Hi - After looking in a couple German naming dictionaries under S and Z to be sure your names were not in there - they weren't - I looked in William F. Hoffman's Polish Surnames, Origins and Meanings: Sawin (sawina) "savin"; Sawina, Sawinski (diacritical over the n), Szawinski (diacritical over the n). These last two would be pronounced pretty much the same, I think. Best you listen to the sounds of someone who speaks Polish, especially in the dialect for the area you're searching. The same family may have varying spellings according to where they settled and moved around. I think they did that just to drive us genealogists nuts. In German, many sounds overlap to our ears - D and DT and T and TH are all pronounced as a D in German (and are listed in dictionaries that way - no T or TH); C, K and G sound like K. And V and W are interchanged, often with F. In Polish, which I am not so conversant with, the c and z in a word are soft, not a K sound. Best description I've found so far is in Hanks & Hodges' A Dictionary of Surnames: Sawicki - Polish; from the given name Sawa (from Greek Subbas, the name of a saint who died in 532) with the addition of -ski, suffix of surnames. Diminutive: Polish : Sawczyk Patronymnics: Polish Sawicz, Croatian Savkovic (diacriticals over c) Patronymic from a diminutive: Sawer, see also Sayer. Cognitives: German Sager; Low German Sager. Flemish, Dutch Saeger, Saegaert; Jewish (Ashkenazic) Seger, Sager; Zegman from Yiddish seg saw. Patronymic English: Sawyers None of these spellings is exactly the same as yours, but the sound is close, and since there were no spelling rules until around 1875-1900 - and no one paid much attention when there were, the sound is probably your best guide. Bringing those names to North America brought more changes in spelling, but the accents lingered for awhile - hence a Polish name beginning with an S being pronounced as a Z (rather than the other way around, usually) which is true of German also. My father always referred to it as the kitchen zink - and he was born in Missouri of immigrant parents. What we hear is the Z sound and what the Germans and Poles and others hear is the S. I don't have anything indicating Kasubian names - yet - but I'm looking. You might well have ethnic Polish names in a Kasubian district - as there were many ethnic Germans in Polen/Poland and Pommern/Pomerania and Östpreussen/East Prussia and elsewhere. I hope the experts on Kasubian culture and research will add to this exploration. Most interesting! Maureen Schoenky ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

I too have been watching your postings,, and recognised the name Kunz,, because I live in a small farming community in Wash State and have four families with that last name here.. Since I am from a family who also came from Wi and Minn with Prussian roots,, who came to this area,, thought it might be worth mentioning,, sandersen000@centurytel.net Salinda ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

> can anyone tell me where 'Schiffelbein' was in 1892 Prussia? What do you think about the city of Schivelbein, Kreis ( County ) Belgard-Schivelbein, Pommerania, since 1945 Swidwin, Poland ? Should be the right place. Let me know what you have about your great grandmother. With some luck I can help. Dieter Schimmelpfennig Heimatkreisbearbeiter -- Der Kreis Belgard-Schivelbein in Pommern http://www.belgard.org Historische Einwohnerdatenbank / Historical Inhabitants Database http://www.belgard.org/Namen/index.htm Belgard-Schivelbein Mailingliste http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Kreis-Belgard

Is this the right list for questions for the town and areas of Saarbrucken? Louise N. NW of Chicago ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

I think you might find that names ending in -ske came from a more southerly and easterly area - the names ending in -ke generally came from the northern coastline, mostly the Baltic Sea. Germanic names do not generally have the -ske or -ski or -sky endings, so look south, at least in older records. Maureen Schoenky ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Reading all of the info about Kasubian surnames that end in " ske " I have been searching for a birth place record of Bertha Albertina DEVONSKE for several years. She was born on Feb. 05 1841 ( someplace ) , and married Bernhard Haack ( someplace ) Their GTA volumes record that They immigrated from Kosalin , Pommern , Prussia. If anyone has seen where that surname of DEVONSKE came from . Please let Me know. Sincerely Karl Roussin

Hi Maureen, Thank you so much. Now I can understand why there are two different spellings of the name. Now I have to just find out where in the world she came from and do my searching there. All I know from the marriage license is her father's name was Albert Sawitzki and her tombstone said she was born in 1868. She died in 1918 and I have no idea if there were any of her family around. Thanks again for the help Pat --------------------------------- Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing.

