On Wed, 14 Oct 1998 22:02:20 -0700 clarkw7iml writes: >Dann, I really enjoyed your ans, and I will ans further on it as, >right after this msg, I will print your response so that I can refer >to it and I will get copies of it to Alpha White Hammond, and to Robt. >l. Bisnett. > >What I really wrote this for is to ask you if you recall a farmer by >the name of >Walt (phonetic surname is "guy") Guay. Gauy, - I know that there are >abt 4 letters in his last name, but I can't quite spell it accurately >but it rhimes with the sound of "guy". >That is the person whose name I was trying to recall when I was >writing to you - then tonite, it suddenly came to me that that is the >name of the farmer who had the clump of cascara trees that we used to >get our bark from. >Walt was a fun guy, and he loved to pull pranks - well, he would tell >us about this "swamp organ" that hid out in his swamp and it would >make the darndest sounds, and that we were to be very careful not to >disturb it, as it was able to climb trees fast. > Well, we were gullible kids, and one time when we were up in the >trees peeling that cascara from them, suddenly we heard the most awful >sound come up from that swamp area, and we both came a shagging down >those trees, sans cascara bark and ran for our lives. As, I recall, >we never went back cascara peeling after that. We never did see the >swamp organ, but from the sound of it, we didn't want to. >Taken in hook, line and sinker. >We still laugh when we look back at how gullible we were in that >incident! >I need to see my friend from that time and recall our episode with the >grotesque sound of the SWAMP ORGAN! Bet, that will ellicit a great >laugh from our past in Old Snohomish of the 1930s. >I'll get back to you shortly on your latest msg and thanks for the >info. > >Carroll ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

GENEALOGY EUREKA! THANKS AGAIN TO JOHN SLONIKER WHO IS ALWAY ON THE BALL AND HELPING OTHERS - HERE IS ANOTHER OF HIS SUCCESSES: On Thu, 15 Oct 1998 20:26:32 EDT Rusmr3@aol.com writes: >Mr. Clark, > > Just read the last response that you wrote ref. the cemetery; it >was great. >I hope that it is settled soon and that your side comes out on top. We >have a >lot of trouble back here in Fayetteville between the city and the >Historical >Resources Commission. Maybe that is what you need to form I know that >our >commission really works and keeps the city at bay when it comes to >removing,renovating,or destroying anything. Good luck, I am pulling >for you, >if I was there I would be right in the middle. > > By the way before I get to involved, and keyed up; I want you to >know >that I called Bob Bisnett today on my lunch hour. We had a great chat, >and he >told me to relay a hello for him. He also told me that the Whites >were having >a family reunion next summer, the 3rd Sunday in July at lake Blackmon. >Said >that they also have a golf tourament named after my Great Uncle. I am >going to >send him some forms to fill out about Family history, and he promised >to write >down everything that he can remember. I am so excited to find out that >I have >such a neat family. I want to Thank you for what you have already >done, and I >hope that someday I will be able to return the favor. Bob said that >you have >known each other since the 2nd grade.I can truthfully say that he has >the >privledge of having a great friend. > > Thank you again for the help and I hope to meet you in person >soon, it >will be a great honor. > >Sincerely, Dann Sears > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Hi. I have these PRITCHARDs in my database PRITCHARD, Porter J. 1853.1917 (Father) PRITCHARD, Ida l. 1865-1931 (Mother) buried at Pleasant Ridge Cem, Skagit County Wa There is also a listing in the Skagit Valley Pioneer Book...which I have misplaced... I'm looking. I have placed your name on the surname list on the Skagit US GenWeb page. Darilee ---------- > From: William J. Moseley <bmoseley@napanet.net> > To: BOOKSTORELADY@prodigy.net > Subject: Skagit Co. Surname Registry" > Date: Friday, October 16, 1998 8:01 AM > > Surname: Pritchard > Research: Diane Dillon > e-mail address: ddillon@napanet.net > >

