I read this in the Summer '98 issue of the Poulsbo RV 'er newspaper, and thought that it might be of interest to those of you interested in the Snohomish Cemetery mess: "In other California state parks news, at Coloma's Marshall Gold Discovery State Park, radar "mapping" of two historic cemeteries has begun. The hope is to identify up 400 lost gravesites. The earliest graves date from 1849, just a year after James Marshall discovered a gold nugget in the American River setting off the California Gold Rush." The operative phrase here is "radar mapping." Has that been done? Does anyone have any idea how much that would cost? And who could do it? Just something to think about Nell nelljune@aol.com

Carroll H Clark Thanks for the updates on the Snohomish Cemetery - especially this mornings. Question - has anyone invited a grave witcher to the Snohomish Cemetery? Have been told that they are used in the Dakotas in small country cemeteries where there are a lot of unmarked graves, that they are successful in locating these and even have been able to tell the sex of the person in the grave. Just an idea! Fred Pflugrath

What genealogy is all about ( well, much more, actually!): I received this from friend, John Sloniker who is always helping others, and very successfully so. On Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:27:54 -0700 clarkw7iml writes: >THANK YOU JOHN for passing this to me. It hit a bit a "pay dirt", >too. >Good to hear from you & I enjoyed the Who's joke you sent me. >On Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:09:04 -0700 (PDT) John Wm Sloniker ><johnwms@serv.net> writes: >>Carroll is the fellow that knows Snohomish. WELL, I THOT I KNEW SNOHOMISH, BUT SOMETIMES I WONDER - WE LOVE IT JUST THE SAME - SNOHOMISH HAS ALWAYS HAD A LOT OF "COLORFUL HISTORY" - A TOUGH, ROWDY TIME FROM THE LOGGING DAYS WHEN FIGHTS WERE A FRIENDLY GAME - TODAY, IT HAS BECOME A BIT MORE VICIOUS. NUFF SED! signed, Carroll. Norma calls me "CC." cuz I tend to initial some of my stuff. I LUV YA , Norma ! Out!. He'll get a copy of >this. >> >>---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:04:29 EDT >>From: Rusmr3@aol.com >>To: johnwms@serv.net >>Subject: Snohomish >> >>John, >WELL, I thought I knew Snohomish, but I keep finding things THAT I >DON'T KNOW about Snohomish, and one of them is: Why the City of >Snohomish has been so neglectful of the only cemetery in the town >limits, and a pioneer Caucasian & Indian (Nat. Amer.) cem. that should >be honored and cared for - not dishonored and desecrated as a >cemetery, but exploited as just an abandoned piece of choice, free >realestate, despite the fact that it started out as a cemetery in 1875 >C. Clark, Snohomish. > * * * . >>I have a friend that sends me bits and pieces of PSRoots because I >>have >>relatives that still live in Snohomish. The family name is White. My > >>Great >>Uncle was Homer White >HOMER WHITE was not only your great uncle, he was a GREAT PERSON by >all who knew him, and I was one of many who was lucky to have known >Homer. >He was a very good friend of my family. My folks, especially my Uncle >Herb Ness, the barber, and Mr. Baseball in Snohomish were very good >friends. They worked on many projects together. Homer had several >restaurants, - they were all called fondly >"The Greasey Spoon" no matter the location or the formal name - but we >all loved Homer and his family and he was always highly respected by >all. He was a go getter, always doing things for others, always active >in civic activities in Snohomish. > > and he use to own a restuarant in the town of >>Snohomish, >>I know that I have a second cousin there that use to own a Farm on >the >>old >>Snohomish-Monroe Hwy. >I'm not sure who this would be, but I will bet if you told me their >name that I would probably know them, also. My friend and I used to >peel cascara bark just outside of Snohomish on farmland on the South >side of the hwy in a sort of swampy-like clump of trees. We would dry >the cascara bark on the roofs of our houses, and buy candy or pop etc. >with the few cents we got for it at the local drug store in downtown >Snoh. >We sometimes tried to get some kid to "try" the dried cascara bark, or >rub it on lemon drops, for effect. > >Then, you are also related to Alpha White - a real cute girl we all >would recall - well she lives just exactly one mile from me and she >married a fellow by the name of Herb Hammond, a top notch fellow and I >see them frequently. >Then, Bob Bisnett, whom I have seen at several funerals we attended >together. >Bob and I went to Central School together in Snohomish and have known >each other since we were knee high to a proverbial grasshopper. He >is an ex- schoolteacher, like myself, and we are both retired. Bob >looks like a meg. dollars - trim, healthy and married a nice gal/lady >a registered nurse. >I just happen to have Bob's card that I keep right beside my computer >keyboard, so if you want his address, I can give you that. - he lives >in Seattle. > >>I think that he has since sold his farm and moved away. His name is >>Warran O. >>White. >I don't recall him as well at the moment. > > > I remember my Great Uncle a little we use to visit him when we >>lived in >>Silver Lake. >Silver Lake area has grown like the many other areas, and the traffic >over there is horrendous, to put it lightly. That Lake was always >cold even in the mid, hot summer - guess it is fed by many springs. > I never knew my Grandfather because he died before I was >>born. >>I know that he is buried in Port Angeles. Other then that, I don't >>really know >>anything about my Family >I know that feeling well, as I was an only child, as my Dad died when >I was 3, and he was circa 27 when he passed away from TB in the Vet's >hospital in Walla Walla, WA. >So, I had no bros or sistrs and was raised by my Uncle and Aunt. My >Uncle could not have been more father to me than my own father. He >was a barber, Fire Chief, Pres of the Sportsman Club as a Founder of >it. He was on the Snohomish Baseball Team, and he coached Earl >Averill of Snohomish who eventually played ball for Cleveland Indians, >and Detroit Tigers, and made the Hall of Fame, for his career in the >20s, 30s, mainly. >I would be most pleased to help you know your Family - I will contact >Alpha White Hammond, and Robert L. Bisnett, both raised by Homer. I >have not idea how much they have about your Line but if anyone would >know it should be them. >If you will give me your full name, address, phone number and some >things about yourself I will print it off and give a copy to one or >both of them, so they can contact you and try to help you learn some >genealogy about your White Family. >This is kind of the way I got started, and in a short while I couldn't >believe the amount of info I was able to find with just a bit of help >or incentive to get me innoculated - and it really "took" cause I have >been hooked! >I would like to know where you are located, as so many e-mailers don't >give their locs. and I really like to know as oftentime that can make >a diff. in how I reply. >My Clarks are not from Snohomish, but rather Kent, WA - there is a >whole cemetery full of them up on the East hill. > If you have any information could you please >>contact >>me. I really want to know my Family. Thank you in advance for any >>help. >> >> >Carroll (male) in Snohomish since 1924. > * * * >Thanks again John - I think I can help this one a bit. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

