Greetings, I went to the nearest office of the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, which happened to be Cincinnati, Ohio. I gave them what information I had for my grandfather, that was in August 2004. They sent me a letter on April11, 2005, enclosed were copies of all his Naturalization papers, including a index card from the Dept. of labor that his port of entry information could not be verified (stowaway). With this information in hand I went to the county clerk's office and found much better copies. The Declaration of Intention and the Petition for Naturalization has a wealth of information. After two and a half years of research, including a 3 week trip to Austria, I can recommend that this is what to seek out first. Contact information: U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services U.S. Dept. of Homeland Security 2nd Floor, FOIA Unit 111Mass. Avenue, NW Washington, DC 20529 PHONE: 202-272-8273 FAX: 202-272-8331 Although it took awhile it was well worth the wait. And the information they sent was complete. REMEMBER, the more information you can provide the better. Thanx, Bob -----Original Message----- From: prussia-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prussia-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Pat or Roger Miller Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 7:38 PM To: prussia-roots Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] finding the right church recordlocationandother questions LGO, Yes, from the ships logs all I can tell is that they were there and that it is the right family unit of names and ages per our USA records. On the Naturalization Certificate - all I have is a copy from microfilm that I found at the Winona Historical Society - no signature, except the recording clerk and all filled in portions are in his same hand. It is only 1 page. When you say, "...it might shed some light on whether you have a copy that's an abstract or not.", what do you mean by an abstract? You give me hope that I may yet find documentation with a signature or a mark. The document I have is not a very good print (as microfiche prints seldom are) In the upper left had corner under the border design are 4 words in small type I cannot make out the first, but the rest says 'Certificate of Naturalization' Then in arched type across the entire certificate it reads: "United States of America". Beneath that is a seal that didn't print well, but what I see looks similar to a presidential seal today (I'm sure it is something else, but that I say it just to describe style) It is then followed by "State of Minnesota" across the entire document width and the next line is County of Winona. The we get into the body of the document. I hope this description helps determine what this document is. I can scan it and send you a copy if you're interested in looking it over closely. Thanks for the clues. In my youth I took an interest test to see what kind of work I was suited for and three possibilities came up: editor, photographer and detective. I ended up in derivatives of the first two (in film and video) yet this genealogical pursuit seems to be talking to the 'detective' in me. Regards, Roger Miller > [Original Message] > From: LGO <le_geefted_one@ix.netcom.com> > To: <patroger.miller@earthlink.net>; <prussia-roots@rootsweb.com> > Date: 2/26/2007 12:18:42 AM > Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] finding the right church record locationandother questions > > Thanks for the note, Roger. > > Be careful with what you use as proof - Ship's logs are only proof being on the ship at that specific time and where departed from as well as where their destination was, nothing else. Likewise, census are not proof of anything other than residence on that specific date. I'm glad to hear you're using the other items as clues. You seem to have invested a lot of time so far and I'd hate to see your pedigree go astray on something like gedcoms. Common sense plays such a big part in genealogy and you seem to have your share. Kudos! > > Without looking at the naturalization cetificate you have, I'm thinking you don't have a copy of the original one. Sounds like some type of abstract. I've never seen a naturalization certificate from anywhere that doesn't have a place for the subject's signature. Just so you know, sometimes those documents are more than one page and the place for signature might be on that second page. Is what you have only one page? You might try and find it in LDS microfilms just to be certain you have the complete document. Did the witnesses sign it, or is it the same handrwriting for both names? Minscule clues, I agree, but it might shed some light on whether you have a copy that's an abstract or not. Always question everything! > > Continue the good work, Roger. I suggest you get the LDS Research Guide for Germany from their web site. It's free to download and chock full of information about German records types. After all, if you don't know what record type holds the answers you want, how will you ever find it? > > Good luck, > > LGO > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Pat or Roger Miller <patroger.miller@earthlink.net> > >Sent: Feb 25, 2007 7:22 PM > >To: prussia-roots <prussia-roots@rootsweb.com> > >Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] finding the right church record location andother questions > > > >LGO, > > > >Thank you for pointing me toward Meyer's Orts. I hope you aren't confused > >by my posting. In no way do I consider GEDCOM files proof. They are > >merely pointers for clues. That is why I listed the hard items I had first > >(i.e. the Ship's log, the various census, the naturalization certificate, > >the tombstone) as well as the assumptions I have made ('my' Jarischau > >chosen relative to Lissewken) > > > >There is no place on the Naturalization certificate for either a signature > >or a mark. The Certificate of Naturalization was administered in the State > >of Minnesota, county of Winona - not New York. I should have mentioned > >that, I'm sorry. There is no reference on his Naturalization certificate > >of any filings of intent either. Frankly, it's more of a 'fill in the > >blanks' form that noted that Frederick 'personally appeared before' The > >Honorable Lloyd Barber and goes on to list the district court, an act date > >april 14, 1802 that allows naturalization. It is witnessed by a Frederick > >Lambrzska and Jacob Runkels. It also has the line filled in that he has > >renounced his allegiance and fidelity to the 'reigning Sovereign of the > >Kingdom of Prussia' All of the blanks are filled in with the same > >handwriting which matches the signature of the court clerk. > > > >I will be going to an LDS library in the near future so I can view films. > >I'm just trying to get to the right film numbers. I appreciate your input > >and hope that others may chime in as well. > > > >Regards, > >Roger Miller ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/703 - Release Date: 2/26/2007 2:56 PM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/703 - Release Date: 2/26/2007 2:56 PM

Bob, Thanks so much for the information. I'm sure it will be a big help. Kay List RuckleGreetings, --------------------------------- Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.