Aimed to send to the list so forwarding. Jean Leeper grannyroots@iowatelecom.net Sent from my iPad Begin forwarded message: > From: grannyroots <grannyroots@iowatelecom.net> > Date: May 29, 2013, 9:07:10 AM EDT > To: Thomas Hamm <tomh@earlham.edu> > Subject: Re: [Q-R] Quaker burials---questions > > Salem Iowa Quakers at first in the 1830-1850s buried in order of death, some with no stones and some with simple stones. At Cedar Creek Friends Cemetery, near Salem, as far as our records go back ca 1900 we have sold lots and buried anyone in the neighborhood. In 1906 when we enlarged the cemetery both members and non members were asked to give money by subscription. Many have some ties back to the Quakers. Records lost per 1900 but first burial in 1841. > > Jean Leeper > grannyroots@iowatelecom.net > Sent from my iPad > > > On May 29, 2013, at 9:27 AM, Thomas Hamm <tomh@earlham.edu> wrote: > >> Here in Indiana at least some Friends burial places sell plots. Fall Creek, near Pendleton, is one. The proceeds of the sales are used for upkeep. >> >> Fall Creek has two sections--the original burial ground, which dates to the 1830s, and a newer section laid out about 1900. When my wife and I bought plots there, we were told that if we wanted to be buried in the old graveyard the plots were $5 apiece. They are more expensive in the new section. >> >> Tom Hamm >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Seth Hinshaw" <sethhinshaw@yahoo.com> >> To: KTompk7744@aol.com, mosesm@earthlink.net, quaker-roots@rootsweb.com >> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:08:36 AM >> Subject: Re: [Q-R] Quaker burials---questions >> >> Jan - I have never heard of a Friends meeting selling burial plots. I know of one instance where a burial ground was full, and someone (a non-member) purchased an adjacent parcel of land and donated it so that he could be buried there. >> >> In Ohio Yearly Meeting, we mostly retain the process of burying people in the next available location. However, in several instances in North Carolina YM (FUM), the local meeting has plotted out the burial ground to allow families members to be buried together. >> >> Seth >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: "KTompk7744@aol.com" <KTompk7744@aol.com> >> To: mosesm@earthlink.net; quaker-roots@rootsweb.com >> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 7:41 AM >> Subject: [Q-R] Quaker burials---questions >> >> >> Now you folks have got me thinking about cemetery plots. I don't know >> how the Quakers handle such things, but the cemeteries I'm familiar with SELL >> the individual gravesites to folks. Thus the individual gravesites are >> owned (sooner or later) by individuals. And the cemetery wouldn't be able >> to refuse to allow a burial unless it was an extraordinary situation. >> >> Maybe the Quakers were above such mundane commerce, but my cemetery plot >> consists of two side-by-side lots in the Bethel Baptist Church cemetery, for >> which I paid a very reasonable sum, and I have a letter of title showing >> which two lots they are. The cemetery association, related to the church, >> didn't ask if I were a member or if anybody in the family was. >> Theoretically I could have bought four or five plots in a certain spot. >> >> It might be interesting to know whether burial sites for the Quakers were >> free and whether you got to reserve a specific location for your family. >> >> JanT >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> In a message dated 5/28/2013 8:54:01 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >> mosesm@earthlink.net writes: >> >> I think that if one thinks about it with a cool head and logic, you KNOW >> that there are non-quakers buried in the quaker burial grounds. Sharon's >> example is a good one: >> >>> My grandmother's uncle, Joseph Jinnett, was buried at Pilot Grove, >> Vermilion Co., Illinois when he died from a wound suffered during the Civil War. >> He had been disowned, but was buried there nevertheless. >> >> Who is going to tell that distraught mother that she can not bury her son >> in the same cemetery as her mother...her father... her grandmother....fill >> in the blank... >> >> I can not prove that my 5-gr-grandmother, Sarah Moore McKinsey, was buried >> in the Bush River Cemetery. It gives me a great deal of comfort to think >> that indeed her family buried her near Nehemiah Thomas and probably a few >> children who had been buried there ....before the family moved to Ohio. The >> family was no longer Quaker....I know this for sure because a >> daughter-in-law was dis for marrying a McKinsey son. But I believe that the family had >> been Quaker in an earlier generation. And that it is possible that they >> were still attending ...don't know....but when I think about burying my own, >> I think about how I would want them to be among family. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> QUAKER-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject >> and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to QUAKER-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to QUAKER-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to QUAKER-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Now you folks have got me thinking about cemetery plots. I don't know how the Quakers handle such things, but the cemeteries I'm familiar with SELL the individual gravesites to folks. Thus the individual gravesites are owned (sooner or later) by individuals. And the cemetery wouldn't be able to refuse to allow a burial unless it was an extraordinary situation. Maybe the Quakers were above such mundane commerce, but my cemetery plot consists of two side-by-side lots in the Bethel Baptist Church cemetery, for which I paid a very reasonable sum, and I have a letter of title showing which two lots they are. The cemetery association, related to the church, didn't ask if I were a member or if anybody in the family was. Theoretically I could have bought four or five plots in a certain spot. It might be interesting to know whether burial sites for the Quakers were free and whether you got to reserve a specific location for your family. JanT In a message dated 5/28/2013 8:54:01 P.M. Central Daylight Time, mosesm@earthlink.net writes: I think that if one thinks about it with a cool head and logic, you KNOW that there are non-quakers buried in the quaker burial grounds. Sharon's example is a good one: > My grandmother's uncle, Joseph Jinnett, was buried at Pilot Grove, Vermilion Co., Illinois when he died from a wound suffered during the Civil War. He had been disowned, but was buried there nevertheless. Who is going to tell that distraught mother that she can not bury her son in the same cemetery as her mother...her father... her grandmother....fill in the blank... I can not prove that my 5-gr-grandmother, Sarah Moore McKinsey, was buried in the Bush River Cemetery. It gives me a great deal of comfort to think that indeed her family buried her near Nehemiah Thomas and probably a few children who had been buried there ....before the family moved to Ohio. The family was no longer Quaker....I know this for sure because a daughter-in-law was dis for marrying a McKinsey son. But I believe that the family had been Quaker in an earlier generation. And that it is possible that they were still attending ...don't know....but when I think about burying my own, I think about how I would want them to be among family. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to QUAKER-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Jan - I have never heard of a Friends meeting selling burial plots. I know of one instance where a burial ground was full, and someone (a non-member) purchased an adjacent parcel of land and donated it so that he could be buried there.  In Ohio Yearly Meeting, we mostly retain the process of burying people in the next available location. However, in several instances in North Carolina YM (FUM), the local meeting has plotted out the burial ground to allow families members to be buried together.  Seth  ________________________________ From: "KTompk7744@aol.com" <KTompk7744@aol.com> To: mosesm@earthlink.net; quaker-roots@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 7:41 AM Subject: [Q-R] Quaker burials---questions Now you folks have got me thinking about cemetery plots.  I  don't know how the Quakers handle such things, but the cemeteries I'm familiar  with SELL the individual gravesites to folks.  Thus the individual  gravesites are owned (sooner or later) by individuals.  And the  cemetery wouldn't be able to refuse to allow a burial unless it was an  extraordinary situation.    Maybe the Quakers were above such mundane commerce, but my cemetery plot  consists of two side-by-side lots in the Bethel Baptist Church cemetery, for  which I paid a very reasonable sum, and I have a letter of title showing  which two lots they are.  The cemetery association, related to the church,  didn't ask if I were a member or if anybody in the family was.    Theoretically I could have bought four or five plots in a certain  spot.  It might be interesting to know whether burial sites for the Quakers were  free and whether you got to reserve a specific location for your family. JanT In a message dated 5/28/2013 8:54:01 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  mosesm@earthlink.net writes: I think  that if one thinks about it with a cool head and logic, you KNOW that there  are non-quakers buried in the quaker burial grounds.  Sharon's example is  a good one: > My grandmother's uncle, Joseph Jinnett, was buried at  Pilot Grove, Vermilion Co., Illinois when he died from a wound suffered during  the Civil War. He had been disowned, but was buried there  nevertheless. Who is going to tell that distraught mother that she can  not bury her son in the same cemetery as her mother...her father... her  grandmother....fill in the blank... I can not prove that my  5-gr-grandmother, Sarah Moore McKinsey, was buried in the Bush River  Cemetery.  It gives me a great deal of comfort to think that indeed her  family buried her near Nehemiah Thomas and probably a few children who had  been buried there ....before the family moved to Ohio.  The family was no  longer Quaker....I know this for sure because a daughter-in-law was dis for  marrying a McKinsey son.  But I believe that the family had been Quaker  in an earlier generation.  And that it is possible that they were still  attending ...don't know....but when I think about burying my own, I think  about how I would want them to be among  family. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from  the list, please send an email to QUAKER-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the  word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the  message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to QUAKER-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Disownment did not mean banishment. Disowned individuals were not allowed to attend/participate the business sessions, but otherwise allowed to continue to participate in the Quaker community. Disowned or Non-Quakers could be buried in most Quaker burial grounds as long as their survivors agreed to the rules concerning headstones and funerals, but these burials usually were not recorded. > From: barbarademare@yahoo.com > Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 09:31:12 +0300 > To: mosesm@earthlink.net > CC: quaker-roots@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [Q-R] Quaker Burial > > My non-Quaker grandparents are buried in a Quaker Cemetery > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 29, 2013, at 4:48 AM, marsha moses <mosesm@earthlink.net> wrote: > > > I think that if one thinks about it with a cool head and logic, you KNOW that there are non-quakers buried in the quaker burial grounds. Sharon's example is a good one: > > > >> My grandmother's uncle, Joseph Jinnett, was buried at Pilot Grove, Vermilion Co., Illinois when he died from a wound suffered during the Civil War. He had been disowned, but was buried there nevertheless. > > > > Who is going to tell that distraught mother that she can not bury her son in the same cemetery as her mother...her father... her grandmother....fill in the blank... > > > > I can not prove that my 5-gr-grandmother, Sarah Moore McKinsey, was buried in the Bush River Cemetery. It gives me a great deal of comfort to think that indeed her family buried her near Nehemiah Thomas and probably a few children who had been buried there ....before the family moved to Ohio. The family was no longer Quaker....I know this for sure because a daughter-in-law was dis for marrying a McKinsey son. But I believe that the family had been Quaker in an earlier generation. And that it is possible that they were still attending ...don't know....but when I think about burying my own, I think about how I would want them to be among family. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to QUAKER-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to QUAKER-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I think that if one thinks about it with a cool head and logic, you KNOW that there are non-quakers buried in the quaker burial grounds. Sharon's example is a good one: > My grandmother's uncle, Joseph Jinnett, was buried at Pilot Grove, Vermilion Co., Illinois when he died from a wound suffered during the Civil War. He had been disowned, but was buried there nevertheless. Who is going to tell that distraught mother that she can not bury her son in the same cemetery as her mother...her father... her grandmother....fill in the blank... I can not prove that my 5-gr-grandmother, Sarah Moore McKinsey, was buried in the Bush River Cemetery. It gives me a great deal of comfort to think that indeed her family buried her near Nehemiah Thomas and probably a few children who had been buried there ....before the family moved to Ohio. The family was no longer Quaker....I know this for sure because a daughter-in-law was dis for marrying a McKinsey son. But I believe that the family had been Quaker in an earlier generation. And that it is possible that they were still attending ...don't know....but when I think about burying my own, I think about how I would want them to be among family.

I recently came across a list of "Certificates Received At Chester Monthly Meeting" 1681-1750, in the "Literary Era," Jan. 1898, Vol. 5, page 377, with two certificates of interest. I think ACM edited the list. No. 64, "Joseph Helsby and wife, dated 9mo. 26, 1711, from our Monthly Meeting held at Newton, Cheshire, England" I've found some references that a Joseph Helsby may have known Peter Cook, more over they may have collaborated on traveling to America and may have made arraignments to stay with Joseph upon arrival in 1713. I have no proof, but it would help explain the relative ease with which Elinor, now a widow, and the children had after arriving without Peter. No. 99 "Elinor Cook, 1mo. 29, 1714, from Frandley Monthly Meeting, Cheshire, England." Does anyone know if these listings mean there are actual certificates? If it is possible to get copies, who would I contact? Thanks, Robert Cooke

Henry Tyson and Mary Gillingham are said to have married at Gunpowder Monthly Meeting 13 May 1847. I have no reason to doubt this information but wonder if anyone has a copy/transcript of the original record. One of their daughters was Mary Gittings Tyson. I wonder whey she was given the middle name Gittings. (1937) John Gillingham, son of James and Elizabeth (Hayward) Gillingham, was born 3-31-1787 and died 6-11-1848. He married 9-21-1814 Mary Updegraff - Child: ... Mary Gillingham, was born 8-14-1825 and died 1-26-1892. She married [5-13-1847] Henry Tyson. [THE MOORE-TYSON FAMILY Ed. Henry Ferris (1937) page 8 & 9, citing Records in possession of descendants] Richard Williams 30 King Street WINTERTON North Lincolnshire DN15 9TP 01724 737254 sylvanus@rahwilliams.orangehome.co.uk

Hello all, I had posted before about Quaker Records from Smithfield, RI. However, the meeting house is closed and I am not able to get anyone. Does anyone know how I could get records for my Inman family members? Thanks, Brenda (Michigan)

The original records are stored at the Rhode Island Historical Society in Providence. Many volumes have been microfilmed by the Genealogical Society of Utah and could be called out to any Family History Center in a local LDS church. I invite other Q-R Listers to write me off list to explain to me how one could find these on FamilySearch.org . https://www.quakermeetings.com/Plone/meeting_view?anID=338 Tom Hill Thomas C. Hill Charlottesville, VA 22901-6355 U.S.A. formerly Cincinnati, OH www.QuakerMeetings.com E-mail: MonthlyMeetings@gmail.com -----Original Message----- From: quaker-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com On Behalf Of Brenda Ozog Sent: Tuesday, 28 May, 2013 8:53 AM To: quaker-roots@rootsweb.com Subject: [Q-R] Smithfield, Rhode Island Hello all, I had posted before about Quaker Records from Smithfield, RI. However, the meeting house is closed and I am not able to get anyone. Does anyone know how I could get records for my Inman family members? Thanks, Brenda (Michigan)

