My family has tried to trace my g grandfather back to Prussia but have not had any success.  Part of the issue is all we have is Prussia which is on the few records we have as place of birth.  Realize that is like saying New England!       We have tried passenger lists coming into Baltimore, approx. 1850 to 1860.  We use this time-line because, he married my g grandmother 1860 to 1864 in either Cecil County or Baltimore County, MD.  MD civil records did not start until 1898.  About 1869 he moved his family to Crestline Crawford Count y OH.  My g grandmother's family also moved with them.  She was American born 1845 but her father was from Hesse Darmstadt per 1880 census & her mother from Bayonne.  Again huge areas of Germany to try to find the "Needle in a haystack".  His name John Ludwig Kiel/Kile/Kyle.       I noticed on the list that there are Civil Records available for some areas in the late 18th century.  Would there be a list/index for the various areas of Prussia which state the start for their civil records??  Even though there may be numerous men with the same given & surname, it might give us a more defined area to search.       It appears that my paternal g grandfather's surname LIBENS (various spelling) is often in what is now Belgium.  However, I have been told that the part of Prussia which is now Belgium was changed D/T Napoleon's defeat.  I have a b. year for him of 1836 which would have been long after the defeat.  Therefore, find it strange that Prussia continued to be used as his place of birth if he was actually born in that part which changed.  Or would using it be better define that part???       Would anyone on the list have any ideas?       My g grandfather was John LIBENS b. 1836 Prussia, expired 1879 Crestline Crawford County OH.  On the 1870 census the surname was spelled LABENS and on other census LIBBENS, LIBBONS.       Once the families settled in OH, we have numerous records.  It is MD back to Prussia which is our brick wall.  In MD both families lived in Rising Sun, Cecil County MD; near Elkton.  They were of the Lutheran faith. Mary Ellen Chambers Lakewood, OH

Hi Mary Ellen A couple of items that might provide food for thought. I would guess he could have been from either East or West Prussia on the Baltic because of his Lutheran faith. If he were from near Belgium it would be more likely that he was Roman Catholic rather then Lutheran (Evangelish). Also you might consider that Leibens can be a Lithuanian name (again Baltic region ... former East Prussia. But all this is purely speculative and impossible to prove without a town name. Pax Vobiscum, ...mark (Mark Rabideau) ManyRoads Family Genealogist (Rabideau-Henss Family) *Visit us at: http://many-roads.com <http://many-roads.com/> * *Snail mail at: *711 Nob Hill Trail - Franktown,CO USA - 80116-8717 *phone:*+1.303.660.9400 *fax:*+1.303.660.9217 *member:*Association of Professional Genealogists & National Genealogical Society _____________________________________________________________________ *"It's always useful to know where a friend-and-relation is, whether you want him or whether you don't."* Rabbit, Pooh's Little Instruction Book (Winnie the Pooh) On 09/29/2011 09:12 AM, Mary Ellen Chambers wrote: > My family has tried to trace my g grandfather back to Prussia but have not > had any success. Part of the issue is all we have is Prussia which is on the > few records we have as place of birth. Realize that is like saying New England! > We have tried passenger lists coming into Baltimore, approx. 1850 to > 1860. We use this time-line because, he married my g grandmother 1860 to 1864 > in either Cecil County or Baltimore County, MD. MD civil records did not start > until 1898. About 1869 he moved his family to Crestline Crawford Count y OH. > My g grandmother's family also moved with them. She was American born 1845 but > her father was from Hesse Darmstadt per 1880 census& her mother from Bayonne. > Again huge areas of Germany to try to find the "Needle in a haystack". His name > John Ludwig Kiel/Kile/Kyle. > I noticed on the list that there are Civil Records available for some > areas in the late 18th century. Would there be a list/index for the various > areas of Prussia which state the start for their civil records?? Even though > there may be numerous men with the same given& surname, it might give us a more > defined area to search. > It appears that my paternal g grandfather's surname LIBENS (various > spelling) is often in what is now Belgium. However, I have been told that the > part of Prussia which is now Belgium was changed D/T Napoleon's defeat. I have > a b. year