Thank you all very much for you information. I know some of your practices, but this will help me in the research I am doing, especially since I just found an abstract of a will that may mean that I am on the wrong track with one person whose childhood family is my brickwall. I am LDS and we do not shun either; if someone is excommunicated for a serious sin, or disfellowshiped for a less serious one, we do all we can to help them come back through a genuine repentance process. It is nice to hear from so many of you- thanks for all of the answers- I answered each one directly, but it looks like you can't do that on this list. Tomorrow I am on my way to the workshop to crack my brickwall, hopefully. Thanks again, Sue Maxwell

No, Friends did not require parents to cut off ties with children who had lost their membership. I have seen one case recorded in the journal of a New Work minister, Eleazar Haviland, in the early 1820s of a father who refused to speak to a son who had married out of meeting. Eleazar felt led to visit the father and try to convince him that he was wrong. A parent could choose to leave a child out of the will for any reason, but that was not a Quaker requirement. Tom Hamm If a son of a Quaker family chose to leave the Society, what would happen > to > his family associations? Would he be dead to the family, as in some > religions? If the family made a will, would he be excluded from that will? > Sue > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Greetings from the UK My wife's great-great-great grandfather's family were Quakers. Bit of history! William Dillwyn, whose grandfather, also William, fled to America and settled in Pennsylvania in the 1670s because he was a Quaker, returned from America at the end of the 18th century. He settled on the outskirts of London and married a Quaker girl. Of his children all remained Quaker except for two: one son George married a governess so is excluded from some family trees, the other Lewis married outside the Quakers and attended the established church, but would visit his Quaker sisters and attend their meetings. No friction between William D and his son Lewis at all. Lewis had several children, not Quakers, the third son became a member of Parliament in the UK. We have a cartoon of him titled The Wet Quaker, which I am told refers to those who have lapsed. Incidentally the Parrish Art Gallery on Long Island was founded by a descendant of the first William Dillwyn so they did leave something behind and there are descendants in the USA. Hope this might be of some interest. Richard Morris Ty'r Gwynt Port Eynon Swansea SA3 1NL UK

If a son of a Quaker family chose to leave the Society, what would happen to his family associations? Would he be dead to the family, as in some religions? If the family made a will, would he be excluded from that will? Sue

Hi, I have an ancestor Jacob James (Jan 1 1823-Nov 16 1891) in Berks County PA. I think his parents were Samuel (1794-May 21 1835)& Lydia[unknown] (died 1872) James. But have not been able to confirm it. I have never researched Quakers and do not know where to start. They are not listed in Hinshaw Quaker research. Samuel is listed in a Society of Friends Book at the Berks Genealogical Society in Robson and Reading Meetings he is the son of Joseph and Lydia [Thomas] James. In the 1830 census Samuel has two sons in Jacob's age column. I will be visiting Reading area in March and could visit somewhere they might have records stored. Michelle {mostly PA Dutch}

The Nantucket Hist Soc. won't talk to me about the subject anymore. They have the Barney Collections and they insist it is absolutely correct. I have read those and the William Folger collections- both just say "died at sea" and I don't know how that was determined. That is what is bugging me. Who are some of your Swains. Mine moved from Mass to NYC and one son to Ohio. Shubael two known sons and daughter and has two unknown daughters. The knowns are Shubael Edgar ( my gg) Valentine, (moved to Ohio and his sons moved out west) Sarah Anne, who lived in Brooklyn and married Isaac Leggett. SE, after marriage lived in Jersey City and was a prominent NYC lawyer. His son Edgar is my g grandfather and his daughter married William VanVorst, but died after childbirth. I am sure they had relatives in other states. My grandmother, Eva Swain ( daughter of Edgar) was the first American girl to be the premiere danseuse at the Met and was the youngest in the world. There are articles in her scrapbook from other states, so I am suspicious that there were relatives around. I am co-authoring a book about her life and the ancestors will be the background for the book. That is why I want to crack this brick wall, although it is not crucial. Isaac Leggett was a Quaker but must have changed as he and Sarah were married in a Methodist Church. His twin brother remained Quaker, though- Abraham Leggett. Sue

