I, too, enjoyed the doldrums chit chat. However, I'm going to do something about it. I'm leaving the LA heat to vacation for a few days in the Texas heat! But it will be a change of scenery and I'll get to visit my first and only great grandchild. Noelie

City Directories of the USA www.uscitydirectories.com This Web site attempts to identify all printed, microfilmed and online directories for the entire United States, as well as the repositories where they're held. Cyndi's List - City Directories www.cyndislist.com/citydir.htm Here, you'll find links to articles on using city directories, repositories that hold them and actual directories online. Old City Directories Preserved on CD www.oldcitydirectory.com Purchase CD-ROMS containing scanned pages from city directories. Primary Source Microfilm www.galegroup.com/psm You can order microfilmed copies of city directories from this site.

What a terrific list! Really enjoying you folks.... I have a question about WorldConnect Project. It is still the largest place for posting gedcoms, and I check it on each person I research, but..... I got so irked at the tons of duplicate gedcoms that I picked out three one day and wrote to the people who had put them on the WorldConnect - posting new ones without withdrawing the old ones. One person didn't reply to me, but the other two explained that Ancestry.com doesn't permit withdrawing data once it's posted. Anyone know the truth (or not) about that? I would never publish on the net things I couldn't withdraw. That's what I like about GenCircles - I retain complete control. Sharon

Access Genealogy www.accessgenealogy.com Cyndi's List www.cyndislist.com Genealogy Resources on the Internet www.rootsweb.com/~jfuller/internet.html Genealogy Today www.genealogytoday.com GeneaNet www.geneanet.org Ancestry.com www.ancestry.com FamilySearch www.familysearch.org Genealogy.com www.genealogy.com RootsWeb www.rootsweb.com USGenWeb www.usgenweb.com Books We Own www.rootsweb.com/~bwo CousinConnect www.cousinconnect.com GenCircles www.gencircles.com Gnedex www.gendex.com Genealogy Helplist www.helplist.org Herilooms Lost www.heirloomslost.com MyTrees.com www.mytrees.com PastConnect www.pastconnect.com Allen County Public Library www.acpl.lib.in.us/genealogy LibDex www.libdex.com Library of Congress www.loc.gov Making of America www.moa.umdl.umich.edu www.moa.cit.cornell.edu/moa National Archives & Records Administration (NARA) www.archives.gov Bible Records Online www.biblerecords.com Bureau of Land Management General Land Office Records www.glorecords.blm.gov Census Online www.census-online.com eHistory www.ehistory.com Find A Grave www.findagrave.com Interment.net www.interment.net Newspaper Abstracts www.newspaperabstracts.com Obituary Central www.obitcentral.com The Olden Times www.theoldentimes.com Where to Write for Vital Records www.cdc.gov/nchs/howto/w2w/w2weocom.htm Genelogical Death Indexing System www.mdch.state.mi.us/pha/osr/gendisx/search2.htm Illinois State Archives www.ilsos.net/departments/archives/databases.html Library of Virginia www.lva.lib.va.us/whatwehave/gene Maryland State Archives www.mdarchives.state.md.us Minnesota Historical Society www.mnhs.org Missouri State Archives www.sos.state.mo.us/archives/resources/resources.asp New England Ancestors www.newenglandancestors.org Ohio Historical Society www.ohiohistory.org/ar_tools.html Oregon State Archives www.arcweb.sos.state.or.us/banners/genealogy.htm Pennsylvania State Archives www.digitalarchives.state.pa.us Western States Historical Marriage Record Index www.abish.byui.edu/specialcollections/fhc/gbsearch.htm Canandian Genealogy & History www.islandnet.com/~jveinot/cghl/cghl.html Canadian Genealogy Centre www.genealogy.gc.ca Canada GenWeb www.rootsweb.com/~canwgw Early Canadiana Online www.canadiana.org Acadian-Cajun Genealogy & History www.acadian-cajun.com AfriGeneas www.afrigeneas.com Avotaynu www.avotaynu.com Chineseroots.com www.chineseroots.com Christine's Genealogy Website www.ccharity.com The Freedmen's Bureau Online www.freedmensbureau.com Hispanic Genealogy www.home.att.net/~Alsosa Index of Native American Resources on the Internet www.hanksville.org/Naresources JewishGen www.jewishgen.org Civil War Rosters by State www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/3680/cw/cw.html Civil War Soldiers & Sailors System www.itd.nps.gov/cwss National Society Daughters of the American Revolution (DAR) www.dar.org United States Army Military History Institute www.army.mil/usamhi American Plantations & Colonies www.primenet.com/~langford Data Banks on Italian Emigrants www.213.212.128.168/radici/ie/defaultie_e.htm Ellis Island www.ellisland.org Hamburg Link to Your Roots www.hamburg.de/LinkToYourRoots/english/start.htm Immigrant Ships Transcribers Guild www.istg.rootsweb.com TheShipsList www.theshipslist.com 1901 Census Online www.census.pro.gov.uk Ancestor SuperSearch www.ancestorsupersearch.com Free BMD www.freebmd.rootsweb.com Genuki www.genuki.org.uk Origins.net www.origins.net Otherdays.com www.otherdays.com ScotlandsPeople www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk Scottish Archive Network www.scan.org.uk Arkion's Swedish Census Database www.arkion.se Federation of East European Family History Societies www.feefhs.org German Roots www.home.att.net/~wee-monster Heraldry on the Internet www.digiserve.com/heraldry Norway's Digital Archive www.digitalarkivet.uib.no PolishRoots.com www.polishroots.com WorldGenWeb www.worldgenweb.org American Factfinder www.factfinder.census.gov Perry-Castaneda Library Map Collection www.lib.utexas.edu/maps Texas Historic Sites Atlas www.atlas.thc.state.tx.us US Geological Survey Geographic Names Info System www.mapping.usgs.gov/www/gnis Worldwide Directory of Cities & Towns www.calle.com/world Ancient Faces www.ancientfaces.com Dead Fred www.deadfred.com Western History Photography Collection www.gowest.coalliance.org Center for Life Stories Preservation www.storypreservation.com/home.html Family-Reunion.com www.family-reunion.com Scraplink.com www.scraplink.com Advanced Book Exchange www.abebooks.com Babelfish www.babelfish.altavista.com Bartleby.com www.bartleby.com eBay www.ebay.com Free Translation www.freetranslation.com Google www.google.com HistorySeek! www.historyseek.com Lexicool.com www.lexicool.com

