Rebuttal for Rolla: How do you propose to fit the 18 on 576 into the Alfred Queen of 1810 lineage? The 18 in Alfred's lineage was started with my grandfather, William Monroe Queen, b. 1877. It did not exist with his father, James Henry Queen of 1847; nor his great grandfather, Alfred Queen of 1810. Your shot.... Gene

If this be the sons of Samuel Queen (1759) Sons of Samuel Queen 1. Henson b. ca 1783 ------------ not firmly represented in the DNA study 2. William Brown b. ca 1796 -- not firmly represented in the DNA study 3. Harmon b. ca 1800 ------------ not firmly represented in the DNA study 4. John R. b. ca 1802 ------------ represented in the DNA study 5. Lewis b. ca 1806 -------------- not firmly represented in the DNA study Are the above correct statements? Who are the sons of Old William (c1720)? Please identify with Birthyears. Do we know if any are firmly lineally represented in the DNA study? Let's make some progress today! Rolla

And - - just what does King Rolla mean by this remark? "... we need to confirm that, hypothetically speaking, an 80 year old man did father the next person in the line." Is there something in the Californee water that makes men lose their manhood after 35-45? We old coots in North Carolina can father a child at any age just as long as we can find a willing female. 64 and still going strong (at least in my dreams). ^ But, yes, I wonder about the 80 year old's wife. Gene

Another argument - another "what if"? Were Reuben and Moses Queen brothers? What does YDNA say? 1810 Burke: Moses (b. 1766-1784) 2 males born 1800-1810 (One could be James C. Queen, born 1805?) 1820 Burke: Moses (b. 1775 or earlier) 1 male born 1797-1804; 1 male born 1804-1814; 2 males born 1810-1820) 1830 Burke: Moses (b. 1770-1780) 1 male born 1800-1810; 1 male born 1810-1815; 1 male born 1815-1820 1840 Burke: Moses (b. 1760-1770) no young males in household Reuben Queen was born about 1786 in North Carolina; living in Montgomery County in 1810, then made his way to Texas. The birth year of Moses appears to have been in the range of 1770-1775; clearly within the range to have been a brother to Reuben. .................... Now, let's consider the DNA using 2 samples from the reported lineage of Reuben and 1 sample from the reported lineage of James C (Moses?). Kit 25569 of the James C (Moses?) lineage has an 18 on 456. (He also has a 17 on 557, but that appears to be a recent mutation and is being discounted). Thus kit 25569 matches the old William profile except for the mutation on 456. Kits 37863 and 29369 of the Reuben Queen lineage (thru his son Samuel) also have the 18 on 456. Since these two kits are from donors thru two different sons of Samuel of 1819, the argument is that Samuel had the 18 on 456. Looking strictly at YDNA results, one could rightly argue that Reuben and Moses were brothers and that their father (unknown thus far) ALSO had the 18 on 456 since BOTH his sons, Reuben and Moses, did. With this argument, we're looking for a pa for Reuben and Moses - a pa that was born prior to 1750 - and a pa who had mutation 18 on 456. ............... What about mutations 12 on 391 for both these sons of Samuel of 1819? Simply further DNA confirmation that the paper research is correct regarding the descendants of Samuel. The fact that somewhere down the line to the donor of kit 29369 another mutation, 13 on 388 was picked up is not important to this particular line of research. ........... What about the other kit, 24329, reportedly representing Reuben and the other kit, 26040, reportedly representing James C. (Moses)? For this particular argument, these kits are being temporarily ignored. Comments, challenges, questions? Gene

I just reloaded the lineage version of the page showing an outcome when certain assumptions are taken out of the mix for arguments sake. Focus on the orange and purple colored text on lines 36 to 44 of the websheet. Rolla -----Original Message----- From: queen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:queen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of O. Eugene Queen Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 1:47 PM To: QResearchers Subject: [QUEEN] Mutation 16 on 464c Your observation: Kit 26040 is a different matter. Once we accept that 26040 and 25569 have James C. Queen as the most distant confirmed ancestor, then there is no way that Reubin and Moses could have had a Pa with the 18, then one of the grandsons end up with the 17 (don't go on about parallel mutations). It is just not consistent. I would argue that for 26040, we need to confirm the documentary record back to the most distant confirmed ancestor, and would be willing to argue that at some point things aren't so confirmed, and maybe one of these sponsors is playing with a speculative deck. My response... The donor of 26040 is not willing to confirm a lineage to James C. Queen. More research is needed on this lineage. Thus, my tentative exclusion of this kit from the James C. Queen/old Moses Queen lineage. Gene When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/listowners TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE ARCHIVES AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/listowners > http://webpages.charter.net/rlqueen/DNA/queenmarker.htm > > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/queenDNA/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to QUEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.7/830 - Release Date: 6/3/2007 12:47 PM

