Since I started this discussion, I must tell you that the librarians at the FHL are aware that people, myself included, are copying pages to cd's and flash drives. In fact, photo copying a page at the FHL is fine with everyone also. I know they charge for the paper and ink/toner, but they do not charge for the pages. If you are copying a whole microfilm, that is a different story and should probably be in violation of copyright laws. You are allowed to copy some pages from books at a library as long as you are not selling the copies or copying the whole book. My local library has a similar setup to what is available at the FHL and they allow some copying for family research purposes. No copying is allowed for the purpose of selling what you are copying. Whether you copy something to a cd or flash drive where there is not extra cost or you are paying for a paper copy, I see no difference as long as you are not copying a whole book or microfilm and not selling what you have copied. I have visited a lot of libraries in at least 9 of the United States that allow you to make copies of a few pages for a nominal fee to cover the costs of copying. You are just not allowed to copy a whole book or film. As to whether there is a copyright, on the old records there is probably not a valid copyright, but, on the microfilm of the record, the LDS may very well have a copyright issue. But, the LDS is doing this microfilming so that records are not lost and I have been told that they are not concerned about minimal copying. As to online, I am sure that there will be a disclaimer regarding what is copyrighted or not. What about all the records on Ancestry.com? They may hold a copyright but they also allow you to print pages of the census. Bobbie > I'm interested in this copyright business as it pertains to the films loaned from the FHL to the > FHC.? Does the FHL actually hold a copyright to a film of old records?? It seems to me that > because they are old records, there would be no copyright.? Is that true or not?? And, if the > Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is putting everything online, would there still be a > consideration about copyrights?? If someone is copying and transcribing the records on a film > which will be made available in its entirety soon, isn't that what the FHC would like? > > Just wondering.... > > Nancy M. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Armstrong <[email protected]> > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Sent: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 9:03 pm > Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] film reels and the info > > > > Basically, Copyright Law allows you to copy about 10% as "fair usage", when it's > being used to support your research, or to review something. Copying anything > in its entirety that is still subject to copyright is definitely out. > > Copyright Law varies from country to country, although there has been efforts to > harmonise it internationally. The Law that applies is the Law of the country > where the Copyright is held, not where you happen to be when you do your > copying. > > Finally, if you breach copyright, your are stealing another person's income. In > family history research terms, this can have a severe impact on the viability of > projects to make archival records more readily available for us to use in our > research. You can kill the goose that lays the golden egg! > > One Family History Society in England that undertaken a great of transcription > and publishing of old records in booklets and on microfiche, and relied on the > income generated from the sales, reported a massive 30% to 40% drop in their > revenue as a result of copyright breaches with the advent of the internet and > mailing lists. > > David Armstrong > Maylands, > Western Australia > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bobbie > To: [email protected] ; [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 6:42 AM > Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] film reels and the info > > > I just joined this group so I may have missed what led to this post. My local > Family History Library and my County > Library both have computers attached to a microfilm machine. You may save > pages to a cd, flash drive, etc. I am > assuming that it would not be proper (legal?) to copy the whole film, but if > you only copy pages that have your > ancestors on them, it should be okay in my opinion. There is no charge for > doing this. > > I do not know where you are as far as what films you are viewing, but I hope > this helps you in some way. > > Bobbie > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > sweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of > the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the > word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

As a volunteer (and non-church member) librarian at my local LDS family history library, I can inform you that from time to time, Salt Lake sends around a reminder that cameras are not allowed in their libraries. This is usually because a new court case has arisen. As regards copyright, this varies from country to country. In America, I'm aware that it's open slather on old records after they been released to the public by the authorities. However, in other countries Copyright is retained by the authorities. I'm not in a position to comment on the German attitude to copyright of their old records. However, in Britain, the Crown or the Church still owns the copyright and if you want to publish a transcription (except a small exert), you need to obtain approval (which is not difficult to do). The LDS negotiate with the copyright holders of the original records to do what they do. Some records that they microfilm cannot be circulated to libraries outside of Salt Lake because of agreements they've reached with the copyright holders. By abusing the 'fair usage' rule in the LDS libraries, you jeopardise the access of the LDS to future record collections which would be to the detriment of us all. In a public library, some of the photocopying costs will be passed on as royalties to the copyright holder, in just the same way as a radio station pays royalties to broadcast music. As I said in my previous email, breach of copyright is stealing someone else's income. Also, Copyright automatically exists from the moment of creation. There doesn't have to be a statement claiming it. If you have any doubts about LDS library rules, email SLC for clarification. David Armstrong Maylands, Western Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Bobbie To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] film reels and the info Since I started this discussion, I must tell you that the librarians at the FHL are aware that people, myself included, are copying pages to cd's and flash drives. In fact, photo copying a page at the FHL is fine with everyone also. I know they charge for the paper and ink/toner, but they do not charge for the pages. If you are copying a whole microfilm, that is a different story and should probably be in violation of copyright laws. You are allowed to copy some pages from books at a library as long as you are not selling the copies or copying the whole book. My local library has a similar setup to what is available at the FHL and they allow some copying for family research purposes. No copying is allowed for the purpose of selling what you are copying. Whether you copy something to a cd or flash drive where there is not extra cost or you are paying for a paper copy, I see no difference as long as you are not copying a whole book or microfilm and not selling what you have copied. I have visited a lot of libraries in at least 9 of the United States that allow you to make copies of a few pages for a nominal fee to cover the costs of copying. You are just not allowed to copy a whole book or film. As to whether there is a copyright, on the old records there is probably not a valid copyright, but, on the microfilm of the record, the LDS may very well have a copyright issue. But, the LDS is doing this microfilming so that records are not lost and I have been told that they are not concerned about minimal copying. As to online, I am sure that there will be a disclaimer regarding what is copyrighted or not. What about all the records on Ancestry.com? They may hold a copyright but they also allow you to print pages of the census. Bobbie