Hello, I read every post and now I am interested in this subject. I have also found people who put two families not related at all together just by finding a male with same name and approx. birthdate and went way back on wrong line. Now it is sealed and on line on Family Search, how can this happen if not proven lines? The other man who she used ,was a Dr. and very wealthy man with a big family and even a monument to him here in Massachusetts. I have always wanted to somehow correct it but do not know how to go about it, any suggestions? I wrote to the woman who did the research but was never contacted by her. This week I have been contacted about two family lines that had at least one child missing, one the eldest and on the other the youngest and they ask where I got the family info. I am happy to share with anyone if they are not rude and question my info., please be nice when asking for my data. I never enter anything unless I have proven it, I still use my family group sheets and enter in pencil until proven, then I put data into computer program. After 33 years I still get a big thrill when I find proof of any of my lineages, I would never enter doubtful data and have it "sealed" or used by others. Any comments or ideas out there?. Helen ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaycie" <jayciebee@nls.net> To: <ROCKINGCHAIR-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [RC-ROOTS] doldrums > I've been lurking and enjoying. The doldrums exchanges were delightful, and > now the inaccuracy comment has called my fingers to the keyboard. > > To follow up on Sharon's comments about the duplications of mistakes in huge > GEDCOM-generated pedigrees .... I come to a question I have been stewing > about. Should we do anything when we see the mistakes? I am talking about > two things in particular: > 1. An error that has been copied over and over even though it is flagrantly > incorrect and anyone with the slightest smattering of early Plymouth > (Massachusetts) history who might look at this would see practically at a > glance where the error lies. > 2. The only information I have ever seen published on my great grandfather > is incorrect -- although taken from an old well known and much quoted family > history. I think I am the only one still bearing his name who knows or > cares, but collaterals might not even know how to make the connection. > > I don't know enough about genealogy netiquette to know what might be > appropriate. What do you suggest? or should I just let it be and figure the > unwary deserve what they get? > > Auntie TIA -- LOL > That's Thanks In Advance and Love You Lots or is it Laughing Out Loud > > Jaycie > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sharon Workman" <workman@dreamscape.com> > To: <ROCKINGCHAIR-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 1:38 PM > Subject: Re: [RC-ROOTS] doldrums > > > > Data entry - Have you seen pedigrees where the owner has merged data - > > incorporated whole gedcoms at once instead of entering each person > > individually? Such people end up with a lot of names in their collections > > and some monstrous mistakes as well as a great many duplications. There > are > > pedigrees at Ancestry.com with 200,000 names, at least one with 500,000 > > names. Can you figure out why anyone would want that? > > > > I have a lot of people in my tree - 28,490 - but I entered every bit of > data > > by hand, so whatever mistakes are there are mine alone. LOL!! > > > > At first, all I wanted in my tree were the ancestors, but then I began to > > add the aunts, uncles, and cousins, and that let me make a lot of > > connections with some pretty wonderful people. To me, that's the best > part > > of genealogy finding kinfolks and sharing our "stuff" with each other. > > > > Sharon > > > > > > > > ==== ROCKINGCHAIR-ROOTS Mailing List ==== > > HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM DIGEST MODE: > > please click here and send: > > mailto:ROCKINGCHAIR-ROOTS-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, > go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > ==== ROCKINGCHAIR-ROOTS Mailing List ==== > To post your SURNAMES ON MESSAGE BOARDS: > http://boards.ancestry.com/ > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