For anyone interested in knowing, I saw no article relating to the Subject topic in The Herald this Wed. a.m. Oct 14 regarding yesterday's hearing. A most interesting testimony was made by a lady Anthropologist/Archaeologist with extensive education and experience. Her education attained a PhD. in Anthropology with the main emphasis on Archaeology. Much of her education was done at the University of Washington, Seattle. She was a cum laude ( hope I spelled that correctly!-CC) graduate. Her experience is over a period of 25 years; young appearing, and obviously very precise in her expertise. She really laid out what archaeology is about and the precise pre-information needed to even begin a "dig" of any kind. First, a detailed and lengthy Report of the soil conditions as they are observed and found must be the starting point before any distubance of a soil can begin. This aids in determining what methods and procedures are to be used to make a site study. This is NOT a couple of paragraphs preparatory to the "dig". For instance, the use of a backhoe can be critical - the teeth alone of a backhoe can disturb a soil site negatively so that evidence of the real soil condition and study of it cannot be accurate without extreme care and professional expertise applied at all times. You just don't start digging. Certain procedures must be layed out before invading a site of any kind. This lady brought graphically the care needed, for instance, in employing a backhoe operation. Only small amounts of surface, need be disturbed or invaded. Then one expert anthropologist/archaeologist must monitor the back hoe that has been designed to have a straight edge, not teeth, as teeth destroy needed evidence of the soil and can destroy artifacts, and other important observations necessary. A second archaeologist needs to monitor just the soil as it is exposed bit by bit, carefully so as to spot any details of the soil that are needed for further examingation. The backhoe opr. might have to stop suddenly when artifacts or other data are observed or sensed. So, the coordination of the hoe opr., and the 2 professional observers must be correographed in such a way that a sudden signal to "STOP!" is imperitive to a concerned archaeological dig, as artifacts of various can be overlooked or destroyed in the procedure. A rock material that has been chipped, or the chips from a rock material can indicate human alteration as for a kind of tool of the past or a shovel invasion by a human being. Even pieces of glass are very important - coffins in early times may have had a glass window in the top of the coffin and this glass may be in the site, or the glass left by grave diggers who may have been drinking on the job, so to speak, left their trace of glass. And ( not supposed to begin a sentence with a connector such as and) the ability to analyze that derelict piece of glass can tell some stories about vintage (no, not the squeezins, but perhaps that, too) of the glass making process giving evidence of time frame. Its the little things in Life that counts, and it certainly applies here, when a thorough analyses is sought, to tell the rest of the Story! Digging huge toothy clamshells of dirt at a site with a backhoe and dumping those loads into a large dumptruck to be hauled away from the site, who knows where, and then returning later with loads to put back into the digs, is not your professional way of doing analyses, as sometimes a fairly good sized piece of curbing, complete with the yellow paint on it was obviously not from the site dig, unless blindness has set in. This is not an archaeological procedure for digging. Use of the auger, say 4" when it strikes something like a tree root or a rock/boulder type object stops the auger, but either side of the obstruction is there and can be found by moving the auger aside since this was the purpose of the dig. Different sized augers may be necessary in some instances. Depth in smaller increments is or should be a part of the procedure as determined by the Preliminary Report or whatever the professional calls it before the dig is ever begun. Sensing devices such as are used to detect or sense a "spot" of interest called an anomoly, as I recall, used to aid in a place of interest to be further explored, use various methods for the probe. In addition to the one used at first at the site, was another, the magnetometer which probes much more deeply. All of these and other methods may be used to aid in finding items of interest to the professional archaeologist, that the untrained eye and brain would overlook. This discussion of what I learned from listening to a professional describe the pre-planning, the preparation, the operations along the lines of an acute observer, trained to see what others don't see, nor sense, was an education that most of us don't get the opportunity to experience in a diminutive amount of time. I was glad that I attended the afternoon session as it was very interesting, educational, and makes one aware of how pieces of a puzzle can come together. We experience this continually in our pursuit of the fascinating diligence we call genealogy - the adrenelin just starts pumping when the puzzle begins to take shape and begins to have success, no matter how small. The drive innoculates, and away we all go. Those lulls, and stone walls, continually confront us - hurdles - sometimes we make it over the top and oftentime we just hit the dirt, and not the "pay dirt"! But, just leave it alone for awhile - or just "give up" and darned if it doesn't somehow over a period of time appear out of nowhere. These computers and the quick info we are able to attain right in our homes, these days, just make that easier and more attainable. Most of us recall the hours we spent in various libraries, and other repositories of data - I have a 4 drawer steel filing cabinet full of it, but Oh! it so nice when the screen does, what used to be a chore. Catching buses to the Seattle Library, stop at the bank & get myriads of dimes and nickles for the copying machine where you waited you turn, and you made several copies that you ash canned. Genealogists do a lot of digging and archaeologists, and anthropologist do a lot of digging but the preparation that goes into it, then the actual digging, and the careful observation and brainwork used to not overlook anything, and the follow up and utilization of your findings to arrive at the "finished product" - but is there a real "finish" to them - more like building blocks, or Lincoln Logs. How much building do you want? Infinitesimal, isn't it. Didn't mean to get carried away, but today is another day. This was all off the top of my head, where the white stuff is getting thinner; no notes, except mental, so I accept all responsibility for the shortcoming. Maybe tomorrow's Herald or some other rag will have something to ponder re the Subject. Carroll, Snohomish. & & & 30 & & & ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Thanks, Carroll. Since I'm not going to be up there again, I appreciate the description of the testimony. Makes me feel like I almost attended. Evelyn