Not challenging your manhood, just the ability of an 80 year old man to find, how did you say it, a "willing female". Shucks, I'm 52 and I'm having a hard time finding a "willing female." Now, I'm willing to let her mow the yard and get me a beer while I yap on the computer about the history of the Queens, but that's about all the willing I get! Ouch! She's also willing to wump me upside the head! Rolla -----Original Message----- From: queen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:queen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of O. Eugene Queen Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 1:01 PM To: QResearchers Subject: [QUEEN] Hypothetical my hiney And - - just what does King Rolla mean by this remark? "... we need to confirm that, hypothetically speaking, an 80 year old man did father the next person in the line." Is there something in the Californee water that makes men lose their manhood after 35-45? We old coots in North Carolina can father a child at any age just as long as we can find a willing female. 64 and still going strong (at least in my dreams). ^ But, yes, I wonder about the 80 year old's wife. Gene When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/listowners TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE ARCHIVES AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/listowners > http://webpages.charter.net/rlqueen/DNA/queenmarker.htm > > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/queenDNA/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to QUEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.7/830 - Release Date: 6/3/2007 12:47 PM

Gene argues: "Were Reuben and Moses Queen brothers? What does YDNA say? Looking strictly at YDNA results, one could rightly argue that Reuben and Moses were brothers and that their father (unknown thus far) ALSO had the 18 on 456 since BOTH his sons, Reuben and Moses, did. With this argument, we're looking for a pa for Reuben and Moses - a pa that was born prior to 1750 - and a pa who had mutation 18 on 456." Response: the scenario you present is plausible considering these three samples in isolation. Gene states: "What about mutations 12 on 391 for both these sons of Samuel of 1819? Simply further DNA confirmation that the paper research is correct regarding the descendants of Samuel. The fact that somewhere down the line to the donor of kit 29369 another mutation, 13 on 388 was picked up is not important to this particular line of research." Response: I agree. Gene asks: "What about the other kit, 24329, reportedly representing Reuben and the other kit, 26040, reportedly representing James C. (Moses)? For this particular argument, these kits are being temporarily ignored." Response: Now here is the rub!!!! Ignoring the 18 on 576 of 24329 may move us back into having to debate parallel mutations on this marker, something that I am reluctant to do. This kit obviously needs an upgrade, because the test results can be argued to place this descendant on both sides of the 19/20 divide. The only thing that argues for placing this test in the 20 column and associating it with Reubin is the information provided by the donor that the last confirmed ancestor was Reubin. This needs to be confirmed. Also the sponsor for kit 24329 needs to fill in the direct make ancestry for this kit so we can place it on the websheet and help us all in trying to marry the DNA to the documentary record. Kit 26040 is a different matter. Once we accept that 26040 and 25569 have James C. Queen as the most distant confirmed ancestor, then there is no way that Reubin and Moses could have had a Pa with the 18, then one of the grandsons end up with the 17 (don't go on about parallel mutations). It is just not consistent. I would argue that for 26040, we need to confirm the documentary record back to the most distant confirmed ancestor, and would be willing to argue that at some point things aren't so confirmed, and maybe one of these sponsors is playing with a speculative deck. There is one other possible explanation, but I ain't ready to go there yet! Rolla

