While I am absolutely sure that no harm was meant by the person who posted the letter in question, and that it was done in a spirit of helpfulness, I am not sure that it is appropriate for us to post personal letters, regardless of whether the principals are dead or how long ago they may have died. I know that I don't want my own letters posted on the internet after I'm gone, and the only people who can prevent that happening are those into whose hands they may fall. Maybe, in the case of personal letters, it would be better to first post a query, asking whether anyone might know of the addressee or of the author. If there is an interested response, then maybe the communication about such a letter could be more private. On the other hand, posting general queries, items which are of public record, or citing sources where information may be obtained is just fine, in my opinion. Pip

Right on, girl! Couldn't have done it as well myself. Billie

Dear Kelly, You were not wrong in posting that letter or any bit of information you come across. Like Gary said "that is what genealogy is all about"--proving and disproving. Sometime, somewhere one little bit of info will help someone out tremendously. Keep up the good work!!!! mr

This is from a zeroxed copy of a newspaper clipping someone sent me, probably in the 1970's. It is from the Beaumont Enterprise, Beaumont ( Jefferson Co. Tx.) and the only date is Feb. 21. Haskell Texas, Feb. 21 (ap) When they talk about the Kennedy political family around here, the Ratliff family is liable to pop up for comparison.... The line began, as far as Texas is concerned, with L. D. Ratliff, Tennessee born lawyer. L. D. Ratliff, Wise and Haskell county counselor-at-law. fathered 11 children, four of them lawyers and a fifth, a state senator. "There was a major difference between Joe Kennedy ( president Kennedy's father) and my Daddy", L. D. Ratliff's eldest son, Dennis, Haskell attorney and former state legislator, and district judge here says, " My Daddy died a poor man after raising 11 children". L.D. had two brothers, Ed and W.H. The former was a member of the Oklahoma Legislature and later counsel on the corporate commission of Oklahoma City. The later was a member of the Texas Legislature from Hardeman County before moving to Dallas, where he was tax commissioner for Texas Power and Light Co., for many years until his death in 1949. The Ratliffs roots are buried in the subsoil of Hickman Co. Tenn. L.D. came to Decatur, Wise County, about the turn of the century, got his family on its voting way, and then moved to Haskell in 1921, spending his last 21 years there. L.D. died in 1942 but the Ratliff vein is thick in the motherlode of Northwest and NorthCentral Texas political and civic minefield. Dennis, the eldest, a practicing attorney here, was in the Legislature from 1931 to 1935 and district judge here afterwards. David Ratliff, a Stamford businessman is not an attorney, but elected State senator in a special election to fill the vacancy caused by the death of the colorful Harvey Sadler, David has been re-elected to this office every two years since 1954. L.D. Ratliff Jr., an attorney, is a district judge at Spur. Bill Ratliff is the Haskell county attorney. O.B. Ratliff, lawyer, never held public office, but he just never ran for it. He lives in Lubbock, is a former member of the Board of Trustees at Texas Tech. and now is with the Brazos River Authority. Roy Ratliff, another office holder, now lives in Abilene, and was both county clerk and district clerk here for several years. Rounding out the Ratliff record, there are two more, neither lawyers nor office holders, but you better watch 'em on the latter counts. They could qualify, being Ratliffs. Hugh, a retired Warrant Officer in the Air Force, is manager of the Haskell Clinic. T.J. is a school-teacher for 35 years in DeQuincy, La. Given a little running room, politically speaking, the runnin' Ratliffs could crowd the Kennedys, especially Texas tabulations. Now, just so none of us get the big-head, I think I will post the story of Marshall Ratliff, the Santa Claus Bandit and last white man lynched ( and naked too!) in the state of Texas, that is if you want to read it. It is long. Billie Ratliff Staggs