The SE corner of the cemetery where Pilchuck Jack was buried is in the area the city plans to use for their Youth Center, which is known as the old Indian cemetery. When the local white pioneers began using this cemetery they tended to stay to the west since they knew the Indians were buried on the east side, along the Pilchuck River, a site they could have been using for many years before any whites settled there. There could be hundreds of Indians buried here and as we all know it is against state and federal law to disturb an Indian burial ground, except in Snohomish! Pilchuck Jack's wife was Pilchuck Julia who CC has told us a lot about. Don't you think it is interesting the city seems to have done no research as our committee has. They don't seem to care who might have been buried there. Have you noticed since they first found the actual one set of remains when it was determined they were Indian remains, they have never again mentioned "Indian", nor has Leslie Moriarty? They seem to have a set strategy and are trying hard not to deviate from it. What an education! Norma John Wm Sloniker wrote: > > This was sent last January and is still true today. -- jws > > http://www.heraldnet.com/opinion/letters/ > > Sunday, January 11, 1998 Letters > HeraldNet - Letters SNOHOMISH CEMETERY > > Don't disturb ancestors > > Aren't our ancestors entitled to respect and reverence anymore? A > reporter for The Herald recently wrote an article about the actions > being taken by the city of Snohomish at the Snohomish Cemetery. > > Would you want a building and parking lot built over your father's > grave? That's what the city of Snohomish has done and now they want to > cover even more of Snohomish Cemetery located on the east side of town > at the junction of U.S. 2 and the Pilchuck River. Many local Indians as > well as white settlers were buried at this site. Several burial plots > were removed when U.S. 2 was built but no records show that any remains > were removed from the south portion of the cemetery. Pilchuck Jack, the > last chief of the Pilchuck Indian Tribe, was buried in 1905 in the > southeast corner of the cemetery with only a wooden board to mark > the location. > > Snohomish has removed all the monuments and graded the cemetery. They > say no remains can be found there. However, by law, no remains can be > removed from a cemetery without copious records kept. There are no > records of bodies exhumed from the south portion of the Indian Cemetery. > It's easy to remove monuments and headstones and then claim the bodies > are gone, too. > > It would be easy to say that the city of Snohomish is applying a lesser > standard of concern and reverence for the dead because, after all, they > were just some local Indians. It's not like the gravesides are from a > more recent time and likely to have living relatives. It should not > matter who is buried there. White, Black, Asian or Indian -- all people > deserve respect. I would hope that Snohomish would respect the final > resting place of Pilchuck Jack and others and leave them in peace where > they are, overlooking the Pilchuck River. > > JOHN AMMETER > Snohomish Tribe of Indians > > General Web site comments: > <A HREF="mailto:newmedia@heraldnet.com">newmedia@heraldnet.com</A> > > Copyright (c) 1998 The Daily Herald Co., Everett, Wash. > <A HREF="http://www.heraldnet.com/about/legal.htm">

