I did not locate a marriage record for Johann and Catherine in Wisconsin between 1850 and 18650 in Milwaukee Co. There is a death certificate for a Catherine Fuchs in Milwaukee Co. WI. She died 10 April 1889, Reel 068, Volume 10, Page 0184. Index Vol: 03 and Sequence No. 115183. I cannot state that this is your Catherine. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ellie Depew" <SraEllie@carolina.rr.com> To: <prussia-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 12:38 PM Subject: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] Johann Nicholas Fuchs > Johann Nicholas Fuchs, son of Frederick Adam Fuchs, was born Aug. 28, > 1821, and emigrated to New York via the ship /Florida /in June 1842. In > 1850, he was living in Milwaukee--the census records him as John--with > his wife Margaret (born 1826) and three children, born 1845-1849 in New > York. By 1860, he had married Catherine Koch (born Dec 27 1838). Their > oldest child was born Sep. 17, 1862. > > Johann's naturalization papers record him as renouncing allegiance to > King Ludwig of Prussia. The only Frederick Adam Fuchs I have been able > to find was born in Eckweiler, Prussia, in 1780. Wisconsin records and > church records yielded only his father's name. The LDS church records > for that site stop at 1800, so I have been unable to verify that this is > our family. Still, the naming patterns fit. > > All this is prelude to my questions: > 1. Where does New York store its marriage records for the years > 1842-1845? > 2. If the city of Milwaukee shows no marriage records for John & > Catherine, is there a state repository for Wisconsin > marriages during the 1850's? (I realize that it is possible that they > married in Northern Illinois or Indiana.) > 3. How does one find a reliable genealogist in Germany to verify > the church records I have found through FamilySearch? Or > is there another source I may have missed? > > I am aware that, if I can find the marriage records I need, they may > well yield the information I seek, and I am hoping that such is the > case. However, I have been stonewalled so often with Johann that I'm > asking the Prussia question as well. > > Ellie Depew > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Take a gander at this URL Carol... I do believe it's right down your alley.... http://www.prairiepublic.org/features/GFR/gfrguide.pdf This give a bit of history of the how's and why's of the migration to the Ukraine and also how's and why's of the return to Germany and/or immigration to the Americas. The other site I was trying to find either does no longer exist or has merged with another. It was part of the University of Vermont. Regards, Rollo+~~ =============== Subject: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] Prussian ancestors > My Prussian ancestors are the greatest mystery in my genealogy. I am at > a point where I am unsure whether any of the oral history, dates and > places are correct. Rollo, I assume these families are Germans to > Russia. I know the Volhynia places but little more of the following is > proven information. > parents: August Georg Schumann, > born 17 Jan 1858 Dolfusbuch, West Prussia > died:3 Jan 1895 > Augusta E. Freimann, daughter of Carl Freimann and Caroline > (geb.Weinert, 21 April 1821, Kraftshagen, East Prussia) > Augusta was born: 16 Sept. 1864 Krafthagen, East Prussia, died: > 20 March 1902 Stieglitz, Prussia > children: > Auguste Pauline Schumann: (not in family memory) b. 13 Dec 1882 in > Boguslowka > (1895614/3 547 109) > Bertha A. Schumann ? > born: > died: before 1888 of diphtheria > Karl Schumann? > born: > died:before 1888 of diphtheria > Fredrich Wilhelm Schumann > born: 18 Dec 1885, Boguslawka (1897692/1 376 1594 ) > died:before 1888 of diphtheria > Emma W. Schumann > born: 9 March 1888, Wollhynia, Russia, also listed as Shittomir > died: 1967 Canada > married: Gottlieb Jobs 24 Oct 1904 in Wetaskiwin, Alberta, Canada > Ida Schumann > born: 12 Dec 1889 > died:2 Nov 1964, Canada > married: Blake Johnston, Alberta Canada > Gustav Schumann > born: 14 May 1891 > died: about 1907, Calgary, Canada > Minna Schumann...my grandmother > born: 30 Oct 1893, Eichfier, West Prussia > died:1965 , Mpls, Minnesota > married: Fred Paulson, Alberta, Canada > known siblings of Augusta Freimann are Friedrich and Karl Freimann who > came to Alberta Canada. One daughter of Friedrich was born 21 Aug 1883 > in Ruvine, Dobritz, Gonver/Sitomir, Russia according to her marriage > record) > > siblings of August Schumann are? Bertha, Mathilda, Avine, Emilie > > The four youngest children came to Canada in the fall of 1902 with the > mother (Caroline Freimann) of their mother. All of my information comes > from family sources except the Wollhynia, Russia birthplace,Sittomir > which comes from her marriage record, and the two other references to > Russian births which also come from Canadian marriage records. > I would appreciate any suggestions for obtaining further information > on this family. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

The surnames of Fuchs and Koch are on the Salzburger list. If indeed your ancestors were of the Salzburger's these are ethnic Lutheran Germans who left the Salzburg, Austria area, many in 1731-1732 and went to East Prussia and another group settled in Ebenezer, Georgia. They left due to religious reasons. http://www.rootsweb.com/~autwgw/exul/sn1.htm also http://www.salzburger.homepage.t-online.de/Fam-name.htm This is a website telling the story of the Salzburgers. http://www.exulanten.com/preussen.html Sandie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ellie Depew" <SraEllie@carolina.rr.com> To: <prussia-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 12:38 PM Subject: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] Johann Nicholas Fuchs > Johann Nicholas Fuchs, son of Frederick Adam Fuchs, was born Aug. 28, > 1821, and emigrated to New York via the ship /Florida /in June 1842. In > 1850, he was living in Milwaukee--the census records him as John--with > his wife Margaret (born 1826) and three children, born 1845-1849 in New > York. By 1860, he had married Catherine Koch (born Dec 27 1838). Their > oldest child was born Sep. 17, 1862. > > Johann's naturalization papers record him as renouncing allegiance to > King Ludwig of Prussia. The only Frederick Adam Fuchs I