for him of 1836 which would have been long after the defeat. > Therefore, find it strange that Prussia continued to be used as his place of > birth if he was actually born in that part which changed. Or would using it be > better define that part??? > Would anyone on the list have any ideas? > My g grandfather was John LIBENS b. 1836 Prussia, expired 1879 Crestline > Crawford County OH. On the 1870 census the surname was spelled LABENS and on > other census LIBBENS, LIBBONS. > Once the families settled in OH, we have numerous records. It is MD back > to Prussia which is our brick wall. In MD both families lived in Rising Sun, > Cecil County MD; near Elkton. They were of the Lutheran faith. > > Mary Ellen Chambers > Lakewood, OH > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Mary, Belgium was never part of Prussia. France occupated at the end of the 18th century the Rhineland (Rheinland) and the Palatine (Pfalz). Then Napoleon imported the civil registers in this occupated region, so these registers begin 1792. After Napoleons defeat (1815) Prussia get the Rhineland and parts of the Palatine. The Prussian government continued the civil registers. In all other parts of Prussia they begin in 1874 and in the rest of Germany in 1876. The birth place "Prussia" is really not very specific so it's very hard to find the region where your ancestor came from. Sincerely, Stefan www.rueckling.de ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Ellen Chambers" <maryln61@yahoo.com> To: <PRUSSIA-ROOTS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 5:12 PM Subject: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] Suggestions re: On Line Prussia Ancestor Research My family has tried to trace my g grandfather back to Prussia but have not had any success. Part of the issue is all we have is Prussia which is on the few records we have as place of birth. Realize that is like saying New England! We have tried passenger lists coming into Baltimore, approx. 1850 to 1860. We use this time-line because, he married my g grandmother 1860 to 1864 in either Cecil County or Baltimore County, MD. MD civil records did not start until 1898. About 1869 he moved his family to Crestline Crawford Count y OH. My g grandmother's family also moved with them. She was American born 1845 but her father was from Hesse Darmstadt per 1880 census & her mother from Bayonne. Again huge areas of Germany to try to find the "Needle in a haystack". His name John Ludwig Kiel/Kile/Kyle. I noticed on the list that there are Civil Records available for some areas in the late 18th century. Would there be a list/index for the various areas of Prussia which state the start for their civil records?? Even though there may be numerous men with the same given & surname, it might give us a more defined area to search. It appears that my paternal g grandfather's surname LIBENS (various spelling) is often in what is now Belgium. However, I have been told that the part of Prussia which is now Belgium was changed D/T Napoleon's defeat. I have a b. year for him of 1836 which would have been long after the defeat. Therefore, find it strange that Prussia continued to be used as his place of birth if he was actually born in that part which changed. Or would using it be better define that part??? Would anyone on the list have any ideas? My g grandfather was John LIBENS b. 1836 Prussia, expired 1879 Crestline Crawford County OH. On the 1870 census the surname was spelled LABENS and on other census LIBBENS, LIBBONS. Once the families settled in OH, we have numerous records. It is MD back to Prussia which is our brick wall. In MD both families lived in Rising Sun, Cecil County MD; near Elkton. They were of the Lutheran faith. Mary Ellen Chambers Lakewood, OH ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have the same problem with my gr grandfather Charles Herzog, b. 1862 Silesia. His 1892 naturalization record showed his country of allegiance was Germany, but I have no village name. He died in 1917. Plenty of info on his years in Chicago, but no idea where or how to look for him in Silesia. I'm also interested in any ideas on how to approach this. Judy On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 7:12 AM, Mary Ellen Chambers <maryln61@yahoo.com>wrote: > My family has tried to trace my g grandfather back to Prussia but > have not > had any success. Part of the issue is all we have is Prussia which is on > the > few records we have as place of birth. Realize that is like saying New > England! > We have tried passenger lists coming into Baltimore, approx. 