Karen, Thank you for the thought of looking at Catholic records for my Lutherans. It's worth a shot. There are so few records (and not for the right years) on the Pogutken films. I had planned to look for surnames for clues (the records appear to be 25 years after my ggGrandfather departed). Why do you think Pogutken is the better choice for the records? (Over Schoeneck) As far as the Declaration of Intent, I'm afraid I was following some innacurate advice that said I was to look for the DOI at the point of entrance into the country. Now I will go to find it here in Minnesota. (I don't think my ancester ever stopped in Wisconsin - it was merely mentioned on the ship's log). The only real reference to Wisconsin other that that was that one of my ancester's descendants settled in Alma - not far from Winona County in Minnesota. I won't discount Wisconsin though - it's just not going to be a primary search location. If I am to understand the DOI - where would it have been filed? Am I correct to look through county records? I can trace Friedrich in Minnesota to 1860 in Winona County - so I have a gap from 1856 (arrival at Castle Garndes) to and 1860 census where I do not know where he and his family were. Regarding Friedrich and Euphosine's apparent lack of siblings - yes, that is GEDCOM only and therefore unsubstantiated. Hopefully I find something in LDS microfilms in the one Pogutken record that is cataloged. Thank you for your insights Roger Miller ----- Original Message ----- From: To: patroger.miller@earthlink.net Sent: 2/25/2007 9:58:39 PM Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] finding the right church record location and other questi... Hello Roger, For Evangelical records of Jarischau and for Lissewken, look at those of Pogutken, Kreis Berent. Pogutken was in the Evangelical Diocese of Preussen-Stargard. If LDS has records for Pogutken, start looking there for your families. Evangelical records for Lissewken should also be found at Pogutken. Even if the years are not specific to your family, it might be worth the effort to look at these records anyway, just to see if the family surnames appear there. Sometimes one can get extra clues that way. That said, I would also look at Catholic records for Pogutken as well. Sometimes there was a "crossover" from one church to the other for the recording of an event. If a minister (Lutheran) was away for a time from his church for some reason and a baptism was necessary, a family may have gone to a priest (Catholic) and asked him to perform the baptism. Sounds pretty far fetched, I know, but this has been found in the records on many occasions. Also, that a Catholic person was entered in a Lutheran register! So, be creative, if the records exist. I'm not sure why you'd look at New York for the naturalization record. You mention one dated March, 1868 and I presume you mean this was his "final certificate?" Does it say on this document that naturalization took place in New York? I'm a bit confused about this, as you said their destination was Wisconsin on the passenger list. Usually, if one had a destination in mind, he headed directly to the destination. One didn't usually make a Declaration of Intention until one was settled in a place. Perhaps I have misunderstood your comment. Did they first settle in New York? If so, I believe the DoI should have been taken out in the New York county where they lived at the time. Sorry, I've not worked much with New York records so am weak on this topic, but if they actually did live there for a while, I'd look at the various district records for the county in which they lived. Or, if in a large city like New York, check the various district records for the city. LD! S may have microfilmed naturalization records for New York, so check there first. The Declaration of Intention was not a uniform document in those early days, but most give when and where a person was born and/or lived, on which ship he came to the U.S. and the arrival port, etc. Again, I'm not familiar enough with New York records to know what all you'll find there, but if they lived there first, it would be worth your effort to track down the DoI in the NY county records. Perhaps you can learn more about naturalization records on the ROOTSWEB listing for New York. That said, did you find this family in the Wisconsin census records? That should give you an idea of when they arrived in Wisconsin. Perhaps the ancestor was naturalized there? Also, follow up with the Minnesota (Winona County) records, including the State Census, as they too can tell approximately when the family arrived in that state. I never trust those GEDCOM listings, but you should be able to establish the names of the parents from the birth records of the children. If nothing else, also look into the Pogutken records for "Christian and Elizabeth M�ller" etc. and see what you can find there. You don't say where you "see no record of siblings for Friedrich or Euphrosine." Do you mean you don't see them in any of the GEDCOM's you mentioned? Or, do you mean you have already looked at the Pogutken records and don't find them there? Yes, I agree there generally were many children in a family and the reason could be for those you state, as well as others. Keep in mind, in those early years children often didn't live very long and many did not even reach the age of five. Perhaps some were born but never reached adulthood due to genetics, local epidemics, etc.? Best to check for the family surnames in the death records for Pogutken (if they exist) to learn if there were any children (siblings) who died very young. Just a thought.... Don't hesitate to write back if you have questions on what I've written. The red flag to me was that you want to look for naturalization in New York, so had to ask about that. My guess would be to look at the county records in Wisconsin if that is where they settled after coming to America, unless you know for sure he was naturalized in New York. If Wisconsin was their "destination," it's possible that friends, family or neighbors were already living in Wisconsin and awaiting their arrival. Karen B. Whitmer AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

For Minnesota you can find Naturalization records on film at the MN History Center in St. Paul: http://www.mnhs.org/index.htm You can also search the index and order copies online at the Iron Range Research Center: http://www.ironrangeresearchcenter.org/ Don't forget to check the church records here in the U.S. I've sometimes gotten some of my best info out of old church books. Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat or Roger Miller" <patroger.miller@earthlink.net> To: "prussia-roots" <prussia-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 6:21 PM Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] finding the right church record location andother questi... > Karen, > > Thank you for the thought of looking at Catholic records for my Lutherans. > It's worth a shot. There are so few records (and not for the right > years) on the Pogutken films. I had planned to look for surnames for > clues (the records appear to be 25 years after my ggGrandfather departed). > Why do you think Pogutken is the better choice for the records? (Over > Schoeneck) > > As far as the Declaration of Intent, I'm afraid I was following some > innacurate advice that said I was to look for the DOI at the point of > entrance into the country. Now I will go to find it here in Minnesota. > (I don't think my ancester ever stopped in Wisconsin - it was merely > mentioned on the ship's log). The only real reference to Wisconsin other > that that was that one of my ancester's descendants settled in Alma - not > far from Winona County in Minnesota. I won't discount Wisconsin though - > it's just not going to be a primary search location. If I am to > understand the DOI - where would it have been filed? Am I correct to look > through county records? I can trace Friedrich in Minnesota to 1860 in > Winona County - so I have a gap from 1856 (arrival at Castle Garndes) to > and 1860 census where I do not know where he and his family were. > > Regarding Friedrich and Euphosine's apparent lack of siblings - yes, that > is GEDCOM only and therefore unsubstantiated. Hopefully I find something > in LDS microfilms in the one Pogutken record that is cataloged. > > Thank you for your insights > > Roger Miller