Glen: The last name of this Indian family was "Jack" - Julia was married to him so her last name was Jack. When we were looking for possible Indian descendants in Snohomish I found several "Jacks" listed in the Snohomish phone book but nobody followed up on that. If I lived there I would have knocked on their door and asked if they were related to this Indian family. There could have been "Jacks" in other Indian tribes also. Is it documented somewhere that Pilchuck Jack's grave washed into the river? Never heard that...... Norma TATANKA834@aol.com wrote: > > Norma: It's Pilchuck Julia and Pilchuck Jack. Julia was moved to the GAR > cemeytery. Jack's grave was warshed into the Pilchuck river..glen

I would like an obituary for Christine (Stakemiller) COOPER, b. June 8, 1903, d. July 26th, 1980 in Olympia, WA. She was the wife of Alex T. COOPER. I need the name and address of the Olympia newspaper so that I can send a request. Thanks for any help you can give me. Linda McDowell, San Juan Capistrano, CA limcd@pacbell.net

In a message dated 10/15/98 5:37:12 PM, you wrote: <<I would like an obituary for Christine (Stakemiller) COOPER, b. June 8, 1903, d. July 26th, 1980 in Olympia, WA. She was the wife of Alex T. COOPER. I need the name and address of the Olympia newspaper so that I can send a request. Thanks for any help you can give me. Linda McDowell, San Juan Capistrano, CA limcd@pacbell.net >> The Daily Olympian's web site is: http://www.theolympian.com/ phone - 360-754-5400 Phil Rutledge

Norma: It's Pilchuck Julia and Pilchuck Jack. Julia was moved to the GAR cemeytery. Jack's grave was warshed into the Pilchuck river..glen

Judge Charles French will make his decision Oct 26th. 9 a.m. Monday. Carroll of Snohomish & & & 30 & & & ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Today, Judge Charles French, of Sno Co. Supr Ct, SCW will make a decision of Law accdg to what has been presented, along with deliberation, final argument, then weighing the preponderance of the evidence, and make his decision. Unhappiness is bound to occur - and faces grimaced, fingers pointed, head shaking, tears welling because so much has gone into this hurdle in Life. The Seniors don't want to lose their senior center that they put so much work into developing. The youth, naturally, want a youth center - youth centers are needed - these days especially! The City of Snohomish wants this land, that land and those lands - they have plans for the future, etc. They and Snohomish County have been past masters at this game. They win some and lose some. But, they never cease the seeking of land via the various "lawful means" and maneuvering that goes on over TIME. They have been through the hurdles of the history of the town's past and they know the weaknesses and strengths of how to attain what they want, in TIME. Snohomish had a youth center during WWII, as we all went there frequently - we had a name for it and I cannot recall ( like many things) the exact name of it . It was a place where kids, like we were, to go and dance, eat, drink (not "that" kind), play games, I suppose - but mostly dancing. The various Teachers, many from high school contributed their time after a full (& I do mean FULL) weeks of teaching and act as chaperons at this place, located NEAR the corner of Ave. A and First Street or Main street of Snohomish, but up the hill a few feet on the left hand, or West side of the street. The bldg still stands there & I believe it is the VFW, but I may be mistaken. In the 20s and the 30s it was a two story bldg. where the Pythians met, as I would attend those meetings, where we had to sit still, be quiet, and when the white/black ball voting for officers took place, we had to step out of the room - then when voting was over someone came to the peep-hole in the door and we could be admitted again, for another, long, drawn-out, boring session of the lodge meeting, during which most of us squirmed and twitched waiting for the thing to get over, to the tune of an old piano, marching, and all sort of shenanigans. That site became our youth center, and when I can find someone who can tell me what it was called, I will report it as it is a part of Dear Ol' Snohomish, of which we all are so fond. Yes, there were hurdles back then, also. And the Tribune would report it, or write according to their perspective of what happened. And there was always the rest of the Story, thinking. The youth center didn't deter those youth who insisted on smoking and drinking as their bent drove them. We had little or no vandalism of ppty, not even headstones, - that came a bit later - oh once in awhile someone would do something, like put sticks of dynamite in the barrel of the WWI cannon that stood on the Snohomish Library huge lawn near the corner of 1st and Cedar Streets. A bright flash, followed immediately by a blast that shook our house as we were playing checkers, at 806 -2nd Street (right across the St from the Starr Mall (former WA Nat'l Guard Armory)next to the Grange Hall. We ran to the front window of our house to see a flaming object fall into the deep gulch across the street - today the parking lot for the Collectors Choice Restaurant and other businesses. Those acts of vandalism didn't happen often - but it was maddening even then to see that cannon with its barrel split apart and the cannon was no more a symbol of our community. Time changes things, even objects. Must stop and go to Court, pdq. Carroll of Snohomish. CULtr! ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

