I can not help you locate Pauline Waite Harper, but I have information about Hope Clifton and Christopher Holder. -- S. Newton Christopher Holder (1631-1688, born and buried near Bristol), has been described as “high-born” and “highly educated” with “abundant means” and “kinsmen high in the church”. At 25, in 1656, he arrived in Boston with a group intent upon introducing Quakerism in America. The whole group was sent back to England immediately. He returned to America the next year with a Quaker party which succeeded in launching the American mission. He is credited with organizing the first Quaker meeting in America, in Christopher’s Hollow, near Sandwich on Cape Cod, and he preached from New England to Maryland. The Boston authorities jailed him several times for not obeying their anti-Quaker laws and in 1658 cut off one of his ears. He may have helped finance both the 1657 expedition and the 1661 chartered voyage which carried back the king’s order that Boston must stop hanging Quakers. He crossed the ocean a number of times, but during the 1660s and 1670s was a resident of Newport RI. He married: 1) Mary Scott (m. 1660 in Eng., d.1664/5 in RI), daughter of Quaker Catherine Marbury Scott of Providence RI and niece of the better-known Anne Marbury Hutchinson. Mary’s daughter Mary (1661-1737) marr. Peleg Slocum from Portsmouth in 1680, and raised a large family in Dartmouth, not far from Newport but in MA. According to the RI MM register of births, a daughter Elizabeth was born to Christopher and Mary in 11 mo. 1664/5, at or close to the time of Mary’s death. Elizabeth (d.c.1715) marr. John Alloway in Eng. and settled there. 2) Hope Clifton (m. Dec. 1665; d.1680/1 in RI) was part of a group of Quakers, including Mary Dyer, who were jailed in Boston for protesting the 1658 ear mutilations and banished upon their release. From the RI MM births register: these children were born to Christopher and Hope in Newport: Christopher (b.10 mo. 1666); Hope (b. 1 mo. 1668); Patience (b. 12 mo. 1668); Content (b. 3mo. 1674); Ann (b.12 mo. 1775). The deaths register reported Hope’s death at Newport in 11 mo. 1680 and listed the deaths of 4 of her children: John (d. 6 mo. 1672); Ann (d. 1 mo. 1676); Patience and Content (d. 6 mo. 1676). Hope was buried in the burial ground donated by her father, Thomas Clifton, who drowned in 5 mo. 1681 while “washing”, age 75. Mary d. as the widow of Thomas in 11 mo. 1686/7 at about 87. (The Clifton Burying Ground was at the corner of Thomas and Golden Hill Streets, according to an article in the Newport Historical Soc. Bull. 12/1913, no.10, pp.38-9). Christopher was in England when Hope died and the Meeting had to find homes for her two surviving children. Christopher’s widow in England is said to have remembered Hope’s descendants in her will. From wedding certificates (marriage register): Thomas and Hope signed the wedding certificate for the 1672 Mary Gould/Joseph Bryar wedding at Wm. Coddington’s house in Newport, an event attended by George Fox and mentioned in his Journal. Christopher and Hope signed the wedding certificates for the weddings of Matthew Borden of Portsmouth to Sarah Clayton of Newport in 1st mo. 1673/4, and of Ralph Cowland of Portsmouth to Joan Hide, “late of London”, in 4 mo. 1677. Thomas Clifton signed the certificate at the Walter Newberry/Ann Collins wedding on 13 April 1675. Thomas Clifton became a Quaker at Rehoboth MA before he moved to Newport, and like other RI Quakers, bought land at Monmouth NJ in 1667. (Edwin Salter, History of Monmouth and Ocean Counties, 1890). 3) Grace Lawrence/Laurence Beaton, an English Quaker who outlived Holder (m.1682 in Eng., her 2nd marriage, his 3rd). Some sources: Besse’s record of the Sufferings of early Quakers, see both English and American sections; Early records of Rhode Island Monthly Meeting at the Newport Historical Society; Charles F. Holder’s history: The Quakers in Great Britain and America (NY, Neuner, 1913, 423p.); Austin’s Genealogical Dictionary of R. Is. - - - - - In response to: Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 From: MMNA through gmail <[email protected]> Subject: [Q-R] FW: [Hope CLIFTON, Christopher HOLDER] To: "Quaker-Roots list" <[email protected]> Quaker-Roots list, I received the attached message forwarded from www.QuakerMeetings.com, but the website no longer provides the Contact's e-mail address as it forwards queries. (1) Do any of you know how I can reach Pauline Waite Harper? (2) Do you know anything to help her? Of course, if she told me the geographical location of the couple and date of marriage, I would suggest the location of possibly-helpful records but I do no people genealogy. Tom Hill Thomas C. Hill Cincinnati, OH and Charlottesville, VA [email protected] Website: WWW.QuakerMeetings.com -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, 20 January 2009 To: [email protected] Hi, My grandmother Mary Clifton, daughter of Thomas and Mary Butterworth Clifton, was a sister to Hope Clifton who married Christopher Holder. I understand from my readings that Christopher was a strong Quaker follower, and I believe more of my ancestors followed him. Can you recommend sources to find the earliest of Quaker Records in America? Thank You, Pauline Waite Harper.