In a message dated 6/10/2003 5:40:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, workman@dreamscape.com writes: > Anyone who is serious about genealogy would care very much to have correct > data. If I were in your situation, I'd post the correct information on the > surname message boards, any appropriate surname maillist, and possibly even > in a gedcom at GenCircles, which is my favorite. http://www.gencircles.com/ > That would be in addition to emailing the people who have published the > incorrect stuff on the internet. What they then do with the information > would be up to their sense of integrity. > > I'd put the correct information with supporting evidence in a GEDCOM on WorldConnect http://wc.rootsweb.com/ because this is the largest, and probably the most frequently searched GEDCOM repository on the Net. It is even more important to post the correct information there where the greatest number of people will find it if the incorrect information is already posted there by others. That way those who search in the future will find the documented correct information right alongside the incorrect and can make up their own minds what to believe. Joan

" The only information I have ever seen published on my great grandfather is incorrect -- although taken from an old well known and much quoted family history. I think I am the only one still bearing his name who knows or cares, but collaterals might not even know how to make the connection." Jaycie, Anyone who is serious about genealogy would care very much to have correct data. If I were in your situation, I'd post the correct information on the surname message boards, any appropriate surname maillist, and possibly even in a gedcom at GenCircles, which is my favorite. http://www.gencircles.com/ That would be in addition to emailing the people who have published the incorrect stuff on the internet. What they then do with the information would be up to their sense of integrity. Sharon