The Herald, Thurs, Oct 15, 1998Sec B Local News, p 2B QUOTED AS FOLLOWS: Snohomish council, Tulalips reach pact on old cemetery site By Leslie Moriarty Herald Writer SNOHOMISH - The city council and the Tulalip Tribes council have reached an agreement regarding development of the Snohomish Senior Center and Youth Center property, which is the site of an old cemetery. The agreement stipulates that a professional archaeologist will work with the city and tribal council representitives to develop a plan for monitoring any construction that takes place on the site of the original Snohomish Cemetery, Second Street and Pine Avenue. (Comment: Actually it is Second Street and Cypress Str, - CC.). The property is the subject of a civil trial currently in Snohomish County Superior Court. The city is asking that a judge remove the dedication of the property as a cemetery so that the city can build a youth center on it. But relatives of some of the people buried in the cemetery in the late 1800s are asking the judge to make the city remove an existing senior center building on the land(*CC.) and allow the rest of the property to remain undeveloped. A decision on the matter may come as soon as Friday. The trial is continuing this week before Judge Charles French. Before going to trial, the city and the tribal council reached the agreement, which states that if the judge rules in favor of the city, a plan will be put in place on what to do with any remains that may be uncovered. The tribes are interested because some historical reports say the cemetery was once an Indian burial ground and may hold remains of their ancestors. The city and tribes have also agreed to design and construct a meaningful memorial to document the historical significance of early Indians and pioneer settlers on the property. City officials said the agreement is an important step toward balancing several competing public needs, which include senior services, youth services and recognizing the historic contribution of the people living in the area. An attorney for the families of people buried in the original cemetery disputed the agreement Tom Haensly, who represents Carolynn Crawford, Ruth Moore and members of the Snohomish Indian Tribe, said the city would be better off spending the money it may pay for the plan and the monument on new senior and youth centers elsewhere, and allow "the cemetery to remain a cemetery." You can contact Herald writer Leslie Moriarty by phone at 425-339-3436 or you can send e-mail to her at moriarty@heraldnet.com END OF QUOTE FROM THE HERALD. _ _ _ *cemetery, not just land. Todate it is still Snohomish Cemetery, not yet undedicated. Time is of the essence in reporting, et al. Information reported can be stretegic, as to when it is written, how it is written, and how it is worded. Reporting is supposed to be unbiased, and not loaded with intent or inuendo or by leaving the reader with information that can sway or influence persons who are not aware of facts, as true facts, and those that have words that tend to leave out thought train and clearly state explicitly took place. I am well aware of this in my own writing. For instance "land" is generally speaking or writing, while "cemetery" is specific. So, chosing words, with broad or specific meaning can change the readers' perspective of what is being related, conveyed, or reported. I think we have seen a lot of this happening in the months that we have been confronted with this hurdle, OR SET OF HURDLES. Even my caps, lay emphasis, on what I say ( emphasis, not shouting; but isn't shouting a form of emphasis! A baby's cry is its way of conveying concern, and the parents "read" that whether it is for food, an uncomfortable diaper, or real and dangerous sense of distress. It is its way of communication as best it can at that point in its Life. We all "cry out" when things don't go right, or we simply go about "solving the problem" as a way of answering the "hurdle". Carroll in Snohomish. & & & 30 & & & ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