have been able > to find was born in Eckweiler, Prussia, in 1780. Wisconsin records and > church records yielded only his father's name. The LDS church records > for that site stop at 1800, so I have been unable to verify that this is > our family. Still, the naming patterns fit. > > All this is prelude to my questions: > 1. Where does New York store its marriage records for the years > 1842-1845? > 2. If the city of Milwaukee shows no marriage records for John & > Catherine, is there a state repository for Wisconsin > marriages during the 1850's? (I realize that it is possible that they > married in Northern Illinois or Indiana.) > 3. How does one find a reliable genealogist in Germany to verify > the church records I have found through FamilySearch? Or > is there another source I may have missed? > > I am aware that, if I can find the marriage records I need, they may > well yield the information I seek, and I am hoping that such is the > case. However, I have been stonewalled so often with Johann that I'm > asking the Prussia question as well. > > Ellie Depew > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Place names in Lithuania Minor. Indexed in German, Russian and Lithuanian. http://pirmojiknyga.mch.mii.lt/Leidiniai/Prusviet.en.htm#vietovardziai ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. Lipprandt" <rloss@bellsouth.net> To: <prussia-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 4:51 PM Subject: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] German - Polish name changes > The following may be of interest to some of you: > > Script, Old German (view only) > http://www.tr62.de/script/default.html > > Town Locators - Name Changes, German to Polish > http://www.atsnotes.com/other/gerpol.html > > The name city/village name changes above does not include the part of > Ostpreussen (East Prussia) that is now the Russian Oblast (??) Got another > link for those changes somewhere... > > Carol... is the Volhynia that you mentioned part of the Germans to Russia > (Ukraine) and then back to Germany or the US?? > > Somewhere in my files, I have an online group that hold many assets and > information sources of the people that migrated to America and settled in > the heartland North to Canada (Russian Germans). Will send that along > when > I can find it... again! > > Regards, Rollo+~~ > =============== > > Subject: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] German only > > >> Rollo, >> My grandmother's family also would not admit to anything other that >> German and living in Prussia, until the St. Petersburg archives >> identified births in Volhynia. When I asked them about the first birth >> record that I found, they said, "No, our family has not lived outside of >> Prussia." Finally, after the 3rd birth record they admitted that it >> truly was their family. My grandmother, Minna Schumann, supposedly was >> born in 1892 in Eichfier, West Prussia. I still have not found her >> birth record, but then SLC does not have all the birth records from >> there. I realize also that Minna may not be the recorded name as another >> grandmother, Amelia, was found to have the birth name of Regina >> Wilhelmine Emelie. Carol >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

It was not unusual for the women to come alone. In many instances the father/husband came first, worked and saved money and then sent for more of the family members. Sandie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol M. Duff" <duffc@redwing.net> To: <prussia-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 2:47 PM Subject: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] women alone > Julia, > My great-grandmother came alone with the children. > My grandmother and her siblings came alone with her grandmother. > Many females in my family came alone. > Sometimes there was a cousin on the same ship. > Sometimes there were already family here...cousins, etc. > Carol > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi all, I am new to the list and have a question........ My Biewer (Beaver, Biwer) ancestors came from a town called Kell. Was this considered part of Prussia? Some census records say Germany others Prussia and naturalization states Emperor of Germany. I am confused. Does this town still exist and where is it located? They were Roman Catholic and I don't know how to find out the church they attended to attempt to obtain records. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you Arden

Nancy, LGO is right.  I spent years trying to find my Prussian family, when a chance meeting with a distant cousin resulted in her having a birth certificate of her husband's father.  His mother was the sister of my g-grandmother, and she listed her birth place on her son's birth certificate.  Of course the town name is now changed, but, I found all the information through the LDS once I had a town.  Keep looking, those obscure records hold a clue somewhere. :-) BJ -----Original Message----- From: LGO ô¿ô <Le_Geefted_One@ix.netcom.com> To: prussia-roots@rootsweb.com Sent: Tue, 29 May 2007 1:52 pm Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] graf solms/Welter GGP Nancy, Despite your years of research on the Welter family, I'm sorry to say that it appears you need to do more research in American records before trying to find them in German/Prussian records. The simple fact that the only place origin you have for them is from family legend reinforces that. I would stop tying to prove that Grafsorms or Grafsolms is the village they came from, and scour and re-scour American records that would list the place of origin. Let the facts tell the story, don't let the story dictate the facts. Find in American records where the family came from and then pursue that locale. Many researchers believe they have found everything in the records of the immigrant's new country when in fact there can be more, sometimes much more, to be found. An item overlooked or put aside for another day and then never returned to. New resources never followed up on. We're all subject to this. None of us are immune. We all have loose ends in our research. Everyone. Wrapping up some of those loose ends, and possibly re-visiting select previous research can not only tidy up the large effort already put forth, but I suspect it will also confirm or refute the Grafsorms/Grafsolms