I have read a bit of the book now and apparently it is very incomplete in its records. That gives me a bit of hope. I also just found out that although their will is written in 1813, Ebenezer died in 1825. Perhaps with so many deaths of children, they did this early. I saw him on some census records and on the 1800 he is living next to the grandchildren's family. It is a very interesting book to read and I wish I had time, right now, to completely read it. And you are right, if he gave to grandchildren, in NYC are some more, if mine is the same Shubael as his. Would Shubael Swain's death at sea be recorded in Quaker records? I would like to see more specific information about how that was determined. Sue

The spring of 1913 saw some of the worst flooding ever recorded in the Ohio Valley. Your grandmother's account makes sense. This proves that at times even the most careful record keepers get something wrong. Effie Keys, who was the recorder of births and deaths for Knightstown Monthly Meeting in 1913, appears to have been painstaking in her work, judging from the detailed notes about individuals she often made. I got a chuckle when I found that my own monthly meeting book had recorded my birth incorrectly and made me a year younger than I am. Tom Hamm I went in to Raysville/Knightstown records to check on errors of original > entries, and sure enough it still shows Jacob Williams died 1913 in > Philadelphia MM, and buried there, he is not buried there, he is buried > next > to his father Joseph William, his wife Sarah Ann Charles, daughter > MaryEtta > Williams, as listed in South Lawn Cemetery in Dublin, Wayne Co, IN in > Beverly Younts, Wayne Co, Cemeteries. So if that error is still listed use > these records with caution. > I'm Don Cordell, great grandson of Jacob. Jacobs daughter Nellie Catherine > Williams married Calvin Leroy Huddleston, and both of them are buried > about > 30' from Joseph Williams and Jacob Williams. Now why the error? My grand > mother told me her dad couldn't be buried for 6 months, because the ground > was too wet. So I guess they gave up and buried him in Dublin, next to the > family. March of 1913 must have had a lot of rain. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of [email protected] > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 7:58 AM > To: Jean Leeper > Cc: QUAKER ROOTS > Subject: Re: [Q-R] Abstracts of the Records of The Society of Friends in > Indiana > > > >

Sue: I found the following entry in the Genealogy of the Macy Family from 1635-1868 >>>Susanna Macy (318) , married Shubael Swain, son of Reuben Swain and Hannah Macy (157), born at Nantucket, ; married at Nantucket, , 1785; died at Nantucket,<<< Sarah

I went in to Raysville/Knightstown records to check on errors of original entries, and sure enough it still shows Jacob Williams died 1913 in Philadelphia MM, and buried there, he is not buried there, he is buried next to his father Joseph William, his wife Sarah Ann Charles, daughter MaryEtta Williams, as listed in South Lawn Cemetery in Dublin, Wayne Co, IN in Beverly Younts, Wayne Co, Cemeteries. So if that error is still listed use these records with caution. I'm Don Cordell, great grandson of Jacob. Jacobs daughter Nellie Catherine Williams married Calvin Leroy Huddleston, and both of them are buried about 30' from Joseph Williams and Jacob Williams. Now why the error? My grand mother told me her dad couldn't be buried for 6 months, because the ground was too wet. So I guess they gave up and buried him in Dublin, next to the family. March of 1913 must have had a lot of rain. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 7:58 AM To: Jean Leeper Cc: QUAKER ROOTS Subject: Re: [Q-R] Abstracts of the Records of The Society of Friends in Indiana