This was sent last January and is still true today. -- jws http://www.heraldnet.com/opinion/letters/ Sunday, January 11, 1998 Letters HeraldNet - Letters SNOHOMISH CEMETERY Don't disturb ancestors Aren't our ancestors entitled to respect and reverence anymore? A reporter for The Herald recently wrote an article about the actions being taken by the city of Snohomish at the Snohomish Cemetery. Would you want a building and parking lot built over your father's grave? That's what the city of Snohomish has done and now they want to cover even more of Snohomish Cemetery located on the east side of town at the junction of U.S. 2 and the Pilchuck River. Many local Indians as well as white settlers were buried at this site. Several burial plots were removed when U.S. 2 was built but no records show that any remains were removed from the south portion of the cemetery. Pilchuck Jack, the last chief of the Pilchuck Indian Tribe, was buried in 1905 in the southeast corner of the cemetery with only a wooden board to mark the location. Snohomish has removed all the monuments and graded the cemetery. They say no remains can be found there. However, by law, no remains can be removed from a cemetery without copious records kept. There are no records of bodies exhumed from the south portion of the Indian Cemetery. It's easy to remove monuments and headstones and then claim the bodies are gone, too. It would be easy to say that the city of Snohomish is applying a lesser standard of concern and reverence for the dead because, after all, they were just some local Indians. It's not like the gravesides are from a more recent time and likely to have living relatives. It should not matter who is buried there. White, Black, Asian or Indian -- all people deserve respect. I would hope that Snohomish would respect the final resting place of Pilchuck Jack and others and leave them in peace where they are, overlooking the Pilchuck River. JOHN AMMETER Snohomish Tribe of Indians General Web site comments: <A HREF="mailto:newmedia@heraldnet.com">newmedia@heraldnet.com</A> Copyright (c) 1998 The Daily Herald Co., Everett, Wash. <A HREF="http://www.heraldnet.com/about/legal.htm">

Norma Lewis wrote: > > Thank you for this, John. I didn't even think to check the Herald Page for > another article. > > Interesting points I noticed - Don't know if everybody noticed: > > 1. The Seniors do indeed have their own attorney! > 2. The city has done a complete turn-around in strategy, as Tom Haensly noted. > They have a good case this way since no evidence remains of the cemetery after > they bulldozed it! > 3. I hope Tom H. was able to give descriptive info on the site, otherwise, the > Judge will see nothing but an empty lot beside the Senior Center. > 4. The gal who testified for Northwest Archeologists gave the impression that > expensive testing was the only way to prove there are additional remains which > is not true. There is document evidence which Tom H. will present with his > defense. > 5. Leslie Moriarty has once again left out pertinent facts. I swear she's > chosen sides. Sorry, Diane, I know she is a friend. Would you talk to her? > 6. This article makes it sound like John Low is the only pioneer buried at > this site and neglects to mention the Indian aspect. > 7. In one of these two articles Leslie should have clearly identified the > parties involved. Wonder if she will in her third article, already. > It is the Moores, their daughter Carolyn and husband, and the Indian tribes > against the city of Snohomish and now the Senior Center. > > I really believe the Seniors are being badly used in this situation. In the > first place, that building should never have been placed there in the first > place, I hope Tom brings that up. The Seniors have resources they are not > using and they shouldn't have had to hire an attorney to fix something the > city caused. If they had enforced their city building laws in the first place > the Seniors wouldn't be in this fix, so why do the Seniors have to hire an > attorney? It is a political ploy. > Norma > > I'm sending this to the list because there are people on the list interested > in this case, so if you get this twice just delete and don't squeek! > > John Wm Sloniker wrote: > > > > This is from this morning's Everett Herald. Sorry to be late. - jws > > > > Everett HeraldNet Home Page > > http://www.heraldnet.com > > > > HeraldNet - Local News - Dispute over the dead > > http://www.heraldnet.com/localnews/ > > > > Tuesday, October 13, 1998 > > > > Arguments begin in trial over use of cemetery site > > > > By LESLIE MORIARTY > > Herald Writer > > > > A dispute over the status of property at Second Street and Pine Avenue > > in Snohomish, once used as a cemetery and now wanted by the city of > > Snohomish for a youth center, moved into Snohomish County Superior > > Court Monday. > > > > The city of Snohomish is asking Judge Charles French to declare that the > > property can be used for purposes other than a cemetery, so that a youth > > center can be built on part of the land, next to where a senior center > > was established in 1991. > > > > But family of at least one pioneer, John Low, who was buried in the > > cemetery near the turn of the century, has asked the judge to preserve > > the cemetery dedication for the property, to keep the youth center out > > and to relocate the senior center. > > > > Many of the remains were removed from the property when the old U.S. 2 > > was built in 1947. The highway, now Second Street, cut the property in > > two. On the north side of the street, some gravestones remain as part > > of Pioneer Village, a replica of old Snohomish built by the local > > historical society. > > > > On the south side of the street, where the senior center now stands > > and the city wants to build a youth center, all visual traces of the > > cemetery are gone. > > > > City officials once believed that all the human remains had been > > removed, however, tests last summer uncovered one set of remains still > > on the south side of the property. They haven't been identified. > > > > Nancy Sharp, an archaeologist with Northwest Archaeological Associates > > Inc., Seattle, who was on site when the remains were found, testified > > Monday that there was a probability that there were more bodies buried > > in the area, but that the only way to know for sure was to complete > > more tests. > > > > City officials, however, said that they do not plan to do that and if > > the judge agrees to remove the dedication as a cemetery, they will go > > forward with plans for a youth center. > > > > Local residents who are members of the senior center testified Monday > > that they did not have the money to relocate and that moving would > > create a hardship for them. > > > > Tom Haensly, an attorney for several parties opposing the city, said it > > was clear by the testimony Monday that the city had changed its position > > from one of saying the property was not a cemetery to a position that > > "they don't care that there are bodies there," he said. > > > > "It seems they are conceding that this is a cemetery, but that they see > > what they are doing with the property -- a senior center and a youth > > center -- to be in the greater public good," he said. > > > > At the end of testimony Monday, Judge French, Haensly, Bill Sullivan, > > the attorney for the senior center, and Thom Graafstra, the attorney for > > the city of Snohomish, ventured out in the rain to view the property. > > > > Testimony in the trial, which resumes at 9:30 a.m. today in > > Department 4, is expected to continue through Wednesday. > > > > You can contact Leslie Moriarty by phone at 425-339-3436 > > or you can send e-mail to her at moriarty@heraldnet.com > > > > Comments: newmedia@heraldnet.com > > > > Copyright (c) 1998 The Daily Herald Co., Everett, Wash. > > http://www.heraldnet.com/about/legal.htm