legend, which is what you want. Good luck, LGO ----- Original Message ----- From: <erobin6886@aol.com> To: <prussia-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 9:50 AM Subject: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] graf solms/Welter GGP > Dear Listers, for many years I've been trying to trace my Welter family > back into Prussia They arrived in the US in 1853 according to census > records. Johann and Maria Christiana brought their five children to > Indiana. The children's names are Elizabeth, Christian, John, Emma and > Margaret and they ranged in age from 14 - 2. > > Family history said they came from Grafsorms or Grafsolms. I've been told > by German researchers that this cannot be a place name and even the LDS > Famiy History Library has not been able to help. We've found Kraftsolms > and that is the closest name. > > Yesterday, I found reference to Solms, Germany. Do any of you have > knowledge about this name? I found that it was first referred to in 1215 > but is currently a combination of small villages. I could spot it on a map > but couldn't find a way to learn more. I used Wikipedia and MapQuest. I > looked up Graf and learned that it means Count or Earl so that made Solms > seem reasonable. > > You are an active and helpful group. I've learned more about German > culture and customs from you than I knew after 12 years of research. > > Nancy in California > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

My Prussian ancestors are the greatest mystery in my genealogy. I am at a point where I am unsure whether any of the oral history, dates and places are correct. Rollo, I assume these families are Germans to Russia. I know the Volhynia places but little more of the following is proven information. parents: August Georg Schumann, born 17 Jan 1858 Dolfusbuch, West Prussia died:3 Jan 1895 Augusta E. Freimann, daughter of Carl Freimann and Caroline (geb.Weinert, 21 April 1821, Kraftshagen, East Prussia) Augusta was born: 16 Sept. 1864 Krafthagen, East Prussia, died: 20 March 1902 Stieglitz, Prussia children: Auguste Pauline Schumann: (not in family memory) b. 13 Dec 1882 in Boguslowka (1895614/3 547 109) Bertha A. Schumann ? born: died: before 1888 of diphtheria Karl Schumann? born: died:before 1888 of diphtheria Fredrich Wilhelm Schumann born: 18 Dec 1885, Boguslawka (1897692/1 376 1594 ) died:before 1888 of diphtheria Emma W. Schumann born: 9 March 1888, Wollhynia, Russia, also listed as Shittomir died: 1967 Canada married: Gottlieb Jobs 24 Oct 1904 in Wetaskiwin, Alberta, Canada Ida Schumann born: 12 Dec 1889 died:2 Nov 1964, Canada married: Blake Johnston, Alberta Canada Gustav Schumann born: 14 May 1891 died: about 1907, Calgary, Canada Minna Schumann...my grandmother born: 30 Oct 1893, Eichfier, West Prussia died:1965 , Mpls, Minnesota married: Fred Paulson, Alberta, Canada known siblings of Augusta Freimann are Friedrich and Karl Freimann who came to Alberta Canada. One daughter of Friedrich was born 21 Aug 1883 in Ruvine, Dobritz, Gonver/Sitomir, Russia according to her marriage record) siblings of August Schumann are? Bertha, Mathilda, Avine, Emilie The four youngest children came to Canada in the fall of 1902 with the mother (Caroline Freimann) of their mother. All of my information comes from family sources except the Wollhynia, Russia birthplace,Sittomir which comes from her marriage record, and the two other references to Russian births which also come from Canadian marriage records. I would appreciate any suggestions for obtaining further information on this family.

Bill Hoeft, Just a slight correction. Lithuanians and Latvians are not Slavic peoples. They, along with the ancient non-Germanic Prussians (as opposed to the modern Germanic Prussians), are people of the ethnic and linguistic group known as "Baltic", definitely not Slavic. Poles, Czechs, Russians, Ukrainians, Slovaks, Slovenians, Croats, Ukrainians, Belorusians, Bulgarians, Kashubes, Wends, Sorbs, Ruthenians, for example, are Slavs. Among other Central European people who are not Slavs are Hungarians, Finns, Estonians, and of course, Germans. And as far as Slavs being lower on the social pecking order than other peoples, that's only an opinion. Definitely not shared by many Poles, especially, most of whom are extremely proud of their Slavic heritage. Ed Richter ----- Original Message ----- From: "jetski" <jetski@grics.net> To: <prussia-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] Slavic DNA > Your problem is not as unique as you might think especially when people have > had to come to grips with being slavic or not. In many circles throughout > the world, being slavic equates to being a second class person, which of > course is wrong. This idea is offensive to all Polish people and to > Russians and to those who are part of eastern Europe. > > Germans had a real problems with Slavic people, as did the Prussians, they > too being Germanic, heneforth your relatives claimed Prussian or German to > give them a higher standing in the world. This issue is something akin to > white verses black. > Lithuania people are for the most part slavic as well, and they also have a > large Jewish contingent. > > The Three Stooges were Lituania Jews. Charles Bronson was Slavic. Thrown > in the mix of all this are the gypies. Ule Brenner was gypy or as their > race is properly known as ROM. > > When people migrated they saw a chance to change their lives for what they > felt would be for the betterment of themselves and their offspring. This is > another reason why so many of (the old ones) remained silent. They chose to > remain silent to change the past. > > > as for those German speaking people, I am not sure, other than the Tutonic > Knights brought Christianity to the Germanic tribes and the Tutonic Knights > were Germans who worked for the Catholic Church. > > I hope I haven't run on to the point of boring anyone, but I have always > found this subject of great interest, especially since my people come from > that area. It becomes very personal. > > Bill Hoeft > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "R. Lipprandt" <rloss@bellsouth.net> > To: <prussia-roots@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 7:39 AM > Subject: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] Slavic DNA > > > > Is this from the same group