No, I do not know Roger L Hatton, who on 1/14/2009 was: ...looking for information about George Hatton who married Margaret J. Foulke, 9 Feb 1815 at the Miami MM, Warren Co., OH, USA. George Hatton is my 3rd great grandfather. He married Hanna Hopkins, 25 Apr 1851, but I do not known if they were married at the Miami MM. Are there any records that show these marriages? Also, Ann H. Hatton married Moses Kelly, 1 May 1850 at the Miami MM, Warren Co., OH, USA, but I have not been able to find a record of their marriage. Can you help me? but if he is located, I have one note about MARGARET FOULKE HATTON. She was the first Clerk of the Women's Yearly Meeting of Indiana Yearly Meeting, serving 1821-1824, also 1826. She was reported to be a member of Whitewater Meeting, Richmond, IN. (from Gregory Hinshaw, Indiana Friends Heritage, 1821-1996, 164p., p.13) -- S. Newton [responding to] Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 From: MMNA through gmail <[email protected]> Subject: [Q-R] FW: Miami MM, Warren County, Ohio: HATTON, FOULKE To: "Quaker-Roots list" <[email protected]> Again, this request came to QuakerMeetings.com with no return-mail address. I certainly have information on Miami Monthly Meeting, and there is much in Hinshaw. Does anyone on this list know Roger L. Hatton? Tom Hill Thomas C. Hill Cincinnati, OH and Charlottesville, VA [email protected]