My grandmother's uncle, Joseph Jinnett, was buried at Pilot Grove, Vermilion Co., Illinois when he died from a wound suffered during the Civil War. He had been disowned, but was buried there nevertheless. Sharon Seaver On May 27, 2013, at 8:18 PM, Seth Hinshaw wrote: > Interesting. Ohio YM did not have this provision in its Discipline. Many of our burial ground plots show areas where non-members are buried in addition to some former members (disowned). Chesterfield has a section for local blacks who had escaped on the Underground Railroad. > > The issue of tombstones is interesting. Sandwich (Massachusetts) has tombstones dating to the early 1700s. Philadelphia and Ohio banned them, but attempts to change the restriction were challenged from time to time. After a failed attempt in Ohio, some Friends at Short Creek created an adjacent private burial ground for members who wanted tombstones (1830s). A member at Stillwater has a tombstone that had been removed from the burial ground during a time when a committee removed them. Another tombstone was later installed to mark that particular burial. And, of course, Joshua Maule, who vocally opposed tombstones, has one where he is buried and one at an adjacent burial ground where he is not buried. > > Seth > > > ________________________________ > From: Bob Cooke <cookerl3@aol.com> > To: treadway@netins.net; quaker-roots@rootsweb.com > Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 6:52 PM > Subject: Re: [Q-R] Quaker Funerals > > > > > Thanks Dan, > > In 1806, without multiple signed written permission, burials of non-members was expressly forbidden in a Friend's Burial Grounds. The use of headstones of any type was not permitted and if one was found, it was to be removed immediately. Pretty serious stuff. ...Is there a latest edition of the Book of Discipline?... > > According to Wikipedia: > > "Philadelphia Yearly Meeting published their Rules of Discipline of the Yearly Meeting of Friends held in Philadelphia in 1806, with paragraphs on each of the main practices and testimonies of Friends in that Yearly Meeting arranged in alphabetical order. The title Faith and Practice was first applied to Philadelphia Yearly Meeting's book of discipline in 1955 and it was revised in 1972, 1979, and 1997, with minor revisions in 2002" So, technically, these and other rules may still be on the books/active? > > rlc > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel W Treadway <treadway@netins.net> > To: Bob Cooke <cookerl3@aol.com>; quaker-roots <quaker-roots@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sat, May 25, 2013 4:55 pm > Subject: Re: [Q-R] Quaker Funerals > > > On Thu, 23 May 2013 20:23:54 -0400 (EDT) > Bob Cooke <cookerl3@aol.com> wrote: >> >> >> How does a Quaker funeral differ from a regular Christian funeral? >> Do Friends allow dedications or eulogies for the departed or is it >> silent as they are during meeting? Would the dedication or eulogy be >> given by a "minister" or as in meeting, there is no "minister" and >> someone would just rise and begin speaking? Is there a timeframe for >> the length of a service, could they last 60 to 90 minutes or longer? >> Is there a timeframe for the actual burial? Early on many Quakers >> were buried in unmarked graves, so it seems they didn't want any type >> of recognition. Would this lack of recognition discipline prevent >> dedications and/or eulogies from being given? Could someone be >> disowned for giving one? >> >> Thank you, >> Robert Cooke >> > > Bob, the 1806 Philadelphia Yearly Meeting Book of Discipline is > available on line at http://www.qhpress.org/texts/obod/index.html. > Click on the link for Births and Burials to see that section. > > -- > Dan Treadway > P. O. Box 72 Gilbert IA 50105 > treadway@netins.net > http://showcase.netins.net/web/treadway/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to QUAKER-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to QUAKER-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Am I correct in assuming you're descended from the immigrant Joseph English, Sr. (d. 1686)? If so, I'd be happy to compare notes. He's my 9g grandfather (two ways). jeff -----Original Message----- >From: "nastrovia@juno.com" <nastrovia@juno.com> >Sent: May 26, 2013 8:07 PM >To: cookerl3@aol.com >Cc: PRIMOPRIMO@aol.com, thesherers@charter.net, ILCLARK-L-request@rootsweb.com, quaker-roots@rootsweb.com, wcj.camille@yahoo.com, rlscott130@gmail.com, aenglish@humana.com >Subject: Re: [Q-R] Friendly Persuasion > >My grandmother on my father's side was an ENGLISH. The ENGLISHes were Quakers from the Cotswold Hills area of southwestern England > New Jersey & Pennsylvania > Illinois. I am the seventh child of 8 children. I always thought it was my CRAIG family that had lots of children. Now, I think it was my Quaker ENGLISHes. I wonder what Pastor Philip Gulley of Fairfield Friends Meeting House in Camby, Indiana would have to say on Quakers and having many children. Deane Craig in Pahrump, NV Jeff Palmer jap@psualum.com