of individuals that will register your DNA (In > > Phoenix, AZ, I believe) in regards to linking to ancestors etc.?? Forgive > > me as I do not have the name of the DNA group on hand. > > > > The reason for my question is my mothers family (Obschernings) migrated > > from > > Litauen (Lithuania) to Ostpreussen (East Prussia) due to religious > > freedoms. > > My research of the surname Obschernings entomology has it as partly > > Russian > > and Slavic was also mentioned. > > > > But... when my mother was still alive, she would not hear of her ancestors > > being anything other than Prussian and after 1871, as German! > > > > Also read at one time that the original ethnic Prussians (before > > Christianization were linked to Lithuanians and Northern Pole's) were run > > over by a band of Germanic speaking people, who later became the crusaders > > and declared themselves as Prussians. Not sure just how true that is or > > the > > exact sequence of events. > > > > Thank you Bill, I do appreciate the Slavic DNA answer. > > > > Regards, Rollo+~~ > > ==================== > > > > Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] Slavic DNA > > > > > >> Well, in its simplest form, all Slavic people contain a certain piece > >> of > >> DNA marker in their make up that people from other races do not. > >> > >> The people that study DNA can't explain why Slavic's DNA is different, > >> but > >> they are, and that is what makes Slavic people a race as opposed to being > >> just a group of people. > >> > >> Here is the same explanation in technical terms. > >> Two main subgroups of Haplogroup I (Y-DNA) are I-M253/I-M307/I-P30/I-P40 > >> which has highest frequency in Scandinavia, Iceland, and northwest > >> Europe. > >> The other is I-S31 which includes I-P37.2, which is the most common form > >> in > >> the Balkans and Sardinia, and I-S23/I-S30/I-S32/I-S33, which reaches its > >> highest frequency along the northwest coast of continental Europe. > >> > >> I hope this may help your search. Bill Heoft > >> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.11/838 - Release Date: 6/7/2007 > > 2:21 PM > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Chuck: Regarding your questions, there is no short, concise answer. If Seeburg Catholic records don't start until 1876, it is a good possibility the town was part of another parish prior to 1876. As for German church books being returned to their original parishes in Poland, most German parishes in Poland no longer exist. The books remain deposited in various archives. There are German books as well as Polish books in Polish archives but the main repository for protestant records, I believe is the Evangelical Church archive in Berlin. During the war there was no one place the books were taken to. Some were even hidden in salt mines. Many were lost or destroyed. I'm sure there are other listers out there who probably have more precise knowledge. I'm just basing my answer on my own experiences and readings. Sheila K.

Hello I have an ancestor who arrived in Australia aboard the "Daniel Ross" on 27 April 1855 departed Hamburg. The "Daniel Ross" passenger list lists a "Antoni Mella", however all records in Australia refer to him as Antoni Melzer Became A/an Citizen 11 Jan 1872; stated 43yrs old, & born ?Hesobists, Central Prussia. I have been at a 'dead end' now for several years. I can not even seem to be able to find where Central Prussia was/is. I thought if I found the area then I maybe able to work out the town name. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Margaret

If any of the members of this list live in the Southern Wisconsin, north Western Illinois, or North Eastern Iowa, you might be able to listen to my radio program about history. I am on every Saturday morning, 8: 8:30 on 100.3 FM Maybe one day soon I can do a program about our Prussian/Polish roots. eh, by golly Bill Hoeft

---- prussia-roots-request@rootsweb.com wrote: unsubscribe > ***IMPORTANT*** > When replying to a digest message, DO NOT just hit Reply (which will send the entire digest back to the list). Remove all text (the rest of the digest) leaving only the specific message to which you are replying. > > Also IMPORTANT, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. > > Failure to do so will result in a change of your subscription from digest to single message mode. > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Slavic DNA (annwicki@aol.com) > 2. Re: Schiffelbein ? Caroline Ziebell (101heath) > 3. Re: Johann Nicholas Fuchs (Karl Roussin) > 4. Research Questions In East Prussia (Chuck & Grace Glass) > 5. women alone (Carol M. Duff) > 6. Re: New to list (Ann Bradford) > 7. Re: Research Questions In East Prussia (gensearcher@att.net) > 8. Re: Johann Nicholas Fuchs (dgamal@aol.com) > 9. German - Polish name changes (R. Lipprandt) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:44:58 -0400 > From: annwicki@aol.com > Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] Slavic DNA > To: prussia-roots@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <8C978037BFCAB61-1AE0-E5FE@WEBMAIL-MA05.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Bill: > > I find your emails of great interest.? When I read them I feel like I in school.? Love it. > > Ann > > > ? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jetski <jetski@grics.net> > To: prussia-roots@rootsweb.com > Sent: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 10:44 am > Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] Slavic DNA > > > > Your problem is not as unique as you might think especially when people have > ad to come to grips with being slavic or not. In many circles throughout > he world, being slavic equates to being a second class person, which of > ourse is wrong. This idea is offensive to all Polish people and to > ussians and to those who are part of eastern Europe. > Germans had a real problems with Slavic people, as did the Prussians, they > oo being Germanic, heneforth your relatives claimed Prussian or German to > ive them a higher standing in the world. This issue is something akin to > hite verses black. > ithuania people are for the most part slavic as well, and they also have a > arge Jewish contingent. > The Three Stooges were Lituania Jews. Charles Bronson was Slavic. Thrown > n the mix of all this are the gypies. Ule Brenner