The Herald, Tues, Oct 13, 1998 Local New section, 1B QUOTED AS FOLLOWS: Dispute over the dead Arguments begin in trial over use of cemetery site (Accompanying picture by The Herald/Dan Bates, On a rainswept afternoon Monday, attorneys ( from left) William Sullivan, Thomas Haensly and Thom Graafstra take a walk with Judge Charles French (right) through a preserved portion pf Snohomish's historic cemetery. Behind them and across a road is a section of land being disputed in court. (Comment:"a preserved portion of Snohomish's historic cemetery" is not an actual cemetery, but the replica of a cemetery - stones were taken from other parts of the Cemetery and placed in the replica village on the North portion of the actual cemetery left on the North side after the Hwy 2, now 2nd Street cut was made in 1947. CC.) By Leslie Moriarty, Herald Writer A dispute over the status of property at Second Street and Pine Avenue in Snohomish (Actually it is Second and Cypress -CC) Snohomish, once used as a cemetery and now wanted by the city of Snohomish for a youth center, moved into Snohomish County Superior Court Monday. The city of Snohomish is asking Judge Charles French to declare that the property can be used for purposes other than a cemetery, so that a youth center can be built on part of the land, next to where a senior center was established in 1991. But family of at least one pioneer, John Low, who was buried in the cemetery near the turn of the century, has asked the judge preserve the cemetery dedication for the property, to keep the youth center out and to relocate the senior center. Many of the remains were removed from the property when the old U.S. 2 was built in 1947. The highway, now Second Street, cut the property in two. On the north side of the street, some gravestones remain as part of Pioneer Village, a replica of old Snohomish built by the local historical society. On the south side of the street, where the senior center now stands and the city wants to build a youth center, all visual traces of the cemetery are gone. (Comment: Weeds allowed to grow tall hide the cemetery base stones dumped under a clump of trees right at the NE corner of the Sr Ctr. - sandstone bases, and one pink marble with T H O M A S on it - the rest of the Thomas stone is across the highway in the replica cem. - CC) City officials once believed that all the human remains had been removed, however, tests last summer uncovered one set of remains still on the south side of the property. They haven't been identified. Nancy Sharp, an archaeologist with Northwest Archaeological Associates Inc., Seattle, who was on site when the remains were found, testified Monday that there was a probability that there were more bodies buried in the area, but that the only way to know for sure was to complete more tests. See CEMETERY, back page, this section 6B) City officials, however, said that they do not plan to do that and if the judge agrees to remove the dedication as a cemetery, they will go forward with the plans for a youth center. Local residents who are members of the senior center testified Monday that they did not have the money to relocate and that moving would create a hardship for them. Tom Haensly, an attorney for several parties opposing the city, said it was clear by the testimony Monday that the city had changed its position from one of saying the property was not a cemetery to a position that "they don't care that there are bodies there," he said. "It seems they are conceding that this is a cemetery, but that they see what they are doing with the property - a senior center and a youth center - to be in the greater public good," he said. At the end of testimony Monday, Judge French, Haensly, Bill Sullivan, the attorney for the senior center, and Thom Graafstra the attorney for the city of Snohomish, ventured out in the rain to view the property. Testimony in the trial, which resumes at 9:30 a.m. today in Department 4, is expected to continue through Wedbesday. You can contact Leslie Moriarty by phone at 425 - 339-3436 or you can send e-mail to her at moriarty@heraldnet.com END OF QUOTED ARTICLE with my comments - CC. Try http://www.heraldnet.com/search/search.cfm for Oct 12, 98 and Oct 13, 98 the article may or may not appear. Try also dates June 20, 98 Front Page of Herald, and July 7, 98Local New Sec. B, for other cem articles which may appear using the Herald website Carroll, Snohomish * * * 30 * * * ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Cyndi, You are a diplomat and wonderful to have as list owner. God Bless. Earl Armbrust