I've been lurking and enjoying. The doldrums exchanges were delightful, and now the inaccuracy comment has called my fingers to the keyboard. To follow up on Sharon's comments about the duplications of mistakes in huge GEDCOM-generated pedigrees .... I come to a question I have been stewing about. Should we do anything when we see the mistakes? I am talking about two things in particular: 1. An error that has been copied over and over even though it is flagrantly incorrect and anyone with the slightest smattering of early Plymouth (Massachusetts) history who might look at this would see practically at a glance where the error lies. 2. The only information I have ever seen published on my great grandfather is incorrect -- although taken from an old well known and much quoted family history. I think I am the only one still bearing his name who knows or cares, but collaterals might not even know how to make the connection. I don't know enough about genealogy netiquette to know what might be appropriate. What do you suggest? or should I just let it be and figure the unwary deserve what they get? Auntie TIA -- LOL That's Thanks In Advance and Love You Lots or is it Laughing Out Loud Jaycie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharon Workman" <workman@dreamscape.com> To: <ROCKINGCHAIR-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 1:38 PM Subject: Re: [RC-ROOTS] doldrums > Data entry - Have you seen pedigrees where the owner has merged data - > incorporated whole gedcoms at once instead of entering each person > individually? Such people end up with a lot of names in their collections > and some monstrous mistakes as well as a great many duplications. There are > pedigrees at Ancestry.com with 200,000 names, at least one with 500,000 > names. Can you figure out why anyone would want that? > > I have a lot of people in my tree - 28,490 - but I entered every bit of data > by hand, so whatever mistakes are there are mine alone. LOL!! > > At first, all I wanted in my tree were the ancestors, but then I began to > add the aunts, uncles, and cousins, and that let me make a lot of > connections with some pretty wonderful people. To me, that's the best part > of genealogy finding kinfolks and sharing our "stuff" with each other. > > Sharon > > > > ==== ROCKINGCHAIR-ROOTS Mailing List ==== > HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM DIGEST MODE: > please click here and send: > mailto:ROCKINGCHAIR-ROOTS-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

some of that "merging" was done, not by the original submitter, but by people actually working at the Family History Library, trying to "clean up" the files (and I believe some of it was done by volunteers who might have gotten in a hurry) do please recall, that much of the information submitted to the Temple has not been checked, nor the sources checked, for the original idea of those submissions, was to assure baptism and sealing into the LDS church for any possible ancestors -- a very simplified explanation of a tenet of that faith (you can read far more about it at the LDS website) so the standards of "proof" of those submissions is not what a contemporary professional genealogist would use ... there is much correct information in the Ancestral Files and the Pedigree Research Files and in the IGI ... but the accuracy can range from 5% to 99% ... the most nearly accurate files are those transcriptions of Vital Records files (you can tell them by the IGI source code starting with C or with M) but even there, you will find errors, sometimes they are in the original record (person recording the info couldn't hear, misunderstood, misspelled, got distracted, or was lied to; record was burned or smudged or torn or water-spotted or eaten by bugs ... et cetera ... also, some of our ancestors either could not read or write, never knew how the name was spelled in the first place, or figured that "everyone knew who they were anyway"; they didn't expect us, hundreds of years later, to be looking at those records ... and some of them spoke with unusual accents for the region, or did not speak English at all ... so, for example, "Galbreath" turned into "Gilbreth"; "Kuehne" turned into "Keeny", and "Thomasine" turned into "Tumsyon" then the transcriber may have introduced errors through misreading or finger-fumbling ... so don't lay all the blame on the original contributor -- almost all of them have done the best they knew how, in good faith -- sometimes with a bit more exuberance than we'd like ... Candy (still finding errors and incorrect linkages within my own database -- it never ends .... ) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helen Ware" <helenware@attbi.com> To: <ROCKINGCHAIR-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: June 10, 2003 03:02 PM Subject: Re: [RC-ROOTS] doldrums > Hello, > I read every post and now I am interested in this subject. > I have also found people who put two families not related at all together > just by finding a male with same name and approx. birthdate and went way > back on wrong line. Now it is sealed and on line on Family Search, how can > this happen if not proven lines? The other man who she used ,was a Dr. and > very wealthy man with a big family and even a monument to him here in > Massachusetts. I have always wanted to somehow correct it but do not know > how to go about it, any suggestions? I wrote to the woman who did the > research but was never contacted by her. > This week I have been contacted about two family lines that had at least one > child missing, one the eldest and on the other the youngest and they ask > where I got the family info. > I am happy to share with anyone if they are not rude and question my info., > please be nice when asking for my data. > I never enter anything unless I have proven it, I still use my family group > sheets and enter in pencil until proven, then I put data into computer > program. > After 33 years I still get a big thrill when I find proof of any of my > lineages, I would never enter doubtful data and have it "sealed" or used by > others. > Any comments or ideas out there?. > Helen

