>From the little I know about the subject (most of which I do know is from having read it here), it seems to me that the terms "removed" or "separated" are far better descriptors (than "disowned") to use today in describing the act and spirit of gently persuasive disengagement of an individuel from his or her judgmental Friends. What IS apparently regrettable and lacking in the old records is any follow-up for anyone who, once removed, has later been reaccepted and welcomed back without incident. Based on my own limited studies of personnel records of troops serving in the Union Army during the Civil War, I've learned that clerks for many units often entered the term "deserted" in many cases for troops who were not present for given roll calls...whereas they were actually just "on furlough" or "out sick" or "on leave" or "in the hospital" at the time. It seems to me that in terms of definition of a given condition regarding a person, that 18th and 19th Century terms were often far less sensitive to or less accurate than terms that are used typically today. So much for "political correctness.".      

>researching my lineage has given me much more insight to what my >forefathers bore... Ditto. Which is why I respect those ancient Friends who resisted ultimatums from self-selected leaders who promised "their lives, their fortunes," etc. -- and then oppressed others to ensure that they didn't have to pay that price. Here's a good article on the topic: http://revolution.h-net.msu.edu/essays/wulf.html Mark

Barbara and Susan....thanks so much for your replies on this topic--as a fairly new member of my local DAR and a descendant of at least 16 Patriots; I took great  issue with the following comment ..."Perhaps, but the "bar" required to be a DAR "patriot ancestor" is low."....   researching my lineage has given me much more insight to what my forefathers bore for our country-and at least 4 of them were Quakers! Margo

From on-line Merriam-Webster Dictionary - word date of 1630 1: to refuse to acknowledge as one's own 2 a: to repudiate any connection or identification with b: to deny the validity or authority of This is from http://www.quaker.org/disown.html "Friends sought to be a people whose lives, as well as words, testified to the power of Christ to teach and lead his people. Those whose lives said something different were undermining this objective. They provided ammunition to the enemies of Friends who maintained that reliance on an inward Light would lead to anarchy and libertinism. If disorderly individuals could not be persuaded to mend their ways, then Friends would go on record as not owning that person to be a member of their community." This helped me to understand the Quaker's and disownment. It was meant to keep the society stay true to this objective. I would say it falls more with the second definition above, both a and b. Sincerely, Jean Leeper [email protected] or [email protected] http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~jeanlee LQM: http://www.rootsweb.com/~ialqm/index.htm Cedar Creek Book Update Page: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~jeanlee/ccfbook.htm Cedar Creek Cemetery picts: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~jeanlee/ccrestore.htm