Well, yes, I concede different programs read e-mail differently, and I am sorry for any misunderstanding. However, if you see a signature at the end of the message wouldn't you assume that was the author and not the line across the top? I would, but I'm on lots of lists and see all kinds of screwy things and don't take any of it personally. I try to delete extra data and not send it on, sometimes I forget, and I don't expect anyone to complain about that either, but they do! Poor CC, he just doesn't want to be blamed for anything I say about the cemetery - we only agree on part of the story! But, we are very good friends. Right CC? Norma "John E.S. Driver" wrote: > > ** Reply to message from Norma Lewis <norie@localaccess.com> on Tue, 13 Oct > 1998 13:24:14 -0700 > > Norma, > > You wrote: > > > When the line is "bold" it means > > it was part of a previous message. > > Not wishing to disagree with anybody, but you should bear in mind that not all > e-mail readers present things the same way, and so some people can get a false > impression without anybody being to blame. I don't see any lines in bold on the > reader I am using, even though I can vary the presentation three different ways. > What I do get is the ">" in front of quoted lines and the "> >" in front of > requoted lines which many mailers help you to insert. > > John, in > Lewisham, Greater London, England

At 10:37 AM 10/13/98 -0400, you wrote: >Cyndi, > >Is there someone in TPCGS that helps with policy re: gen stuff at >the NWR? > >Thanks, > >Cheryl NWR? I'm afraid that I need a bit more to go on than that. Cyndi

>But who is this Robert1815 who's decided to spam us in consequence? Hi folks - I received several notes about Roberts messages, similar to the one above. I heard from Robert today. He had a problem with his computer and had to pull the plug in order to get it to stop sending. His mouse button was stuck. Let's all decide not to give him a hard time about it, OK? He has been a long-time subscriber to our list and he didn't intentionally spam us or do anything to annoy us. He's a great guy and is worried to have caused any problems for anyone. I hate to have bad feelings towards anyone on the list merely because of a small computer error. We all have computer problems at one time or another. We all make mistakes at one time or another. We have all had a bad day (week, month, year) every once in a while. As a group we need to be less critical and do more to pat one another on the back. Let's let Robert know that we understand how irksome those computer gremlins can be. And if it isn't computer gremlins, then it must be computer hamsters. You know, the ones who make all those odd grinding noises coming from the depths of the computer hardware. It is my opinion that the gremlins/hamsters have a wonderful time taunting us, giggling and snickering while we struggle to get things to work smoothly. As genealogists we are familiar with a similar mocking that comes from the long-dead ancestors as they laugh uproariously from the great-beyond while we dig through roll after roll of microfilm... I refuse to let my computer mock me. Be sure to tell yours that you are the boss Robert! And ignore the giggling of the gremlins. ;-) Now - I challenge one and all to post some well-worded, concise queries here. Let's see this thing work for us! Cyndi (whose new computer refuses to do the same thing twice with the fancy stereo system it came with....sometimes its on....sometimes its off....)

** Reply to message from Norma Lewis <norie@localaccess.com> on Tue, 13 Oct 1998 13:24:14 -0700 Norma, You wrote: > When the line is "bold" it means > it was part of a previous message. Not wishing to disagree with anybody, but you should bear in mind that not all e-mail readers present things the same way, and so some people can get a false impression without anybody being to blame. I don't see any lines in bold on the reader I am using, even though I can vary the presentation three different ways. What I do get is the ">" in front of quoted lines and the "> >" in front of requoted lines which many mailers help you to insert. John, in Lewisham, Greater London, England

** Reply to message from Cyndi Howells <cyndihow@oz.net> on Mon, 12 Oct 1998 16:06:33 -0700 Cyndi, > Again, have to apologize for the nasty message we all received. I > wish there was more we could do to prevent this stuff. The apology is due from other parties, not yourself. Thanks for making sure these incursions make no repeat appearance here. Genealogy leaves me little enough spare time without having to plough through acres of plagiarised internet jokes like that one for the nth time! But who is this Robert1815 who's decided to spam us in consequence? John, in Lewisham, Greater London, England