two more places to put it (for those who will come looking for that information ... and want it correct ) upload at least a sketchy genealogy to Rootsweb's WorldConnect put a message also on the Genforum(s) applicable, both the surname one(s) and the state or county one; don't forget to post to the maternal surname as well as paternal http://genforum.genealogy.com/ fill in the surname or location not many people talk about accessing the Genforums, but I have found good hints there -- the message board stays UP and you can follow the discussions ... it's also easily searchable by keyword ... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharon Workman" <workman@dreamscape.com> To: <ROCKINGCHAIR-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: June 10, 2003 02:42 PM Subject: Re: [RC-ROOTS] doldrums > " The only information I have ever seen published on my great grandfather > is incorrect -- although taken from an old well known and much quoted family > history. I think I am the only one still bearing his name who knows or > cares, but collaterals might not even know how to make the connection." > > Jaycie, > Anyone who is serious about genealogy would care very much to have correct > data. If I were in your situation, I'd post the correct information on the > surname message boards, any appropriate surname maillist, and possibly even > in a gedcom at GenCircles, which is my favorite. http://www.gencircles.com/ > That would be in addition to emailing the people who have published the > incorrect stuff on the internet. What they then do with the information > would be up to their sense of integrity. > > Sharon

Candy, Thanks for the story. We can find our folks in all kinds of odd ways, and no clue should be tossed out as too far-fetched. Close - Both my mother and father are descended from that line, originating with the famous "Goodman" John Close from Yorkshire. Does your Catherine Close fit into that family? Sharon

Candy - think your Eldridge ghosts might enjoy the beach? I'd picture them haunting the Delaware River banks...however, I'd certainly be interested in meeting "Quilt Lady" tell us more.

Well said Sharon!! I agree with you 100% To many mistakes out there!! To much online that is not correct data but some don't even bother to check for sources etc. they just accept it as being true. Quality, not quanity is the way to go. Jim > Data entry - Have you seen pedigrees where the owner has merged data - > incorporated whole gedcoms at once instead of entering each person > individually? Such people end up with a lot of names in their collections > and some monstrous mistakes as well as a great many duplications. There are > pedigrees at Ancestry.com with 200,000 names, at least one with 500,000 > names. Can you figure out why anyone would want that? > > I have a lot of people in my tree - 28,490 - but I entered every bit of data > by hand, so whatever mistakes are there are mine alone. LOL!! > > At first, all I wanted in my tree were the ancestors, but then I began to > add the aunts, uncles, and cousins, and that let me make a lot of > connections with some pretty wonderful people. To me, that's the best part > of genealogy finding kinfolks and sharing our "stuff" with each other. > > Sharon

Data entry - Have you seen pedigrees where the owner has merged data - incorporated whole gedcoms at once instead of entering each person individually? Such people end up with a lot of names in their collections and some monstrous mistakes as well as a great many duplications. There are pedigrees at Ancestry.com with 200,000 names, at least one with 500,000 names. Can you figure out why anyone would want that? I have a lot of people in my tree - 28,490 - but I entered every bit of data by hand, so whatever mistakes are there are mine alone. LOL!! At first, all I wanted in my tree were the ancestors, but then I began to add the aunts, uncles, and cousins, and that let me make a lot of connections with some pretty wonderful people. To me, that's the best part of genealogy finding kinfolks and sharing our "stuff" with each other. Sharon