** Reply to message from K9504m@aol.com on Wed, 14 Oct 1998 22:10:50 EDT Kitty, > My only regret is that when I saw a dozen or so messages from poor > Robert, I deleted them all without reading any. Now I'm really curious as to > what the original message said that started all this. Oh well.... Guess I'm > just too fast with that delete key. You may never know. There was no message body at all in any of the ones I received. My guess is that the unfortunate sender had no time to commit his thoughts to the screen before his accelerator jammed. May we all (and Cyndi, bless her) be spared from such refractory machines! John, in Lewisham, Greater London, England

I did a search on Mary Todd Lincoln back in February or so and found a lot of information about her on the net. Her mother died when she was a young child and her father remarried. She was from KY. I believe her father's second family was larger than the first and his second family hated Abraham Lincoln so Mary was separated from her family virtually from the date of her marriage. She had one or two older sisters and spent her teenage years with her sister in Springfield IL where I think she met Abe. I hate to say too much off the top of my head as I don't trust my memory. I do remember she was a very tragic figure, losing her mother, losing her sons and then her husband being assassinated didn't help her frail mental condition, although she was not as mentally deficient as she has been said to be through history. Do a search on Alta Vista or Hot Bot on your browser search page. Hot Bot allows you to search for people and exact phrase and has helped me find a lot of biographical info on the net. I suggest you do a search for Mary Todd Lincoln, then Mary Todd, then the name of her father who I believe was Robert Todd. The Lincoln home is a museum in Vermont. If you do a search on Abe or Robert Lincoln you will find that too. The last Lincoln descendant died some 30 years ago so it might be difficult to prove lineage to Mary Todd, I'm not sure, but the house was sold and the new owner has made it a museum. Norma Patty Colleen Yirka wrote: > > Anyone have/know of a detailed genealogy of Mary Ann TODD Lincoln, as I > was told by my father and grandmother that my TODD line is related to > her. Looking for any/all info on,(male)siblings,(male)cousins. My > grandmother was Florence(Flo, Babe)TODD, b 1889/90 possibly 24 Sept. in > Minn. MN > PATTY pwiard@northcoast.com

Anyone have/know of a detailed genealogy of Mary Ann TODD Lincoln, as I was told by my father and grandmother that my TODD line is related to her. Looking for any/all info on,(male)siblings,(male)cousins. My grandmother was Florence(Flo, Babe)TODD, b 1889/90 possibly 24 Sept. in Minn. MN PATTY pwiard@northcoast.com

Kit: That hwy construction in 1947 was done legally by the state. Those of us who have worked on this for almost a year think the records kept by those contractors, the construction crew and the funeral homes involved, is in hiding somewhere because it is to their benefit. The construction crew said when they finished there were numerous graves remaining on both sides of that road, including the graves of Seattle Pioneer John Low and his wife, and his daughter and family, Mary Low Sinclair, as well as many pioneers of the business and logging and fishing industries of Snohomish, as well as Julia Jack, Queen of the Pilchucks, and the Indian cemetery along the river. The Snohomish Historical Society printed historical books in the early 1970's which described the cemetery. Now they are the ones who say there are no graves there! Go figure! Norma Kit Niemann wrote: > > Hi List > > How did the county get by with putting the highway through the cemetary in > the first place? Apparently in 1947 no one was paying attention, that sure > does not help the case now! > > Over here in Kitsap County near Port Orchard we have one deadly sharp > corner, the bay on one side of the road and an Indian cometary on the hill > on the other side of the road. All hell broke lose when the county wanted > to straighten out that road. We still have the narrow sharp corner and the > old cemetery. That uprising was about 1957 or so. > > Kit

