Hi All Lists, There remains a great deal of scepticism and even some hostility towards the possibility of dna Gen testing. Below are three recent messages that seem useful for all to read. These two people seem to have specific information that could assist you to make a determination. I am NOT in a position to judge the value of these comments, but because of their obvious potential value, I do want you to have the views for your evaluation and/or as a basis for further decisions or action, if any. Obviously, the expenditure of $200 is significant, but on the other hand, might be trivial if there is a way to determine some blood/Gen/ familial connection of value to you, if that is possible. I am having a bit of difficulty determining how one can obtain the dna of ancestors w/which to compare, see the 'View a sample report' comparison website and discussion further below: (This is an edited extract of the pitch as previously sent): " "Find Your Ancestors with Genetic Testing http://www.ancestornews.com/dna.htm How and Why your DNA can help you find connections with the past and the present. Ancestry.com announces the most advanced DNA testing and DNA databases available anywhere. Their state-of-the-art DNA testing lab, under the direction of renowned scientist Dr. Scott Woodward, is on the cutting edge of DNA analysis and has the ability to link you with your ancestors. For about $200, you can prove or disprove relationships with living people break through previous brick walls in your research find ethnic and geographic clues to help in your search group surname reconstruction database and pedigree matches. How Genetic Genealogy Testing Works: Once you submit your DNA sample, the DNA will be extracted and processed so that the specific region of interest on the DNA can be examined. Certain well-studied locations on your DNA are known to mutate or experience slight changes as your ancestors pass them down from generation to generation. Since we know the approximate rate of mutation for various locations on your DNA, we can compare similar DNA signatures and statistically determine how many generations it would have taken for one person's signature to mutate into another signature. Exact matches indicate very close relationships because not enough generations separate the two people for any mutations to have occurred. Signatures with multiple mismatches indicate a more distant relationship or no relation at all. Shortly after your DNA sample has been processed, your results and information will be available to you on a secure personal Web site that only you can access. On your personal Web site you can: View and print test results. See how your results match up with their extensive databases of DNA samples for possible matches. Contact possible relatives with similar DNA signature anonymously through the Ancestry.com Web site. Automatically search over 186 million names in the Ancestry World Tree for newly discovered relatives. Imagine . . . Knowing your ancestral signature is the first step in unlocking the secrets of your heritage that go beyond written records. View a sample report: http://64.4.8.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=4f4245f9fff5d23a9c598c3ff9312328&lat=1013896541&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2eancestornews%2ecom%2fdna%2ehtm" [These below are the 2 messages (imperfectly edited) I wanted to transmit. bw]: "Buyer Beware, Medical tests for these kinds of problems are NOT going to help in any way by swabbing the inside of your cheek. These tests are very costly and are done in a laboratory under specific conditions. Ancestry is up to their old tricks. Trying to grab your money. Please read between the lines. And there is NO test for Indian ancestry-especially by swabbing your cheek. If you read carefully, you will see that all they are offering is a migration pattern of certain people. Big deal. A very close friend of mine had her blood tested for a family history of a certain illness that was genetic and some of her brothers had died from the disease. This simple blood test was $5,000 and she had to travel 350 miles to a certain hospital in Boston go have it. There was screening, interviews and research into her family. The test probably costs more now as this was in 1993. Luckily, she did not have the gene. If you are looking for your ancestry or trying to prove you are descended from someone back int eh 1700's, first you have to dig up that ancestor and have him tested by bone marrow. Then you have to be tested. Below I have copied and pasted some information from a woman who knows what she is talking about: There is NO known test to determine Native American > Ancestry. Or Tribe. Or Color. Check with Duke, Yale, North Western, > Johns Hopkins, Albert Einstein---Mayo---any genetic testing lab of > repute---etc. they will all tell you many things are being learned daily > in cracking the DNA codes--race is NOT one of them, to date. > > > The testing, however, does show migration patterns, relationships to other > folks being tested, (if any), relationship to groups being tested. EX: I > do some EDWARDS research, and a man who kind of rounds us all up, heads us > in the right direction, has been having Edwards folks send their samples > to a lab that is doing all the families being tested. They have discovered > the Alabama Edwards do NOT come from the NC line, but--out of the Mass. > grp--etc--due to the relationship shown in the DNA. > > Illnesses known to be heavy in a family, with genetic markers, (and this > would include Tribal communities, etc, due to our proclivity for > cousinship marriages, common familial intermarriages (kind of the same > thing)---) will show up big time. > > Native grps sometimes have a certain trait for a health problem---a rare > form of retinitis pigmentosa is one-- particular combination of markers for > the alpha-antitrypsen (1) enzyme is another, my family has that one, is > matrilineally passed---PhD did a book on it. > > SO: DNA testing is good, if you are looking for recessive items that can > be harmful---2 recessives can make a dominent, you know----or if you want > to see who you are related to --group wise---but, to date---no little > marker has a feather on it's cell-------forget finding out "what kind of > Indian I am". that way. > > The Pimas, being rather isolated, self contained, had a huge study done on > them re: diabetes, weight gain, heart problems, etc. So, if you are > related to, descend from them,have moved out, married out, chances are---a > DNA workup on you would show your relationship to them, and some of the > same traits they have markers for---and probably be acceptable proof, you > are to some degree, Pima. > > Most tribes are matrilineal------your testing could prove you are related > to a particular group, making your statement of being of them, related to > them, would be a proven. NOT be an "Indian marker" but by the documented > relationship to People who ARE proven to be native. > > > > But, markers have minds of their own--some are male to female passed, > some are the reverse (hemophilia--female carrier, male inherited) and then, there is "mutation"---on and on it goes. > > >> Altho I sure wish they would crack this one---then every one could head >> down to their local gene lab, get tested, have THAT on their drivers >> license . Sure would cure the wannbees. (so much for "I have a red heart >> and a red spirit--yeah, right) And the Feds. LOLOLOLOL >> >> The standard test is a bit under $200. Mainly because it is grant funded, >> so they can charge a minimum. Paternity, etc, on thorough genetic >> screening runs between $1200 and $2000, depending on what is being looked >> at, sought, tested for." [end messages 1&2] ======================= I agree with your interpretation. I've done a bit of reading on the topic and the tests currently available can follow the male line OR the female line. You can't find out anything about your father's mother unless you do the DNA test on one of her daughters. I have a great deal of information about my mother's female line and my dad's male line. My brick walls are all in my dad's mom's line. She is deceased, as are her daughters. . . . . . . My most solid brick wall is my great-grandfather, who had one son...who only has a daughter. I don't think it would be possible to prove a relationship to Pocahontas through DNA because she only had a son, who only had a daughter, who only had a son...no direct line of the same sex. The best you could hope for was proving a relationship with one of her siblings or another descendent. There have been a couple of excellent articles on DNA testing and genealogy in the National Genealogy Society Quarterly in the last year or two. [end message #3] ======================= There is one comment I would like to address. While Ancestry might be looking for add'l income (who isn't?), I would not evaluate such an add for $200 as a bald pitch just to milk us w/no benefit. They would stand to lose tremendous good will if there wasn't some benefit. There are many people of high moral values involved in this Gen endeavor, who would be quick to disavow Ancestry if this is a fraud. Nevertheless, as the first message started with, Buyer Beware! Barry _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com