In a message dated 98-10-24 03:00:19 EDT, you write: << Dear list readers, Several days ago I posted a letter dated 1909 on the list. It came to me as many things do to all researchers, hand to hand to hand... I found it interesting and worth sharing. At least three of the former owners (including the original author of the letter) are all deceased, so can not be questioned as to why they kept it, or what real value it held for them to pass on to others. I have received a personal E-mail from a member of the list, who claims that this letter, in at least part, is about her family and that the content is in great question to its validity. >> Kelly, Don't be sorry for putting the letter on the mail list. It is very interesting and I thought we were suppose to share the info we have with each other to check out ourselves. Just because we haven't proven something is no reason not to share it. We learn from each other. Carollyn Guidry

Kelly KH Sullivan wrote: > > Dear list readers, > Several days ago I posted a letter dated 1909 on the list. It came to > me as many things do to all researchers, hand to hand to hand... I found > it interesting and worth sharing. > At least three of the former owners (including the original author of > the letter) are all deceased, so can not be questioned as to why they > kept it, or what real value it held for them to pass on to others. > I have received a personal E-mail from a member of the list, who claims > that this letter, in at least part, is about her family and that the > content is in great question to its validity. > Since I personally am unable to prove or disprove the content of the > letter I would hope that no one will take the letter and just accept it's > content as absolute proof to anything with out digging much deeper. > I apologize for any inconvenience my addition of the 1909 letter > may be responsible for, and beg forgiveness from those offended. > Sincerely, > Kelly. > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > ==== RATLIFF Mailing List ==== > If you have any questions or concerns, please e-mail me > *--*--*--*--*--*--*Happy Hunting!!*--*--*--*--*--*--* > Mari, RATLIFF List Owner mailto:[email protected] Dear Kelly, Your contributions are always welcome. I have old letters that are not proven but are always interesting and give a taste of life in "those days." I printed your letter for future reference realizing that you were just passing it on and I thank you for it. Perhaps other will pass their materials on for reference; we know they are often full of misinformation but it's up to us to look into these data. That's what genealogy is all about. Thanks again. Gary Radcliffe

Dear list readers, Several days ago I posted a letter dated 1909 on the list. It came to me as many things do to all researchers, hand to hand to hand... I found it interesting and worth sharing. At least three of the former owners (including the original author of the letter) are all deceased, so can not be questioned as to why they kept it, or what real value it held for them to pass on to others. I have received a personal E-mail from a member of the list, who claims that this letter, in at least part, is about her family and that the content is in great question to its validity. Since I personally am unable to prove or disprove the content of the letter I would hope that no one will take the letter and just accept it's content as absolute proof to anything with out digging much deeper. I apologize for any inconvenience my addition of the 1909 letter may be responsible for, and beg forgiveness from those offended. Sincerely, Kelly. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

[email protected] wrote: > > 1. I don't know how accurate it is, but there is a > substantial narrative about the Jamestown > colony at > > http://www.history.org/other/journal/smith.htm > > which is mainly about Captain John Smith, but which makes mention, > several times, of Captain John (Sicklemore) Ratcliffe. > > 2. Has anyone seen the movie, "Pocohontas"? > Is John (Sicklemore) Ratcliffe made out to be the villain of the piece? > I heard this somewhere, but I do not go to movies, so I don't know. > > Pip > > ==== RATLIFF Mailing List ==== > Neither HTML nor RTF is acceptable for mailing lists. It causes > problems for Rootsweb servers and for certain email programs. > Please turn these functions off. The following URL explains how > to correct the problem in various programs. > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/listowners/html-off.htm Yes, Pip, John Ratcliffe was the villain, thanks to Disney. I didn't see the movie, either, but my little niece was deeply disappointed. He was far from being a hero or even a good governor but he didn't deserve the opprobrium heaped on him by later generations. John Smith was shackled and jailed; Ratcliffe never was. Gary Radcliffe