was gypy or as their > ace is properly known as ROM. > When people migrated they saw a chance to change their lives for what they > elt would be for the betterment of themselves and their offspring. This is > nother reason why so many of (the old ones) remained silent. They chose to > emain silent to change the past. > > s for those German speaking people, I am not sure, other than the Tutonic > nights brought Christianity to the Germanic tribes and the Tutonic Knights > ere Germans who worked for the Catholic Church. > I hope I haven't run on to the point of boring anyone, but I have always > ound this subject of great interest, especially since my people come from > hat area. It becomes very personal. > Bill Hoeft > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 09:59:00 -0700 > From: 101heath <101heath@comcast.net> > Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] Schiffelbein ? Caroline Ziebell > To: prussia-roots@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <5B83CE83-5CA4-423B-8E1C-943437837A7C@comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > Didn't think that small phrase would cause a stir. What I meant was > my Ziebell family would not have allowed her to...not that the ship > wouldn't allow itl! > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 12:28:28 -0500 > From: "Karl Roussin" <kroussin@fidnet.com> > Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] Johann Nicholas Fuchs > To: <prussia-roots@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <003201c7a9f2$6e7e4fe0$8588fb40@kroussin> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Ellie > If You search for some records in the U.S.A. , then check out the link > > http://www.loricase.com/CDs/cdlist.html > > They want You to use Their FFI ( Family Finders Index ) section , before > You e-mail a volunteer for a free lookup. > > Note ; there are a lot of CDs info in that site , so after You check out > the FFI , check ALL of the CDs for the info that You need > > Karl Roussin > ==================================== > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ellie Depew" <SraEllie@carolina.rr.com> > To: <prussia-roots@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 12:38 PM > Subject: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] Johann Nicholas Fuchs > > > > Johann Nicholas Fuchs, son of Frederick Adam Fuchs, was born Aug. 28, > > 1821, and emigrated to New York via the ship /Florida /in June 1842. In > > 1850, he was living in Milwaukee--the census records him as John--with > > his wife Margaret (born 1826) and three children, born 1845-1849 in New > > York. By 1860, he had married Catherine Koch (born Dec 27 1838). Their > > oldest child was born Sep. 17, 1862. > > > > Johann's naturalization papers record him as renouncing allegiance to > > King Ludwig of Prussia. The only Frederick Adam Fuchs I have been able > > to find was born in Eckweiler, Prussia, in 1780. Wisconsin records and > > church records yielded only his father's name. The LDS church records > > for that site stop at 1800, so I have been unable to verify that this is > > our family. Still, the naming patterns fit. > > > > All this is prelude to my questions: > > 1. Where does New York store its marriage records for the years > > 1842-1845? > > 2. If the city of Milwaukee shows no marriage records for John & > > Catherine, is there a state repository for Wisconsin > > marriages during the 1850's? (I realize that it is possible that they > > married in Northern Illinois or Indiana.) > > 3. How does one find a reliable genealogist in Germany to verify > > the church records I have found through FamilySearch? Or > > is there another source I may have missed? > > > > I am aware that, if I can find the marriage records I need, they may > > well yield the information I seek, and I am hoping that such is the > > case. However, I have been stonewalled so often with Johann that I'm > > asking the Prussia question as well. > > > > Ellie Depew > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 10:42:31 -0500 > From: "Chuck & Grace Glass" <cgglass@sbcglobal.net> > Subject: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] Research Questions In East Prussia > To: <prussia-roots@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <200706081729.l58HTRGp018541@mail.rootsweb.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I hope I don't lose any readers of this e-mail due to its length. I'll > highlight my main questions in bullet points at the end. > > > > My focus is in finding the birth record and parents of my great-great > grandmother, Maria Louisa Teddick, born June 29, 1818. I have had very good > success researching her husband Hugo Glass's ancestors through the LDS > church records of Braunsberg, Ostpreussen, but I'm stuck on my Teddick, > Tidig, Theidich, Tydyck, Theidigk etc family. My great-grandfather Franz > Glass, was born April 10, 1849 in Gross Kronau (now Kronowo, Poland) and his > birth is registered at Gross Lemkendorf (now Lamkowo, Poland), but, none of > his mother's family appears in the church records. One of the god parents > on his christening certificate is a Franz Tydyck and I wonder if that may > have been Maria Louisa's brother. I have found another researcher who has > conducted casual research of Tydick families in the same area and he found > that in Kiwitten there is a marriage record for 33-year-old Franz Thiedigk > who married a Theresia Grunert in 1854. Again, this could be the same Franz > Tydyck and puts him at the right age to be Maria Louisa's brother. The > marriage record indicates that this Franz Thiedigk originated from Lokau, a > small village that belonged to the parish of Seeburg, and I'm told that > Lokau is only 10 km from Gross Lemkendorf. > > > > Again, there are no baptismal records for Maria Louisa in Kiwitten for the > years before and after her birth (June 29, 1818) and the Catholic records > for Seeburg only cover the years 1876-1947. Protestant records for that > town begin only in 1824, but I have ordered the film and will see if a > marriage record for Maria Louisa and her husband Hugo Glass exists. > > She, Hugo and their son Franz Glass left Germany via Hamburg, on September > 2, 1850 and arrived in Galveston, Texas on November 13, 1850. I have > searched through LDS films for birth records in many parishes