Yes.... you are correct. I did not phrase my reply well. My meaning was Preussen as a country in 1892 did not exist. Regards, Robert Lipprandt =================== Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] Preussen > Robert, > >> Audrey... Prussia no longer existed in the year 1892. Matter of fact, it >> existed only as Ostpreussen (East Prussia) and Westpreussen (West >> Prussia) >> after 1871 as provinces in the New Germany. > > Sorry to correct you, but Preussen was indeed a state ("Land") inside the > German Reich, divided up into provinces. > > see my posting from January: >> The existence of Prussia as a state of its own inside the German Reich >> ended >> in 1945. The very western parts used to belong to West Germany, the >> central >> part to Eastern Germany, both now Germany, the eastern including >> Pomerania, >> West- and East-Prussia belongs to Poland nowadays. >> The word Prussia is a term no more used in Germany except for historical >> reasons. > > Chris > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I am new at searching for my ancestors from Germany because every time I started it was too daunting. The posts on this list are helpful but I'm nowhere near ready to look far. So far I have yet to find a starting point other than "Prussia" or "Hannover" or some other name that isn't a village or town. Will have to keep checking things out on this side of the ocean. However, I just read a post where someone is looking for a map earlier than the one they had. This isn't much earlier than that one but it's very interesting. Follow their instructions by looking for the proper index page first. I have a dial-up connection and the map section itself took a very long time to load. But it did finally come up. Good luck! _http://www.library.wisc.edu/etext/ravenstein/home.html_ (http://www.library.wisc.edu/etext/ravenstein/home.html) The Atlas des Deutschen Reichs by Ludwig Ravenstein is relatively rare in libraries of the United States. Memorial Library at the University of Wisconsin-Madison selected the 1883 copy in our collection as one of our first digitization projects because of its usefulness for genealogists. The atlas helps in tracing the roots of families with origins in any part of the German empire from the late nineteenth century to the early twentieth century. Besides Germany, the maps of this atlas also cover the bordering portions of present-day Austria, Belgium, the Czech Republic, Denmark, France, Hungary, Lithuania, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Poland, the Russian Federation, Slovakia, and Switzerland. Due to the large scale of its maps (1:850,000) and its thorough gazetteer of place-names, one can locate even small towns and villages on the maps in the Ravenstein atlas. A special feature is the marking of the locations of churches on all of the maps as well as one special map with an accompanying table giving statistics on the religious denominations found throughout the German empire down to the Regierungsbezirk and Kreis governmental units. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Dear Mr. von Loewe, Does the book you mentioned below deal with the revolution in 1849; mentioning any names of those imprisoned? My gggrandfather was Johann Ludwig Arndt, a doctor and minister. He was the secretary of a revolutionary group and therefore imprisoned by the royality at the time. He escaped & fled to America,however his wife died-possibly killed- during his 15 months of imprisonment. He had 2 sons, Max who apparently died at a young age, and Hugo Richard who later came to America. Would it be worth my while to read the book by James Roy then? Thank you for any information you care to pass along! Cheryl RWidener@APK.Net > Kay Ruckle wrote that she had just finished reading James Charles Roy's > "The Vanished Kingdom; Travels Through the History of Prussia." > > Kay, I too recently read Roy's "The Vanished Kingdom..." I was severely > disappointed by his anti-Polish bias, including a picture of a "drunken > Pole" (perhaps not the exact photo caption) and the like. It borders on > being an anti-Polish polemic. He seems to be pre-occupied with the notion > of how unworthy the Poles are to be in control of what was Prussia. I > guess I expected too much from the book. I had just finished Alfred de > Zayas' "A Terrible Revenge," and expected better than I got from Roy. > Even though I am a trained historian of Russia and Eastern Europe, it is > only in the last three years, when I have been investigating my family's > genealogy, that I have firmly grasped the frequent, consummate ugliness of > nationality and ethnicity - and their equally frequent confusion with one > another - in Eastern Europe. > > De Zeyas makes a poignant plea, something to the effect that we should not > expect neighbors to love one another, but at least not to hate one > another. Alas, that is too much to ask of human beings even in this > millennium. > > I regret if some feel I have politicized this very helpful listserv, but I > could not let the reference to Roy's book go without remarking on my view > of his work. > > Karl von Loewe > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I too noticed the reference to "The Vanished Kingdom" by James Roy and having not read it, scanned the local library catalog to see if it was available (it was not). I have recently read de Zayas, "A Terrible Revenge" and Barbara W. Tuchman's "A Proud Tower." Both were found to be most helpful in understanding interaction between Prussia, Poland, German and the world in the late 1800's through 1946. I may take a pass on Roy's work. Could you recommend a less biased reading resource covering Prussia/Germany in the later 19th century? I would appreciate it Warren Haase janwgh@msn.com<mailto:janwgh@msn.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Karl von Loewe<mailto:Karl@KarlvonLoewe.com> To: prussia-roots@rootsweb.com<mailto:prussia-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 7:27 PM Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] Roy,"The Vanished Kingdon" (was Questions about naturalization papers) Kay Ruckle wrote that she had just finished reading James Charles Roy's "The Vanished Kingdom; Travels Through the History of Prussia." Kay, I too recently read Roy's "The Vanished Kingdom..." I was severely disappointed by his anti-Polish bias, including a picture of a "drunken Pole" (perhaps not the exact photo caption) and the like. It borders on being an anti-Polish polemic. He seems to be pre-occupied with the notion of how unworthy the Poles are to be in control of what was Prussia. I guess I expected too much from the book. I had just finished Alfred de Zayas' "A Terrible Revenge," and expected better than I got from Roy. Even though I am a trained historian of Russia and Eastern Europe, it is only in the last three years, when I have been investigating my family's genealogy, that I have firmly grasped the frequent, consummate ugliness of nationality and ethnicity - and their equally frequent confusion with one another - in Eastern Europe. De Zeyas makes a poignant plea, something to the effect that we should not expect neighbors to love one another, but at least not to hate one another. Alas, that is too much to ask of human beings even in this millennium. I regret if some feel I have politicized this very helpful listserv, but I could not let the reference to Roy's book go without remarking on my view of his work. Karl von Loewe ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Audrey... Prussia no longer existed in the year 1892. Matter of fact, it existed only as Ostpreussen (East Prussia) and Westpreussen (West Prussia) after 1871 as provinces in the New Germany. Before 1871... that's another story at Prussia extended from Lithuania on the East to France on the West. This also includes your area around Köln (Cologne). I believe this area was previously known as the Rhineland. Could be that your 1892 map is mislabeled? Regards, Robert Lipprandt (South Florida) ============== Subject: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] RITTBERG > thank you for all the help in finding RITTBERG > I went to the Seattle main library and found the Myers orts book > and the Myers book that shows the old German alphabet > The earliest map of Prussia was 1892. I am trying to find earlier maps > Rittbrerg is North of BONN and E of COLOGNE S of BERGLSCH in the > Westphalia district of Germany near EDDK airport > thanks > Audrey Bowne > Seattle > acbowne1@yahoo.com >