Yes, Ratcliff is made out to be the villian in Pocohontas

Pam and Bryon wrote: > > Dear Karon: > > If your Nancy was born in the early-to-mid- 1800's, you might try a line > of RADCLIFFs I've been researching with regard to their connections with > the POLSON family. David and Benjamin RADCLIFF, sons of Richard > RADCLIFF and Jean_____, both born in VA 1790's, moved to Garrard Co. KY > bef. 1810, then to Washington Co., Posey Twp. IN by 1817. I have some > of their children but not all of them. Let me know if this sounds like > a possible connection. > > Regards, > > Pam > -----Original Message----- > From: Karon Mazie <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] <[email protected]> > Date: Wednesday, October 21, 1998 6:25 PM > Subject: Re: [RATLIFF-L] RATLIFF FAMILY > > >Hi Kelly, > > > >I have no knowledge where she was born, they lived in southern Indiana. > >Other relatives of mine living in that area moved there from Kentucky, > >but I don't know if she did. I will consider seeing information on the > >oldest funeral home. I don't know if she was involved with a funeral > >home, or if the family prepared her for burial. > > > >Thanks for that thought. Karon > > > > > > ==== RATLIFF Mailing List ==== > Please remember to respect the copyright laws. If you wish to > quote something that is copyrighted, quote just a few words > or lines, giving credit to the author of the publication. Dear Pam & Byron, The boys you mentioned were sons of Richard Radcliff who d. 1814 in Garrard County, KY. Have we ever corresponded about this? I would like to know the descendants of these boys and have posted queries which have never been answered. I can take you back 2 generations from the boys you mentioned. Gary Radcliffe

1. I don't know how accurate it is, but there is a substantial narrative about the Jamestown colony at http://www.history.org/other/journal/smith.htm which is mainly about Captain John Smith, but which makes mention, several times, of Captain John (Sicklemore) Ratcliffe. 2. Has anyone seen the movie, "Pocohontas"? Is John (Sicklemore) Ratcliffe made out to be the villain of the piece? I heard this somewhere, but I do not go to movies, so I don't know. Pip

Kelly KH Sullivan wrote: > > Thank you so very much for this information. > I was recently told that John Ratlff (Ratcliff), if he existed, was > probably a John Sicklemore? If I am not mistaken, it would appear by > your list that Captain John Smith sighted him as having been on either > the Sarah Constant, the Godspeed or the Discovery. In several different > papers I have come across the Discovery seems to be the ship most > mentioned in reference to the name John Ratliff (Ratcliff). Do you know > any thing about that, or have you a direction to point me in? > Do you know if he used an alias as suggested by the information > recently given to me? If so where did you find this information? > Might you also know about any of the Ratliffs that may have moved into > North Carolina from Virginia, as my own family I feel may have been there > too, but what county and where to start searching, I am not sure. My > family left Virginia by way of Tennessee having one son while there and > then as far as I know on to Illinois, yet the 1st child born in Illinois > was a Guilford, most likely named after the battle of Guilford in North > Carolina, leading me to wonder about the family possibly migrating from > Virginia, to Tennessee and, or, N. C. and then on to Illinois. Finally > resting in Texas... opps, I forgot, they did have a generation or so in > Arkansas too. > Once again thank you for your information and the sources of that > information. > Kelly > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > ==== RATLIFF Mailing List ==== > Problems with Unsubscribing? Did you remember to add > " -request" before the @ symbol? > Contact list owner Mari mailto:[email protected] Dear Kelly, The name Sicklemore was Capt. Sir John's birth name. He took his step- father's name when his mother remarried. The old history books say that it was an alias but henever used the name Ratcliffe to deceive anyone. Did he not make two trips to America? One on the Discovery and one on the Diamond? The book I quoted from is "A History of Virginia" which I read many years ago and was written perhaps one hundred years after 1610. He was the captain of the Diamond, as I recall. I don't believe that there were any children from Sir John's marriage to Dorothie. There is more data on him in my files but it will take some looking to find it. Gary Radcliffe

Thanks for the info on Ratliff's in MIssissippi. This is part of my line. Brad Ratliff, Houston, Texas

This was copied from materials sent to me by the Itawamba Historical Society. I am not related to these Ratliffs as far as I know. I hope this information will help some of my Ratliff "cussins". I am quoting this exactly as printed. Of the first Ratliff that came to America, we do not have any records. He spelled his name RADCLIFF and had a son named James born in Maryland, 15 March 1767. This James Radcliff had a brother named Samuel. James went with his brother Samuel from Maryland to Augusta, Georgia in 1807, where he worked some, and then went to Kentucky where he married JANE RICHEY ( born 27 Dec. 1785) on Dec. 4, 1807. Three sons were born to James and Jane in Barren Co., Ky. Their names are as follows: Samuel RATLIFF (born 22 May 1810), Robert RATLIFF ( born 2 Jan. 1812), George RATLIFF ( born 22 Dec. 1813.) This family moved to Priceville, Alabama in Morgan County, south of Decatur, about 1814. David RATLIFF, another son was born in Morgan County on December 7, 1815. While in Morgan Co. the additional sons were born: Addison RATLIFF ( born 23 Nov. 1817), Claiborn RATLIFF ( born 14 Dec. 1819), Harvey RATLIFF ( born 22 July 1822), James Ratliff Jr., ( born 20 Aug. 1824). The James and Jane Richey RATLIFF home in Morgan Co., is listed on the Historical Register today. George RATLIFF went to Florida before he married, to help drive the indians from Florida, Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi to the new Indian Territory ( now Oklahoma). When they landed in Mississippi where the Oak Grove Cemetery is located ( presently near the Ratliff community in Itawamba Co.), they camped three days and nights. While camping there, he looked around at the land and decided it would be good stock country. It was also a beautiful place to have a home. He went back to Priceville and married MARTHA M. KIRKLAND on Jan. 2, 1838 at Priceville. He then came back to Oak Grove, cutting the wilderness as he went, cooking on open fires and living in an Indian wigwam. He homesteaded the land known as the MELTON place just west of Oak Grove. They moved on Twenty-Mile Creek, where he finished the rest of his life. He had a son in the civil war who contacted measles while in the service.George went to see him and he also contacted the disease. A daughter at home contacted measles from George, her father and she were expected to die. George helped wait on her during her sickness. He contacted pneumonia and died Feb. 11, 1862. He was buried Feb.12, 1862 in the Oak Grove Cemetery. Ratliff, Mississippi was named for George Ratliff, and NOT for his brother Harvey, who ran the Ratliff post office, as you will find in many records. George Ratliff's brother Claiborn was killed in the civil war Okolona 11 Oct 1862. Martha M. KIRKLAND Ratliff had seven sisters and a brother who died young. Two of her sisters married two brothers of George Ratliff. Martha M. Kirkland was born 8 April 1821 at Priceville, Ala. and died 3 Dec. 1904 at Ratliff, Miss. She is buried in Oak Grove Cemetery. The following children were born to George and Martha M. Ratliff James Rufus ( he was born 2 June 1840 and died 2 Sept. 1866. He was never married.): Sarah Jane ( She was born 17 Dec. 1841 and married Mortimer H. HINDS on Jan. 13, 1859. She died 2 Sept. 1930), Burrell W. ( he was born 23 Feb. 1843 and married Sarah Ellen MITCHELL on Dec. 2, 1865. He died 16 July 1904 in Oklahoma). Leatha Ann ( she was born 25 April 1844 and married Henry J. GRISSOM on