in East > Prussia and am now honing in on the Gross Lemkendorf / Seeburg / Kiwitten > area in general as my focus. > > > > Now for my questions: > > > > 1. One of the ladies and the local LDS library tells me many Polish > churches refused to allow their records to be filmed. Is there any way to > find if Catholic records for places such as Seeburg exist but for some > reason the LDS church may never have filmed them? If so, how would I find > where they are and if it's possible to have someone research them? Is there > a Polish church book repository and would they have German records? > 2. I believe that for the most part, many of the East and West Prussian > church records were taken to a Catholic church book archive in Munich as the > Russians were advancing into the area during WW II. The Tydyck researcher I > mentioned earlier says he believes German church records are being > repatriated to their original parishes now in Poland. If this is true, is > there a way to look up the Polish parishes to find their addresses? Were > Protestant church records also evacuated from that territory as the Catholic > church records were and do we know where they may have been reposted? > 3. In the LDS locality index, I find references for church records, and > underneath where I usually find whether they are Katholiche or Evangelische, > instead it will say, for instance, "Preussen Armee, Dragoner Regiment 06" > and list birth, marriage and death records. What exactly is this? Were > these churches on Prussian army bases for families to register their births > and such? > > > > I will be happy to receive any suggestions at all that any of you may have. > Thank you all for your help. > > > > Chuck Glass > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:47:51 -0700 > From: "Carol M. Duff" <duffc@redwing.net> > Subject: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] women alone > To: prussia-roots@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <4669B267.7070505@redwing.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > Julia, > My great-grandmother came alone with the children. > My grandmother and her siblings came alone with her grandmother. > Many females in my family came alone. > Sometimes there was a cousin on the same ship. > Sometimes there were already family here...cousins, etc. > Carol > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 14:33:19 -0400 > From: Ann Bradford <genie@iwaynet.net> > Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] New to list > To: prussia-roots@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <4669A0EF.8030807@iwaynet.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Arthur Strubel wrote: > > >Hi, I am new to this list. > >My Surnames are STRUBEL,FURI-FUHRY,HUMMEL,HOPSON,BURG,FRUECHTE AND LAMPING. > >Of these ancestors-LAMPING and FRUECHTE are from Prussia. > >My great grandfather Heinrich FRUECHTE 1818-1881 > > Was from Leeden, Prussia, and my great grandmother-Maria LAMPING 1829-1876 was from Lotte. > > > >Both died in St. Louis, Missouri. > >If anybody has any information on these two-your help would be appreciated. > > Thanks, Art > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > Hello Arthur, > I saw your e-mail mentioning the Lamping surname. I called my > friend Ed Lamping & he does have some history of his Lamping family. He > lives in Powell, OH. His e-mail is lamplites@aol.com. He said he'd > look for your e-mail > Ann Bradford > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 20:22:47 +0000 > From: gensearcher@att.net > Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] Research Questions In East Prussia > To: prussia-roots@rootsweb.com, <prussia-roots@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: > <060820072022.17416.4669BA960001545E0000440821603760219D0A080C9D0E0A9C020A09@att.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain > > Chuck: Regarding your questions, there is no short, concise answer. If Seeburg Catholic records don't start until 1876, it is a good possibility the town was part of another parish prior to 1876. As for German church books being returned to their original parishes in Poland, most German parishes in Poland no longer exist. The books remain deposited in various archives. There are German books as well as Polish books in Polish archives but the main repository for protestant records, I believe is the Evangelical Church archive in Berlin. During the war there was no one place the books were taken to. Some were even hidden in salt mines. Many were lost or destroyed. I'm sure there are other listers out there who probably have more precise knowledge. I'm just basing my answer on my own experiences and readings. Sheila K. > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 16:23:37 -0400 > From: dgamal@aol.com > Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] Johann Nicholas Fuchs > To: prussia-roots@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <8C9782207F0CDDE-1194-10079@webmail-db10.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Ellie,? for pre-1907 records, try the Wisconsin Historical Society on line at? www.wisconsinhistory.org > > If you don't find anything under their genealogy records, I also have the name of a paid researcher that I have used for finding records in SE Wisconsin. > > Della Gamalski,? also with E. Prussian and Polish relatives that I can not find. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ellie Depew <SraEllie@carolina.rr.com> > To: prussia-roots@rootsweb.com > Sent: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 1:38 pm > Subject: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] Johann Nicholas Fuchs > > > > Johann Nicholas Fuchs, son of Frederick Adam Fuchs, was born Aug. 28, > 821, and emigrated to New York via the ship /Florida /in June 1842. In > 850, he was living in Milwaukee--the census records him as John--with > is wife Margaret (born 1826) and three children, born 1845-1849 in New > ork. By 1860, he had married Catherine Koch (born Dec 27 1838). Their > ldest child was born Sep. 17, 1862. > Johann's naturalization papers record him as renouncing allegiance to > ing Ludwig of Prussia. The only Frederick Adam Fuchs I have been able > o find was born in Eckweiler, Prussia, in 1780. Wisconsin records and > hurch records yielded only his father's name. The