Kay: Just some fyi - I found my great grandparents in the Germans to America also, listed as coming from Hamburg. I then looked at the microfilm of the actual ship manifest and it gave the last residence in Prussia (Nakel). GTA, in most cases across the board, left that info out. You might want to double check your ship manifest also. Another place I have found the place of origin for German ancestors is in the records of the church where they worshipped here in the US. I have found this on several occasions. Unfortunately the naturalization papers of that era rarely give such info. Enjoy your trip. Sheila K. -------------- Original message from kay ruckle <kayruckle@yahoo.com>: -------------- > Hi Wendy, > > I just finished reading "The Vanished Kingdom...Travels Through the History of > Prussia," by James Charles Roy. It is an overview of the history of Prussia > starting in 1275. > > I have a ggf, Frederick Rahde, and a ggm, Wilhelmina Kamischke Rahde, from > West Prussia and I am trying to locate their places of birth. All I have are > their dob and West Prussia as a location. They emigrated in 1883 from Hamburg > to New York on a ship called (or at least it looks like) "Suevia." That entry > is found in "Germans to America." > > We are planning a trip to Germany and Poland in Octoer to visit my ancestoral > homelands and I am still trying to locate their birthplaces. My next move is to > locate their immigration and naturalization papers. > > Good luck, > > Kay List Ruckle > > > --------------------------------- > Get your own web address. > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Kay Ruckle wrote that she had just finished reading James Charles Roy's "The Vanished Kingdom; Travels Through the History of Prussia." Kay, I too recently read Roy's "The Vanished Kingdom..." I was severely disappointed by his anti-Polish bias, including a picture of a "drunken Pole" (perhaps not the exact photo caption) and the like. It borders on being an anti-Polish polemic. He seems to be pre-occupied with the notion of how unworthy the Poles are to be in control of what was Prussia. I guess I expected too much from the book. I had just finished Alfred de Zayas' "A Terrible Revenge," and expected better than I got from Roy. Even though I am a trained historian of Russia and Eastern Europe, it is only in the last three years, when I have been investigating my family's genealogy, that I have firmly grasped the frequent, consummate ugliness of nationality and ethnicity - and their equally frequent confusion with one another - in Eastern Europe. De Zeyas makes a poignant plea, something to the effect that we should not expect neighbors to love one another, but at least not to hate one another. Alas, that is too much to ask of human beings even in this millennium. I regret if some feel I have politicized this very helpful listserv, but I could not let the reference to Roy's book go without remarking on my view of his work. Karl von Loewe