On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:32:33 -0700 "Sue Maxwell" <[email protected]> wrote: > They were the parents of Ebenezer who married Lydia Ellis. >Unfortunately I > have misplaced the photocopies I made of the book, Swains of >Nantucket, > Tales and Trails, but go the basic information in a different >manner. I will > have to go up to Slake to rephotocopy. > > Their son Ebenezer and Lydia Ellis had the following children- >Ebenezer ( > Jan 11 1772), Lydia (April 26 1774- 1812), Moses ( April 18 1776), >Shubael( >Feb 1778- Jan 10, 1808), Phebe(June 5, 1782-died 9 Oct 1849) and >Valentine( > > 5 Oct 1782-Jan 10-1808). It is Shubael and Valentine who are >reported as > having "died at sea" in 1808. Their Shubael married Sally of New >York. My > Shubael married Sarah Turner but died in 1849. I have looked at all >of the > Shubael Swains that I can find and this is the only family he fits, >as his > year of birth is around 1777, and theirs was born 1778. Mine died >Sept 20 > > 1849 at age 72. So many things fit except this died at sea problem. > > Sue Sue, I went to books.google.com and searched for <"ebenezer swain" nantucket> and found a citation on page 390 of /Nantucket Lands and Landowners/ by Henry Barnard Worth. It gives an extract of Ebenezer Swain's 1813 will. Names wife Lydia, children Ebenezer and Phebe, and grandchildren Stephen and Mary West. So it would appear that in 1813, the father of this family did not believe his son Shubael was alive, or that he had any surviving children to take their father's share of the estate. -- Dan Treadway P. O. Box 72 Gilbert IA 50105 [email protected] http://showcase.netins.net/web/treadway/

Sue, I went to books.google.com and searched for <"ebenezer swain" nantucket> and found a citation on page 390 of /Nantucket Lands and Landowners/ by Henry Barnard Worth. It gives an extract of Ebenezer Swain's 1813 will. Names wife Lydia, children Ebenezer and Phebe, and grandchildren Stephen and Mary West. So it would appear that in 1813, the father of this family did not believe his son Shubael was alive, or that he had any surviving children to take their father's share of the estate. -- Dan Treadway Dan- While that sounds convincing and a bit discouraging, it could also mean that the other's were married, who hadn't died- what do you think? If your thoughts are right then I am back at the very beginning with this man and will have to rely on the suggestions at the workshop,, but if he didn't die at sea, or was rescued and that was not recorded, then he might be one in the same. Mine married about 1779, so that would mean he was already making money and supporting a family. Perhaps the others were not married. Yet, in 1806, and Ebenezer Swain and small family move into my Shubael's home and Shubael moves his family to a different place. So you could be right. This is a really hard brick wall. Thank you so much for looking that up- I will get a copy of that. Sue

They were the parents of Ebenezer who married Lydia Ellis. Unfortunately I have misplaced the photocopies I made of the book, Swains of Nantucket, Tales and Trails, but go the basic information in a different manner. I will have to go up to Slake to rephotocopy. Their son Ebenezer and Lydia Ellis had the following children- Ebenezer ( Jan 11 1772), Lydia (April 26 1774- 1812), Moses ( April 18 1776), Shubael( Feb 1778- Jan 10, 1808), Phebe(June 5, 1782-died 9 Oct 1849) and Valentine( 5 Oct 1782-Jan 10-1808). It is Shubael and Valentine who are reported as having "died at sea" in 1808. Their Shubael married Sally of New York. My Shubael married Sarah Turner but died in 1849. I have looked at all of the Shubael Swains that I can find and this is the only family he fits, as his year of birth is around 1777, and theirs was born 1778. Mine died Sept 20 1849 at age 72. So many things fit except this died at sea problem. Sue

Here's a posting that I did last August: From: [email protected] Subject: [Q-R] Volume 3 of Indiana Quaker Records Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 08:49:08 -0400 (EDT) Dear folks, Some of you may be interested to know, at long last, the Indiana Historical Society has posted on its web site a revised edition of volume 3 the Heiss abstracts of Indiana Quaker records. This new volume 3 consists of monthly meetings in Henry, Madison, Hancock, and Rush counties. Note that this does not correspond to volume 3 of the old series, which was a different set of counties. These will not be, alas, published in book form. You will find this at: http://www.indianahistory.org/ihs_press/online_connections/QuakerRecords/index.html If the url is too long to paste in your browser, do some searching at the Indiana Historical Society web site. You will find them. Tom Hamm It appears that all future publications will be electroniuc rather than in book form. TH I know that volume one came out in 1996 and volume two came out in > 1999. What are the future plans for additional volumes? > > Sincerely, > > Jean Leeper > > [email protected] or [email protected] > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~jeanlee > > LQM: http://www.rootsweb.com/~ialqm/index.htm > > Cedar Creek Book Update Page: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~jeanlee/ccfbook.htm > > Cedar Creek Cemetery picts: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~jeanlee/ccrestore.htm > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