LDS church records > or that site stop at 1800, so I have been unable to verify that this is > ur family. Still, the naming patterns fit. > All this is prelude to my questions: > 1. Where does New York store its marriage records for the years > 842-1845? > 2. If the city of Milwaukee shows no marriage records for John & > atherine, is there a state repository for Wisconsin > arriages during the 1850's? (I realize that it is possible that they > arried in Northern Illinois or Indiana.) > 3. How does one find a reliable genealogist in Germany to verify > he church records I have found through FamilySearch? Or > s there another source I may have missed? > I am aware that, if I can find the marriage records I need, they may > ell yield the information I seek, and I am hoping that such is the > ase. However, I have been stonewalled so often with Johann that I'm > sking the Prussia question as well. > Ellie Depew > > ------------------------------ > o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com > ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of > he message > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 17:51:25 -0400 > From: "R. Lipprandt" <rloss@bellsouth.net> > Subject: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] German - Polish name changes > To: <prussia-roots@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <003101c7aa17$291c9fe0$0302a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > The following may be of interest to some of you: > > Script, Old German (view only) > http://www.tr62.de/script/default.html > > Town Locators - Name Changes, German to Polish > http://www.atsnotes.com/other/gerpol.html > > The name city/village name changes above does not include the part of > Ostpreussen (East Prussia) that is now the Russian Oblast (??) Got another > link for those changes somewhere... > > Carol... is the Volhynia that you mentioned part of the Germans to Russia > (Ukraine) and then back to Germany or the US?? > > Somewhere in my files, I have an online group that hold many assets and > information sources of the people that migrated to America and settled in > the heartland North to Canada (Russian Germans). Will send that along when > I can find it... again! > > Regards, Rollo+~~ > =============== > > Subject: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] German only > > > > Rollo, > > My grandmother's family also would not admit to anything other that > > German and living in Prussia, until the St. Petersburg archives > > identified births in Volhynia. When I asked them about the first birth > > record that I found, they said, "No, our family has not lived outside of > > Prussia." Finally, after the 3rd birth record they admitted that it > > truly was their family. My grandmother, Minna Schumann, supposedly was > > born in 1892 in Eichfier, West Prussia. I still have not found her > > birth record, but then SLC does not have all the birth records from > > there. I realize also that Minna may not be the recorded name as another > > grandmother, Amelia, was found to have the birth name of Regina > > Wilhelmine Emelie. Carol > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the PRUSSIA-ROOTS list administrator, send an email to > PRUSSIA-ROOTS-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the PRUSSIA-ROOTS mailing list, send an email to PRUSSIA-ROOTS@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of PRUSSIA-ROOTS Digest, Vol 2, Issue 185 > *********************************************

For what it's worth... The Prussians were not Germanic nor Slavic, and, like the Kashubians, they resisted the intruding Germans. Rather, the Pruzzen (Prusai) were a Baltic Tribe -- related to the Latvians and Lithuanians. When the Poles began to invade the area of the Pruzzen tribe around 992, the tribes fought back. Considered a "heathen race," the German Teutonic Knights were sent in to the area in 1226 to conquer/convert the Pruzzen or eject them from the land. The indigenous Baltic Pruzzen tribe occupied the area of what became East Prussia. From time to time they fought the Poles and Teutonic Knights but managed to stand their ground. It's interesting that the Pruzzen tribe united with the Kashubian tribe to fight the Knights. For a time they both regained and kept their land, but the Knights were bringing in German settlers from the west. By the early 1300s, many new villages were established and all were under German Law. The Kaszubi and Pruzzen tribes resisted Germanization, but the Kaszubians retained their identity and the Pruzzen did not. In time, some Pruzzen's fled to the east or south. Those who stayed and were not annihilated began to merge with the German settlers brought in by the Knights. By 1600, the old Baltic Pruzzen language became extinct. Prussian surnames differ greatly from the German surnames of other more German ethnic areas. Some Prussian names are Slavic in their derivation. Place or field names of Baltic Pruzzen origin have been found father west in the medieval Duchy of East Pomerania, etc., the heart of which became Kashubia, so it is believed the Pruzzen moved around a bit. Karen B. Whitmer ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

In the case of my g-g-grandmother. Her maiden name was Koch. For years, various members of my Hamann family swore on their ancestors graves (well, maybe not quite so dramatic) that her maiden name was Huhn... I finally found her future husband (Hamann) on the same manifest with someone that turned out to be neighbors in Saxony and ended up also being neighbors in Wisconsin. Well, the g-g-grandmothers name was smack in the middle of the seven listed Huhn's and the person that saw it on the microfilm then stamped in in stone that her maiden name was Huhn, but they could not make a connection... with good reason! The point I am trying to make is that there were over 300 soles on that ship and basically, they were scattered all over the manifest (no alphabetical order) and she was a single female traveling with male neighbors who were watching out for her during the voyage and afterwards to Wisconsin. Regards, Rollo+~~ ============= Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] Schiffelbein ? Caroline Ziebell > Is that true? My GM didn't come with my GF, but they married soon after he > arrived in 1891. I thought that (if I can figure which of many choices I > have for her surname) that I'd be looking for a singe unaccompanied female > traveler OR a part of a family. I'm sure I've seen what appear to be > single > women listed in the passenger lists....Julia =============== > > "----Original Message Follows---- > From: 101heath <101heath@comcast.net> > > ...I do believe the the Bertha M. Ziebell, daughter of Caroline Ziebell > would not have been allowed to take ship passage alone as a single > woman..." >

