Roger, I won't say that information from gedcoms files and on-line sources (including LDS records) is worthless, but it's not far from it in my opinion. Bad research has been around a long time and is not a result of the Internet. The Internet only allows it to grow faster, grow exponentially. Too many researchers do not understand what is considered "proof" in genealogy. That's nothing new, but today they can amass information so much faster than before and that quickly mudddies the family tree picture which is posted on-line and shared with others. They scour cyberspace for gedcoms and "connections" to other family and don't take the time to verify any of the information they find from others. Old mistakes are perpetuated, while new ones are created. Don't accept anything from gedcom files that doesn't have sources, and ALWAYS check the sources when you do see them. Even diligent reserachers can make mistakes (Lord knows I've had my share). Lack of sources speaks volumes about how the data was found and researchers can make their own decisions as to its credibility simply by that. While the genealogy community is built on sharing, you have to fend for yourself if you want accuracy. Insofar as what is found in LDS records, researchers have to understand that LDS records come from several sources and they can't always "hang their hat" on them. Any records that come from the LDS Ancestral File - you couldn't pay me to take the information. Records from the IGI have a higher rate of accuracy, but still look at them with some skepticism. I volunteered at an LDS FHC for 10 years and learned how the different databases were created and what the differences are between them. Verify, verify, verify information you find in it in other records. At least for a couple of more years, that cannot be done on-line. If all of the above is practiced, which is going to be the best use of a researcher's time; Trying to verify information from others that will ultimately lead to a wrong ancestor, or finding the proof themselves? To get to one of your original questions, you can find out where the church records for Jarischau were kept by using "Meyer's Orts," one of the first steps in trying to cross the pond into German records. I don't know if Dieter on this list has access to a copy, but his recent reply to another posting makes me think he does <grin>. "Meyer's Orts" can be found on microfiche/film at any LDS Family History Center. There are well over 3,000 world wide and you can check for the one closest to you at the LDS web site. In reading your posting further, I caution you to be extra carefull in searching for "Frederick Miller" and "Friedrich Mueller" as they were both such common names in history. It's interesting to note that you have his 1868 U.S. Naturalization, and yet all the census state he could not read or write. Did he sign his naturalization papers with his "mark?" Finding his declaration of intent from New York is not impossible as it might sound. Didn't his naturalization papers that you have list the date and court where he filed his first papers? If not, there is an index to naturalizations in all courts in NYC that LDS has on microfilm and can be rented at your nearest LDS FHC. Of course, LDS also has virtually all of the records also on microfilm. While I am always suggesting researchers consult LDS microfilms, it's not because I'm a member of the church or anything like that. I'm not. It's because I believe in finding the easiest (and most economical) route to the "proof" I need to prove my ancestors. Until the next couple of years, that has always been using LDS microfilms. LDS has begun digitizing all of their over 2 MILLION reels of microfilm and will be slowly placing them on-line at their web site. THEN, researchers can find the majority of proofs they need on-line. Good luck, LGO -----Original Message----- >From: Pat or Roger Miller <patroger.miller@earthlink.net> >Sent: Feb 25, 2007 2:11 PM >To: prussia-roots <prussia-roots@rootsweb.com> >Subject: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] finding the right church record location and other questions > >Dear List, > >This is a long post, but I feel I need to lay groundwork before asking my questions. > >I have narrowed down my search for my ggGrandfather Friedrich Müller of Jarischau, Kreis Berent, West Prussia. My question is: Where were the Evangelische church records for the Jarischau area recorded? The main possibilities are Pogutken or Schöneck - both of Kreis Berent. I have been at the LDS website and see that there are some records for each. > >I am aware that there is more than one Jarischau (the other near Schleisen). However, research has found that his wife Euphrosine Brandstaedter came from Lissewken (Lißewken) about 3 km from the Jarischau in Kreis Berent. They were married at least 9 - 10 years prior to coming to America, so my thinking is that they must have lived near one another to have met. > >Here are the key dates and locations I can verify. I am using the spellings as they were noted on the various records, so you will see a number of variations. Friedrich, Euphrosine and children Ludwig, Carl, Julius and Hermann came over on the Ship Shakespeare arriving at Castle Garden, New York on August 20, 1856 from Bremen. I have a copy of the ships log and see their names and ages and that they were heading to Wisconsin. Eventually they settled in Winona, Minnesota - right across the river from Wisconsin. I have been to their grave in Winona and took down the following dates: > >Friedrich Mueller born 30 Mai, 1820 (other records say June 1, 1820) died 22 Sept, 1896 >-Various GEDCOM records list Friedrich's parents as Christian and Elisabeth with no other dates or locations - Dead end >Efrosine Mueller born 21 Dec, 1821 (LDS has her born 14 Oct, 1821 in Lissewken) so December may be the christening date) died 21 Apr, 1899 >-The LDS record has her name as Euphrosina Brandstaedter >-The LDS record lists her parents as Gottleib Georg Brandstaedter and Chonstansia Pestke > >The cemetary did not have a record of the church involved in the interment.s I am going back to Winona this spring to see if I can make a connection at the various Lutheran churches there and at the courthouse for land records. > >In the various census that I have, I see Friedrich Müller become Fredrick Miller - no middle initial or name is ever seen except for 1870 where he is listed as Fred K. Miller >-I have a copy of his naturalization March 30, 1868 he became Frederick Miller, US citizen. >Euphrosine has also been spelled as Efrosine and Aprozina. I'm sure these are all best attempts by census takers to deal with how they heard the names. It is always noted that Friedrich and Euphrosine do not read or write. > >My questions are many, of course, but let's begin with: >-Which church district or parish would have presided over Jarishau? >-I have contacted one person who published a GEDCOM listing Friedrich's parents as Christian and Elisabeth, but she didn't have any record of where the names came from - any ideas form this list? >-How do I find his Declaration of Intent in New York? What information might that yield? >-The biggest mystery is that I see no record of siblings for Friedrich or Euphrosine. They were both from farm families where extra children make the work easier. There are three possibilities.1) Both were only children - not seemingly likely. 2) Siblings were left behind. 3) Siblings also emigrated, but were never noted or tracked. I would love to make a connection across the Atlantic to pursue these three possibilities. > >I feel I am very close to connecting my USA roots to the other side of the Atlantic and any help would be appreciated. > >Family names: Müller, Mueller, Miller, Brandstätder, Brandstetter, Brandstaedter, Lemke, Pestke, Kruse, Schröder, Schmidt, Schlarmann, Horstman >Family locations USA: Winona, Miltona, Leaf Valley, Alexandria in Minnesota. Alma, Wisconsin. >Family locations Prussia dna Germany: Jarischau and Lissewken in Kreis Berent, West Prussia, Thorst, Holdorf and Lohne in Germany > >Roger Miller >PS: This is a terrific list. I follow it closely and it has helped me many times in the past by seeing how others have had questions answered.