Appreciate your response...Jane ----- Original Message ----- From: <Spaghettitree@aol.com> To: <prussia-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 3:44 PM Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] Kasubian Names > > I think you might find that names ending in -ske came from a more > southerly > and easterly area - the names ending in -ke generally came from the > northern > coastline, mostly the Baltic Sea. Germanic names do not generally have > the -ske > or -ski or > -sky endings, so look south, at least in older records. > > Maureen Schoenky > > > ************************************** > See what's free at > http://www.aol.com. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Not sure if your Ziebells are related in any way to mine, but here is what I have. Perhaps something will click. My grgrgrandmother Carolina Ziebell m. Christlieb Heinrich Wilhelm Boeck (b. 1815) of Falkenburg, Dramburg Co, Prussia. They stayed in Prussia. Her parents were somebody "Siebel" and Charlotte Froemming. Carolina had two siblings that I know something about, and both emigrated. One was Wilhelmina Sophia Ziebell b. 10 sep 1840 married Carl Herman Lichtfuss in Mar 1865. They came over in 1884 and settled in Union, Waupaca Co, WI. Another sister is Johanne Albertine Henriette Ziebell married Julius Johann August Dettman. My Carolina Ziebell who married the Boeck had a daughter named Bertha Johanne Albertine Carolina Boeck, my Great Grandmother. She was b.26 Oct 1862 in Leckow, Belgard, Prussia and married Emil Theodor Franz Schellin in 1887. They emigrated in 1893. They settled in Eland, Shawano Co, WI. They had 8 children. Their names were: Otto Carl Albert Schellin Anna Johanne Matilde Schellin Elisabeth Bertha Martha Schellin Dora Clare Marie Schellin Marie Ella Sophia Schellin Ruth Elfrieda Schellin Bertha Augusta Schellin (my Grandma) Esther Frieda Rachel Schellin Ruth died in Fall Creek, and at least two of the sisters lived in the Milwaukee area. Elisabeth died in Los Angeles, CA in 1933. Let me know if you find a connection. Jayne Overgard 101heath wrote: > My great grandmother settled in Milwaukee, WI with her daughter Bertha > M. Ziebell b. Oct 1866 Prussia--who had married in the U.S. a Jacob J. > Kunz b. Jan 1867 Wisconsin. My great-grandmother Caroline Ziebell, > b.ca. 1822/24 from 'Schiffelbein' in a census said she had had 5 > children, 5 living (1910 census) and had been married 50 yrs, now > widowed by 1892. I think I have accounted for 3 children of the 5: > 1. Albert Carl Wilhelm Ziebell b.unknown m. Auguste Wilhelminie Sophie > Friedericke DAHN and lived in Kiel, Schleswig-Holstein, Prussia. Did > not emigrate. > 2. Bertha M. Ziebell b. Oct 1866 Prussia married Jacob J. Kunz b. Jan > 1867 Wisconsin. Lived 1900, 1910 in Milwaukee. I can't find them in > 1920 or 1930 but at least one of the people from their household ended > up in Chicago, Illinois so family may have relocated. > 3. David J. Ziebell b.ca. 1864 (living in U.S. 1910 census in > Milwaukee, Wisconsin) > 4. Unknown ziebell > 5. Unknown Ziebell > > I do believe the the Bertha M. Ziebell, daughter of Caroline Ziebell > would not have been allowed to take ship passage alone as a single > woman. I believe the #4,#5 above are as yet two unknown Ziebell men > who I have not yet found in the U.S. but were most likely in Wisconsin > also. In every census they have 'Americanized' their surname to Siebel. >

I concur Maurine... Regards, Rollo+~~ ============= Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] Kasubian burials > > After 20 years of doing Germanic research (GGSA and SCGS) this is the > first > time I have heard such a story, of moving people in a cemetery in Poland > over > to Germany. Sadly, I very, very seriously doubt it. In most of Europe, > unless > you were very famous or wealthy or military, the graves of most people > were > rented, not purchased, for 20 or 25 years, perhaps renewed once. After > that > time, the bones were recycled and the tombstones sold or used for > sidewalks and > new people were buried in the old places. There is simply no room for > everyone. There may be records as to those who paid the rental fees, a > great help, > but finding an ancestor's grave, probably not. Then when the Russians > came > through, entire villages, including cemeteries and farmsteads and > churches, were > decimated altogether. > > But, always worth looking, and perhaps you will be lucky. > > Maureen Schoenky, Germanic Research, SCGS > >

I have been reading this post about the Kasubian Names and was wandering if by chance someone could tell me where the name Sawitzki came from? Also would the name Zywicki be the American spelling of Sawitzki? On my great grandparents marriage license my great grandmother's name was Susanna Sawitzki, the next year on the baptismal record of their first born son her name is Susanna Zywicki. Why I am asking is because I can't find anything on either name. Thanks Pat --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!