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: CatSil Surnames: Queen Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.queen/474.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Sorry, I don't know where he was from. I just know that he had been married to Martha and they had a son. Last Martha had heard, Jack Queen had been living in the New York area, but that was in about the 1980's. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: tqueen177 Surnames: Queen Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.queen/474.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Jack Queen from where? My husband had an uncle John Taylor (Jack) Queen born around the Gastonia, NC area on 04 Jun 1925. We have his wife's name as Gladys Derse. Tammy Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: tqueen177 Surnames: Queen/Criswell Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.queen/257.267.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I am interested in the info you have posted and am curious about your source. My husband's grandfather is John Avery Queen. His father is Albert Douglas Queen, one of their children you don't have listed. Also, according to my husband's father, Lonia Sarah and Marion Butler both had a different mother, Ruth Criswell. The dates we have, though, don't jive with some of this, so we're curious as to how it actually all fits together. Also according to my husband's father, John Avery's first wife, Sarah, was full blooded Cherokee, which we believe is probably true to some extent because my husband and his father have both the bone structure and grow almost no facial hair. Do you or does anyone else have further info on any of this? Thanks, Tammy and Roger Queen tqueen@our-town.com Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: tqueen177 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.queen/558.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I have one of William and Margaret Katherine Lewis Queen's sons, Thomas, having a wife named Elizabeth. Both Thomas and Elizabeth's place of death being Morgan Co., Alabama. Could Elizabeth Queen be a daughter-in-law instead of a daughter? I also do not have one of their children being Olive Vine Queen. Do you have more info on her? Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: t42GodleyIOOF_JohCoTX Surnames: QUEEN Classification: cemetery Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.queen/933/mb.ashx Message Board Post: QUEEN_Newel_Y_and_Alice_E.JPG Norman Guiling photographed this gravestone in the Godley IOOF Cemetery, Johnson Co., Texas. Feel free to use the picture for your personal records. This is one of the 172,420 cemetery photos free at http://teafor2.com Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: t42GodleyIOOF_JohCoTX Surnames: QUEEN Classification: cemetery Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.queen/932/mb.ashx Message Board Post: QUEEN_Lillian_Virginia.JPG Norman Guiling photographed this gravestone in the Godley IOOF Cemetery, Johnson Co., Texas. Feel free to use the picture for your personal records. This is one of the 172,420 cemetery photos free at http://teafor2.com Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: t42GodleyIOOF_JohCoTX Surnames: QUEEN Classification: cemetery Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.queen/931/mb.ashx Message Board Post: QUEEN_Charlie_Calvin.JPG Norman Guiling photographed this gravestone in the Godley IOOF Cemetery, Johnson Co., Texas. Feel free to use the picture for your personal records. This is one of the 172,420 cemetery photos free at http://teafor2.com Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: tqueen177 Surnames: Queen/Meredith/Lewis Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.queen/569.1.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Debra, I would be interested in the facts you have from this line. I have the dates different for this Wm. L. Queen. I have his birth as 1749 in Va. and death abt. 1835 in N.C. I also have his wife as Margaret Meredith. I have his parents listed as William Queen b. bet. 1716-1720 d. abt. 1801 and married to Margaret Katherine Lewis b. abt. 1720 d. abt. 1795. My husband, unless we have made a wrong turn somewhere, is descended from William Lewis Queen, Sr. through Meredith Queen, then Charles Queen, then John Queen, then Avery Butler Queen, then John Avery Queen who is my husband, Roger's, grandfather. I have Meredith and William Lewis Queen, Jr. as being brothers. I have lots of other information as well, but would gladly wish for anyone to correct the information I have. It would be great if you would email us directly: tqueen@our-town.com Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: tqueen177 Surnames: Queen/Meredith/Lewis Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.queen/569.1.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Debra, I would be interested in the facts you have from this line. I have the dates different for this Wm. L. Queen. I have his birth as 1749 in Va. and death abt. 1835 in N.C. I also have his wife as Margaret Meredith. I have his parents listed as William Queen b. bet. 1716-1720 d. abt. 1801 and married to Margaret Katherine Lewis b. abt. 1720 d. abt. 1795. My husband, unless we have made a wrong turn somewhere, is descended from William Lewis Queen, Sr. through Meredith Queen, then Charles Queen, then John Queen, then Avery Butler Queen, then John Avery Queen who is my husband, Roger's, grandfather. I have Meredith and William Lewis Queen, Jr. as being brothers. I have lots of other information as well, but would gladly wish for anyone to correct the information I have. It would be great if you would email us directly: tqueen@our-town.com Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

Walt and James D. - are you folks at home? Can one of you help Rolla, and us, out on the James C. and old Moses Queen data? As you can see, I'm "messing" with your James C./Moses lineage. Has Jerry Dyer simply stopped with his research? Or, is he keeping it all to himself these days? Throw a rock up against his window and wake him up. We need him back on Queen-L. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rolla Queen" <rolla.queen@charter.net> To: "'O Eugene Queen'" <EQueen@lexcominc.net>; "'QResearchers'" <QUEEN@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 10:25 PM Subject: RE: [QUEEN] Reuben/James Queen - What's Up? > While you all are following Gene's lead, in making some of the updates, I > noticed that I have both kits 26040 and 25569 tracing back to a James C. > Queen, one listed as birth date 1806, and the other 1805. And to > complicate > things, I have kit 26040 going back to Moses Queen (1781), but the > original > ancestry information I was given for the spreadsheet had Moses birth year > at > 1805. Clearly, something is amiss here, so let's get it corrected. > > Are these two James C. Queens the same person? If so, let's make the > connection. What is the correct birth year that each of these kits are > reporting? And what is the correct birth year for Moses. Is Moses the > confirmed last ancestor for 26060, and if so, if both James are one in the > same person, would not Moses also be the ancestor for both lines? > > Please set me straight!! > > Rolla > > >

Testing to see if this comes thru the list. Did anyone get the first one? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rolla Queen" <rolla.queen@charter.net> To: "'O Eugene Queen'" <EQueen@lexcominc.net>; "'QResearchers'" <QUEEN@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 10:25 PM Subject: RE: [QUEEN] Reuben/James Queen - What's Up? > While you all are following Gene's lead, in making some of the updates, I > noticed that I have both kits 26040 and 25569 tracing back to a James C. > Queen, one listed as birth date 1806, and the other 1805. And to > complicate > things, I have kit 26040 going back to Moses Queen (1781), but the > original > ancestry information I was given for the spreadsheet had Moses birth year > at > 1805. Clearly, something is amiss here, so let's get it corrected. > > Are these two James C. Queens the same person? If so, let's make the > connection. What is the correct birth year that each of these kits are > reporting? And what is the correct birth year for Moses. Is Moses the > confirmed last ancestor for 26060, and if so, if both James are one in the > same person, would not Moses also be the ancestor for both lines? > > Please set me straight!! > > Rolla > > >

Tell me Group 1. Who are the known sons of Samuel Queen, born 1759? Rolla

Who is the William Queen, age 57, born in NC and in the household of Reuben Queen in 1850 Texas? Gene