Hi folks, have a copy of Myra Elvira QUEEN's Certificate of Death which cites her birthdate as July 18, 1845. Somebody please refute my "natural sibling spacing" theory by coming up with a factual and more precise birthdate for Thomas Butler--something that is 9 months or less after hers. Absent positive proof of adoption (or other), a birthdate 9 months or less after Myra's would lend support to the theory of adoption. Hit me with your best shot! Gayle Phillips Cantrell gpcantrell@home.com What's my line? -----Original Message----- From: Gayle Cantrell [mailto:gpcantrell@home.com] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 1:19 AM To: 'O Eugene Queen'; 'Queen Researchers'; 'Linda Menikos'; 'Barbara Powers'; 'Paul D Justis' Subject: RE: T.B.J. Queen and/or T.B. Justice Butler Thomas QUEEN (name per 1860 Census) of ~1846 is my Great GrandUncle, but I'm afraid I have nothing substantial to contribute. HOWEVER, I am certainly interested in filling in the branches and leaves on my tree, so if anyone cares to share, I'm available! Thomas Butler QUEEN of 1884-1886 (name per gravestone) would be my 1st cousin 2x removed. (I have a photograph of the gravestone in .jpg format. Email me privately if interested.) T.B.J. QUEEN sounds like a very interesting individual...does anybody have PRECISE birthdates on Mira Elvira QUEEN and Butler Thomas QUEEN? I ask because the 1860 Census suggests a "normal" spacing between naturally related siblings, i.e. Mira 14, Butler 12 followed by Adda 10. If I sound like I've missed something, I probably have...been sick, been busy, blah, blah, blah! Best to all, Gayle Phillips Cantrell gpcantrell@home.com What's my line? -----Original Message----- From: O Eugene Queen [mailto:EQueen@lexcominc.net] Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 9:44 AM To: Queen Researchers; Linda Menikos; Barbara Powers; Paul D Justis; Gayle P Cantrell Subject: T.B.J. Queen and/or T.B. Justice Hi all, I have a headache! Just who was T.B.J. Queen? I thought I knew, but now I wonder. (Is it possible that he was Thomas Butler Justice....Queen, that he was "adopted" by John Queen, he married in NC as a Queen; then prior to 1880 left NC, dropped Queen from his name and went to OK & TX as Justice where he married and raised a new family...only to be discovered in 1905-1907 by his N. C. wife, Dane, during his visit with his daughter, Callie in OK? Or, are these two or three different Thomas Butlers or Butler Thomases?). This post will deal only with the Queen side of his life as I interpret the data. The new data (to be presented in a later post) is significant to me, because if the data and interpretations are correct, then it reflects the move from Macon County, NC to OK, TX of another Queen family...possibly following older relatives. So much for my reasoning for getting involved with this one. Will anyone please shoot holes in the following as appropriate? John W. Queen, Jr. (b. ca 1816 d. 6-13-1863 Rome, GA) m. Martha Hickey in Macon County on 10-3-1840. (This John presumed to be son of John W. Queen, Sr. (b. ca 1774/75) Middle name presumed to be William, not Wesley.) 1850 Macon County, N. C. Census, dwelling 654, family 668: John Queen, 34, farmer, $1,000 R.E., born Burke Martha (ditto on Queen), 28, born Macon Lucy J(?) (ditto), 8, born Macon Elvira (ditto), 5, born Macon Butler (ditto), 4, born Macon Brunetta (ditto), 3/12, born Macon John (ditto), 76, born Montgomery (presumed to be father of John) Note: 28 houses away was James S. Queen who married Kizziah Haynes. 1860 Macon County, N. C. Census, dwelling 149, family 153: John W. Queen, 43, $800 R.E., $580 Personal, born in Burke Martha (ditto on Queen), 37, born Macon as were all children Mira E. (ditto), 14 (later married George Carson Grant) Butler Thos (ditto), 12 Adda A. (ditto), 10 Sarah E. (ditto), 7 (later married Jesse C. Grant) William M. (ditto), 4 (later married Mary Frances Rickman) Unnamed, 5/12 (believed, or known, to be Simmon Montgomery Queen who later married Mary Etta Aneline Tippett) *** Macon County Marriage Register (Man), pg 287: 9-22-1865; Queen, T. B. J. and D. P. Matlock by R. C. Slagle ****Note: He "White"; She "White" Are we convinced that this is the Butler or Butler Thos per above? 1870 Macon County, N.C. Census, dwelling 9, family 9 (pg 282): Queen, T. B., 22, $125 Personal, born in NC (ditto on Queen), D. P., 22, born in NC as were all children (ditto), John W., 3 (ditto), Callie A., 1, f Living in house # 10 was Jesse Grant, age 19 and Sarah E. Grant, age 17 and a Sarah Matlock, age 25. (I understand that this Sarah was the Sarah E., age 7 in 1860 census above, now living next door to T.B. Queen....her brother or adopted brother?) Also...for possible clues regarding new research... family #11 in 1870 census consisted of McGaha, Rufus (?), age 26, $225 R. E. Cockerham (?), Joel, age 22 Cockerham (?), Nancy L., age 17 1880 Macon County census, Cowee Township, pg 529 Queen, Wm M., 22 (ditto), Martha A., 53, Mother (ditto), Dane P., 32, sister-in-law (ditto), Martha, 7, Niece 1880 Macon County census, Cowee Township, pg 535 Queen, S. M., 18 Two families away is Alfred McGaha (?) with daughter, Artie. A. E.(?), 7/12 (Clue for new research?) 1880 Macon County census, Cowee Township, pg 539 Queen, Callie, 9 (ditto), Albia, 7 Both girls in household of William West who was "Raising" them. Specific questions: Do we believe that the T.B.J. Queen who married D.P. Matlock was the same Butler or Butler Thos who was in the household of John W. Queen, Jr.? If so, does the 3 initials in his name open the door to the possibility that he was Thomas Butler Justice Queen, possibly adopted by the "wealthy" John Queen sometime between birth and age 4? I understand that he went by the name Butler. Thanks, Gene