I found none of the records on line to search. My experience has been poor with "genealogists" reviewing records off line. I'd appreciate referrals to someone who would actually review the records for me, i.e., some portion of the following esp. for Cecil, Harford, Annapolis, Baltimore & Anne Arundel Counties. <http://www.quakermeetings.com/searchSwitch?anID=TST251L>BALTIMORE, HOMEWOOD MARYLAND BALTIMORE CITY BALTIMORE 21218, 3107 N. CHARLES ST. <http://www.quakermeetings.com/searchSwitch?anID=TST250L>BALTIMORE, EASTERN DISTRICT MARYLAND BALTIMORE CITY BALTIMORE 21202, ~1800 N. AISQUITH ST. <http://www.quakermeetings.com/searchSwitch?anID=TST510L>COLORA MARYLAND CECIL COLORA 21917, COLOROA RD. OFF LIBERTY GROVE RD., 0.25 MI. N OF S.R. 279 <http://www.quakermeetings.com/searchSwitch?anID=TST476L>CHESTER RIVER MARYLAND KENT CHESTERTOWN 21620, 124 PHILOSOPHERS TER. <http://www.quakermeetings.com/searchSwitch?anID=TST430L>CECIL MARYLAND KENT (FORMERLY CECIL COUNTY) LYNCH 21646, S.R. 298, 0.5 MI. S. <http://www.quakermeetings.com/searchSwitch?anID=TST252L>BALTIMORE, STONY RUN MARYLAND BALTIMORE CITY BALTIMORE 21210, 5116 N. CHARLES ST. <http://www.quakermeetings.com/searchSwitch?anID=TST1840L>THIRD HAVEN MARYLAND TALBOT EASTON 21601, 405 S. WASHINGTON ST. <http://www.quakermeetings.com/searchSwitch?anID=TST5L>ANNAPOLIS MARYLAND ANNE ARUNDEL ANNAPOLIS 21403, 351 DUBOIS RD. <http://www.quakermeetings.com/searchSwitch?anID=TST852L>GUNPOWDER MARYLAND BALTIMORE SPARKS 21152, 14934 PRICEVILLE RD. <http://www.quakermeetings.com/searchSwitch?anID=TST1057L>LITTLE FALLS MARYLAND HARFORD FALLSTON 21047, 719 OLD FALLSTON RD., AT RECKFORD RD. <http://www.quakermeetings.com/searchSwitch?anID=TST579L>DEER CREEK (FUM) MARYLAND HARFORD DARLINGTON 21034, MEETINGHOUSE RD. <http://www.quakermeetings.com/searchSwitch?anID=TST575L>DEER CREEK MARYLAND HARFORD DARLINGTON 21034, 1212 MAIN ST., S.R. 161 <http://www.quakermeetings.com/searchSwitch?anID=TST1193L>MOTHERKILN (ORTHODOX) MARYLAND TALBOT EASTON 21601 <http://www.quakermeetings.com/searchSwitch?anID=TST580L>DEER CREEK (PRIMITIVE) MARYLAND HARFORD DARLINGTON 21034 <http://www.quakermeetings.com/searchSwitch?anID=TST1219L>SOMERSET MARYLAND SOMERSET ANNAMESSEX At 12:02 AM 1/21/2009, you wrote: >Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Monthly Meetings in Northern Maryland and Nearby Areas of > Pennsylvania (Tom Hill for MMNA) >. . . > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 10:32:06 -0500 >From: Tom Hill for MMNA <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [Q-R] Monthly Meetings in Northern Maryland and Nearby > Areas of Pennsylvania >To: <[email protected]>, "'Quaker-Roots'" > <[email protected]> >Message-ID: > ><!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAIPcQoChti5Ju6hqFVdvNdLCgAAAEAAAAO/[email protected]> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >_Maryland_ I went to the QuakerMeetings.com search page >http://www.quakermeetings.com/search_form and searched for all meetings in >Maryland. http://www.quakermeetings.com/search_display?StateOrProvince=Mary > >From my historical, non-genealogical perspective, I think Deer Creek and >Gunpowder Monthly Meetings best fit the bill, with the Nottingham and Little >Britain Monthly Meetings just into Pennsylvania likely parents of the early >meetings. Try checking their MMNA entries to see what "Records Known >Extant" are most helpful. Now that the Friends Historical Library at >Swarthmore College has posted its Baltimore (FGC) YM record holdings on the >Web, you can see all the Hicksite/FGC meetings' records in that area. > >http://www.quakermeetings.com/meeting_view?anID=TST575L Deer Creek >http://www.quakermeetings.com/meeting_view?anID=TST852L Gunpowder >http://www.quakermeetings.com/meeting_view?anID=TST1054L Little Britain >http://www.quakermeetings.com/meeting_view?anID=TST1348L Nottingham > >Of course, if you need to search the Orthodox records, they are stored at >the Quaker Collection in the Haverford College Library. Haverford is still >working on posting the Baltimore (Orthodox/FUM) records on line, but the >MMNA entries are generally complete for your time period. > > I will address the Ohio question in a separate post. > > Tom Hill > >. . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Burns, Attorney & Counselor at Law California Bar Assn. No. 91489 4877 Voltaire Street P.O.B. 7263 Ocean Beach (San Diego), CA U.S.A. 92167 (619) 223-0441 (voice) (847) 557-1220 (e-Fax) If you do not have eFax Messenger or an eFax Microviewer installed on your PC, download a free copy at http://www.efax.com/en/efax/twa/page/download E-Mail: <[email protected]> TM URL: <http://www.oblaw.com/>http://www.OBLaw.com TM http://www.RobertBurns.biz Over 28 years practicing law. Family Law, Personal Injury Law, Probate Law, and More Major credit cards accepted. The information in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient please delete. As Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality. George Washington. Without Freedom of Thought, there can be no such Thing as Wisdom; and no such Thing as publick Liberty, without Freedom of Speech. Benjamin Franklin Discourage litigation. Persuade your neighbors to compromise whenever you can. Point out to them how the nominal winner is often a real loser--in fees, expenses, and waste of time ... Never stir up litigation. A worse man can scarcely be found than one who does this. Abraham Lincoln. The SDCBA Attorney Code of Conduct can be found at: http://www.sdcba.org/codeofconduct.html

To Kay in Tennessee, I hope you have accessed a copy of "The Doane Family", vols. 1 & 2, by now. I looked in my copy, and your John is on page 123 (#94), and pages 80-81 as the son of Joseph Doane (#39), all in vol. 1.. From there the line is through Daniel, Daniel, Deacon John Done. This Joseph is a brother of the Israel Doan from whom I descend. The children of John Doan & Elizabeth Pike, widow of Alexander Stewart & dau. of John & Abigail Pike of Frederick Co.,VA, are on p. 123. Descendants of their children carry over into vol. 2. These officers of The Doane Family Assoc. of America should be able to tell you how to purchase the books: Custodian of the Books: Linda M. Doane, [email protected] or Preservation of Genealogical Records: Kay Blair, [email protected] Best wishes, Marilyn Winton Totten

Again, this request came to QuakerMeetings.com with no return-mail address. I certainly have information on Miami Monthly Meeting, and there is much in Hinshaw. Does anyone on this list know Roger L. Hatton? Tom Hill Thomas C. Hill Cincinnati, OH and Charlottesville, VA [email protected] Website: WWW.QuakerMeetings.com -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, 14 January 2009 10:05 a.m. To: [email protected] Subject: Email from the QuakerMeetings website I am looking for information about George Hatton who married Margaret J. Foulke, 9 Feb 1815 at the Miami MM, Warren Co., OH, USA. George Hatton is my 3rd great grandfather. He married Hanna Hopkins, 25 Apr 1851, but I do not known if they were married at the Miami MM. Are there any records that show these marriages? Also, Ann H. Hatton married Moses Kelly, 1 May 1850 at the Miami MM, Warren Co., OH, USA, but I have not been able to find a record of their marriage. Can you help me? Regards, Roger L. Hatton