I think we know the people working on these California cemeteries. These people have been successful in funding some cemetery preservation but even they didn't save it all. By the time they got started several gold miner's cemeteries had been encroached by builders. They managed to save half of one with the help of a big project who paid for encroaching on the other half of the cemetery and this got these people started with the funds to work on other sites. Radar searches are very expensive. Carolyn Crawford's husband is an archeologist, a Prof. at the University of Kansas. He tried first to interest the U of W Archeology Dept. in preserving this site as an Indian burial site but the U of W is not interested in the Pilchuck Indians. I have written archeologists there too and got no response. Northwest Archeologists who have done the testing for the city used ground penetrating radar but found nothing. They used several testing methods looking for burial remains and people with this experience insist they didn't do it correctly. When they used a long enough prod they did find one gravesite which is documented, which is when the city changed their tune about no graves in the cemetery. Now they admit there may be graves there but they want to build anyway. As per CC's latest announcement, it looks like they will finish and make a decision this week. That seems very fast after all the fooling around they have done over the last year. I hope Tom Haensly has been able to get his points across and the judge is aware that there are graves at this site and will accept the documentation Carolyn has accumulated with a lot of hard work over many months. She has documented some 500 graves that could still be at this site. The state only removed 110 out of a possible 1070 in 1947. The cemetery was visible in 1965 with tombstones. The Herald labeled the photo of the judge and attorneys in the "preservation" cemetery - that is a fake cemetery put together by the historians in Snohomish who should have known better. There are graves under the location of the Pioneer Village also. When they placed the old house across the street for the Senior Center they did it illegally. Now they are hoping this judge will decide it should remain for "the greater good" of the community. It will be interesting to see what happens. It certainly isn't up to those of us who have worked on it for almost a year. Norma NellJune@aol.com wrote: > > I read this in the Summer '98 issue of the Poulsbo RV 'er newspaper, and > thought that it might be of interest to those of you interested in the > Snohomish Cemetery mess: > > "In other California state parks news, at Coloma's Marshall Gold > Discovery State Park, radar "mapping" of two historic cemeteries has begun. > The hope is to identify up 400 lost gravesites. The earliest graves date from > 1849, just a year after James Marshall discovered a gold nugget in the > American River setting off the California Gold Rush." > > The operative phrase here is "radar mapping." Has that been done? Does > anyone have any idea how much that would cost? And who could do it? > > Just something to think about > > Nell > nelljune@aol.com

Hi List How did the county get by with putting the highway through the cemetary in the first place? Apparently in 1947 no one was paying attention, that sure does not help the case now! Over here in Kitsap County near Port Orchard we have one deadly sharp corner, the bay on one side of the road and an Indian cometary on the hill on the other side of the road. All hell broke lose when the county wanted to straighten out that road. We still have the narrow sharp corner and the old cemetery. That uprising was about 1957 or so. Kit

To read about an interesting medical project that involved locating unmarked graves with radar, see: http://www.spanishflu.utoronto.ca/

Deliberation, Final Arguments, Decision Court convenes 9 a.m. Oct 15 1998 #4, Everett, WA Carroll in Snohomish. & & & 30 & & & ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Radar mapping is using Ground Penetratin Radar. I'm sure it's very expensive. First you have to find a company that is competent to use it but unfortunately before you do anything like this you need permission of the land owner. Do you think Snohomish would grant anyone permission to find bodies in the cemetery when they have been lying for years that no bodies are there? A lot could have been done and a lot still can be done but when you are dealing with the criminals in Snohomish you might as well forget it. I think the cemetery is lost and will eventually be destroyed by the city of Snohomish and there is not much we can do about it. The people living in Snohomish evidently want to destroy the cemetery. They have done nothing to help save it. Maybe they just want to sell antiques to the tourists and pretend the cemetery isn't there.

In a message dated 10/13/98 5:09:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time, armbrust@fidalgo.net writes: << Cyndi, You are a diplomat and wonderful to have as list owner. God Bless. Earl Armbrust >> ========== I agree! My only regret is that when I saw a dozen or so messages from poor Robert, I deleted them all without reading any. Now I'm really curious as to what the original message said that started all this. Oh well.... Guess I'm just too fast with that delete key. HOLTON-L List Owner The Rootbound Researcher * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ^ ^ Kitty (CURTIS) Martin Kent, Washington - - k9504m@aol.com Researching: CURTIS, GATES, HENSLEY, HOL(E)TON, JAMES; ZIEGLER, SWIFT, POLK, GREGORY, GRACE (etc.) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Woods/8946/index.htm