Interesting. Ohio YM did not have this provision in its Discipline. Many of our burial ground plots show areas where non-members are buried in addition to some former members (disowned). Chesterfield has a section for local blacks who had escaped on the Underground Railroad.  The issue of tombstones is interesting. Sandwich (Massachusetts) has tombstones dating to the early 1700s. Philadelphia and Ohio banned them, but attempts to change the restriction were challenged from time to time. After a failed attempt in Ohio, some Friends at Short Creek created an adjacent private burial ground for members who wanted tombstones (1830s). A member at Stillwater has a tombstone that had been removed from the burial ground during a time when a committee removed them. Another tombstone was later installed to mark that particular burial. And, of course, Joshua Maule, who vocally opposed tombstones, has one where he is buried and one at an adjacent burial ground where he is not buried.  Seth  ________________________________ From: Bob Cooke <cookerl3@aol.com> To: treadway@netins.net; quaker-roots@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [Q-R] Quaker Funerals Thanks Dan, In 1806, without multiple signed written permission, burials of non-members was expressly forbidden in a Friend's Burial Grounds. The use of headstones of any type was not permitted and if one was found, it was to be removed immediately. Pretty serious stuff. ...Is there a latest edition of the Book of Discipline?... According to Wikipedia: "Philadelphia Yearly Meeting published their Rules of Discipline of the Yearly Meeting of Friends held in Philadelphia in 1806, with paragraphs on each of the main practices and testimonies of Friends in that Yearly Meeting arranged in alphabetical order. The title Faith and Practice was first applied to Philadelphia Yearly Meeting's book of discipline in 1955 and it was revised in 1972, 1979, and 1997, with minor revisions in 2002"  So, technically, these and other rules may still be on the books/active? rlc -----Original Message----- From: Daniel W Treadway <treadway@netins.net> To: Bob Cooke <cookerl3@aol.com>; quaker-roots <quaker-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sat, May 25, 2013 4:55 pm Subject: Re: [Q-R] Quaker Funerals On Thu, 23 May 2013 20:23:54 -0400 (EDT)   Bob Cooke <cookerl3@aol.com> wrote: > > > How does a Quaker funeral differ from a regular Christian funeral? >Do Friends allow dedications or eulogies for the departed or is it >silent as they are during meeting? Would the dedication or eulogy be >given by a "minister" or as in meeting, there is no "minister" and >someone would just rise and begin speaking? Is there a timeframe for >the length of a service, could they last 60 to 90 minutes or longer? >Is there a timeframe for the actual burial? Early on many Quakers >were buried in unmarked graves, so it seems they didn't want any type >of recognition. Would this lack of recognition discipline prevent >dedications and/or eulogies from being given? Could someone be >disowned for giving one? > > Thank you, > Robert Cooke > Bob, the 1806 Philadelphia Yearly Meeting Book of Discipline is available on line at http://www.qhpress.org/texts/obod/index.html. Click on the link for Births and Burials to see that section. -- Dan Treadway P. O. Box 72 Gilbert IA 50105 treadway@netins.net http://showcase.netins.net/web/treadway/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to QUAKER-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I recommend you read (Mary) Jessamyn West's "The Friendly Persausion," the 1946 book on which the the movie was based. It's a funny and sentimental collection of stories of Quaker life in rural Indiana in the mid-1800s. I've read it several times and still find joy in it. West was born in Jennings County, Indiana but moved with her family to Southern California at the age of six. She was inspired by the stories told by her mother and grandmother of their time in Indiana. The characters of Jess and Eliza Birdwell were based on her Milhous grandparents. West was a second cousin of Richard Nixon and a descendant of many early Pennsylvania Quakers, including George Maris born 1632 and Benjamin Mendenhall. She is my ninth cousin. Eleanor Rayl Sent from my iPad > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 17:06:07 -0400 (EDT) > From: Bob Cooke <cookerl3@aol.com> > Subject: Re: [Q-R] William Penn Movie > To: quaker-roots@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <8D0286BF98AC1C1-E68-1EA1D@webmail-vd018.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > Yesterday I watched "Friendly Persuasion" with Gary Cooper who played "Jess" (Jesse) Birdwell, a Quaker family in Indiana in the early 1860's. It was interesting the way Hollywood tried to explain some of the basic beliefs and ways of Friends. And a little more subtly expressing the humor of Friends' and the enjoyment Quakers have of sex. I learned that the large families the early Quakers had was because of the mortality rate of children and to a lesser extant for the personal to run larger farms in the future, which are true, but I think the Quakers enjoyed themselves and used this more as an excuse to have as many children as they could. Expressed by the scenes where "Jess & Eliza" happily spend the night in the barn on a pile of hay. After which Jess even mentioned they must do that again, soon. I think Hollywood tried to convey the large families without having 10 or 12 or more children, by having a wide spread in age between the oldest and youngest of the 3 children ! in! > the family. This movie was made the year I was born 1956. > > Robert Cooke