1850 to > 1860. We use this time-line because, he married my g grandmother 1860 to > 1864 > in either Cecil County or Baltimore County, MD. MD civil records did not > start > until 1898. About 1869 he moved his family to Crestline Crawford Count y > OH. > My g grandmother's family also moved with them. She was American born 1845 > but > her father was from Hesse Darmstadt per 1880 census & her mother from > Bayonne. > Again huge areas of Germany to try to find the "Needle in a haystack". His > name > John Ludwig Kiel/Kile/Kyle. > I noticed on the list that there are Civil Records available for some > areas in the late 18th century. Would there be a list/index for the > various > areas of Prussia which state the start for their civil records?? Even > though > there may be numerous men with the same given & surname, it might give us a > more > defined area to search. > It appears that my paternal g grandfather's surname LIBENS (various > spelling) is often in what is now Belgium. However, I have been told that > the > part of Prussia which is now Belgium was changed D/T Napoleon's defeat. I > have > a b. year for him of 1836 which would have been long after the defeat. > Therefore, find it strange that Prussia continued to be used as his place > of > birth if he was actually born in that part which changed. Or would using > it be > better define that part??? > Would anyone on the list have any ideas? > My g grandfather was John LIBENS b. 1836 Prussia, expired 1879 > Crestline > Crawford County OH. On the 1870 census the surname was spelled LABENS and > on > other census LIBBENS, LIBBONS. > Once the families settled in OH, we have numerous records. It is MD > back > to Prussia which is our brick wall. In MD both families lived in Rising > Sun, > Cecil County MD; near Elkton. They were of the Lutheran faith. > > Mary Ellen Chambers > Lakewood, OH > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Judy, did you already checked the Hamburger Passenger Lists ? I have found a person Carl Herzog, born about 1866 in Oberpillau, Schlesien [correct: Ober Peilau, Silesia, church registers filmed by the LDS] who emmigrated to America in 1890. I don't know if a person who immigrated in 1890 could be naturalized 2 years later ? Stefan. ----- Original Message ----- From: "judy petersen" <skigranny@gmail.com> To: <prussia-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 12:41 AM Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] Suggestions re: On Line Prussia AncestorResearch >I have the same problem with my gr grandfather Charles Herzog, b. 1862 > Silesia. His 1892 naturalization record showed his country of allegiance > was Germany, but I have no village name. He died in 1917. Plenty of info > on his years in Chicago, but no idea where or how to look for him in > Silesia. I'm also interested in any ideas on how to approach this. > Judy > > On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 7:12 AM, Mary Ellen Chambers > <maryln61@yahoo.com>wrote: > >> My family has tried to trace my g grandfather back to Prussia but >> have not >> had any success. Part of the issue is all we have is Prussia which is on >> the >> few records we have as place of birth. Realize that is like saying New >> England! >> We have tried passenger lists coming into Baltimore, approx. 1850 >> to >> 1860. We use this time-line because, he married my g grandmother 1860 to >> 1864 >> in either Cecil County or Baltimore County, MD. MD civil records did not >> start >> until 1898. About 1869 he moved his family to Crestline Crawford Count y >> OH. >> My g grandmother's family also moved with them. She was American born >> 1845 >> but >> her father was from Hesse Darmstadt per 1880 census & her mother from >> Bayonne. >> Again huge areas of Germany to try to find the "Needle in a haystack". >> His >> name >> John Ludwig Kiel/Kile/Kyle. >> I noticed on the list that there are Civil Records available for >> some >> areas in the late 18th century. Would there be a list/index for the >> various >> areas of Prussia which state the start for their civil records?? Even >> though >> there may be numerous men with the same given & surname, it might give us >> a >> more >> defined area to search. >> It appears that my paternal g grandfather's surname LIBENS (various >> spelling) is often in what is now Belgium. However, I have been told >> that >> the >> part of Prussia which is now Belgium was changed D/T Napoleon's defeat. >> I >> have >> a b. year for him of 1836 which would have been long after the defeat. >> Therefore, find it strange that Prussia continued to be used as his place >> of >> birth if he was actually born in that part which changed. Or