Dieter, I appreciate any help, believe me. I am piecing my entire Prussian ancestry from about 10 small photos and 3 postcards sent back to Germany by my grandmother (Bertha Elfrieda Dora Ziebell) who came over in 1904. She never spoke of her family to anyone. Here's what I've been able to piece together: Caroline___b. 1822/24 married circa 1840-42 ____Ziebell. Caroline Ziebell (my great grandmother) was widowed by 1892. She boarded the Steamship Gerg as a '68 yr old widow' alone and it arrived in Baltimore, MD May 19, 1892. Several passengers on that steamship said their last place of residence was 'Schiffelbein, Germany' and she was one of them. She next shows up in the 1900 census in the household of Jacob J. Kunz in Milwaukee, Wisconsin (only now she's spelling Ziebell as Siebel). She is last found at age 88 in 1910 census in same household. I have not found her grave. I have also been unable to find out where this household went in 1920. They disappear off the planet. Caroline Ziebell b.ca. 1822/24 stated she had had 5 children, 5 living and had been married 50 yrs before becoming widowed. I can account for three children: 1. Albert Carl Wilhelm Ziebell b. unknown married Auguste Wilhelmina Sophie Friedericke Dahn and had 5 children. They were living in Kiel, Schleswig-Holstein and did not emigrate. (This is who the few postcards were mailed to). a) Bruno Max Albert Ziebell b.unknown d. 13 Dec 1944 in WWII air raid on Hamburg. No issue. b) Willie Ziebell b. unknown d. WWI period 1914-1918. No issue. c) Ella Ziebell b. 27 Mar 1885 Prussia d. 1 June 1965 Chicago, Cook Co. IL. Emigrated aboard SS Pennsylvania which left Hamburg 11 Mar 1904, arrived Port of New York 27 Mar 1904. Never married, no issue. d) Bertha Elfrieda Dora Ziebell b. 26 Apr 1886 Prussia d. 18 Nov 1964 Torrance, CA. Emigrated aboard SS Pennsylvania which left Hamburg 11 Mar 1904, arrived Port of New York 27 Mar 1904. Married and divorced. 5 kids. e) Paul Willie Albert Robert Ziebell b. 17 Sept 1887 Prussia d. 10 Mar 1954 Schleswig, Germany. Paul Ziebell never married but was said to have been mayor of a town. Addresses used for him on postcards were Gaarden, Kiel, Schleswig-Holstein, Deutschland. 2. Bertha M. Ziebell b. Oct 1866 Prussia m.ca. 1890 Jacob J. Kunz b. Jan 1867 Wisconsin. Bertha M. Ziebell stated she emigrated in 1883.They were living in Milwaukee, WI in 1900 and 1910. He was a barber. I cannot find them in 1920 or 1930 but they were young, so they had to have been somewhere. They had 2 children by 1910: a) Arthur Kunz b. July 1891 Wisconsin b) Hilda Kunz b. Oct 1894 Wisconsin 3. David J. Ziebell b.ca. 1864 Prussia. Found living in 1910 household of Jacob J. Kunz with his mother Caroline Ziebell, widowed. Working as coachman for a private family in Milwaukee WI. Stated he emigrated in 1890. I cannot find him after the 1910 census.

Reading all of the info about Kasubian surnames that end in " ske " I have been searching for a birth place record of Bertha Albertina DEVONSKE for several years. She was born on Feb. 05 1841 ( someplace ) , and married Bernhard Haack ( someplace ) Their GTA volumes record that They immigrated from Kosalin , Pommern , Prussia. If anyone has seen where that surname of DEVONSKE came from . Please let Me know. Sincerely Karl Roussin

My great grandmother settled in Milwaukee, WI with her daughter Bertha M. Ziebell b. Oct 1866 Prussia--who had married in the U.S. a Jacob J. Kunz b. Jan 1867 Wisconsin. My great-grandmother Caroline Ziebell, b.ca. 1822/24 from 'Schiffelbein' in a census said she had had 5 children, 5 living (1910 census) and had been married 50 yrs, now widowed by 1892. I think I have accounted for 3 children of the 5: 1. Albert Carl Wilhelm Ziebell b.unknown m. Auguste Wilhelminie Sophie Friedericke DAHN and lived in Kiel, Schleswig-Holstein, Prussia. Did not emigrate. 2. Bertha M. Ziebell b. Oct 1866 Prussia married Jacob J. Kunz b. Jan 1867 Wisconsin. Lived 1900, 1910 in Milwaukee. I can't find them in 1920 or 1930 but at least one of the people from their household ended up in Chicago, Illinois so family may have relocated. 3. David J. Ziebell b.ca. 1864 (living in U.S. 1910 census in Milwaukee, Wisconsin) 4. Unknown ziebell 5. Unknown Ziebell I do believe the the Bertha M. Ziebell, daughter of Caroline Ziebell would not have been allowed to take ship passage alone as a single woman. I believe the #4,#5 above are as yet two unknown Ziebell men who I have not yet found in the U.S. but were most likely in Wisconsin also. In every census they have 'Americanized' their surname to Siebel.