CC: I did not cut and paste - I answered a message John wrote in answer to one you wrote and when I deleted your message, my e-mail program added the line -Carroll wrote - my name is under the message as the writer! I think everyone except you understands that. When the line is "bold" it means it was part of a previous message. Sorry, CC, I will be more careful! Norma Carroll H Clark wrote: > > Norma, et al, please be careful when you cut & paste, or whatever because > the results can be misleading and not what was intended. > I want to keep amenable as I can, but when I see things go awry, then I > am like a turtle, I retract, quickly. When I read this I was not a happy > turtle: > > > #4 Re: CEMETERY- Snohomish FYI: [Norma Lewis > ><norie@localaccess.com] > > >------------------------------ > > > >X-Message: #4 > >Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 18:17:55 -0700 > >From: Norma Lewis <norie@localaccess.com> > >To: PSRoots-L@rootsweb.com > >Message-ID: <3622AA43.AEB1795A@localaccess.com> > >Subject: Re: CEMETERY- Snohomish FYI: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > (Comment by Carroll - I did NOT write the following, Yes, John, etc. > but someone might think I had, by the "wrote" implication. It should read > Norma Lewis wrote: obviously your name is at the bottom of this > particular clip, and I understan it - others may not, and think I wrote > it.) > > Carroll H. Clark wrote: > > > >Yes, John, the media are helping the city make this a political issue > >- the > >Seniors moved that old house onto the cemetery 6 years ago, but they > >can't > >move it off? The city disassociated themselves with the Seniors this > >summer > >and forced them to hire their own attorney to the tune of $2500, > >remember? Now > >the city is using the Seniors to save their "construction site"! This > >judge > >cannot condone illegal building practices. It should have been torn > >down in > >1992 when they neglected to get a building permit! > >Norma > > > (Carroll's comment - this is signed by Norma, who wrote the para above, > not Carroll wrote. My writing yesterday, was the following para that > begins with "The Court Hearing. . .", actually. Date today is Tues, Oct. > 13, '98). > > (I think what I am going to have to do is simply quit writing these > things which are meant for PSR FYI, generally, but get repeated several > times - same info but from various persons and the cut and pasting or > whatever sometimes mangles the original intent. > We don't need multiple copies of the same info that simply takes up space > with repetition. > > Yes, this is what I, Carroll, did write, that's all: > >> > >> The Court Hearing will reconvene at 9:30 a.m. Tuesday Oct 13th. when > >more > >> witnesses will be heard. The courtroom was filled - mostly with Sr. > >> Citizens who came from Snohomish to attend the hearings. > >> > >> Carroll. > >> >> > My intent is not to offend, but to keep a friendly bases as PS Roots is a > very friendly site and I wish to keep it that way, but I must speak up > when I see something that doesn't look right from my keyboard. (my > transposition errors, terrible sentences, spelling errors, and screwing > up the grammar is bad enough for me to see when I > reread what just went out the window of the mail box. - LOL).Guess I'm > getting crotchety & hypersensitive, but . . . > Thank you, if you can understand what I am trying to convey, as best I > can. > Best regards intended, > Carroll in Old Snohomish, > * * * 30 * * * > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Norma, et al, please be careful when you cut & paste, or whatever because the results can be misleading and not what was intended. I want to keep amenable as I can, but when I see things go awry, then I am like a turtle, I retract, quickly. When I read this I was not a happy turtle: > #4 Re: CEMETERY- Snohomish FYI: [Norma Lewis ><norie@localaccess.com] >------------------------------ > >X-Message: #4 >Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 18:17:55 -0700 >From: Norma Lewis <norie@localaccess.com> >To: PSRoots-L@rootsweb.com >Message-ID: <3622AA43.AEB1795A@localaccess.com> >Subject: Re: CEMETERY- Snohomish FYI: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > (Comment by Carroll - I did NOT write the following, Yes, John, etc. but someone might think I had, by the "wrote" implication. It should read Norma Lewis wrote: obviously your name is at the bottom of this particular clip, and I understan it - others may not, and think I wrote it.) > Carroll H. Clark wrote: > >Yes, John, the media are helping the city make this a political issue >- the >Seniors moved that old house onto the cemetery 6 years ago, but they >can't >move it off? The city disassociated themselves with the Seniors this >summer >and forced them to hire their own attorney to the tune of $2500, >remember? Now >the city is using the Seniors to save their "construction site"! This >judge >cannot condone illegal building practices. It should have been torn >down in >1992 when they neglected to get a building permit! >Norma (Carroll's comment - this is signed by Norma, who wrote the para above, not Carroll wrote. My writing yesterday, was the following para that begins with "The Court Hearing. . .", actually. Date today is Tues, Oct. 13, '98). (I think what I am going to have to do is simply quit writing these things which are meant for PSR FYI, generally, but get repeated several times - same info but from various persons and the cut and pasting or whatever sometimes mangles the original intent. We don't need multiple copies of the same info that simply takes up space with repetition. Yes, this is what I, Carroll, did write, that's all: >> >> The Court Hearing will reconvene at 9:30 a.m. Tuesday Oct 13th. when >more >> witnesses will be heard. The courtroom was filled - mostly with Sr. >> Citizens who came from Snohomish to attend the hearings. >> >> Carroll. >> >> My intent is not to offend, but to keep a friendly bases as PS Roots is a very friendly site and I wish to keep it that way, but I must speak up when I see something that doesn't look right from my keyboard. (my transposition errors, terrible sentences, spelling errors, and screwing up the grammar is bad enough for me to see when I reread what just went out the window of the mail box. - LOL).Guess I'm getting crotchety & hypersensitive, but . . . Thank you, if you can understand what I am trying to convey, as best I can. Best regards intended, Carroll in Old Snohomish, * * * 30 * * * ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

