My comments on Rolla's Truth or Dare... Rita > I want to focus on 4 of the test results and their reported most distant > known ancestor - > > 26983, Samuel, 1759 > 24404, Hence 1, 1823 > 26707, Hence 2, 1823 > 31628, John R., 1854 > > Facts: > > 1) Kit 24404 is a perfect match with the proposed ancestral DNA sequence > > 2) The remaining 3 kits all share the 1 mutation mismatch at marker 464c. > > Ergo: > > Truth or Dare > > 1) 24404 and 26707 (Hence 1 and 2) claim they trace back to the same common > ancestor (Hence), but only one shares the mutation. Consequently the > mutation occurred after they last shared a common ancestor. The last common > ancestor was Hence. Therefore, Hence did not have the mutation. The > mutation occurred after the split. Comment: Their (24404 and 26707) last common ancestor was Hence's son, Hinsey Jonas Queen. Respectively, 24404's grandfather and 26707's father were brothers. So which kit has the mutation? 24404 or 26707? If Hence and son Jonas were available for DNA testing, isn't it possible that their samples could mirror 26707 instead of 24404? I am looking for a descendant of 26707's brother. Is it worthwhile to pursue descendants of Hence's other 2 sons. Would that confirm/deny/confuse the true DNA pattern? If I am way out in left field, please tell me. > > 2) As a result, kits 26707, 31628, and 26983 all share a common ancestor > after Hence. All three donors must trace their lines of descent back to a > common ancestor before Hence, and then back through Hence. Comment: Open to suggestions on how to surge over this brick wall. I've looked for a paper trail for Hence Queen for some time, and have not found any link to other Queen families. Some of you may remember the story--he appears in the 1850 Rabun County census with wife, Nancy, and 2 children. By 1860 Hence has disappeared and Nancy is widowed with 5 children (3 sons, 2 daughters) in 1860 Cherokee County NC. I have checked courthouses, archives, and libraries in NC, GA, and TN looking for a marriage record for Hence and Nancy, or any record of his existence. To date, his only documented occurence is the 1850 Rabun County GA census. > > 3) Kit 26983 indicates that he can trace his lineage back to Samuel, 1759. > Consequently, he should be able to document his most recent common ancestor > with the 26707 and 31628, and should be able to follow his ancestry through > the next most common ancestor (Hence) with 24404. Comment: In an effort to figure out where the paths crossed, I contacted several of the 37-marker matches in the hopes of compiling a spreadsheet detailing geographic locations for each our ancestors for the census years as a means to find a common place/time for our lineage. Only one responded. Since I am stuck at 1850, I can't begin to pinpoint his location in 1840 when Hence would have been about 17. > 4) If the DNA is interpreted correctly, and the documents are interpreted > correctly, then all 4 donors should trace back through Hence to Samuel, born > in 1759. > > 5) The time frame between Samuel (1759) and Old William provide that Old > William could be the father or grandfather of Samuel, or that Samuel might > share a common ancestor with Old William. > > 6) Now, the descendant of John R, born 1854, has the mutation. Hence was > born in 1823, John R. in 1854. 30 years difference is not enough distance to > provide John R to be a grandson of Hence, and the mutation had to occur > after Hence. Therefore, logic dictates that John R. had to be a son of Hence Comment: Hence disappeared from my family line somewhere between 1858-1860. He could have moved on and established another family somewhere. > > > 7) In order for 26983 and 26707 to share the mutation after Hence, then they > must also share a common ancestor in John R. The mutation has to occur with > John R. or one of his desendants, and all three donors must trace back > through those descendants. Does not leave many generations to work with. > > 8) So if all is to be believed. All these kits descend from Samuel, through > an unnamed second generation, third generation Hence - one child of Hence > leads to 24404, John R is another child of Hence and he becomes the > partiarch for kits 26983, 26707, 31268. > > After this, we play spin the bottle! > > > Rolla > > http://webpages.charter.net/rlqueen/DNA/queenmarker.htm > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/queenDNA/ > http://webpages.charter.net/rlqueen > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.9 - Release Date: 5/12/2005 > > > ==== QUEEN Mailing List ==== > Visit my homepage: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ > QUEEN YDNA PROJECT > http://www.familytreedna.com/surname_join.asp?code=X96855&special=True > http://www.ysearch.org/ > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

Regarding: Rolla's ................Truth or Dare 1) 24404 and 26707 (Hence 1 and 2) claim they trace back to the same common ancestor (Hence), but only one shares the mutation. Consequently the mutation occurred after they last shared a common ancestor. The last common ancestor was Hence. Therefore, Hence did not have the mutation. The mutation occurred after the split. Rita's Comment.................... Their (24404 and 26707) last common ancestor was Hence's son, Hinsey Jonas Queen. Respectively, 24404's grandfather and 26707's father were brothers. So which kit has the mutation? 24404 or 26707? If Hence and son Jonas were available for DNA testing, isn't it possible that their samples could mirror 26707 instead of 24404? I am looking for a descendant of 26707's brother. Is it worthwhile to pursue descendants of Hence's other 2 sons. Would that confirm/deny/confuse the true DNA pattern? If I am way out in left field, please tell me. Gene's comment........ True. We don't know the DNA of Hence or Hinsey Jonas. We know that there is a slight difference in DNA of donors of two branches off the Hinsey Jonas tree. I'm putting my money on kit 24404 as being the sample that truly represents Hence and Hinsey Jonas - no mutation from the dominant Queen DNA. Granted, with this argument, I'm assuming that there is no infidelity issue involved - and we should assume that from a statistical standpoint. Possibly, a factual answer to this question can be found. It involves sample 26707 with the one mutation. If a descendant of a sibling of the donor, or if a descendant of a sibling of Riley Ireland can be found and convinced to be a donor; then we will have more answers. I suppose that I would focus on a descendant of another sibling of Riley Ireland. This would result in samples from the lineage of 3 sons of Hinsey Jonas. We'd be looking for 2 out of 3 matches; thus fix the mutation to a specific lineage from Hinsey Jonas. Yes, there are a number of other possibilities. I just don't recommend that we go there at this time. (I'm dealing with some of the same issues with my Alfred line). I have a particular interest in the outcome of this challenge; because I'm in the same boat with my John R. Queen - except that the waves are higher for me because there is a real possibility (not documented yet) that John was an adopted son of my Alfred. Thus, I will assist in any way I can in determining the source of the mutation on 26707. Gene