Sorry Mark for sending you so many of this. Didn't realize it was being sent only to you and not the list. Susan Spies From: [email protected]: [email protected]: RE: [Q-R] DAR Lineage BooksDate: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 01:07:37 -0600 I have been reading this discussion with interest as I am the Registrar and Lineage Research Committee Chair for my NSDAR (National Society Daughters of American Revolution) chapter. As such, I have the job of preparing applications for prospective members and having all information correct and acceptable according to the standards of the National Society. Each generation (first generation is always the applicant) must be documented with primary documentations, (birth, death, marriage certificates, census data, wills and probate records, just to mention a few). Secondary information is acceptable only if primary is not available and supporting documentation is requested for anything that is secondary. That means, for every person in the direct line, including spouses married into the direct line, there must be corresponding documentation. And not all forms of printed information is acceptable. NSDAR is very precise in what they will or will not accept. After the Chapter Registrar has finished with the application and supporting documents, it is forwarded to National where it is poured over by a Genealogy Department which is very impressive, well educated and dedicated to getting the information 'right'. They will review all documents and forward it to the Board or they will send it back to the Chapter with a letter indicating what information is lacking. The Chapter Registrar then has the job of redoing that generation, including researching it herself or helping the prospective research it. If the Board reviews the application and accepts it for membership, the Registrar is advised of their decision. They meet every 2 months to conduct business, of which applications is only a portion. The following is a list of acceptable forms of service. Signers of the Declaration of IndependenceMilitary ServiceContinental ArmyContinental NavyThe MarinesState and local militiasState naviesPrivateersCivil ServicePatriotic Service, including: Committees of Correspondence, Provincial Congresses, State Governors, State LegislatorsMembers of the FIrst Continental Congress Committees of SafetyRevolutionary CommitteesSigners of the Oaths of AllegienceSigners of PetitionsDefenders of Forts and StationsDoctors, nurses, ministers who gave patriotic sermonsPrisoners of War or RefugeesPrisoners on the British Ship New Jersey and other prison shipsThose who rendered material aid, ie food, a place to sleep or camp or pass thru, a drink of water. It can be the smallest thing imaginable as long as there is documentation for it. I belong to numerous other lineage societies and have always been told that NSDAR is the most precise in regards to documenting evidence of any society. I have filed papers for prospectives of some of these organizations and none have ever been as demanding of proper documentation as NSDAR. Also, the National Society has excellent training classes for field genealogists who wish to attend. The first training is a thorough evaluation of the information needed and are generally held on a State or Regional level. The second, a more intense course, is held at NSDAR and lasts for 4 days during which trainees have the opportunity to use the NSDAR library, a fantastic resource open to everyone. Personally, I am proud to be a member of an organization dedicated to 'getting it right' rather than relying on poorly documented information. After all, genealogy without documentation is mythology. And the primary reason for most of this is to document the participation of the men and women who struggled to provide the freedom we enjoy today. If you have any questions, just ask. I'm always open to questions, etc. Sorry this is so long but I just wanted to clarify things. Hope I did and didn't make things more confusing. Susan > Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:50:58 -0500> From: [email protected]> To: [email protected]> Subject: Re: [Q-R] DAR Lineage Books> > > To qualify for dar they have to have service (listed in a active > > soldiers -> > and there are many of those) or "provided aid and comfort" to soldiers"> > which is how there are women patriots listed in dar. The "bar" is there > > has> > to be documented evidence. I had to get the enrollment papers from the> > library of congress on one of my ancestors and he was listed with a group > > of> > other quakers from bucks county penns and it showed active service.> > >From a DAR website ( http://www.athensohiodar.org/other-ancestors.html):> > "Even if your ancestor wasn't one of the signers of the Declaration of > Independence, he would be recognized as a Patriot if he signed an Oath of > Allegiance. In 1776 the Continental Congress requested each state to take an > oath of allegiance from each of its male citizens over 21 years of age in > order to determine the strength of the patriot movement and to identify the > loyalists. Those who took such an oath, or signed local declarations of > independence from England, were guilty of treason under English law and > subject to death by hanging."> > Mark > > > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. Check it out. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_explore_012009

I have the same problem with replies--neglecting to get them to the list. I am one of those Susan described as having taken the 4 day course in Washington and hence am a DAR Certified Genealogy Specialist. This course doesn't teach you to "do genealogy." It teaches what the DAR requires for acceptance into the Society. I am also a NYS Vice Chairman of Lineage Research. As such, it is my job to help Chapter Registrars and prospectives with their research and applications when requested. The requirements for admission are definitely stringent. The complaint was about who was considered a person who aided the cause of the American Revolution. It is difficult for me comprehend how someone who subjected him or herself to execution by the British could not be considered as somneone who aided in the Revolution. After all, the English had far superior troops, numbers, training, etc. The colonists were not really supposed to win the war. Barbara Barbara L. de Mare, Esq. Attorney, historian, genealogist, grandmother 155 Polifly Road Hackensack, New Jersey 07601 (201) 567-9440 office http://historygenealogyesq.blogspot.com/ ________________________________ From: Susan Spies <[email protected]> To: Quaker list Rootsweb <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 1:11:14 PM Subject: Re: [Q-R] DAR Lineage Books Sorry Mark for sending you so many of this. Didn't realize it was being sent only to you and not the list. Susan Spies From: [email protected]: [email protected]: RE: [Q-R] DAR Lineage BooksDate: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 01:07:37 -0600 I have been reading this discussion with interest as I am the Registrar and Lineage Research Committee Chair for my NSDAR (National Society Daughters of American Revolution) chapter. As such, I have the job of preparing applications for prospective members and having all information correct and acceptable according to the standards of the National Society. Each generation (first generation is always the applicant) must be documented with primary documentations, (birth, death, marriage certificates, census data, wills and probate records, just to mention a few). Secondary information is acceptable only if primary is not available and supporting documentation is requested for anything that is secondary. That means, for every person in the direct line, including spouses married into the direct line, there must be corresponding documentation. And not all forms of printed information is acceptable. NSDAR is very precise in what they will or will not accept. After the Chapter Registrar has finished with the application and supporting documents, it is forwarded to National where it is poured over by a Genealogy Department which is very impressive, well educated and dedicated to getting the information 'right'. They will review all documents and forward it to the Board or they will send it back to the Chapter with a letter indicating what information is lacking. The Chapter Registrar then has the job of redoing that generation, including researching it herself or helping the prospective research it. If the Board reviews the application and accepts it for membership, the Registrar is advised of their decision. They meet every 2 months to conduct business, of which applications is only a portion. The following is a list of acceptable forms of service. Signers of the Declaration of IndependenceMilitary ServiceContinental ArmyContinental NavyThe MarinesState and local militiasState naviesPrivateersCivil ServicePatriotic Service, including: Committees of Correspondence, Provincial Congresses, State Governors, State LegislatorsMembers of the FIrst Continental Congress Committees of SafetyRevolutionary CommitteesSigners of the Oaths of AllegienceSigners of PetitionsDefenders of Forts and StationsDoctors, nurses, ministers who gave patriotic sermonsPrisoners of War or RefugeesPrisoners on the British Ship New Jersey and other prison shipsThose who rendered material aid, ie food, a place to sleep or camp or pass thru, a drink of water. It can be the smallest thing imaginable as long as there is documentation for it. I belong to numerous other lineage societies and have always been told that NSDAR is the most precise in regards to documenting evidence of any society. I have filed papers for prospectives of some of these organizations and none have ever been as demanding of proper documentation as NSDAR. Also, the National Society has excellent training classes for field genealogists who wish to attend. The first training is a thorough evaluation of the information needed and are generally held on a State or Regional level. The second, a more intense course, is held at NSDAR and lasts for 4 days during which trainees have the opportunity to use the NSDAR library, a fantastic resource open to everyone. Personally, I am proud to be a member of an organization dedicated to 'getting it right' rather than relying on poorly documented information. After all, genealogy without documentation is mythology. And the primary reason for most of this is to document the participation of the men and women who struggled to provide the freedom we enjoy today. If you have any questions, just ask. I'm always open to questions, etc. Sorry this is so long but I just wanted to clarify things. Hope I did and didn't make things more confusing. Susan > Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:50:58 -0500> From: [email protected]> To: [email protected]> Subject: Re: [Q-R] DAR Lineage Books> > > To qualify for dar they have to have service (listed in a active > > soldiers -> > and there are many of those) or "provided aid and comfort" to soldiers"> > which is how there are women patriots listed in dar. The "bar" is there > > has> > to be documented evidence. I had to get the enrollment papers from the> > library of congress on one of my ancestors and he was listed with a group > > of> > other quakers from bucks county penns and it showed active service.> > >From a DAR website ( http://www.athensohiodar.org/other-ancestors.html):> > "Even if your ancestor wasn't one of the signers of the Declaration of > Independence, he would be recognized as a Patriot if he signed an Oath of > Allegiance. In 1776 the Continental Congress requested each state to take an > oath of allegiance from each of its male citizens over 21 years of age in > order to determine the strength of the patriot movement and to identify the > loyalists. Those who took such an oath, or signed local declarations of > independence from England, were guilty of treason under English law and > subject to death by hanging."> > Mark > > > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. Check it out. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_explore_012009 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Actually, Friends did use the word "disown" consistently until the late nineteenth century for expulsion from membership. "Removed" was usually used for transfers of membership when Friends moved physically from one place to another. Tom Hamm "Disown" is really > not the proper word when referring to Quakers. They were "removed" from > the meeting. Re-admission was easily gotten by simple repentance. > > > Barbara L. de Mare, Esq. > Attorney, historian, genealogist, grandmother > 155 Polifly Road > Hackensack, New Jersey 07601 > > (201) 567-9440 office > http://historygenealogyesq.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Janet <[email protected]> > To: Sarah McCray <[email protected]> > Cc: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 7:01:41 AM > Subject: Re: [Q-R] DAR Lineage Books > > The men who were in Revolutionary War disown. I some in family who were. > Janet > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Sarah McCray > Date: 1/15/2009 12:16:46 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Q-R] DAR Lineage Books > > I realize that the Quakers were neutral when it came to war but have also > found some individuals who broke from neutrality and served in the > Revolutionary War. > > I have found at least 5 DAR lineage books at Google books online and they > are downloadable. I have found several ancestors so far. > > Sarah > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Another note: I have noticed that in some printed works of the early 19th century, Quaker authors would use the word *excommunicate* instead of saying *disown*. I don't know why this is (maybe it gave the appearance of being educated?), because I have never seen *excommunicate* in the minutes. - Seth ________________________________ From: Barbara de Mare <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 10:16:54 AM Subject: [Q-R] DAR Lineage Books It depended upon the meeting to which they belonged. "Disown" is really not the proper word when refrring to Quakers. They were "removed" from the meeting. Re-admission was easily gotten by simple repentance. Barbara L. de Mare, Esq. Attorney, historian, genealogist, grandmother 155 Polifly Road Hackensack, New Jersey 07601 (201) 567-9440 office http://historygenealogyesq.blogspot.com/

Tom, the most helpful early information I have found is in Joseph Besse's _A Collection of the Sufferings of the People Called Quakers_ (1650-1689), published in 1753. I had several gotten several of the printed paperbacks for different areas of England from Sessions of York: http://www.sessionsofyork.co.uk/books/hist_qkr.html Later I found that it is online at Earlham School of Religion's "Digital Quaker Collection": http://esr.earlham.edu/dqc/ Then you go to the Bibliography: http://esr.earlham.edu/dqc/biblio.html Then select the volume that covers the English county you want. A good source for early American Quakers is _A Collection of Memorials Concerning Divers Deceased Ministers and Others of the People Called Quakers: in Pennsylvania, New-Jersey, and Parts Adjacent, from Nearly the First Settlement Thereof to the Year 1787, with Some of the Last Expressions and Exhortations of Many of Them_, online at: http://www.archive.org/details/collectionofmemo00soci It is wonderful that these previously hard-to-find and very expensive early works are now available free online. I hope you find this information helpful. Kathryn Schultz [email protected] >Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:39:37 -0500 (EST) >From: [email protected] >Subject: [Q-R] Quaker Records, 1650-75 >To: "Thomas E. Kirk" <[email protected]> >Cc: [email protected], [email protected] >Message-ID: > <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > >You are at the very beginning of Quaker record keeping. The monthly >meeting structure was put in place in the 1660s. Some earlier marriages, >births, and deaths can be found in their records, but records before 1670 >are spotty. > >Tom Hamm > > >Can anyone explain how the various Quaker records were kept? I am trying > > to gather information from long ago (1650-75) and the monthly >minutes do not > > exist for this time period and I wonder if certain records having to do >> with marriages, removals, testimonies of sorts were kept in other books? >> Thank you, > > tom

It depended upon the meeting to which they belonged. "Disown" is really not the proper word when refrring to Quakers. They were "removed" from the meeting. Re-admission was easily gotten by simple repentance. Barbara L. de Mare, Esq. Attorney, historian, genealogist, grandmother 155 Polifly Road Hackensack, New Jersey 07601 (201) 567-9440 office http://historygenealogyesq.blogspot.com/ ________________________________ From: Janet <[email protected]> To: Sarah McCray <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 7:01:41 AM Subject: Re: [Q-R] DAR Lineage Books The men who were in Revolutionary War disown. I some in family who were. Janet -------Original Message------- From: Sarah McCray Date: 1/15/2009 12:16:46 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Q-R] DAR Lineage Books I realize that the Quakers were neutral when it came to war but have also found some individuals who broke from neutrality and served in the Revolutionary War. I have found at least 5 DAR lineage books at Google books online and they are downloadable. I have found several ancestors so far. Sarah