Names ending in -ke most generally originate from the northern areas along the Baltic Sea, some along the North Sea, most most predominantly the Baltic. These include multiple ethnic groups. Maureen Schoenky (the y is an aberration, changed in the USA, originally Schoenke/Schönke) from Königsberg. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

After 20 years of doing Germanic research (GGSA and SCGS) this is the first time I have heard such a story, of moving people in a cemetery in Poland over to Germany. Sadly, I very, very seriously doubt it. In most of Europe, unless you were very famous or wealthy or military, the graves of most people were rented, not purchased, for 20 or 25 years, perhaps renewed once. After that time, the bones were recycled and the tombstones sold or used for sidewalks and new people were buried in the old places. There is simply no room for everyone. There may be records as to those who paid the rental fees, a great help, but finding an ancestor's grave, probably not. Then when the Russians came through, entire villages, including cemeteries and farmsteads and churches, were decimated altogether. But, always worth looking, and perhaps you will be lucky. Maureen Schoenky, Germanic Research, SCGS ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

> Spaghettitree@aol.com wrote: I don't think they met the dead people were moved to Germany. The live ones were moved to Germany and that's why you wouldn't find relatives in the cemeteries in Poland. If they were in Germany and died, they were buried in Germany. > > After 20 years of doing Germanic research (GGSA and SCGS) this is the first time I have heard such a story, of moving people in a cemetery in Poland over to Germany. Sadly, I very, very seriously doubt it. In most of Europe, unless you were very famous or wealthy or military, the graves of most people were rented, not purchased, for 20 or 25 years, perhaps renewed once. After that time, the bones were recycled and the tombstones sold or used for sidewalks and new people were buried in the old places. There is simply no room for everyone. There may be records as to those who paid the rental fees, a great help, but finding an ancestor's grave, probably not. Then when the Russians came through, entire villages, including cemeteries and farmsteads and churches, were decimated altogether. But, always worth looking, and perhaps you will be lucky. Maureen Schoenky, Germanic Research, SCGS ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- "Drive to Arrive Alive" Larry Krull Midwest Driving School (785)841-7749 (785)760-1879 www.midwestdrivingschool.com

Hi Vilhelm I must admit I had never heard of Kashubia. But then, before starting my research, I had never heard of Masuria where my ancestors came from either! A quick google turned up http://www.kashuba.org/ with its own discussion forum. Might be a good place to start. Nell Schemioneck -----Original Message----- From: prussia-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:prussia-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of jetski Sent: Wednesday, 6 June 2007 10:24 AM To: PRUSSIA-ROOTS@rootsweb.com Subject: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] Information on Kashuby Hello. I have just joined the list. My area of interest is with the Kashubian people. I have reason to believe that I and my family are Kashubian as my g-grandfather was born in the Barnin area. According to the maps I have Barmin was just on the edge of the Kashuby country line. My family refers to themselves as Prussian, even though we are Salvic, but both but both Slavic and Kashuby are included in the description of Prussian. Does anyone on this list work with facts about the Kashuby people and their nation, or are they too ostersized from this group. Sincerely, Vilhem Hoeft ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello, I just returned from a Pommeranian Tour through Kashuby, an absolutely beautiful area, considered the Switzerland of Poland. My Seils ancestry is of Kashubian origin, but I am wondering if all names from that region ending in "ke" are considered Kashubian. Does anyone know if there is a list of Kashubian names? Thanks in advance, Jane Minnesota ----- Original Message ----- From: <Lynnjoni@aol.com> To: <prussia-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 9:16 AM Subject: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] Kasubian Names > Hi Everyone, > I have been enjoying the discussion about Kasubains. Bette asked about > the > surnames. Some examples are Boike, Reske, Ponke, Pohnke, Dettlaff, and > Mudlaff. When I was in Poland a couple of years ago, I was told at the > cemetery > that I wouldn't find any of my relatives because after World War II, the > people were all moved to Germany so they would probably being buried > there. The > gentleman said that they are coming back to this beautiful region for > their > retirement. I did find two names in the phone book. The Baltic Sea > makes me > think of Lake Superior in Michigan. The sunset in summer is beautiful. > > I was wondering if anyone knows where in Germany, the people from this > area > were moved? Thank you for your help. > Joni Boike Wasilewski > > > > ************************************** See what's free at > http://www.aol.com. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Everyone, I have been enjoying the discussion about Kasubains. Bette asked about the surnames. Some examples are Boike, Reske, Ponke, Pohnke, Dettlaff, and Mudlaff. When I was in Poland a couple of years ago, I was told at the cemetery that I wouldn't find any of my relatives because after World War II, the people were all moved to Germany so they would probably being buried there. The gentleman said that they are coming back to this beautiful region for their retirement. I did find two names in the phone book. The Baltic Sea makes me think of Lake Superior in Michigan. The sunset in summer is beautiful. I was wondering if anyone knows where in Germany, the people from this area were moved? Thank you for your help. Joni Boike Wasilewski ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.