This has been most interesting.   I agree that survivability was practically nil for a baby born over two months prematurely in 1800. But Fr. John was likely correct in that it was a second baptism. Perhaps the first was ondoye - provisional. My great grandmother was baptised ondoye, because there was a traveling priest who wasn't due there for a few weeks. I will check other registers such as St-André around 1800 to see what they might have. Where would I find "folio" register sheets for missionary priests? I am in southern Maine, about 400 miles south of the area in question. I use Ancestry's Drouin for images of the original registers.   Bud --- On Wed, 3/17/10, pleblan@aim.com <pleblan@aim.com> wrote: From: pleblan@aim.com <pleblan@aim.com> Subject: Re: [QUEBEC] Baptisms at St-Basile Madawaska To: Quebec@rootsweb.com Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 9:25 AM Sorry about the early release of other email.    St-Basile Madawaska was a mission of St. André Church, Kamouraska, Québec. until 1804 & 1807-1808.  You may want to check there for original entries.  Besides the register see if there is a missionary folio (bundle of loose sheets) from the circut ride.    I feel one of the birth years is wrong. The time between the birth dates is too short for an early birth & survival. I have seen some errors in the records when a priest "remembered" the events when returning to the main church several weeks later.    The Thibodeau(x hehe)from that area, I have looked at,  may be actually be from Caribou area.    Paul Le B  l'Ascension  Louisiane    -----Original Message-----  From: Fr John L <owentagart@aol.com>    According to the record on two consecutive pages of the register of the parish  of St. Basile de Madawaska, Father Charles Hott, priest and pastor of that  parish, on 18 March 1806, baptised two sons of Joseph Tibeaudeau and Marie  Josephte Cote, namely Firmin Theodule Tibeaudeau and Simon Maxime Tibeaudeau.  The record also indicates that Firmin Theodule was born on 12 January 1800,  Simon Maxime on 28 July of the same year, and that both were baptised during  that year by Messire Francois Vezina, missionary there at that time.  There is  no reason given in the record for the second baptismal ceremony.  However,  according to my own experience of nearly 40 years of priesthood,  I am quite  sure the reason was that the records kept by Messire Vezina, missionary were  either deteriorating or difficult to read.  This was not simply a transcription  of the previous record, as indicated by the fact that, in addition to the  marks  [  +  } of some of the participants who were unable to sign their own names,  there are names written out in a different hand than Father Hott.    Fr John L    -----Original Message-----  From: Russell Dorr <russelldorr@yahoo.com>    On this page, there are two baptisms of two sons of Joseph Thibodeau &  arie-Josephte Coté, one for Firmin Thèodule, the other for Simon Maxime, both  n 18 Mar 1806. What is odd is that it seems Firmin was born 12 Jan 1800, Simon  n 28 Jul 1800. Can anyone figure out what is going on here? The URL is at the  nd.    hanks,    ud Dorr      . . Search the Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=QUEBEC . Browse the Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/QUEBEC/ . A link to a favorite site: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~unclefred/main.htm . ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to QUEBEC-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Bud, and cousins all: There is no possible doubt that that Firmin and Simon Thibeaudeau were baptised twice. There is also no possible doubt that the first baptism was NOT "provisional" ["ondoyement"] since it was performed by a priest,. Ondoyement is the term used when a lay person pours water upon the head of newborn infant, and says the words, "I baptise you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit". The two most common reasons for "ondoyement" are A) because the infant is premature or otherwise in danger of death, B) because the birth occurred during the winter, and it will not be possible for the family to bring the child to church until after the spring thaw. If the child survives, and is brought to church at a later date, the form of baptism is repeated by the priest-celebrant, and the other liturgical rites of baptism are performed. Fr John L -----Original Message----- From: Russell Dorr <russelldorr@yahoo.com> To: Quebec@rootsweb.com; quebec@rootsweb.com Sent: Wed, Mar 17, 2010 9:59 am Subject: Re: [QUEBEC] Baptisms at St-Basile Madawaska This has been most interesting. agree that survivability was practically nil for a baby born over two months rematurely in 1800. But Fr. John was likely correct in that it was a second aptism. Perhaps the first was ondoye - provisional. My great grandmother was aptised ondoye, because there was a traveling priest who wasn't due there for a ew weeks. I will check other registers such as St-André around 1800 to see what hey might have. Where would I find "folio" register sheets for missionary priests? I am in outhern Maine, about 400 miles south of the area in question. I use Ancestry's rouin for images of the original registers. ud --- On Wed, 3/17/10, pleblan@aim.com <pleblan@aim.com> wrote: rom: pleblan@aim.com <pleblan@aim.com> ubject: Re: [QUEBEC] Baptisms at St-Basile Madawaska o: Quebec@rootsweb.com ate: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 9:25 AM Sorry about the early release of other email. t-Basile Madawaska was a mission of St. André Church, Kamouraska, uébec. until 1804 & 1807-1808. ou may want to check there for original entries. Besides the register ee if there is a missionary folio (bundle of loose sheets) from the ircut ride. feel one of the birth years is wrong. The time between the birth ates is too short for an early birth & survival. I have seen some rrors in the records when a priest "remembered" the events when eturning to the main church several weeks later. he Thibodeau(x hehe)from that area, I have looked at, may be actually e from Caribou area. aul Le B 'Ascension ouisiane ----Original Message----- rom: Fr John L <owentagart@aol.com> ccording to the record on two consecutive pages of the register of the arish f St. Basile de Madawaska, Father Charles Hott, priest and pastor of hat arish, on 18 March 1806, baptised two sons of Joseph Tibeaudeau and arie osephte Cote, namely Firmin Theodule Tibeaudeau and Simon Maxime ibeaudeau. he record also indicates that Firmin Theodule was born on 12 January 800, imon Maxime on 28 July of the same year, and that both were baptised uring hat year by Messire Francois Vezina, missionary there at that time. here is o reason given in the record for the second baptismal ceremony. owever, ccording to my own experience of nearly 40 years of priesthood, I am uite ure the reason was that the records kept by Messire Vezina, missionary ere ither deteriorating or difficult to read. This was not simply a ranscription f the previous record, as indicated by the fact that, in addition to he marks + } of some of the participants who were unable to sign their own ames, here are names written out in a different hand than Father Hott. r John L ----Original Message----- rom: Russell Dorr <russelldorr@yahoo.com> n this page, there are two baptisms of two sons of Joseph Thibodeau & rie-Josephte Coté, one for Firmin Thèodule, the other for Simon axime, both 18 Mar 1806. What is odd is that it seems Firmin was born 12 Jan 800, Simon 28 Jul 1800. Can anyone figure out what is going on here? The URL is t the d. anks, d Dorr . earch the Archives: ttp://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=QUEBEC rowse the Archives: ttp://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/QUEBEC/ link to a favorite site: ttp://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~unclefred/main.htm ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to QUEBEC-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message earch the Archives: ttp://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=QUEBEC rowse the Archives: ttp://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/QUEBEC/ link to a favorite site: ttp://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~unclefred/main.htm ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to QUEBEC-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message