It's important to keep in mind that monthly meetings didn't always follow the letter of the Discipline. A number of burying grounds permitted marked graves, even if they were supposed to be under the ban. Others followed the rules strictly. I've found in Philadelphia Yearly Meeting, for example, that at London Grove in Chester County almost no grave markers before 1850 are to be found. But to the north, also in Chester County at Old Caln, there are numerous markers before 1850. Some Friends meetings today restrict burial to members simply because space is limited. I don't know of any that still ban tombstones. Most yearly meetings began allowing small, plain stones in the 1850s. Tom Hamm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Cooke" <cookerl3@aol.com> To: treadway@netins.net, quaker-roots@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 6:52:29 PM Subject: Re: [Q-R] Quaker Funerals Thanks Dan, In 1806, without multiple signed written permission, burials of non-members was expressly forbidden in a Friend's Burial Grounds. The use of headstones of any type was not permitted and if one was found, it was to be removed immediately. Pretty serious stuff. ...Is there a latest edition of the Book of Discipline?... According to Wikipedia: "Philadelphia Yearly Meeting published their Rules of Discipline of the Yearly Meeting of Friends held in Philadelphia in 1806, with paragraphs on each of the main practices and testimonies of Friends in that Yearly Meeting arranged in alphabetical order. The title Faith and Practice was first applied to Philadelphia Yearly Meeting's book of discipline in 1955 and it was revised in 1972, 1979, and 1997, with minor revisions in 2002" So, technically, these and other rules may still be on the books/active? rlc -----Original Message----- From: Daniel W Treadway <treadway@netins.net> To: Bob Cooke <cookerl3@aol.com>; quaker-roots <quaker-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sat, May 25, 2013 4:55 pm Subject: Re: [Q-R] Quaker Funerals On Thu, 23 May 2013 20:23:54 -0400 (EDT) Bob Cooke <cookerl3@aol.com> wrote: > > > How does a Quaker funeral differ from a regular Christian funeral? >Do Friends allow dedications or eulogies for the departed or is it >silent as they are during meeting? Would the dedication or eulogy be >given by a "minister" or as in meeting, there is no "minister" and >someone would just rise and begin speaking? Is there a timeframe for >the length of a service, could they last 60 to 90 minutes or longer? >Is there a timeframe for the actual burial? Early on many Quakers >were buried in unmarked graves, so it seems they didn't want any type >of recognition. Would this lack of recognition discipline prevent >dedications and/or eulogies from being given? Could someone be >disowned for giving one? > > Thank you, > Robert Cooke > Bob, the 1806 Philadelphia Yearly Meeting Book of Discipline is available on line at http://www.qhpress.org/texts/obod/index.html. Click on the link for Births and Burials to see that section. -- Dan Treadway P. O. Box 72 Gilbert IA 50105 treadway@netins.net http://showcase.netins.net/web/treadway/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to QUAKER-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My grandmother on my father's side was an ENGLISH. The ENGLISHes were Quakers from the Cotswold Hills area of southwestern England > New Jersey & Pennsylvania > Illinois. I am the seventh child of 8 children. I always thought it was my CRAIG family that had lots of children. Now, I think it was my Quaker ENGLISHes. I wonder what Pastor Philip Gulley of Fairfield Friends Meeting House in Camby, Indiana would have to say on Quakers and having many children. Deane Craig in Pahrump, NV ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Bob Cooke <cookerl3@aol.com> To: quaker-roots@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Q-R] William Penn Movie Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 17:06:07 -0400 (EDT) Yesterday I watched "Friendly Persuasion" with Gary Cooper who played "Jess" (Jesse) Birdwell, a Quaker family in Indiana in the early 1860's. It was interesting the way Hollywood tried to explain some of the basic beliefs and ways of Friends. And a little more subtly expressing the humor of Friends' and the enjoyment Quakers have of sex. I learned that the large families the early Quakers had was because of the mortality rate of children and to a lesser extant for the personal to run larger farms in the future, which are true, but I think the Quakers enjoyed themselves and used this more as an excuse to have as many children as they could. Expressed by the scenes where "Jess & Eliza" happily spend the night in the barn on a pile of hay. After which Jess even mentioned they must do that again, soon. I think Hollywood tried to convey the large families without having 10 or 12 or more children, by having a wide spread in age between the oldest and youngest of the 3 children in! the family. This movie was made the year I was born 1956. Robert Cooke ____________________________________________________________ NetZero now offers 4G mobile broadband. Sign up now. http://www.netzero.net/?refcd=NZINTISP0512T4GOUT1

Thanks Dan, In 1806, without multiple signed written permission, burials of non-members was expressly forbidden in a Friend's Burial Grounds. The use of headstones of any type was not permitted and if one was found, it was to be removed immediately. Pretty serious stuff. ...Is there a latest edition of the Book of Discipline?... According to Wikipedia: "Philadelphia Yearly Meeting published their Rules of Discipline of the Yearly Meeting of Friends held in Philadelphia in 1806, with paragraphs on each of the main practices and testimonies of Friends in that Yearly Meeting arranged in alphabetical order. The title Faith and Practice was first applied to Philadelphia Yearly Meeting's book of discipline in 1955 and it was revised in 1972, 1979, and 1997, with minor revisions in 2002" So, technically, these and other rules may still be on the books/active? rlc -----Original