Wendy, Could your 'Lichtenfeld, Germany' be Lichtenfels', and Hipstedt, listed as the last residence of Henriette Radke on the ship passenger list, be Heppstädt ? Lichtenfels is 222.3 miles SSW of Berlin and Heppstädt is 191.9 miles SSW of Berlin, about 30 mles from each other. http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/LocTown.asp Heppstädt 49°42' 10°55' E M U G Germany 222.3 miles SSW of Berlin 52°31' 13°24' Lichtenfels 50°09' 11°04' E M U G Germany 191.9 miles SSW of Berlin 52°31' 13°24' Hope this helps, Ruth Pokorny

The following gravesites are in the Old Greensboro Cemetery, in Greensboro, Alabama: Katherine Sparrenberger Wife of J. P. Lieser Born in Eckelsheim, Germany November 25, 1830 Died November 18, 1907 Joseph Peter Lieser Born St. Wendel, Prussia February 5, 1830 Died January 10, 1897 Co. C 36th Ala Regt C.S.A. Should anyone have any questions, my email address is: cssmalley@bellsouth.net.

Hi again Wendy. I don't know if this is your Henrietta, but her age and immigration year fits. If this is your Henrietta, then she landed at Castle Garden in New York, because Ellis Island did not open until 1892. Hope this helps, Ruth Pokorny http://www.stevemorse.org/ellis/cg.html Henriette Radke Occupation Unknown Age 26 Sex F Literacy U Arrived 20 Oct 1891 Origin Germany Port Bremen & Southampton Last Residence Hipstedt Destination New York Plan Unknown Ship Aller Passage Unknown

Hi Wendy, Did you try to find a marriage record? Sometimes the place of birth is on this record. Maybe you can try to find a marriage record for them in Brookings County, South Dakota. Their daughter, Margaret was born there. South Dakota Births, 1856-1903 Name: Margaret Wagner Birth Date: 10 Aug 1893 Gender: Female County: Brookings Father's name: Michael Wagner Mother's name: Henrietta Radke File Date: 6 Dec 1956 Hope this helps, Ruth Pokorny

thank you for all the help in finding RITTBERG I went to the Seattle main library and found the Myers orts book and the Myers book that shows the old German alphabet The earliest map of Prussia was 1892. I am trying to find earlier maps Rittbrerg is North of BONN and E of COLOGNE S of BERGLSCH in the Westphalia district of Germany near EDDK airport thanks Audrey Bowne Seattle acbowne1@yahoo.com --------------------------------- No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

Hi Laura, > I have an ancestor (my g-g-grandmother) who was a Rehbein. Her name was > Amelia or Amalia, and she was born March 26, 1837. She married Michael > Schendel, a widower, in about 1856, probably around the area of Schubin or > Schonlanke, Posen. They emigrated to the US in 1857. Does she fit anywhere > in your family records? No, I'm afraid she does not. Most of my Rehbein ancestors come from a small village called Zippnow, West Prussia, and as far as I know, there was quite some emigration from there to the US in the 19th century. Posen is not too far from Zippnow - maybe Amalia is a far relative. Got any birth or parent data on her? Chris

Hi Audrey, > I went to the library and looked for Rittberg on German maps and did not > find Rittberg what did Rittberg change to ? Still called Rittberg, no changes > I think it is near BONN Germany it is indeed. Have a look on this link: http://www.fallingrain.com/world/GM/7/Rittberg.html Chris