I have gotten Rev War Pension papers from the National Archives. There is a fee and it just went up. I don't remember how much it is now. There is also a new form to request records. Contact the Nat'l Archives. ----- Original Message ----- From: "CM" <clm@charter.net> To: <ROCKINGCHAIR-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 12:21 PM Subject: [RC-ROOTS] question > Can someone tell me how I might get a copy of the following, > Revolutionary War Pension and Bounty Land Warrant Application Files, > 1800-1900, M804, rolls 461-1710? > I found a relatives name. It has a number beside the name. I'm trying to > figure out if there is a fee and how much? > I would appreciate any help. > Candace > > > > ==== ROCKINGCHAIR-ROOTS Mailing List ==== > HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM LIST MODE: > please click here and send: > mailto:ROCKINGCHAIR-ROOTS-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Thank you Hazel, Ellen, Candy and Lillian! It's a fabulous morning at the Jersey shore and I am off to the boardwalk---y'all have surely lifted me up and out of those doldrums.... Ruth

Hi All, Speaking of tedium and doldrums. I not only have a stack of research to put into my Family Tree program but I need to categorize it :-( A wonderful dear late aunt of mine always said to go to bed thinking of the project you want to clear up and in the morning the zest will be there to go and get it done. LOL it's worked for some of my unfiinished projects but tonite is the night I will dwell on my genealogy LOL. ellen

Its probably going to be doldrums when this heat moves in, but for now just waiting for the answers to a death cert, and obits from a library, the waiting is exhausting,,,,,,,,lillian

did just get a DSL line as a belated "Mothers' Day" present and lo and behold, I can now access Ancestry.com, FamilySearch.org, and much more of Rootsweb (my previous dialup would toss me offline every 3 to 5 minutes, and sometimes the download would be at 85 bytes per sec; that's AWFULLY slow for graphic-intensive sites) so I now have found the presumptive parents (the immigrant generation) for my Catherine Close .... and apparently her name WAS Close and not Clouse or Clauss, as some researchers have guessed; without that highspeed access I'd never have had the patience to wait through many aborted start-ups to find that this from my Elizabeth Hopkins line; that brick wall finally fell, back about Christmastime. Don't knock it when people say they were serendipitously "led" to their ancestors, for I kept looking at Eldridge Hopkins of Kentucky, who moved to Indiana, but his children were just the wrong ages, and married other people ... and the transcription I had was that his wife was "Zerrah" wasn't until another researcher uploaded to WorldConnect at Rootsweb, that I found it was a mis-transcription, her name was actually ZILLAH (Morris) Hopkins; she was my Elizabeth's aunt (Elizabeth's mother Asenath/Aseneath Morris was Zillah's sister, her father Joseph S. Hopkins was Eldridge Hopkins' brother !!! ) and my Elizabeth went by (variously spelled) Zilla, Ziloh, Zellah from the 1900 census on; that's what her grandson called her too ... it would seem she assumed that name after her aunt Zillah died ... then Elizabeth Hopkins married George Eldridge, in another odd coincidence of names ... though he is no known relation of Eldridge Hopkins' ... so don't despair, she is my greatgrandmother, and I spent five years nearly fulltime on the internet and at the FHL for five intensive dawn-to-dark days, looking for her it also illustrates the technique of searching the siblings or presumptive siblings of your direct line -- after all, when I was just starting out, I was looking for George Eldridge -- have you any idea how many of that name there are? (don't even think of searching on Google ! ); luckily I knew he had a sister named Lucy, who married Abner Fugate (at last, an unusual name ! ) and I was fortunate enough that one of the Fugates later joined the LDS church and had submitted an Ancestral File; backed up by census data and family Bibles ... George would have been difficult to find by census alone, as he was listed as "Ger" and "Ged" ... probably from a mistaken transcription of the common (then) abbreviation Geo_ ; in land records his name is spelled Elrige ... so a Soundex search might not have found it now I'm off to tackle Nathaniel Smith of Maine, born "about 1775" who married Priscilla Milliken in 1800 there's a real dearth of Smiths named Nathaniel (or Nathan) during that period, though it's quite possible he was from MA or CT or RI or elsewhere, since that branch of the family mostly follows the sea ... anyway, no fair having the doldrums, wait until August ... Candy

Ruth and Rockers, I've had a couple days like that, too. I have a stack of new cousins to enter into my tree, and I sit here just staring at all the papers. That's the least interesting part of this hobby to me. I have a low tolerance for tedium. Anyone else getting anywhere? Sharon