You are most welcome... ================= Subject: Re: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] F's & T's, Sutterlin/Suetterlin Schrift > Rollo, thanks so much for this link. I just received photocopies of > church > records which I believe may be written in Suetterlin. Someone translated > the > names and dates but nothing more. The challenge with German is not just > the > handwriting but also the translation from German to English! > > Again, thanks for taking the time to send this link. > > Nancy M. > My German family: Meinzen, Gerner, Froman > > >> http://www.suetterlinschrift.de/Englisch/Sutterlin.htm >>

The following may be of interest to some of you: Script, Old German (view only) http://www.tr62.de/script/default.html Town Locators - Name Changes, German to Polish http://www.atsnotes.com/other/gerpol.html The name city/village name changes above does not include the part of Ostpreussen (East Prussia) that is now the Russian Oblast (??) Got another link for those changes somewhere... Carol... is the Volhynia that you mentioned part of the Germans to Russia (Ukraine) and then back to Germany or the US?? Somewhere in my files, I have an online group that hold many assets and information sources of the people that migrated to America and settled in the heartland North to Canada (Russian Germans). Will send that along when I can find it... again! Regards, Rollo+~~ =============== Subject: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] German only > Rollo, > My grandmother's family also would not admit to anything other that > German and living in Prussia, until the St. Petersburg archives > identified births in Volhynia. When I asked them about the first birth > record that I found, they said, "No, our family has not lived outside of > Prussia." Finally, after the 3rd birth record they admitted that it > truly was their family. My grandmother, Minna Schumann, supposedly was > born in 1892 in Eichfier, West Prussia. I still have not found her > birth record, but then SLC does not have all the birth records from > there. I realize also that Minna may not be the recorded name as another > grandmother, Amelia, was found to have the birth name of Regina > Wilhelmine Emelie. Carol >

Is that true? My GM didn't come with my GF, but they married soon after he arrived in 1891. I thought that (if I can figure which of many choices I have for her surname) that I'd be looking for a singe unaccompanied female traveler OR a part of a family. I'm sure I've seen what appear to be single women listed in the passenger lists....Julia "----Original Message Follows---- From: 101heath <101heath@comcast.net> ...I do believe the the Bertha M. Ziebell, daughter of Caroline Ziebell would not have been allowed to take ship passage alone as a single woman..." _________________________________________________________________ Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm

Ellie,  for pre-1907 records, try the Wisconsin Historical Society on line at  www.wisconsinhistory.org If you don't find anything under their genealogy records, I also have the name of a paid researcher that I have used for finding records in SE Wisconsin. Della Gamalski,  also with E. Prussian and Polish relatives that I can not find. -----Original Message----- From: Ellie Depew <SraEllie@carolina.rr.com> To: prussia-roots@rootsweb.com Sent: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 1:38 pm Subject: [PRUSSIA-ROOTS] Johann Nicholas Fuchs Johann Nicholas Fuchs, son of Frederick Adam Fuchs, was born Aug. 28, 821, and emigrated to New York via the ship /Florida /in June 1842. In 850, he was living in Milwaukee--the census records him as John--with is wife Margaret (born 1826) and three children, born 1845-1849 in New ork. By 1860, he had married Catherine Koch (born Dec 27 1838). Their ldest child was born Sep. 17, 1862. Johann's naturalization papers record him as renouncing allegiance to ing Ludwig of Prussia. The only Frederick Adam Fuchs I have been able o find was born in Eckweiler, Prussia, in 1780. Wisconsin records and hurch records yielded only his father's name. The LDS church records or that site stop at 1800, so I have been unable to verify that this is ur family. Still, the naming patterns fit. All this is prelude to my questions: 1. Where does New York store its marriage records for the years 842-1845? 2. If the city of Milwaukee shows no marriage records for John & atherine, is there a state repository for Wisconsin arriages during the 1850's? (I realize that it is possible that they arried in Northern Illinois or Indiana.) 3. How does one find a reliable genealogist in Germany to verify he church records I have found through FamilySearch? Or s there another source I may have missed? I am aware that, if I can find the marriage records I need, they may ell yield the information I seek, and I am hoping that such is the ase. However, I have been stonewalled so often with Johann that I'm sking the Prussia question as well. Ellie Depew ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Arthur Strubel wrote: >Hi, I am new to this list. >My Surnames are STRUBEL,FURI-FUHRY,HUMMEL,HOPSON,BURG,FRUECHTE AND LAMPING. >Of these ancestors-LAMPING and FRUECHTE are from Prussia. >My great grandfather Heinrich FRUECHTE 1818-1881 > Was from Leeden, Prussia, and my great grandmother-Maria LAMPING 1829-1876 was from Lotte. > >Both died in St. Louis, Missouri. >If anybody has any information on these two-your help would be appreciated. > Thanks, Art > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRUSSIA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > Hello Arthur, I saw your e-mail mentioning the Lamping surname. I called my friend Ed Lamping & he does have some history of his Lamping family. He lives in Powell, OH. His e-mail is lamplites@aol.com. He said he'd look for your e-mail Ann Bradford