This is a little complicated, since the boundaries of Indianapolis have changed significantly since the nineteenth century. Since 1969 Indianapolis has embraced all of Marion County, Indiana, except for a few towns that were already separately incorporated. There has never been a Quaker cemeery within the old Indianapolis city limits. There are Quaker cemeteries in Decatur Township, in the southwest corner of the county. They are affiliated with very old Quaker meetings that date back to the 1820s: Fairfield, Bridgeport, Center, Lick Branch, and Easton. These folks don't fit a typical Quaker profile. Friends have always been scarce in Scotland in Kentucky. I have ancestors that I know were Quakers in Maryland, but at the > moment I want to ask a question about my ancestors Hugh Wilson b. 1893 > in Scotland and Amy Harrison b. 1807 in Shelby County Kentucky (dau. of > Reuben Thomas Harrison and Rhoda Paris). > > The information that I have suggests that they (Hugh and Amy) were > long time Quakers, and are buried at a Quaker cemetery in Indianapolis > Indiana. > > Is anyone aware of on line records that may help in searching for them? > > Thank you, > Diane > in Iowa > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I believe my Swain family had Quaker origins. I have looked, recently, in the Quaker Encyclopedia ( is that what it is called?). If I do not see someone's name there, does that mean he was never a Friend, left the Friends, or what? I believe his parents were- I think his parents were Ebenezer Swain and Lydia Ellis of Nantucket ( but this is yet to be proven). I am interested to know if their children were. One, hopefully, is my ggg grandfather, Shubael Swain, who moved from Nantucket to NYC, his brother, Valentine Swain, who moved to Cleveland, Ohio from NYC, and a sister, Sarah Ann Swain who married a former Quaker, Isaac Leggett ( brother of Abraham Leggett- who is in that book), in a Methodist Church in NYC. Also, according to some old records Ebenezers's son Shubael died at sea in 1808 while living in NYC? Would there be records of this in Quaker records? I am trying to prove that he did not die at sea, as this is the only family that his birth year, of 1777 fits. Can anyone help me with this information? Thank you- Sue .

Jean, From what I understand, all future volumes will be online. Don't know for sure but I believe that is what I read somewhere. Mike Pearson >Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 13:31:20 -0600 >From: Jean Leeper <[email protected]> >Subject: [Q-R] Abstracts of the Records of The Society of Friends in > Indiana >To: QUAKER ROOTS <[email protected]> >Message-ID: <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > >I know that volume one came out in 1996 and volume two came out in >1999. What are the future plans for additional volumes? > >Sincerely, > >Jean Leeper >

I have ancestors that I know were Quakers in Maryland, but at the moment I want to ask a question about my ancestors Hugh Wilson b. 1893 in Scotland and Amy Harrison b. 1807 in Shelby County Kentucky (dau. of Reuben Thomas Harrison and Rhoda Paris). The information that I have suggests that they (Hugh and Amy) were long time Quakers, and are buried at a Quaker cemetery in Indianapolis Indiana. Is anyone aware of on line records that may help in searching for them? Thank you, Diane in Iowa