Quaker-Roots list, I received the attached message forwarded from www.QuakerMeetings.com, but the website no longer provides the Contact's e-mail address as it forwards queries. (1) Do any of you know how I can reach Pauline Waite Harper? (2) Do you know anything to help her? Of course, if she told me the geographical location of the couple and date of marriage, I would suggest the location of possibly-helpful records but I do no people genealogy. Tom Hill Thomas C. Hill Cincinnati, OH and Charlottesville, VA [email protected] Website: WWW.QuakerMeetings.com -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, 20 January 2009 3:14 p.m. To: [email protected] Subject: Email from the QuakerMeetings website Hi, My grandmother Mary Clifton, daughter of Thomas and Mary Butterworth Clifton, was a sister to Hope Clifton who married Christopher Holder. I understand from my readings that Christopher was a strong Quaker follower, and I believe more of my ancestors followed him. Can you recommend sources to find the earliest of Quaker Records in America? Thank You, Pauline Waite Harper.

According to James H. Norton's very useful Ph.D. dissertation at Case Western "Quakers West of the Alleghenies and in Ohio to 1861," "Sunsbury Meeting was located in Sunsbury Township, Monroe County, near Jerusalem. A Meeting for Worship was established in 1825 by Somerset Monthly Meeting. Sunsbury was divided by the Separation of 1828, with both branches carrying on meetings. It appears that the Hicksite meeting did not enjoy a long duration of existence. The Orthodox group sided with the Conservative Friends in 1854. Sunsbury Preparative Meeting was laid down in 1865 and the Meeting for Worship by 1867." Since Susnbury never became a monthly meeting, pertinent records to 1828 will be found in the Somerset Monthly Meeting. After the Hicksite Separation, the Orthodox members remained part of Somerset Monthly Meeting, while the Hicksites would have become a branch of the Hicksite Stillwater Monthly Meeting. As for Alum Creek Monthly Meeting, the Benedict family, who were Orthodox, were committed abolitionists, and probably had sympathies with Anti-Slavery Friends. I don't know of any separation there in the 1840s, however. Tom Hamm As I remember my Interstate 71 exits, Sunsbury is nearest to Alum Creek > Monthly Meeting in Morrow County, OH: > http://www.quakermeetings.com/meeting_view?anID=TST57L > I do not know of a specific Anti-Slavery separation in Alum Creek MM, but > the Congregational Friends may have attracted some members of the Hicksite > Alum Creek meeting farther north in Morrow County and over in Knox County. > http://www.quakermeetings.com/meeting_view?anID=TST58L > > As to the Congregational Friends, Tom Hamm's book, GOD'S GOVERNMENT > BEGUN: THE SOCIETY FOR UNIVERSAL INQUIRY AND REFORM, 1842-1846, is the > most > comprehensive source. You might focus on pp. 108ff (PRAIRIE HOME) or pp. > 122ff (HIGHLAND HOME). The nearest identifiable monthly meeting was > Goshen > (Congregational) MM in Logan County. > http://www.quakermeetings.com/meeting_view?anID=TST807L > In October when I was researching another question in the Alum Creek > (Orthodox/EFI) minutes, I saw several entries that suggested some > anti-slavery sympathies in the 1840s. These Ohio meetings were still part > of Indiana YM until 1856, so they were in part caught up in the > anti-slavery > separation of that time. > > Tom Hill > > Thomas C. Hill > Cincinnati, OH and > Charlottesville, VA > [email protected] > Website: WWW.QuakerMeetings.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Carl J. Denbow > Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 11:51 PM > To: Quaker-Roots > Subject: [Q-R] Monthly Meetings in Northern Maryland and Nearby Areas of > Pennsylvania > > * * * > > Also, there was a meeting in the Sunsbury area of Monroe County, Ohio, in > the 1830-1860 period. Does anyone know of records of this meeting? > Alice > Dana Adams, in her book "The Neglected Period of Anti-Slavery in America > 1808-1831," says that the anti-slavery society meeting at the Sunsbury > meeting house in Monroe County, Ohio, was extremely radical in both its > published addresses and its constitution. If these records exists (Adams > quotes from them), then I would think other records of the meeting itself > would also exist. > > Thanks for any help you can give me. > > Carl > > ==================================================================== > Carl J. Denbow > 17 Coventry Lane > Athens, Ohio 45701-3718 > > (740)592-2133 (h) > (740)593-2204 (o) > (740)591-8471 (c) > > [email protected] > www.denbow.org > www.78ohio.org > > PaternalLines: DENBOW, EMMONS, GIGAX/GYGAX, HALDEMAN, HANLEY, > ROSE, SHARP,SMITH, STEVENS, TENNER/TANNER, TIPTON, THOMPSON, WILLIAMS. > MaternalLines: BJORNSON in U.S. (No surnames before 1870 in Old Country, > traditional Icelandic naming system used.) > ==================================================================== > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

