> Wilma, > Thanks so much for this info. It brings up a few more questions though. John > married a Boyles and then a Clarke... Good Morning... Yes, the abrevations they used takes some getting used too.. b= birth d= death w/f= wife m or md= married do=same like we use " they used do ch=children d/o=daughter of s/o=son of frm=freeman rem=removed Plyn=Plymouth chh=church In Torrey's New England Marriages prior 1700 p613 I found this: "RAYNOR, John (1600 - 1669) & 1 w/f Anna [BOYCE/BOYSE] ( - 1647?) 12 Aug 1633, b 1625?, by 1632, Plymouth" "RAYNOR, John (1600 - 1669) & 2 w/f Frances/Elizabeth CLARK ( -1676+) by 1642? Plymouth". I would say Elizabeth's mother was her fathers first wife.. Anna BOYCE / BOYES. I can't find a father for her in Savage or Pope. > which would be the mother of Elizabeth? She married in 1641, long before >her last brother & sister were born. Seems there may be two sets of kids. Yes, I am sure he had issue with both of his wives...as you can see Torrey was also mixed up when the first marriage took place. John being born 1600 I would say he was married around 1625.. and the 2nd married abt 1642... >And is the 1642 date below when > John married F. Clarke or when she joined the Church? Probably both...she probably joined the chuch when she was married... sounds reasonable to me!! (((weak smile))) >( I have a hard time with some of these abbreviations.) I listed some of them at the top of my letter.. > And at the bottom, which of these dates is his death date? That mixes me up too... wonder if there were two John RAYNOR's father and son say...that were pastors of the church... wait a sec... it says, Mr. John RAYNOR, 'TEACHER' of Dover Chruch d 21 (2) 1669.. Torrey has his death date as 1669...ok... that is understandable..that is the death date of our John b 1600... We know he had a son John jr.. who must be the Mr. J.R. listed below.. see what you think.. Probably by the time his son John jr became pastor of the church, John sr steped down and became the teacher of said church??????? Then Pope says, "Mr. J. R. Pastor of the do d 21 (10) 1676".. which means "Mr. J. R. Pastor of the Dover Church died 21 (10) 1676" there Pope used the 'do' which means ditto.. Torrey on page 613 had another JOHN RAYNOR ..says of him: "RAYNER, John ( -1675/6 , 1676) & Judith QUINCY (1655-1679/80) ca 1673: Plymouth" So... this last John was the pastor..and he is the one that died 1676... do you agree? > I'm also looking for a copy of the letter on Moral Laws. Maybe a will? If you find it would you send it to me? Thank you and if you find my Thurston is any relation to said John I would appreciate it if you or someone would let me know... It is so hard hanging out here all by your self!! >Thanks again for all the help you have given to everyone. You are most welcome and hope I can do more..I am kinda floundering here myself...wishing they kept better records on some of these ancestors.. where some records are wonderful...but then everone wasn't as important as others and it seems that the 'others' were the ones that had better records kept on them... Wilma Fleming Haynes gencon@harborside.com