In a message dated 10/13/98 2:26:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, cyndihow@oz.net writes: << NWR? I'm afraid that I need a bit more to go on than that. Cyndi >> Whoops, sorry... Northwest Room..... Cheryl

In a message dated 10/13/98 1:25:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time, norie@localaccess.com writes: << When the line is "bold" it means it was part of a previous message. Sorry, CC, I will be more careful! Norma >> Norma, Many email programs cannot see any type of formatting such as bold, colors and different fonts. AOL cannot see most of these things from other services, but email between AOL users can be formatted with just about anything including photos. The only formatting that is universal are the actual letter and most symbol characters. Thanks, Cheryl

Some of this info may be limited to King County, but most counties will have an assessor's file, if you can find out how it is stored. In 1965 I did research through the assessor's files when they were still in the King County Court House on 3rd Ave in Seattle. Most of the information is "public records", though you may have to persist to view them. - jws vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv Researching your Seattle home or building http://www.seattletimes.com/news/lifestyles/html98/reas_101298.html Posted at 03:49 a.m. PDT; Monday, October 12, 1998 1. Order the King County Assessors Property Record card and photograph from: Washington State Archives, Puget Sound Regional Branch Pritchard-Fleming Building, Bellevue Community College 3000 Landerholm Circle S.E., Bellevue, WA 98007-6484; 425-373-3940 These archives house a photograph and general description of nearly every building in King County that existed in 1937 and those built between 1938 and 1972. They are organized by King County Assessor Parcel number (a k a Tax ID number) or brief legal description. The parcel number can be obtained by calling the Assessor's Office with the building's address, 206-296-7300. With parcel number or legal description, photographs may be ordered. 2. Get a list of building permits for the property from: The Department of Construction and Land Use Microfilm Library, Dexter Horton Building, 710 Second Ave., Suite 200, Seattle, WA 98104-1703 Building permits are organized by building address. Tell the clerk you are trying to locate the original building permit. 3. Check fire-insurance maps from: -- University of Washington Special Collections, Suzzallo Building, Newspapers and Microfilm Department 206-543-1939 -- Seattle Public Library Central Branch Humanities Department 1000 Fourth Ave., first floor 206-386-4625 Sanborn maps, compiled for fire insurance, provide information about a building's location and "footprint," as well as construction material, heating systems and number of floors. 4. Get list of owners from: -- Property Record Cards 1937-1972; Washington State Archives, Puget Sound Regional Branch (as above) -- Assessment rolls, 1892-1941; Washington State Archives, Puget Sound Regional Branch (as above) The Property Record Card gives a legal description; or call King County Department of Assessments at 206-296-7300 with the building's address. 5. Get lists of residents/occupants from: -- Seattle Polk Directories Reverse Directory sections (1938-1996), located at Seattle Public Library (as above) and UW Library Special Collections, Allen Library, 206-543-1929 -- Look up owners you know in Seattle Polk Directories' main sections (locations as above) Seattle Polk Directories were published nearly every year from the 1880s to 1996. They include alphabetical listings of Seattle residents and businesses; a classified business section organized under types of businesses; and, starting in 1938, a reverse directory, which listed every resident and business by his or her street address. 6. Follow leads on businesses and/or notable persons via: The Northwest Newspaper Card Index, located at Seattle Public Library (as above) and UW Library Special Collections (as above). These indexes include biographical, business and other subject- indexed information relating to local history. The collections were compiled independently and frequently contain different information. 7. Look for any published histories of your neighborhood. 8. Contact heirs of your building's occupants, neighborhood old-timers and long-time residents of the area. Compiled by house and building historian Greg Lange of History Link for the Nearby History program. For information about Nearby History classes, which are held at the Museum of History & Industry and at Seattle public libraries, contact Lorraine McConaghy at 206-324-1685, ext 23. --------------------------- E-mail Comments to Editor : Comments@seatimes.com The Seattle Times home page http://www.seattletimes.com/ Seattle Times: Table of Content http://www.seattletimes.com/news/ The Seattle Times: Search Archive http://www.seattletimes.com/extra/search.html The Seattle Times: Browse by date http://www.seattletimes.com/todaysnews/browse.html Permission requests and information http://www/seatimes.com/general/info.html Copyright (c) 1998 The Seattle Times Company http://www.seattletimes.com/news/general/copyright.html