would using >> it be >> better define that part??? >> Would anyone on the list have any ideas? >> My g grandfather was John LIBENS b. 1836 Prussia, expired 1879 >> Crestline >> Crawford County OH. On the 1870 census the surname was spelled LABENS >> and >> on >> other census LIBBENS, LIBBONS. >> Once the families settled in OH, we have numerous records. It is >> MD >> back >> to Prussia which is our brick wall. In MD both families lived in Rising >> Sun, >> Cecil County MD; near Elkton. They were of the Lutheran faith. >> >> Mary Ellen Chambers >> Lakewood, OH >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I just saw this message too. I think naturalization took at least 5 years. And, I know that Charles was married in 1886. No, I forgot about the Hamburg passenger lists. I'll try that - thanks for the reminder. I had back surgery last week & not sure my brain is working in high gear yet. Thanks again for the help. Judy 2011/10/1 Stefan Rückling <rueckling@gmx.de> > Judy, did you already checked the Hamburger Passenger Lists ? > > I have found a person Carl Herzog, born about 1866 in Oberpillau, Schlesien > [correct: Ober Peilau, Silesia, church registers filmed by the LDS] who > emmigrated to America in 1890. I don't know if a person who immigrated in > 1890 could be naturalized 2 years later ? > > Stefan. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "judy petersen" <skigranny@gmail.com> > To: <prussia-roots@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 12:41 AM > Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] Suggestions re: On Line Prussia > AncestorResearch > > > >I have the same problem with my gr grandfather Charles Herzog, b. 1862 > > Silesia. His 1892 naturalization record showed his country of allegiance > > was Germany, but I have no village name. He died in 1917. Plenty of > info > > on his years in Chicago, but no idea where or how to look for him in > > Silesia. I'm also interested in any ideas on how to approach this. > > Judy > > > > On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 7:12 AM, Mary Ellen Chambers > > <maryln61@yahoo.com>wrote: > > > >> My family has tried to trace my g grandfather back to Prussia but > >> have not > >> had any success. Part of the issue is all we have is Prussia which is > on > >> the > >> few records we have as place of birth. Realize that is like saying New > >> England! > >> We have tried passenger lists coming into Baltimore, approx. 1850 > >> to > >> 1860. We use this time-line because, he married my g grandmother 1860 > to > >> 1864 > >> in either Cecil County or Baltimore County, MD. MD civil records did > not > >> start > >> until 1898. About 1869 he moved his family to Crestline Crawford Count > y > >> OH. > >> My g grandmother's family also moved with them. She was American born > >> 1845 > >> but > >> her father was from Hesse Darmstadt per 1880 census & her mother from > >> Bayonne. > >> Again huge areas of Germany to try to find the "Needle in a haystack". > >> His > >> name > >> John Ludwig Kiel/Kile/Kyle. > >> I noticed on the list that there are Civil Records available for > >> some > >> areas in the late 18th century. Would there be a list/index for the > >> various > >> areas of Prussia which state the start for their civil records?? Even > >> though > >> there may be numerous men with the same given & surname, it might give > us > >> a > >> more > >> defined area to search. > >> It appears that my paternal g grandfather's surname LIBENS > (various > >> spelling) is often in what is now Belgium. However, I have been told > >> that > >> the > >> part of Prussia which is now Belgium was changed D/T Napoleon's defeat. > >> I > >> have > >> a b. year for him of 1836 which would have been long after the defeat. > >> Therefore, find it strange that Prussia continued to be used as his > place > >> of > >> birth if he was actually born in that part which changed. Or would > using > >> it be > >> better define that part??? > >> Would anyone on the list have any ideas? > >> My g grandfather was John LIBENS b. 1836 Prussia, expired 1879 > >> Crestline > >> Crawford County OH. On the 1870 census the surname was spelled LABENS > >> and > >> on > >> other census LIBBENS, LIBBONS. > >> Once the families settled in OH, we have numerous records. It is > >> MD > >> back > >> to Prussia which is our brick wall. In MD both families lived in Rising > >> Sun, > >> Cecil County MD; near Elkton. They were of the Lutheran faith. > >> > >> Mary Ellen Chambers > >> Lakewood, OH > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >> the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >