The terms "Hochdeutsch" and "Plattdeutsch" are used in Germany, but there is little consistency in what they refer to. They also speak of "Dialekt". Once again there is little agreement as to what a dialect is. German philologists have had difficulty, from what I have read, in classifying the various forms of German. They have studied such things as "vowel shifts" where the same vowel is pronounced in different ways by different people. Variations in the approach to consonants have been studied. For example, in Berlin the consonantal form of "ch" is often pronounced like a hard "k", while in the Rhineland-Palatinate, the Pfalz, it is pronounced like "sh", a softer sound. "Proper" high German has it somewhat like a gentle clearing of the throat. When it comes to the consonantal form "pf" in some parts of Germany the two consonants are pronounced together; in other parts, mainly in the Pfalz, it is pronounced like a labial "p" and the "f" is not heard. They use a little mnemonic to illustrate: "In de Palz geht de Parrer Mit de Peife in de Kersch." Elsewhere it would be said like: "In der Pfalz geht der Pfarrer mit der Pfife in die Kirche." The use of the umlaut form of a word varies from region to region. Remember that the German language, like all languages, is a living, developing thing. In the past, different regions developed under different rulers and ruling classes without much interaction with other parts of the "Holy Roman Empire." If the philologists have difficulty trying to understand the various ways in which the German language is written and spoken, it would be impossible for any of us to settle what they find difficult or impossible. This also was the cause for variant spellings of names, etc. I know how much I like to have things spelled out in black and white, but I have found that this confuses my searching for my ancestors. My maternal grandparents, who came from an area close to Poland, and which is now part of Poland, spoke a "Plattdeutsch" that was strongly influenced by Polish. My father, who came from a German-speaking family from Mecklenburg always had to pay close attention when my maternal grandparents spoke. Yet there is an educated type of "Hochdeutsch" that is used for more formal communication that is basically the same wherever it is found. Just be glad that your life does not depend on speaking with the proper accent as has happened to people in the past. Different parts of Israel in old testament times pronounced a letter two different ways and today that leads to two different letters in the Hebrew language: "sin" and "shin". Language: ain't it wonderful! Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julia Everett" <juliasgenes@hotmail.com> To: <prussia-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 1:18 PM Subject: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] low German vs high German > Listers, > > I'm somewhat confused by these terms: low German vs high German. > > Is this the difference between street American (as we casually speak and > write to each other) or English as the college professors fruitlessly > tried > to get me to remember or are they truly different dialects that would > require a introduction and experience in order for us to speak to each > other? > > Thanks, Julia > > _________________________________________________________________ > Like puzzles? Play free games & earn great prizes. Play Clink now. > http://club.live.com/clink.aspx?icid=clink_hotmailtextlink2 > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.6/865 - Release Date: 6/24/2007 > 8:33 AM > >

Listers, I'm somewhat confused by these terms: low German vs high German. Is this the difference between street American (as we casually speak and write to each other) or English as the college professors fruitlessly tried to get me to remember or are they truly different dialects that would require a introduction and experience in order for us to speak to each other? Thanks, Julia _________________________________________________________________ Like puzzles? Play free games & earn great prizes. Play Clink now. http://club.live.com/clink.aspx?icid=clink_hotmailtextlink2

Westprussian... Regards, Rollo+~~ =============== Subject: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] Danzig > Would Danzig normally been considered Prussian? > > Thanks, > > > John Mansfield > Pennsburg, PA 18073 > Semper Fidelis > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I may be wrong, but I think of our Pennsylvania Deutsch as a dialect rather than "low German" My father's family was from Lebanon County, but the folk in Berks County and those in Lancaster County have some similarities and some differences. They can usually understand each other, but are very careful, for, rumor has it that some very innocent words in one county can offend those in others. That makes me think that they were from different parts of Germany with different dialects. I took PA Duch lessons at one point in my teaching career to better be able to communicate with those coming into the school district speaking no English. It was an interesting experience, for the children just chuckled into their hands when I tried to communicate and answered me in the English that they were quickly learning. I never became good at it, but it brought back memories of my grandparents. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol M. Duff" <duffc@redwing.net> To: <prussia-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] low German vs high German > > Low or Plattdeutsch was often spoken along the coastal area from the > Netherlands to Prussia. It was a lower elevation of German, but I don't > know if that is how it get its name. Carol > >> >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Would Danzig normally been considered Prussian? Thanks, John Mansfield Pennsburg, PA 18073 Semper Fidelis

Hi Julia, I guess that what you call lowgerman means Plattdeutsch ? Platt or Niederdeutsch is a language itself. Not a dialect. (There are different words and not only a different intonation or so). Platt is in no way what Germans call "Gossensprache" or one would in english call slang. There are nevertheless also various dialects in Germany. I hope this will help. For plattdeutsch words you will need help from anyone who lives in Ostfriesland or Nordfriesland. Have in mind that every region has its own Plattdeutsch (East Frisia has another Platt than e.g. Hamburg or North Frisia but they all can understand eachothers words far or less). Greetings from the Northseacoast Agnelika

Hello to everyone and hope someone will be able to help me. I have been searching for the suname Slesdet (Amerianzied). My grandfather said he was from Germany but have not been able to find anything on this name. His name was Charles Sledet born 1864 and enter into the USA in 1888 according to the Census. his mother name was Katherine or Catherine Slesdet. She married a man in Canada and then I was told she left him and married a Charles Roberts in Reed City, Michigan. My grandfather had a sister named Lizzie Slested who lived in Canada and is in the 1906 Census. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. If anyone should have any kind of information please e-mail me at _DOTM867@aol.com_ (mailto:DOTM867@aol.com) and indicated in the subject line Slesdet. ' Thank you, D. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Low or Plattdeutsch was often spoken along the coastal area from the Netherlands to Prussia. It was a lower elevation of German, but I don't know if that is how it get its name. Carol > >

My Grandmother, who spoke Low German, explained to me that Low German was more like slang, instead of proper grammar. Ja was yes and was pronounced Yah. Although, I don't speak either, I believe that yes was pronounced differently in proper (High) German. Something like Yay. Sort of how Americans say yeah, instead of yes and ain't instead of isn't........ Annette ----- Original Message ----- From: Julia Everett To: prussia-roots@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 1:18 PM Subject: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] low German vs high German Listers, I'm somewhat confused by these terms: low German vs high German. Is this the difference between street American (as we casually speak and write to each other) or English as the college professors fruitlessly tried to get me to remember or are they truly different dialects that would require a introduction and experience in order for us to speak to each other? Thanks, Julia _________________________________________________________________ Like puzzles? Play free games & earn great prizes. Play Clink now. http://club.live.com/clink.aspx?icid=clink_hotmailtextlink2 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.6/865 - Release Date: 6/24/2007 8:33 AM

My hat it has three corners, Three corners has my hat. And if it had not three corners, Then it would not be my hat.

That is still sung in my area. (I sing in the German choir, although I don't speak it --- just sing it) If you want all the words, I have them. Jane Brown Fredericksburg, TX

Prussia is a part of Germany, at one time it covered half of Germany. My grandma’s side of the family was from mainly near Hanover. I found out my grandfather’s family was from Saxony, in the Chemnitz, Plauen area, in eastern Germany. Wittenberg is also in Saxony. At present, I’m reading “Germany, a New History” by Hagen Schulze which goes back to the earliest times, it’s supposed to be very good. I’m also reading “The Forgotten Soldier”, an autobiography of a German soldier from Chemnitz who was sent to fight the Russians, it’s a very interesting book. I love history, and enjoy reading autobiographies of typical soldiers on both sides, such as from the Civil War also. We’re all pretty much pawns of where we are born. Susan Here are maps, etc. http://rollintl.com/roll/prussia.htm * Prussia was a former state in north-central Germany. At the height of its power, Prussia occupied more than half of present-day Germany, stretching from The Netherlands and Belgium in the west to Lithuania in the east. * During the eighteenth century, Prussia established its independence from Poland, built up a strong army, and undertook a successful conquest of north-central Europe. * In the nineteenth century, Prussia led the economic and political unification of the German states, establishing itself as the largest and most influential of these states, with Berlin as the capital of the German Empire. * After Germany’s defeat in World War II, Prussia was abolished as a state, and its territory was divided among East Germany, West Germany, the Soviet Union, and Poland. Also, this is from Wikipedia: The Kingdom of Prussia (German <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_language> : Königreich Preußen) was a German <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany> kingdom <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom> from 1701 to 1918 and, from 1871, was the leading state of the German <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Empire> Empire, comprising almost two-thirds of the area of the empire. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Prussia

I will write the notes to the song with their "letter-names." Real musical notation would be to difficult for me. Give me a day or two. Anne ----- Original Message ----- From: <Ruthfam@aol.com> To: <prussia-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] schnickel fritz and du, du, liegst mir im herzen > Hi Annie, > > If you ever do get around to writing the notes, would you be so kind as to > post them, or send them to me privately? > > Ruth > > > > ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Peter: Thank you so very much!  I can't wait to email this to my elder sisters, one is 78 the other 81! Ann   -----Original Message----- From: Peter917@aol.com To: prussia-roots@rootsweb.com Sent: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 12:14 pm Subject: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] Schnickel Fritz ,etc. Ann in reference to your ditty, ich bin klein ,the correct three lines are as ollows: Ich bin klein Mein Wunsch ist klein Grosspapa soll gluecklich sein. I am small My wish is small Let Grandpaw be Happy! Peter in Lombard ************************************* See what's free at ttp://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

I think the song with the opposites like kurz und lang is a German Beer Drinking Song. I have a napkin with the song words printed on it somewhere I think. Lisa

I know it is now Jim Thorpe. My mother would have killed anyone if they called the place of her birth Jim Thorpe. Ann -------Original Message------- From: prussia-roots@rootsweb.com Date: 06/21/07 22:17:55 To: prussia-roots@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] schnickel fritz Did you know that Mauch Chunk is now Jim Thorpe? Life goes on.......... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ann Francesconi" <annf@usa2net.net> To: <prussia-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] schnickel fritz >I think that I was referred to as, a sounds like"shanel madel" I think it > meant good girl. This discussion is a trip down memory lane for me also. > My > mom's side was German from Pennsylvania near Mauch Chunk and Scranton. > > Ann > > -------Original Message------- > > From: prussia-roots@rootsweb.com > Date: 06/21/07 17:09:12 > To: prussia-roots@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] schnickel fritz > > My paternal grandparents were not from Prussia, but their 1730 > ancestor-mmigrants came to PA from the Bern area of Switzerland. My > grandparents spoke PA DUtch (low German) in their home. My grandfather > and > my father called me a "snicklefritz". My grandfather would also say, "Du > bis du glenie madel". Or something like that. > The song referred to is similar to one my grandparents taught me, but > mine was "Yah, it is a 'snitzel bunk'". Not "snickel fritz". I think a > "snitzel bunk" is a tool of some sort. I always related it to "snitz" > which > is dried apples in this part of the country. > My grandfather also called me a "Pru-en". Which I think was simply our > "prune". It was usually when I did something naughty. Was this also of > German origin? > Interestingly, my husband's family was from Prussia, arriving much > later > than my ancestors. In the mid or late eighteen hundreds. He had never > heard the "snicklefritz" name. > Thanks for the memories. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sue Schlosser" <csds@lsol.net> > To: <prussia-roots@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 3:13 PM > Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] schnickel fritz > > >> My grandmother who came from Austria and grandpa from Germany use to sing >> a song about a schnickel fritz? It asked If you were a schnitzel fritz? >> to >> which you would respond ,"ya I am a schnickel fritz..." I can hear the >> melody in my mind . >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

_____ Would the person who sent the words to this song, please send it to me again. I thought I moved it to a folder but deleted it by mistake. I have fond memories of singing this with my GreatUncles. Thank you! mklaffky@columbus.rr.com

Hello List, I have been trying to get through all of the e-mails and just got "goosebumps" having read what is the same or similar to the prayer my Mom taught my daughter when she was very young. And I did get this down (I hope correctly): Ich bin klein I am small Mein hertz ist rein My heart is pure Niemand sol drin wohnin No one shall live therein Als Jesus allein But Jesus alone (My Mom grew up in Berlin. Her parents were born in West Prussia.) Thank you to all for the verses to all the songs. Karen Searching Schiecke/Schieke originally from Thüringen

Excellent memory, Rollo! There was, indeed, an Adler Theater in Marshfield that changed hands and names about 35 years ago. But there are still many Adlers in the area as well as a street named after them. I currently live just outside of Marshfield. Some of my ancestors were the first immigrants to the area. I, of course grew up in Marshfield and went to school there. If I can help with any research in the area or even the state, Arden, I'd be happy to see what I can find. Melanie Franklin > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 11:24:46 -0400 > From: "R. Lipprandt" <rloss@bellsouth.net> > Subject: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] ADLER > To: <prussia-roots@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <002c01c7b4e1$788df900$0302a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Although I am not related... I do remember an Alder Theatre in Marshfield, > Wood County, Wisconsin in the 1950's. Not sure if it still exists or if any > Alder's still live in that area. > > Many migrated from the Chicagoland area Northwards into Wisconsin... > possibly a link for you. > > Regards, Rollo+~~ > ================ > > Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] ADLER > > > >> I have been able to trace my ggrandfather Nicholas Biewer/Beaver back many >> generations to Kell am see but I found nothing in his wife Katharina Adler, >> born 1836, died 12/15/1908 in Brooklyn, NY. They immigrated about 1871 (I >> never found record of that). They had 14 children, John 1859, married & >> moved to Illinois), Peter 1862, remained in Brooklyn after the family moved >> there, Marie 1866 I have no record of, Mararetha 1864, moved to Ohio, >> Nicholas jr. 1870 I never found, then 3 more were born in Honesdale, Penn. >> Joseph 1872 lived in Brooklyn, NY, Katharina 1873 whom I never found and >> August 1874 (my grandfather) Brooklyn before moving to Long Island. They >> were Roman Catholic. >> >> Katharina probably lived in Kell also. Does anyone have her in their >> family line. I would like to find the church where they were married and >> possibly get their certificate. >> >> Thank you >> Arden >> >> > > > > >

I love those old songs. Does anyone remember "Der Tyroler Und Sein Kind"? Yes, I know it's not prussian but my grandmother sang it to me anyway. Gruss Greg Rehme