and Betty's work on the Penn. Family, all I have to do is check out what you don't have and send it. The Switzerland Family is a small notebook but the not-connected is quite large and I hope a lot of that can be connected. I hope you all get this information from Hansel and I thank Hansel for offering it for such a low price. Martha

I have just completed the retyping of the 'New Jersey Rolls' as Martha and Thelma had it back in the 80's. I am sure they have added a lot of new material that I do not have, and I may have added some new material as well. I prepared it using Wordstar7. I will provide it on disk to anyone who would be interested. In hard copy, it is a little more difficult. There are right now 576 pages (288 double sided pages) of Family Group Sheets. And probably about 100 pages of magazine articles etc of interest. It also has 27 pages of indexed names. If anyone would like this in hard copy, I will provide it if you are willing to help in the cost - Family Group Sheets & Index--------------------5.00 The above punched and in 3 ring binder--------10.00 The above including the 100 pages of articles-15.00 Sorry to be mercenary about it. Hansel L Haycox

At 11:50 AM 02-04-1998 -0500, you wrote: >I have just completed the retyping of the 'New Jersey Rolls' as Martha and >Thelma had it back in the 80's. I am sure they have added a lot of new >material that I do not have, and I may have added some new material as well. > >I prepared it using Wordstar7. I will provide it on disk to anyone who >would be interested. > >In hard copy, it is a little more difficult. There are right now 576 pages >(288 double sided pages) of Family Group Sheets. And probably about 100 >pages of magazine articles etc of interest. It also has 27 pages of indexed >names. If anyone would like this in hard copy, I will provide it if you are >willing to help in the cost - > Family Group Sheets & Index--------------------5.00 > The above punched and in 3 ring binder--------10.00 > The above including the 100 pages of articles-15.00 > >Sorry to be mercenary about it. > >Hansel L Haycox > Dear Hensel, No apology needed. Your prices are practically free, considering the content. But I do need your address, so I may send the fifteen dollars. I don't know how to deal with a Wordstar7 file, having only Microsoft Word 6.0, so I would go for the last option with the @100 pages of articles. Thank you for providing the opportunity. Sincerely, William Henry Roll [email protected] _________________________________________________________________ William Henry Roll Blythe, California [email protected] The Roll Family Genealogy Windmill http://members.aol.com/whroll "A thousand candles have burned themselves out; yet I read on."

I am still corresponding with Barbara Barth who is writing the Van Woggelum and Jan Mangelse articles for the NY B & G. Her editor is running another of her article's in the March edition instead of the Van Woggelum one. The Van Woggelum article is finished, but they want to run them consecutively and she wants to do more research on Jan Mangelse. There are several items that I am unsure of and she thinks she has the correct line. She is going to use STRICKHAUSER surname for Elizabeth, her editor said she should use circumstantial evidence, being the descendants names. I believe she will research this further. SHE IS NOT OF JAN MANGELSE's LINE, but is researching it for the article. I would like your input on the following which I received yesterday. I have not been able to find anything definite on this line myself, but I have seen what others have found. I truly dislike having an article printed for other researchers to read and use as gospel when it has not been documented. Barbara wrote, "Note, this John Roll, of Richmond Co., (Staten Island) was the one who married Fytie Van Buskirk. Their daughter Fytie married Jacob Mersereau (Masero in the SI record when their daughter Maryetie was baptized, named for Jacob's mother, Maryetie Corson). Does this convince you that this was the line of Johannes Roll and Margrietje, widow of Jan Harmensen Van Barkelo?" Now I always thought, not proved that this John was the son John Roll and Aaltje Bas and grandson of Mangel Janse Roll and Anna Volkerts. But am leaning toward the notion that John grandson of Mangel Janse was the John Roll who ended up in Rye, Westchester Co, NY. As to the line of Johannes Janse Roll and Margrietje, IF they did have a son John Roll, it would make sense if he was the one who married Mary Nevius as Margrietje had ties to them and one of her daughters also went to the same county in PA as John Roll and Mary Nevius. Also at the same time there was a JOHN JACOB ROLL, can't remember now who he married. "Jacob" is odd for this family this early. Does anyone have anything about him? I would appreciate any and all ideas to pass on to Barbara. Nancy

------------------------------------------------------------ Prodigy Mail: Personal Message 02/02/1998 ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Hansel L Haycox Subject: Who is D. Brown Roll? Sent On: 02/01 02:41 PM ET The following obituary appeared in the Clarion News, Corydon, IN on Jan 7 1998 ==== TERRY ROLL Terry Schafer Roll, 75, Floyds Knobs, died Wednesday, Dec 31, at Floyd Memorial Hospital and Health Services in New Albany. A native of Charlestown, born Oct 17, 1922, she was the daughter of the late John and DMagdelina Toby Schafer. She was a secretary and bookkeeper for Rollo Construction Co, a member of Bonita Springs (Fla) Presbyterian Church and AARP and past vice president of the Parent Teacher Association at Butler High School in Louisville. Survivors include her husband, D. Brown Roll, a son, Richard L Roll of Bonita Springs, Fla, two daughters, Beverly D Roll of Clarksville and Diane R Kiesel of Louisville; two sisters, Margaret Davison of Bonita Springs and Helen Renn of Sellersburg; four grandchildren and two great-grandchildren. A memorial service will be held at a later date. The body will be cremated. Scott Funderal Home in Jeffersonville is handling the arrangements. The family suggests memorial gifts to the American Cancer Society. ========== I found an address for the son, Richard L Roll and dau Beverly D Roll on the internet, and wrote them. The letter to Richard was returned and have not had an answer from the dau Beverly. If anyone has any information on how this family fits in (if it does), I would appreciate your sharing it with me. Hansel L Haycox

------------------------------------------------------------ Prodigy Mail: Personal Message 02/02/1998 ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Hansel L Haycox Subject: Photos? Sent On: 02/01 02:40 PM ET Anyone know of any early photographs of our roll ancestors? I have one very fuzzy picture (think it was taken with an old Brownie) of Louisa May Totten Roll, Martha Eva Roll, Lula Catheline Wellman, and myself. If anyone has others, I would be willing to share in the cost of reproduction.. Hansel L Haycox

------------------------------------------------------------ Prodigy Mail: Personal Message 02/02/1998 ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Hansel L Haycox Subject: Who was Ray Roll? Sent On: 02/01 02:28 PM ET An item in the '50 years ago' column of the 'Clarion News' mentioned this: A 28 inch copperhead snake was killed by Harrison Mock and Ray Roll at Sycamore (IN) on Jan 21. This would have been 1938. Although I have a couple of Raymonds, neither seems to fit this Ray Roll. Any ideas? Hansel L Haycox

I am posting Hansel's messages for those who did not receive them. Nancy ------------------------------------------------------------ Prodigy Mail: Personal Message 02/02/1998 ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Hansel L Haycox Subject: Descent - Hansel L Haycox Sent On: 02/01 02:24 PM ET Someone asked me for my line of descent, so here goes - Hansel L Haycox, son of Lula Catheline Wellman (and Lyman Haycox), dau of Martha Eva Roll (and John Robert Wellman), dau of James Hudson Roll (and Louisa May Totten, son of William Alexander Roll (and Lucy Ann Elizabeth Ray Cummins), son of Joseph Roll (and Nancy Barnet), son of Jacob Roll (and Betsey Mills), son of Abraham Roll (and Mary Brooks), son of John Janzsen Roll (and Elizabeth Sickles), son of Johannes Pieter Roll (and Janniteje Duchene), son of Jan Mangelese & Volkie Janse Adriaensen Hope this helps you get me placed in any data you are keeping. Let me know if you need any more information. Hansel L Haycox

Son of Mangle Grandson of Jan Mangelson WILL OF JOHN ROLL OF TURTLE BAY, NEW YORK NEW YORK HISTORICAL SOCIETY (COLLECTION) 1894 ABSTRACT OF WILLS VOL. IV, p.12 In the name of God, Amen. I John ROLL of Turtle bay, in the out ward of New York, mariner, being sick. Leave to my son Mangle ROLL, five pounds in full of all demands as eldest son and heir. I leave to my wife Alida and to my children, Mangle ROLL and John ROLL, all of my estate when they are of age. My executors are to have full power to sell lands. My will is that my vessell be kept going for the better maintenance of my children if my wife and Isaac Bragaw, SR. of Newton, and John Carhart, of Rye, executors. Witnesses: Isaac Brackow, John Dyckman, Jacobus Kep. Proved 13 July 1744. Kathy [email protected]

Mangel Jansen ROLL 1st son Jan MANGELSON ABSTRACTS OF WILLS on file in the Surrogate's Office, City of New York Vol. III 1730 - 1744 with appendix and miscellaneous documents. p. 424 (liber 15, p. 193) In the name of God, Amen, August 16, 1732 I, Mangle Jansen ROLL, of Turtle Bay, in the out ward of New York, being sick. I leave to my son John ROLL, 25 pounds, in full of all claim as eldest son. All the rest of my estate to my wife, Anne ROLL, during her life or widowhood, and then to my children, John, Catharine, and Johanah. My daughter shall pay to her daughter, Susanah FORBES, 20 pounds. My executors are to sell all real estate. If my son John shall have a mind to purchase my house and lot of ground in New York, fronting the French Church, he shall have the preference. I make my wife Anne, and my son John, and my son-in-law Phillip Minthorne, and Samuel Beekman, executors. Witnesses, John Ten Broeck, H. De Myer, Jacob Janeway. Proved April 19, 1744. The wife Anne was then dead. (Note.-The house and lot in New York, "fronting the French Church," is now no. 23-25 Pine Street. -W.S.P.) (All the labor of preparing the abstracts has been done by Mr.. William S. Pelletreau.) Kathy [email protected]

Martha If you figure out why the scanned images seem to expand to fill all available space, I'd like to know the solution - I'm having the same problem. Ed

Hey Nancy, I am in Plain Text . I had a problem on my BOYD line also and that is when I changed it and I just checked it too. Kathy [email protected]

Hi Kathy: You sent out an e-mail to the list in HTML, when some people receive it their mail programs print garbage. I have been guilty of sending mail in HTML also until someone told me how to change it. This is for OUTLOOK EXPRESS (MS mail program). Go into TOOLS, click OPTIONS, click SEND, click PLAIN TEXT. Most e-mail lists will ask a person to send only in plain text, as not everyone has an MS mail program or is capable of reading HTML. Thanks, Nancy

In case you don't know, El Nino is paying most of California a visit. Rootsweb is in the mountains north of Los Angeles (off Interstate 5) They experienced a blackout during the night and that is why the mail through them took soooo long. They have some back up power, but not enough for all. Basically, Rootweb is not in business for profit, it is owned and run by a couple who do have outside jobs. When they have the money they up-grade their equipment and now extra generators are on their list. The area they are in is also prone to snow when the conditions are right. I am in Los Angeles County, about five miles from the beach and we are very wet, even had a small earthquake this AM. ____ Nancy Lohbrunner [email protected]

Hi Kathy: Some of us have copies or abstracts of the wills, but it is always good to compare others. Mine were sent to me by another researcher, so I would appreciate it if you could send yours to the list. Then I can double check mine for accuracy. Maybe some of the others do not have them, also it will eventually put them in Rootsweb archives. Thank you, Nancy

I don't remember getting anything through from Hansel. Would you please send again. Appreciate your sharing. Audrey ---------- > From: MRS NANCY N LOHBRUNNER <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: [ROLL-L] Did you get mail? > Date: Monday, February 02, 1998 2:04 PM > > One of our new 'cousins' Hansel Haycox sent out a few messages. > There was a problem and not all of you might have received them. If > you did not, let the Roll list know and maybe he can re-post them. > (Hansel, if you don't have them any longer, let me know and I will re- > post them.) > > > > ____ > Nancy Lohbrunner > [email protected]

Here is some more for you all to chew on. This is from "GENEALOGIES OF THE FIRST SETTLERS OF SCHENECTADY" MANGELSE Pieter, son of Jan of Albany, m. Jannetie Du Scheen. Ch. bp: Maria, Sept. 1, 1700; Fransyna, Oct. 18, 1702. From "GENEALOGIES OF THE FIRST SETTLERS OF ALBANY" MANGELSE, Jan, was in Beverwyck as early as 1657; his father-in-law was Pieter Adriaense Soegemackelyk. Ch: Johannes, bp. Jan. 27, 1686. I also have copies of two wills from the NEW YORK HISTORICAL SOCIETY. One is for Mangle Jansen ROLL and the other is for John ROLL of Turtle Bay, New York. They are short but it is late and I'm tired so if anyone wants them please let me know and I will get them out tomorrow night. Kathy [email protected]

I agree with Nancy's observations on the naming patterns. Nothing was set in stone, but there were "customs", and until I find something that disproves a particular family following the cultural custom, that is what I use as a guide. The Dutch in New Netherland did stay pretty much "old world" Dutch until the English forced them to conform to English ways/names. Some people could end up with several surnames this way (patronymic, nickname, locality surname, etc.) which makes researching such fun (or is that frustrating?!). It's a similar problem with my Norwegians -- they have patronymic surnames, but they also have "farm names" taken from the farm of residence. This is nice, until you find that great-grandpa lived on 5 or 6 farms (which means at one time or another, these farm names were his surname). I wish things were as permanent then (regarding surnames) as they are now. I do enjoy and appreciate the fact that the Dutch, as well as the Scandinavians, had the good sense to practice keeping maiden names for the women. : ) Thanks, Nancy, for the "Easy Going" nickname -- I can never remember that one off the top of my head! I am anxious to follow up on the leads that Jan Mangelse might have had some connection to Utrecht. I am really familiar with their records (having searched them over the past 10 years) and can't wait to get to Salt Lake City to look through them for any references to Mangel or Mangelse, etc.! Now, if I could just open up that DuChesne and Bouquet/Bockee line! I am confident that the Bouquet's will be a bit easier, as we already have records of Jerome's 2 marriages in Middelburg, Zeeland; plus the fact that the ship's passenger list shows him as "aus Walslandt" (of Wallonia) -- present day Belgium, plus a little chunck of northern France. I'm hoping to get into those records a bit, too, to see if I can extend that line back any further. Plus, of course, trying to see if I can find any more on Sickles / Strickhauser to solve that mystery. I really enjoy this forum of sharing information and ideas. Our collective heads have come up with some great ideas! Michael VanBaaren [email protected] [email protected]

Isaac Clifford Roll is probably the person who first came across this date and recorded it in all our research. I confirmed this date in the letter to the list on Jan. 30. If you need it again, I will be glad to send it or if I can ever get this scanning down, I can scan this page and send it to whoever wants it. Martha