Message----- From: Daniel W Treadway <treadway@netins.net> To: Bob Cooke <cookerl3@aol.com>; quaker-roots <quaker-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sat, May 25, 2013 4:55 pm Subject: Re: [Q-R] Quaker Funerals On Thu, 23 May 2013 20:23:54 -0400 (EDT) Bob Cooke <cookerl3@aol.com> wrote: > > > How does a Quaker funeral differ from a regular Christian funeral? >Do Friends allow dedications or eulogies for the departed or is it >silent as they are during meeting? Would the dedication or eulogy be >given by a "minister" or as in meeting, there is no "minister" and >someone would just rise and begin speaking? Is there a timeframe for >the length of a service, could they last 60 to 90 minutes or longer? >Is there a timeframe for the actual burial? Early on many Quakers >were buried in unmarked graves, so it seems they didn't want any type >of recognition. Would this lack of recognition discipline prevent >dedications and/or eulogies from being given? Could someone be >disowned for giving one? > > Thank you, > Robert Cooke > Bob, the 1806 Philadelphia Yearly Meeting Book of Discipline is available on line at http://www.qhpress.org/texts/obod/index.html. Click on the link for Births and Burials to see that section. -- Dan Treadway P. O. Box 72 Gilbert IA 50105 treadway@netins.net http://showcase.netins.net/web/treadway/

Friendly Persuasion is also on YouTube [free]. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wah8xvWifhk What I did not know when I first saw the movie when I was young [I was born in 1946], is that I descend from early Rhode Island Quakers, one Dr. Thomas Rodman and his second wife, Patience Easton Malines (among others, but the Rodman surname came down to my paternal grandmother's generation).  They are buried at Clifton Burying Ground, Newport, RI (but whoever put the info online has the wrong birth location for the first Dr. Thomas; his son, the second Dr. Thomas was born in RI, but the elder Dr. Thomas Rodman was apparently born in England; the family did not move to Barbados until after the father, John Rodman, left England after becoming a convert to the teachings of George Fox and spent three months in gaol for wearing his hat in the courtroom of Judge Thomas Lauder who proscribed and banished him from Ireland, whereupon John Rodman and his family moved to Barbados).  The same book for which I paid dearly for a reprint (before Google Books and Internet Archive existed) is now online for a free download on two web sites: Genealogy of the Rodman Family 1620-1886, by Charles Henry Jones http://archive.org/details/genealogyofrodma00jone http://books.google.com/books?id=uJRPAAAAMAAJ In 50+ years of doing genealogy research with documented ancestors from seven different countries, I have discovered that children are born on an average of 22-26 months apart, so women gave birth every two years under normal circumstances (< repeat: "under normal circumstances").  Any variation in that pattern, and I go in search of records of stillbirths or infant birth/death records (easy to do in three countries where records are online back to the 1600s)..., or, sadly, a maternal childbed fever death along with the infant's death, and then a record of a second marriage.  On 30 January 1906 my paternal grandmother, who was a midwife, gave birth to a boy child who lived for four hours.  On 30 December 1906, she gave birth to my eldest paternal aunt who lived to old age..., so two children born eleven months apart in the same year.  I didn't find out about those first four children born between the marriage date in 1901 and my eldest aunt's birth in 1906 until after the MN birth index was put online, and added birth and death records for four more children.  In all, I have birth records for 13 children; five were either stillbirths or infant deaths, eight lived to adulthood (they're now all dead, too).  Mostly I have records of children born every two years.  There's enough time between a couple of later births for one or two miscarriages, but I have no records to prove that and my paternal grandmother died when I was a baby so I had no chance to ask her about other pregnancies. Best Wishes, Bev Anderson ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Cooke <cookerl3@aol.com> To: quaker-roots@rootsweb.com Cc: Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 4:06 PM Subject: Re: [Q-R] William Penn Movie Yesterday I watched "Friendly Persuasion" with Gary Cooper who played "Jess" (Jesse) Birdwell, a Quaker family in Indiana in the early 1860's. It was interesting the way Hollywood tried to explain some of the basic beliefs and ways of Friends. And a little more subtly expressing the humor of Friends' and the enjoyment Quakers have of sex. I learned that the large families the early Quakers had was because of the mortality rate of children and to a lesser extant for the personal to run larger farms in the future, which are true, but I think the Quakers enjoyed themselves and used this more as an excuse to have as many children as they could. Expressed by the scenes where "Jess & Eliza" happily spend the night in the barn on a pile of hay. After which Jess even mentioned they must do that again, soon. I think Hollywood tried to convey the large families without having 10 or 12 or more children, by having a wide spread in age between the oldest and youngest of the 3 children in!   the family. This movie was made the year I was born 1956. Robert Cooke ~~~~~~~~~~~~