Dec.2, 1860. Henry J. Grissom was born 4 Feb. 1838 in Lauderdale Co., Ala. Leatha Ann and Henry didn't have any children. Leatha Ann died on Mar. 24, 1861. Henry didn't want her grave to be rained on, so he took a fishing pole, measured off around her graveand built a small wooden house over her grave. The first rotted out and they built a second house. Henry would cry all the time about losing her. When he came home from the civil war, Henry married Leatha Ann's sister. Henry died 4 Sept. 1872.). Cynthia Elizabeth ( she was born 10 Dec. 1845 and married Charlie Monroe BOREN on Dec. 27, 1866. Cynthia E. died 25 Oct. 1899 in Fannin Co. Texas.) Mary Frances ( she was born 17 April 1847. She married Hiram Newton GRISSOM, a brother of Henry J., on 17 Feb. 1862. Hiram N. was born in Lauderdale Co., Ala. 20 Aug 1840. Mary Frances died 13 Jan 1909.) Amanda Penina "Mandy" ( she was born 4 April 1849. She married Henry J. Grissom on 11 Dec. 1866. About 8 years after Henry J.'s death, she married James Monroe "Jim" NABERS . He was born 10 June 1827 and died 22 Jan. 1897. James Monroe had married the first time to Miriam Elizabeth GRISSOM. She was born in Lauderdale Co. Ala, 4 Mar. 1836. She was a sister to Henry J. and Hiram N. Grissom. Jim Nabers was a brother-in-law to Mandy by her first marriage to Henry GRISSOM. Edison C. Ratliff ( he was born 18 July 1850 and married Ann A. HALBROOK on Oct 25, 1868. Edison died on MAY 13, 1919, probably in Oklahoma.) Amelia D. ( she was born 31 Aug. 1852 and died 20 Oct. 1862). George Gandlen Ratliff ( he was born 31 Aug. 1855 and married Cassie Emiline BOREN on 8 Jan. 1881. Cassie was born 20 March 1862 and died 19 Aug. 1893. After her death, George married Mary Elizabeth NANNEY-KELLUM, widow of George Franklin Kellum , around 1900. Mary Elizabeth was born 1 Aug. 1858 and died in 1919 in Fannin Co., Texas. After her husband, George F. Kellum had died, she married William Henry GREENE. He ran off and left her with twin daughters. Mary Elizabeth was the daughter of Uriah Pollard NANNEY and Eliza Frances WILLIS Nanney. Mary's son, William Luther "Lou" Kellum married a niece of George G. Ratliff, Mary's sister, Mattie Nanney married a nephew of Geo. G. Ratliff, Bob Grissom. Bob's siter, Ella Grissom married William Luther Kellum. Mary's brother. Wiley Nanney married a daughter of Henry J. and Mandy Ratliff Grissom and when she died, Wiley Nanney married her half-sister, the dau of Mandy Ratliff Grissom and Jim Nabers. George G. Ratliff married a third time, to Mrs. Edna Richey Gable STEPHENS, about Feb 1912. His third wife was the mother of his son, George Grover Ratliff's wife. George G. Ratliff died 1 April 1939). Margartet Josephine "Josie" Ratliff ( she was born 17 May 1857 and married J. Hillary CUMMINGS 0n Jan. 19, 1871. She died 29 Oct. 1933.) Ophelia Ann ( she was born 14 Aug. 1858 and married Doctor John FORBUS on Dec 20, 1876. She married a BROOKS the second time. She died 27 June 1927.) Mattie Samantha Ratliff ( she was born 21 March 1861 and married Augusta Columbus "Gus" Nabers on Feb. 15, 1880. Augusta Nabers was born 5 Dec. 1858 and died 31 Oct. 1933. Mattie Samantha died 27 June 1925. Augusta was the son of James Monroe "Jim" Nabers and Miriam Elizabeth Grissom Nabers. All of the above children were buried in the Oak Grove Cemetery in Itawamba Co. Mississippi, with the exception of Burrell W. and Edison C. who were buried in Oklahoma and Texas. This journal of an Itambwa family was submitted by Kathyrn Mackey of Tupelo, Miss. She is a member of the Itawamba Historical Society.