Serving on a Committee of Correspondence also qualifies for DAR membership. Again, they were guilty of treason and subject to hanging if the rebels lost the Revolution or if caught by the British. Barbara L. de Mare, Esq. Attorney, historian, genealogist, grandmother 155 Polifly Road Hackensack, New Jersey 07601 (201) 567-9440 office http://historygenealogyesq.blogspot.com/ ________________________________ From: Mark E. Dixon <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 3:50:58 PM Subject: Re: [Q-R] DAR Lineage Books > To qualify for dar they have to have service (listed in a active > soldiers - > and there are many of those) or "provided aid and comfort" to soldiers" > which is how there are women patriots listed in dar. The "bar" is there > has > to be documented evidence. I had to get the enrollment papers from the > library of congress on one of my ancestors and he was listed with a group > of > other quakers from bucks county penns and it showed active service. >From a DAR website ( http://www.athensohiodar.org/other-ancestors.html): "Even if your ancestor wasn't one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence, he would be recognized as a Patriot if he signed an Oath of Allegiance. In 1776 the Continental Congress requested each state to take an oath of allegiance from each of its male citizens over 21 years of age in order to determine the strength of the patriot movement and to identify the loyalists. Those who took such an oath, or signed local declarations of independence from England, were guilty of treason under English law and subject to death by hanging." Mark ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My DAR qualifying Quaker ancestor served as a paymaster and quartermaster in the Revolution, thus rendering service but not fighting. There was a debate when a pension application was made over whether he was doing it for the military or the Legislature. After a Judge ruled it was for the military (the Judge was his half-uncle), the pension was declined by not deciding the question on the basis of the application having been made by grandchildren, who were lot eligible to receive pension benefits. Barbara Barbara L. de Mare, Esq. Attorney, historian, genealogist, grandmother 155 Polifly Road Hackensack, New Jersey 07601 (201) 567-9440 office http://historygenealogyesq.blogspot.com/ ________________________________ From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected]; [email protected] Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 4:00:00 PM Subject: Re: [Q-R] DAR Lineage Books Mark- It doesn't mean the "bar is low" to qualify for membership in DAR. It merely means you have to prove your ancestor either served in the military or in some other way rendered services to the Patriot cause and continued to do so (in other words didn't take the Tory side at a later date or be fined for not serving or something of that nature). So the ancestor has to have shown some support for the Patriot cause--maybe put up troops in their house or fed the troops and sold them cows for food -- something to support the cause. Patriotic Service is frequently how Quaker ancestors might qualify. For me, on my mother's line which were mostly Quakers, I didn't find a single qualifying ancestor. I had to turn to my father's Pennsylvania Dutch ancestors for DAR Patriot service. Joan

The men who were in Revolutionary War disown. I some in family who were. Janet -------Original Message------- From: Sarah McCray Date: 1/15/2009 12:16:46 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Q-R] DAR Lineage Books I realize that the Quakers were neutral when it came to war but have also found some individuals who broke from neutrality and served in the Revolutionary War. I have found at least 5 DAR lineage books at Google books online and they are downloadable. I have found several ancestors so far. Sarah ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message .

Thomas, you are no doubt aware of this book but for others, I found in my favorite section of Google (books online) a book "History of the Religious Society of Friends, From Its Rise to the Year 1828" by Samuel M. Janney Vol. 1 of Four Volumes. On Page 264 it reads "This meeting of seven members, held at Lurgan, was the first meeting of Friends established in Ireland. (pg 265) In the year 1655, John Tiffin came to Ireland on a religious mission, and sojourned awhile at the house of William Edmundson, where he sometimes spoke a few words in their meetings.... This book looks like it has some very interesting historical and inspirational reading. Sarah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas E. Kirk" <[email protected]> To: "'mlwinton'" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 2:22 AM Subject: Re: [Q-R] Preparative Meetings > Thanks for your response Marilyn. I am researching records of the Lurgan > Ireland Friends. I understand that MM minutes do not exist for period > 1650's > to 1675 so I am trying to determine if other Quaker books/records exist > for > that period. I do have Parish registers of births, marriages, burials for > the period. > Tom > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of mlwinton > Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 5:47 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Q-R] Preparative Meetings > > Hello everyone, > In reference to Thomas Kirk's enquiry, yes, on the lowest level there > are the Meetings for Worship, but Thomas mentions that he is doing some > research in early records (1675 was noted). He did not say whether this > research was into early records in the US or in the British Isles. I > know that in Lancashire in the 1600's, the lowest local level of meeting > was called the Preparative Meeting, which in turn belonged to the > relevant Monthly Meeting. > > Regards, > Marilyn Winton Totten > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1895 - Release Date: 1/15/2009 7:46 AM

In a message dated 1/15/09 11:47:06 AM, [email protected] writes: > There are many quakers already established in the dar ( I have 4) that > qualified me. They weren't as neutral as believed. The dar has a patriot > look up, all you have to do is email them or a chapter near you and they can > get you all the info. > www.dar.org > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sarah McCray > Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:50 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Q-R] DAR Lineage Books > > Yes to Quakers and DAR. Another one of my Quaker gggg--grandmothers, Ann Whitehall has a DAR Chapter named after her. Her house on the Deleware River is famous in the Revolutionary War and is now part of Red Bluff National Park. Howard W Cook ************** A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62)

Thanks for your response Marilyn. I am researching records of the Lurgan Ireland Friends. I understand that MM minutes do not exist for period 1650's to 1675 so I am trying to determine if other Quaker books/records exist for that period. I do have Parish registers of births, marriages, burials for the period. Tom -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of mlwinton Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 5:47 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Q-R] Preparative Meetings Hello everyone, In reference to Thomas Kirk's enquiry, yes, on the lowest level there are the Meetings for Worship, but Thomas mentions that he is doing some research in early records (1675 was noted). He did not say whether this research was into early records in the US or in the British Isles. I know that in Lancashire in the 1600's, the lowest local level of meeting was called the Preparative Meeting, which in turn belonged to the relevant Monthly Meeting. Regards, Marilyn Winton Totten ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello everyone, In reference to Thomas Kirk's enquiry, yes, on the lowest level there are the Meetings for Worship, but Thomas mentions that he is doing some research in early records (1675 was noted). He did not say whether this research was into early records in the US or in the British Isles. I know that in Lancashire in the 1600's, the lowest local level of meeting was called the Preparative Meeting, which in turn belonged to the relevant Monthly Meeting. Regards, Marilyn Winton Totten

Also among old folders is one on John S. Kimber. Known as 'Chaplain' of Newport Bay Fishes for the Unchurched. He calls himself a "witness on the waters" and his congregation is the fleet of boats that plies Newport Harbor every Sunday. The above was on what looks like used to be a little newsletter or paper which was published. There are only 3 sheets. There are pictures of John S. Kimber in a boat and other "assistants". These pictures were published in May, 1979. Some of the others in May 1982. If anyone knows anything about John S. Kimber and his descendants I would appreciate hearing from you. Again anyone interested in the newsletters, I will scan them and send you copies. Thank you, Sarah Just digging through old stuff

I found a newspaper clipping with a photo of the above mentioned school in some material my cousin who compiled our maternal grandmother's ancestry, the which, he gave me when he was finished with the Ackroyd/Ecroyd genealogy. Following is in the print below the picture. These former students of the old Friends' School at Pennsdale? The picture was taken sometime between 1908 and 1910 at a reunion of the Old Scholars' Association at the school, in Muncy Township. It is owned by Mrs. Bruce L. Frymire, of Trout Run. Among those in the group are Dorothy Deane, Mr. and Mrs. Clarence L. Peaslee, Hannah Webster, Daniel Webster, Mr. and Mrs. Charles Ecroyd , Mr. and Mrs. Richard Ecroyd, Henry Warner and family, Mr. and Mrs. William Haines, William Winner and family, Helen P. Hoskins, Carl Wentzler, Clarence McConnel, present assistant county superintendent of schools; John Warner, Mrs. Grant Bussler, and the Rogers and McConnell families. I have scanned the the picture and would be happy to send a copy to anyone who asks. The only requirement, is I want to know why you want the picture, do you know someone in it? I would like to know more of the picture and anyone's memories, etc. I know I can google it, but I want YOUR thoughts. Thank you, Sarah

Mark- It doesn't mean the "bar is low" to qualify for membership in DAR. It merely means you have to prove your ancestor either served in the military or in some other way rendered services to the Patriot cause and continued to do so (in other words didn't take the Tory side at a later date or be fined for not serving or something of that nature). So the ancestor has to have shown some support for the Patriot cause--maybe put up troops in their house or fed the troops and sold them cows for food -- something to support the cause. Patriotic Service is frequently how Quaker ancestors might qualify. For me, on my mother's line which were mostly Quakers, I didn't find a single qualifying ancestor. I had to turn to my father's Pennsylvania Dutch ancestors for DAR Patriot service. Joan In a message dated 1/15/2009 3:31:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > There are many quakers already established in the dar ( I have 4) that > qualified me. They weren't as neutral as believed. Perhaps, but the "bar" required to be a DAR "patriot ancestor" is low. One criteria for an ancestor to be considered a patriot is whether he took the oath of allegiance. But the oath was required, and refusal to take it was punishable by a variety of penalties -- including confiscation of one's entire estate. Some Quakers did lose their entire estates for this reason. We call their descendants "Canadians." If you find an ancestor on the DAR's rolls, consider asking, "Did he believe in the Revolution?" or "Did he just want those pesky Founding Dads to go away and leave him alone so he could farm in peace?" For many, it was a go-along-to-get-along decision. Mark