"----Original Message Follows---- I went to the library and looked for Rittberg on German maps and did not find Rittberg what did Rittberg change to ? It was Rittberg Prussia in 1840 I think it is near BONN Germany thanks for any info Audrey Seattle acbowne1@yahoo.com Audrey, You're trying to go too fast. You can't just jump into German records with some census and muster roll data, and info from a death certificate. Genealogy seldom is successful in going from point "A" to point "D" without visiting points "B" and "C" first. Success comes from being methodical. Researchers have to know three things about an ancestor in order to delve into German records; 1.) Name and birthdate of the ancestor, 2.) Place of origin from a reliable record in the immigrant's new country, and 3.) Names of parents and possibly siblings (as confirming data). This info is needed in the form of "primary evidence," and census data is not considered such. Death records are only primary as to the date and place of death, not to any birth information (or anything else). Finding those three things in census or on-line isn't enough. Researchers have to follow up with research in American records, if only for confirmation purposes. While genealogy requires a ton of common sense, it also requires learning about record types and how to research. How can researchers find the answers they seek if they don't know what record types hold those answers and how to find them? We're not born knowing these things. Checking out a good genealogy "how-to" book from the library is what I always recommend first. If a researcher finds themself getting hooked on it, as many do, then buy a book on American genealogy. Every researcher needs to learn what is considered primary evidence and what is not. If the data needed to find the ancestor in German records is collected, then a knowledge of German records will need to be learned. German record types are different from records in other countries. There are several good how-to books on German genealogy. While you have posted many good questions, a HUGE part of genealogy is learning about the geography and history of the area where ancestors came from. That can't be done asking questions. There is much on-line that can answer those questions by using a good search engine. Obviously, doing the research at a library is even better. On-line genealogy research, for now, is only about 5% to 10% of the work needed if a researcher wants to prove their foreign origins and find the relatives left behind in the old country, much less the current day family. To answer your original question, you should go to the nearest LDS Family History Center and look up Rittberg in "Meyer's Orts." But, truthfully, I think that's being premature for more evidence is needed on what has already been found. Proof is everything. Genealogy without proof is only mythology. Good luck, LGO" Great and calming reply, LGO. Audrey, are the names you're looking for spelled the same on all your documents? I know my GFs name prefectly well, but every document I've received so far (marriage licenses including her own, death certificates, obits, SS applications for 14 children) ALL have a different birth surname for my GM. Some are similar, some aren't, but no 2 match. Grrrr! The only agreement is in her first nick-name. She never went by her formal given name, another complication. My cousin was supposed to help me with the cost of documents by getting the immigration documents and the children's birth certificates, but never did. That'll be my next order to place. Each census and the ship manifest for my GF has different, vague origin information: Pertrikan, Prussia, Germany (I'm told by another lists' members that there is no such place in the German Empire as "Petrikan"). And I've been at this for about 4 months now. I have my mother's side back into the early 1700s in CT and MA as that appears to be well-trod ground, but my father's side is only back to 1891 when my GF arrived in Baltimore. I have so much to do to chase down his 14 kid's doings and families that overseas searching is probably premature for me. I'm here on this list trying to gather how-to advice and learn about resources to seach when I have enough information. Trying to pin down the (fairly) correct name and the real place they came from is crucial. You now have links to at least 3 places to look for current town names - when you're ready. All the best to us both (we make are our luck, I think), Julia _________________________________________________________________ Download Messenger. Join the i’m Initiative. Help make a difference today. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_APR07

Kay....if your immigrant ancestor was buried from a church & you know where...ask them to check the church register...it may give the place of his birth.....that's how I found my grandmother. J

Hi Wendy, I just finished reading "The Vanished Kingdom...Travels Through the History of Prussia," by James Charles Roy. It is an overview of the history of Prussia starting in 1275. I have a ggf, Frederick Rahde, and a ggm, Wilhelmina Kamischke Rahde, from West Prussia and I am trying to locate their places of birth. All I have are their dob and West Prussia as a location. They emigrated in 1883 from Hamburg to New York on a ship called (or at least it looks like) "Suevia." That entry is found in "Germans to America." We are planning a trip to Germany and Poland in Octoer to visit my ancestoral homelands and I am still trying to locate their birthplaces. My next move is to locate their immigration and naturalization papers. Good luck, Kay List Ruckle --------------------------------- Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

Wendy, Lichtenfeld was in Kreis Heiligenbeil, East Prussia. It was generally located south of Zinfen and northeast of Meldsack. A nearby, larger community was Eichholz. Both Lichtenfeld and Eichholz were located on the main road between Zinfen and Meldsack. For the record, Prussia had it's "beginnings" in East Prussia. Today, Lichtenfeld is Lelkowo, Poland. Eichholz is Debowiec. Be aware there was also a place called Lichtenfelde (with an "e") that was located in East Prussia. This place was in Kreis Preuss-Eylau and generally located northeast of Kreuzburg, by Jesau. Today this Lichtenfelde is located in the Russian Federation, not far from Kaliningrad. Karen B. Whitmer ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Rittberg Village Names: a.. German: Rittberg, Tormak b.. Official: Tormac c.. Hungarian: d.. Spelling and/or dialect variants: Location: a.. Country: Romania b.. Postal Code: 1835 c.. Railroad station: d.. Filial parish of: Nitzkydorf Population: a.. 1940: 129 Germans b.. 1910: Genealogical Records: a.. Village name in FHL records: b.. Church records available at FHL: c.. FHL Microfilm Nr. Miscellaneous: a.. Founded: Bibliography http://www.genealogienetz.de/reg/ESE/banat_r.htm

Rittberg Unternehmen & Dienstleistung - Yahoo! Lokale Suche- [ Translate this page ] Finden Sie lokale Unternehmen und Dienstleister in Rittberg mit Yahoo! Lokale Suche. Details der lokalen Unternehmen und Dienstleister in Rittberg, ... de.local.yahoo.com/Rheinisch-Bergischer_Kreis/Rittberg/688894-idx.html - 22k -