As I remember my Interstate 71 exits, Sunsbury is nearest to Alum Creek Monthly Meeting in Morrow County, OH: http://www.quakermeetings.com/meeting_view?anID=TST57L I do not know of a specific Anti-Slavery separation in Alum Creek MM, but the Congregational Friends may have attracted some members of the Hicksite Alum Creek meeting farther north in Morrow County and over in Knox County. http://www.quakermeetings.com/meeting_view?anID=TST58L As to the Congregational Friends, Tom Hamm's book, GOD'S GOVERNMENT BEGUN: THE SOCIETY FOR UNIVERSAL INQUIRY AND REFORM, 1842-1846, is the most comprehensive source. You might focus on pp. 108ff (PRAIRIE HOME) or pp. 122ff (HIGHLAND HOME). The nearest identifiable monthly meeting was Goshen (Congregational) MM in Logan County. http://www.quakermeetings.com/meeting_view?anID=TST807L In October when I was researching another question in the Alum Creek (Orthodox/EFI) minutes, I saw several entries that suggested some anti-slavery sympathies in the 1840s. These Ohio meetings were still part of Indiana YM until 1856, so they were in part caught up in the anti-slavery separation of that time. Tom Hill Thomas C. Hill Cincinnati, OH and Charlottesville, VA [email protected] Website: WWW.QuakerMeetings.com -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Carl J. Denbow Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 11:51 PM To: Quaker-Roots Subject: [Q-R] Monthly Meetings in Northern Maryland and Nearby Areas of Pennsylvania * * * Also, there was a meeting in the Sunsbury area of Monroe County, Ohio, in the 1830-1860 period. Does anyone know of records of this meeting? Alice Dana Adams, in her book "The Neglected Period of Anti-Slavery in America 1808-1831," says that the anti-slavery society meeting at the Sunsbury meeting house in Monroe County, Ohio, was extremely radical in both its published addresses and its constitution. If these records exists (Adams quotes from them), then I would think other records of the meeting itself would also exist. Thanks for any help you can give me. Carl ==================================================================== Carl J. Denbow 17 Coventry Lane Athens, Ohio 45701-3718 (740)592-2133 (h) (740)593-2204 (o) (740)591-8471 (c) [email protected] www.denbow.org www.78ohio.org PaternalLines: DENBOW, EMMONS, GIGAX/GYGAX, HALDEMAN, HANLEY, ROSE, SHARP,SMITH, STEVENS, TENNER/TANNER, TIPTON, THOMPSON, WILLIAMS. MaternalLines: BJORNSON in U.S. (No surnames before 1870 in Old Country, traditional Icelandic naming system used.) ====================================================================

_Maryland_ I went to the QuakerMeetings.com search page http://www.quakermeetings.com/search_form and searched for all meetings in Maryland. http://www.quakermeetings.com/search_display?StateOrProvince=Mary >From my historical, non-genealogical perspective, I think Deer Creek and Gunpowder Monthly Meetings best fit the bill, with the Nottingham and Little Britain Monthly Meetings just into Pennsylvania likely parents of the early meetings. Try checking their MMNA entries to see what "Records Known Extant" are most helpful. Now that the Friends Historical Library at Swarthmore College has posted its Baltimore (FGC) YM record holdings on the Web, you can see all the Hicksite/FGC meetings' records in that area. http://www.quakermeetings.com/meeting_view?anID=TST575L Deer Creek http://www.quakermeetings.com/meeting_view?anID=TST852L Gunpowder http://www.quakermeetings.com/meeting_view?anID=TST1054L Little Britain http://www.quakermeetings.com/meeting_view?anID=TST1348L Nottingham Of course, if you need to search the Orthodox records, they are stored at the Quaker Collection in the Haverford College Library. Haverford is still working on posting the Baltimore (Orthodox/FUM) records on line, but the MMNA entries are generally complete for your time period. I will address the Ohio question in a separate post. Tom Hill Thomas C. Hill 425 Walnut St., Suite 1800 Cincinnati, OH 45202 U.S.A. and Carlottesville, VA [email protected] WWW.QuakerMeetings.com -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] On Behalf Of Carl J. Denbow Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 11:51 PM To: Quaker-Roots Subject: [Q-R] Monthly Meetings in Northern Maryland and Nearby Areas of Pennsylvania Can anyone tell me what meetings were in the Northern Maryland area (and nearby Penn.) in the late 1700s to the 1830s? And, what records may be available in terms of member lists, attendance, etc.? Also, there was a meeting in the Sunsbury area of Monroe County, Ohio, in the 1830-1860 period. Does anyone know of records of this meeting? Alice Dana Adams, in her book "The Neglected Period of Anti-Slavery in America 1808-1831," says that the anti-slavery society meeting at the Sunsbury meeting house in Monroe County, Ohio, was extremely radical in both its published addresses and its constitution. If these records exists (Adams quotes from them), then I would think other records of the meeting itself would also exist. Thanks for any help you can give me. Carl ==================================================================== Carl J. Denbow 17 Coventry Lane Athens, Ohio 45701-3718 (740)592-2133 (h) (740)593-2204 (o) (740)591-8471 (c) [email protected] www.denbow.org www.78ohio.org ====================================================================

Can anyone tell me what meetings were in the Northern Maryland area (and nearby Penn.) in the late 1700s to the 1830s? And, what records may be available in terms of member lists, attendance, etc.? Also, there was a meeting in the Sunsbury area of Monroe County, Ohio, in the 1830-1860 period. Does anyone know of records of this meeting? Alice Dana Adams, in her book "The Neglected Period of Anti-Slavery in America 1808-1831," says that the anti-slavery society meeting at the Sunsbury meeting house in Monroe County, Ohio, was was extremely radical in both its published addresses and its constitution. If these records exists (Adams quotes from them), then I would think other records of the meeting itself would also exist. Thanks for any help you can give me. Carl ==================================================================== Carl J.Denbow 17 Coventry Lane Athens, Ohio 45701-3718 (740)592-2133 (h) (740)593-2204 (o) (740)591-8471 (c) [email protected] www.denbow.org www.78ohio.org PaternalLines: DENBOW, EMMONS, GIGAX/GYGAX, HALDEMAN, HANLEY, ROSE, SHARP,SMITH, STEVENS, TENNER/TANNER, TIPTON, THOMPSON, WILLIAMS. MaternalLines: BJORNSON in U.S. (No surnames before 1870 in Old Country, traditional Icelandic naming system used.) ====================================================================

To Kay in Tennessee Do you know about the book "The Doane Family" which is published by The Doane Family Association? It would probably help you quite a bit. I will have a look in the index of my copy, for your Doane in NC. Regards, Marilyn Winton Totten

I'm looking for any information on a Doan family in Clay Co, Kentucky.    All I know is a Joseph Doan/Doane b 1830 married Sylvia Davidson.      Thanks in advance for any information,   Donna      

Hi- What is the connection to the Quaker faith? You have kind of lost me here. On another note, what evidence do you have to support the Choctaw connection? Also, I tried finding this family in Cleveland County, NC on the 1850 census at Ancestry and I don't find them under the BEESON or BEASON spelling--where did you find them and under what spelling? Joan In a message dated 1/18/2009 4:53:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Need information on Mary Ann Beason born 1846 . She and her sister Sarah are on the 1850 census in Cleveland Co. NC. Mary Ann is part Choctaw Indian. I don't know where she got it. Her parents were Samuel and Elizabeth Beason. It could have come from Grubb or Mills. Or it may have come from Samuel or his father Joseph Beeson. If you know about any of these people please write to me. [email protected] Thank you

Need information on Mary Ann Beason born 1846 . She and her sister Sarah are on the 1850 census in Cleveland Co. NC. Mary Ann is part Choctaw Indian. I don't know where she got it. Her parents were Samuel and Elizabeth Beason. It could have come from Grubb or Mills. Or it may have come from Samuel or his father Joseph Beeson. If you know about any of these people please write to me. [email protected] Thank you

This was one of the most interesting experiences I have had, with the exception of much serendipity in my family research. There were dozens of clues that led me to this family. The most interesting thing was that in "Swains of Nantucket, Tales and Trails," Robert H. Swain only lists three of Ebenezer and Lydia Ellis Swain's children. It wasn't until I read the William C Folger collection that I realized there were six children and one was a Shubael and his birth date fit mine pretty well. Ebenezer's parents were Ebenezer Swain and Lydia Gyles. When Shubael moved to NYC he was surrounded by Nantucket names. I could write an article about all of the information that led me to the conclusion that this was the right family; but I was trying to prove he was the right one in the wrong way. I was trying to find information that said that he didn't die at sea, and had no luck. I live about and hour away from the SL Family History Library, and of course, I really had to stay at the hotel- it would have worn me out totally to drive up and back every day. What I liked about this conference was that was that you had a choice of 11 subject areas and you did that for the entire week. I signed up for problem solving class, which was set up differently than the other subjects. This was sponsored by the Utah Genealogical Association. We were divided into groups of similar problems and we had two professional genealogists ( all at the conference were well known and top notch) and each day we took turns discussing our problems and got their input as to what we should do. The first day they wanted me to look for Shubael's will, which I had not done, as I had given up on the project, because I knew it was not crucial for the book I am co-authoring for the public about my grandmother's ballet career- which will also change ballet history. He came into NYC in 1803 from Nantucket. When his wife died in 1844, he moved up to Ohio, to be with his other son and died there. So I searched both places and did not find one. We decided that what had most likely happened was that he gave his estate to his family before death, so there was no need for a will. The next day, because there were so many obviously related people living in his area of NYC, I was asked to look at land records. What a nightmare. They moved a lot, but from looking at the city directories I had a definite impression that they owned some of the properties. But after looking through thousands of names, and getting really burned out by microfilm research, I found nothing helpful, with three indirect exceptions- some possible relatives. but not the obvious ones that I wanted. The next day, because someone on another site had sent me an abstract of his father's will, they said "Find his father's will today." When I looked at what was available for Nantucket I was discouraged because there were no indexes and only one source, essentially. The first Liber books did not have indexes in them, and I wanted to see if anything was written when his wife died before him. I found nothing. When I got to his date of death, that book had an index in the front, and it told me which pages to look at, as there were seven that were separated. His family was apparently poor and his father was a shoemaker- quite interesting since after he moved to NYC he and his descendants became quite wealthy, I think this was to his advantage, as I know enough about the family to know that some of the men were out standing in character. Now he and his brother are listed as dying at sea in 1808. The brother is Valentine. In 1813, Ebenezer and Lydia made their will, including everyone of their children and grandchildren who were alive at that time. He was in the will and Valentine wasn't. So there was the proof. On the first day, because we had written up our problem and all corresponding information regarding it, our consultants said that they were sure that I had found the right family and now I needed to prove it. There was the proof. They knew that he was alive and that Valentine was dead. And bye the way, he named one of his son's Valentine- and you can see why. In the book I mentioned, it takes you back to the first Swain that came to America- Richard Swain, so I was able to trace his direct line back to Richard, and everyone else is related in some manner. Of course I was on cloud nine, and spent the rest of the time looking at Quaker info to see if they were Quakers and trying to find more wills. I stayed an extra day, Saturday, but was burned out by then. I can easily go up to SL and do more research now, but you know how it is- I want to get "cozy" with all of these new ancestors now and see what I can learn about them. I felt like, even though the cost was a real sacrifice for me, that what I gained was priceless. A whole new world opened up, and I have always had the feeling that, even though this background ancestral information for the book would not necessitate finding all of this out, I have always had the impression that I was going to learn something of real interest to make the book much more interesting. Because of one thing I need to research more, it may be that my co-author and I are distantly related, which would be really funny. So, I came back feeling wonderful, broke, and thinking that I should take advantage of reading all of the books that I have, because maybe I would have thought more broadly and come to the conclusion myself of how to solve it. But it was worthwhile as I heard their advice to everyone and learned more about solving a brickwall. So that is basically my story. The first day I asked if anyone had ever solved a problem in this class, as some were still working on the same one, but several had. But this time I am the only one who solved the entire problem I was researching. A miracle for sure. So when you look up Shubael Swain, son of Ebenzer and Lydia Ellis Swain, in the Nantucket Vital Record books, you will know that he did not die at sea, he lived to the age of 72, was a ship captain, retired and was elected Deputy Keeper of Bridewell Prison on Blackwell or Roosevelt Island in NYC, and went to Ohio to see his other son and is buried there with no buriel records. The Swain plot in Cleveland looks exactly like the Swain plot in The GreenWood Cemetery in NYC. His son, my gg grandfather, was a prominent lawyer in NYC, Shubael Edgar Swain, with Benjamin M Stilwell, and one fun thing I found out is that Benjamin sold some property to a William H. Maxwell , and I am a Maxwell by birth and marriage. His son , Edgar Swain, was a lawyer and entrepreneur and a millionaire, and he is the father of my grandmother. Of course everyone lost their money in the depression and stock market crash- so I always think that all you can take with you is your character and your family and certainly not your money, when you die. I got 325 emails when I was gone and want to especially read all of the discussions you all had about the Society of Friend's terminology. There was a book there that explained it, but I did not have a chance to read that one. I did do some reading, and found a few Swain quotes, but my general impression was that my Swains were not strong in the Society. There were an increasing number mentioned in a wonderfully specific book on microfilm, but now I have to see how they are related. Everyone in the book I mentioned will be related some how. I did find a handwritten, two volume book, about members, and his grandparents, Ebenzer and Lydia Gyles Swain were in it, but his parents were not in it. I do have a question- does anyone know what other churches existed in Nantucket? I did read about the influence of evangelical revivals on Quakerism, but I came out feeling like I didn't really understand much about your religion. I will read all of your week's discussion and then ask more questions. Thanks for you interest in this project- I really didn't expect to solve it, but it was so simple! Sue Maxwell

When you see "presented an offering" this means he/she signed a statement which said he/she was sorry for his/her action(s) and if the monthly meeting accepted his/her apology he/she was reunited with the society. Sincerely, Jean Leeper [email protected] or [email protected] http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~jeanlee LQM: http://www.rootsweb.com/~ialqm/index.htm Cedar Creek Book Update Page: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~jeanlee/ccfbook.htm Cedar Creek Cemetery picts: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~jeanlee/ccrestore.htm On Jan 17, 2009, at 1:53 PM, [email protected] wrote: > > The term is "acknowledgement." > > the apologies when an offender repented and returned - I can't > think of > the term used for that > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

I just got back from a week long workshop to solve this brickwall and did. I will explain more tomorrow, but Ebenezer and Lydia Ellis Swain wrote their will in 1813; Shubael and his brother Valentine were supposed to have died at sea in 1808 in NY. I read the entire will and Shubael is in it and Valentine isn't. I don't know the circumstances of Valentines death at sea but would like to learn more about the circumstance;, but I was totally elated as I now have his genealogy all the way back to the first Swain who came to NH and the son that came to Nantucket. So my Shubael is their son and I have proved all of the old records and the Nantucket Vital Record books to be wrong- including the Barney Collection and the William C Folger Collection and the Worth Collection.. So I now know his entire history and that of his ancestors. And I am going to write something about it so that people will have the correct information. I did some reading about The Society of Friends and must admit that I have a lot of questions about it that I would like to know more about. I now do not think that the Swains were very active in the Society, although his grandparents are listed in a book but not his parents. Hinshaws Encyclopedia does not include Mass, so that was disappointing, but I browsed a fantastic book on microfilm as well as some other books and got some things. Will tell more tomorrow or the next day- am bushed. Sue Maxwell

Someone else may have already said this and if so I apologize. Much has been said about disownments and removals. I'm transcribing some Rhode Island Friends Records for 17th and 18th centuries, and in those the difference is very clear. Removals were when someone left and asked for a certificate to a meeting somewhere else. A copy was recorded in the old meeting and also in the new when the person was accepted there, so the researcher gets two shots at the information. Denials covered "disownments" for all kinds of offenses. Men's Meeting and Women's Meeting Minutes recorded almost everything else, including when an offense was first noted and Friends were appointed to go and talk with an offending party. The matter reached a denial only when the offender was given notice that he was no longer under the care of Friends because of what he/she had done. Denials and the apologies when an offender repented and returned - I can't think of the term used for that - were recorded in a separate book, as were Removals. I'm sure that as time wore on the boundaries got blurred in some places, but that's what I see in the records I'm working with. Jane

The term is "acknowledgement." the apologies when an offender repented and returned - I can't think of the term used for that

>> From the little I know about the subject (most of which I do know >> is from having read it here), it seems to me that the terms >> "removed" or "separated" are far better descriptors (than >> "disowned") to use today in describing the act and spirit of gently >> persuasive disengagement of an individuel from his or her >> judgmental Friends. > Based on my own limited studies of personnel records of troops > serving in the Union Army during the Civil War, I've learned that > clerks for many units often entered the term "deserted" in many > cases for troops who were not present for given roll calls...whereas > they were actually just "on furlough" or "out sick" or "on leave" or > "in the hospital" at the time. > It seems to me that in terms of definition of a given condition > regarding a person, that 18th and 19th Century terms were often far > less sensitive to or less accurate than terms that are used > typically today. So much for "political correctness.". > Agree! > What IS apparently regrettable and lacking in the old records is any > follow-up for anyone who, once removed, has later been reaccepted > and welcomed back without incident. > It most cases if you can go back to the original records, they will tell in detail what the reason(s) was.were but we rely on the extraction with Hinshaw's EQG or Heiss' work. The extractors read a passage and wrote down in their shorthand what they thought it said. They may not have read all of the minute records relating to the issue or some of the passage(s) may have been dim. My grandmother still used the word disowned (mid 1900s) to remove a membership even though a letter had been written to the family and they had replied they wanted their names removed. The old Heiss extraction for Indiana has a relative of mine disowned a second time in Indiana over an issue of having a child out of wedlock. Last night I discovered that the new extractions being done and published by Indiana Historical Society show something different. The new extractions show it was discussed that she had been accepted at her request at Cedar Creek MM in Iowa and therefore was reinstated into membership. The family had moved to Iowa and then back to Indiana to their old meeting. She had not been disowned a second time. For ten or more years I had accepted she had been disowned a second time and thought the meeting was being very petty in bringing up that old issue and disowning her again. Jean Leeper