I found an LDS records indicating Ephraim's wife's name to be Rachel Hartley b. 6-12-1765, Buckingham Township, Bucks Co., PA. Can't validate at the moment but it does look promising. Regards, Gregory Morley Jones>Mendenhall>Stubbs>Taylor On Jan 3, 2009, at 7:31 PM, Gregory Morley wrote: Hi Linda. following up, another researcher, Lynda Frohman, indicated to me that she was a descendant of Thomas Sanders Smith and Mary Ross, parents of Ephraim Ross Smith whose daughter Rebecca married Lewis Taylor. I've asked her if she knows the maiden name of Ephraim's wife. Hope this helps. Regards, Gregory Morley Jones>Mendenhall>Stubbs>Taylor On Dec 23, 2008, at 6:03 PM, Linda Layman wrote: Hi, Yes - I am also a descendant of Letitia Smith and Reuben Folger Macy, through their daughter Lucinda, who married William Orr. I have a great deal of information on the Macy family and all the Nantucket bunch; none on William Orr. Ephraim Smith and Rebecca (Addington?) are also two roadblocks. If Ephraim is the son of Thomas and Mary Ross, I have that line and all the others in the Bucks County Quaker bunch. Linda Gregory Morley <[email protected]> wrote: We must be related. Regards, gm Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device From: Linda Layman Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:04:22 -0800 (PST) To: Gregory Morley<[email protected]> Subject: Re: Fwd: Taylor relation Hi, I've been e-mailing back and forth with Bob for a few years now. He can get to the areas in question to do research; I can't - big help! Linda Gregory Morley <[email protected]> wrote: Possible surname search. See Bob's note below. Regards, Gregory Morley 630.689.6933 Begin forwarded message: From: Bob Eagle Date: February 12, 2008 5:53:11 PM CST To: Gregory Morley Subject: RE: Taylor relation Hi Gregery, Nice to meet you. I descend from Ephraim Smith whose daughter Rebecca married Isaac Taylor. There are a few more marriages between the Taylors and the other families I relate to in the Jacksonburg, West Elkton area. Ephraim Smith's daughter Leatitia Smith married my gggggrandfather Reuben Folger Macy. I will attach a few PDF files with these names on a deed and what amounts to a bill of sale. You will see other families that share in the estate. I hope I don't bog down your E- Mail. I likely have more for you to read. Which branch are you from? I go to Ohio a few times a year to research and always come back (to Florida) with a wealth of knowledge. To: [email protected] From: [email protected] Subject: Taylor relation Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:45:20 -0600 Hi Robert, I read your posting regarding your relation to Isaac and Rebecca Taylor. They were my gggg-grandparents. What's your relation? Regards, Gregory Morley 630.689.6933 Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. Get it now! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to QUAKER-ROOTS- [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Linda. following up, another researcher, Lynda Frohman, indicated to me that she was a descendant of Thomas Sanders Smith and Mary Ross, parents of Ephraim Ross Smith whose daughter Rebecca married Lewis Taylor. I've asked her if she knows the maiden name of Ephraim's wife. Hope this helps. Regards, Gregory Morley Jones>Mendenhall>Stubbs>Taylor On Dec 23, 2008, at 6:03 PM, Linda Layman wrote: Hi, Yes - I am also a descendant of Letitia Smith and Reuben Folger Macy, through their daughter Lucinda, who married William Orr. I have a great deal of information on the Macy family and all the Nantucket bunch; none on William Orr. Ephraim Smith and Rebecca (Addington?) are also two roadblocks. If Ephraim is the son of Thomas and Mary Ross, I have that line and all the others in the Bucks County Quaker bunch. Linda Gregory Morley <[email protected]> wrote: We must be related. Regards, gm Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device From: Linda Layman Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:04:22 -0800 (PST) To: Gregory Morley<[email protected]> Subject: Re: Fwd: Taylor relation Hi, I've been e-mailing back and forth with Bob for a few years now. He can get to the areas in question to do research; I can't - big help! Linda Gregory Morley <[email protected]> wrote: Possible surname search. See Bob's note below. Regards, Gregory Morley 630.689.6933 Begin forwarded message: From: Bob Eagle Date: February 12, 2008 5:53:11 PM CST To: Gregory Morley Subject: RE: Taylor relation Hi Gregery, Nice to meet you. I descend from Ephraim Smith whose daughter Rebecca married Isaac Taylor. There are a few more marriages between the Taylors and the other families I relate to in the Jacksonburg, West Elkton area. Ephraim Smith's daughter Leatitia Smith married my gggggrandfather Reuben Folger Macy. I will attach a few PDF files with these names on a deed and what amounts to a bill of sale. You will see other families that share in the estate. I hope I don't bog down your E- Mail. I likely have more for you to read. Which branch are you from? I go to Ohio a few times a year to research and always come back (to Florida) with a wealth of knowledge. To: [email protected] From: greg.mor[email protected] Subject: Taylor relation Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:45:20 -0600 Hi Robert, I read your posting regarding your relation to Isaac and Rebecca Taylor. They were my gggg-grandparents. What's your relation? Regards, Gregory Morley 630.689.6933 Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. Get it now!