Friendly Persuasion is also on YouTube [free]. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wah8xvWifhk What I did not know when I first saw the movie when I was young [I was born in 1946], is that I descend from early Rhode Island Quakers, one Dr. Thomas Rodman and his second wife, Patience Easton Malines (among others, but the Rodman surname came down to my paternal grandmother's generation).  They are buried at Clifton Burying Ground, Newport, RI (but whoever put the info online has the wrong birth location for the first Dr. Thomas; his son, the second Dr. Thomas was born in RI, but the elder Dr. Thomas Rodman was apparently born in England; the family did not move to Barbados until after the father, John Rodman, left England after becoming a convert to the teachings of George Fox and spent three months in gaol for wearing his hat in the courtroom of Judge Thomas Lauder who proscribed and banished him from Ireland, whereupon John Rodman and his family moved to Barbados).  The same book for which I paid dearly for a reprint (before Google Books and Internet Archive existed) is now online for a free download on two web sites: Genealogy of the Rodman Family 1620-1886, by Charles Henry Jones http://archive.org/details/genealogyofrodma00jone http://books.google.com/books?id=uJRPAAAAMAAJ In 50+ years of doing genealogy research with documented ancestors from seven different countries, I have discovered that children are born on an average of 22-26 months apart, so women gave birth every two years under normal circumstances (< repeat: "under normal circumstances").  Any variation in that pattern, and I go in search of records of stillbirths or infant birth/death records (easy to do in three countries where records are online back to the 1600s)..., or, sadly, a maternal childbed fever death along with the infant's death, and then a record of a second marriage.  On 30 January 1906 my paternal grandmother, who was a midwife, gave birth to a boy child who lived for four hours.  On 30 December 1906, she gave birth to my eldest paternal aunt who lived to old age..., so two children born eleven months apart in the same year.  I didn't find out about those first four children born between the marriage date in 1901 and my eldest aunt's birth in 1906 until after the MN birth index was put online, and added birth and death records for four more children.  In all, I have birth records for 13 children; five were either stillbirths or infant deaths, eight lived to adulthood (they're now all dead, too).  Mostly I have records of children born every two years.  There's enough time between a couple of later births for one or two miscarriages, but I have no records to prove that and my paternal grandmother died when I was a baby so I had no chance to ask her about other pregnancies. Best Wishes, Bev Anderson ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Cooke <cookerl3@aol.com> To: quaker-roots@rootsweb.com Cc: Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 4:06 PM Subject: Re: [Q-R] William Penn Movie Yesterday I watched "Friendly Persuasion" with Gary Cooper who played "Jess" (Jesse) Birdwell, a Quaker family in Indiana in the early 1860's. It was interesting the way Hollywood tried to explain some of the basic beliefs and ways of Friends. And a little more subtly expressing the humor of Friends' and the enjoyment Quakers have of sex. I learned that the large families the early Quakers had was because of the mortality rate of children and to a lesser extant for the personal to run larger farms in the future, which are true, but I think the Quakers enjoyed themselves and used this more as an excuse to have as many children as they could. Expressed by the scenes where "Jess & Eliza" happily spend the night in the barn on a pile of hay. After which Jess even mentioned they must do that again, soon. I think Hollywood tried to convey the large families without having 10 or 12 or more children, by having a wide spread in age between the oldest and youngest of the 3 children in!   the family. This movie was made the year I was born 1956. Robert Cooke ~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yesterday I watched "Friendly Persuasion" with Gary Cooper who played "Jess" (Jesse) Birdwell, a Quaker family in Indiana in the early 1860's. It was interesting the way Hollywood tried to explain some of the basic beliefs and ways of Friends. And a little more subtly expressing the humor of Friends' and the enjoyment Quakers have of sex. I learned that the large families the early Quakers had was because of the mortality rate of children and to a lesser extant for the personal to run larger farms in the future, which are true, but I think the Quakers enjoyed themselves and used this more as an excuse to have as many children as they could. Expressed by the scenes where "Jess & Eliza" happily spend the night in the barn on a pile of hay. After which Jess even mentioned they must do that again, soon. I think Hollywood tried to convey the large families without having 10 or 12 or more children, by having a wide spread in age between the oldest and youngest of the 3 children in the family. This movie was made the year I was born 1956. Robert Cooke ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 17:27:16 -0500 From: Forrest Plumstead <fplum1@gmail.com> Subject: [Q-R] William Penn Movie For those who have Netflix, they have a 1942 movie named "Penn of Pennsylvania"

For those who have Netflix, they have a 1942 movie named "Penn of Pennsylvania" -- 73 WB5HQO Forre st Ham Radio WB5HQO <http://forrest.3h.com/main.html> Plumstead and Associated Families<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fplum/> Webmaster for BUSH RIVER QUAKER CEMETERY<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bushriverquakers/Index.html> NAQCC Member # 3678 FPQRP # 2642 SKCC Member # 6855 QRPadillo # 59