Dear Karon: If your Nancy was born in the early-to-mid- 1800's, you might try a line of RADCLIFFs I've been researching with regard to their connections with the POLSON family. David and Benjamin RADCLIFF, sons of Richard RADCLIFF and Jean_____, both born in VA 1790's, moved to Garrard Co. KY bef. 1810, then to Washington Co., Posey Twp. IN by 1817. I have some of their children but not all of them. Let me know if this sounds like a possible connection. Regards, Pam -----Original Message----- From: Karon Mazie <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, October 21, 1998 6:25 PM Subject: Re: [RATLIFF-L] RATLIFF FAMILY >Hi Kelly, > >I have no knowledge where she was born, they lived in southern Indiana. >Other relatives of mine living in that area moved there from Kentucky, >but I don't know if she did. I will consider seeing information on the >oldest funeral home. I don't know if she was involved with a funeral >home, or if the family prepared her for burial. > >Thanks for that thought. Karon > >

Re: Corenelius, son of Joseph, son of Richard, son of Richard, > this is my line. I've just started on my Ratliff line, I don't have much information to exchange but I do have a lead for my Mary Ratliff, b.1832 prob. IN, who I believe to be the dau. of Joseph Ratliff, b.1787 NC, son of Cornelius Ratliff, b.1756 NC, son of Richard, son of Richard! Think we might have the same line? It would be a pretty big coincidence if we didn't!! Please let me know if you want to share info. Thanks, Lauri > > ==== RATLIFF Mailing List ==== > Problems with Unsubscribing? Did you remember to add > " -request" before the @ symbol? > Contact list owner Mari mailto:[email protected]

To the person who is interested in researching John Sicklemore, who used the name Rat(c)liff - there are numerous sources of information about him. Any book having to do with the Jamestown Colony is likely to have information about him. It should not be that difficult to find him under either name, but here are a few, among many possible, sources: 1. CENSUS OF INHABITANTS: JAMESTOWN AND THE JAMES RIVER (975.5, T971) 2. title not recorded for this: 975.5, B631I, which gives a description of his death at the hands of Indians, according to my notes 3. the very wonderful CAVALIERS AND PIONEERS, for which I cannot find the call number at this moment. 4. The Virginia Historical Index (SWEM) has several entries for him. I have seen no argument, in any source, that this man's original surname was anything but Sicklemore. No one knows, for sure, why he used Rat(c)liff (or similar spelling). Now that I think about it, it may have been Captain John Smith who first "exposed" him as an "imposter". Anyway, it's fun to read about these characters. They had quite a time of it, with lots of internal struggling for power, in the Jamestown colony. Pip

Thank you so very much for this information. I was recently told that John Ratlff (Ratcliff), if he existed, was probably a John Sicklemore? If I am not mistaken, it would appear by your list that Captain John Smith sighted him as having been on either the Sarah Constant, the Godspeed or the Discovery. In several different papers I have come across the Discovery seems to be the ship most mentioned in reference to the name John Ratliff (Ratcliff). Do you know any thing about that, or have you a direction to point me in? Do you know if he used an alias as suggested by the information recently given to me? If so where did you find this information? Might you also know about any of the Ratliffs that may have moved into North Carolina from Virginia, as my own family I feel may have been there too, but what county and where to start searching, I am not sure. My family left Virginia by way of Tennessee having one son while there and then as far as I know on to Illinois, yet the 1st child born in Illinois was a Guilford, most likely named after the battle of Guilford in North Carolina, leading me to wonder about the family possibly migrating from Virginia, to Tennessee and, or, N. C. and then on to Illinois. Finally resting in Texas... opps, I forgot, they did have a generation or so in Arkansas too. Once again thank you for your information and the sources of that information. Kelly ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

How do you tie in? My line is Elizabeth daughter of Joseph and Mary Fletcher

Corenelius, was the son of Joseph, was the son of Richard, son of Richard, this is my line.