darlene, Did Maria use Amélia at any time? They dropped Drumond? Well that is a name with all lot of history.  If you go into the files of our list you will find a lot written about this. Gaspar is not really a surname. 1883 is the time of the passport request by Gaspar Drumond. I think that these are the Gapar Drumond you are looking for. From Porto Santo, I believe it is almost 95% correct. HELP! What do others think? I don't think that Manuel António Fernandes is from Porto Santo. I don't think he was from Portugal, meaning the mainland in Europe.That is not a name from Porto Santo , and the likely-hood of a Portuguese marrying a Madeiran at this time is remote. This is my bias.That is 90% correct. Both Marias were born in 1863. It seems is September. I know that there are a lot of Marias, but in Porto Santo only one born to a Gaspar Drumond. There is also baptism certificates for Efigénia. There the father is listed as manuel Gaspar do ó and Maria Pestana. It is a name change but nothing unusual.  His father was Gaspar do ó. For Justiniano he is named Manuel gaspar Drumond but mother is Maria Pestana Drumond and last for Pedro she is known as Maria da Piedade Vasconcelos. Once again there is  nothing here. Her mother was a Vasconcelos. This is what makes Madeiran genealogy fun! Anyway, do these children show up anywhere in Hawaii? Look at this one: There is a passport request for Hawaii  from a Manuel Fernandes in 1883. But what is interesting is that his father was a António Fernandes married to Felisberta da Luz (da Luz is not a surname- means light). So it might make sense that he named his son after him. If we ever found out that a grandparent from either side was a Manuel- bingo! We are getting there. One minor challenge; he was 45 but single! Any of this info coincides with anything you know? Let's hear what others will say, but I am suggesting I have got your maternal side of this correct.   José Fernandes ________________________________ From: Dar Creuzer <dar.creuzer@gmail.com> To: JOSE FERNANDES <jose.fernandes@rogers.com>; prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 11:03:37 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Manuel Antonio Fernandes or Fernandez Jose: Thank you for your response. First of all Manuel Antonio Fernandes - the only information I have found was on the 1900 census in Honolulu Hawaii with wife and family, born in Portugal. Doesn't say anything more. I have looked for a death record but didn't find one and looked on line for an obituary in the newspaper but also didn't find one.I have looked in passport records from Porto Santo and found several but not knowing any other information about him don't know which or if any are him. In Hawaii they lived at 1695 Beretania St. for many years. My mother remembers they living on the house in the back of the property and her grandmother Mary living in the front house at that address.   The family you have below is the right family. they dropped the Drummond name when they went to Hawaii. so they are listed in the 1900 census as Manuel and Mary Gaspar( she went by Mary sometimes and Maria sometimes) my grandmother Olympia Fernandez is listed with them. It also says that both Manuel and Maria came to Hawaii in 1883. I don't know if they met on the voyage or met after getting to Hawaii.   Thank you for any help.Darlene On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 8:57 AM, JOSE FERNANDES <jose.fernandes@rogers.com> wrote: Darlene, > >I am not an expert on Hawaii, but there are others who have done a lot of work on Madeirans in Hawaii on the list. while we wait for their assistance, let's start: > >Was Manuel António Fernandes born in Portugal or Madeira or even in the Azores? This is an essential question for further research. Fernandes in Madeira are many, and if you include Portugal, well forget it! > >Now Porto Santo is a very small island. today it has no more than 4,500 inhabitants. The chances of missing something is very small. > >My search  on the name you gave us provides the following: >There is no name Drumond Gaspar  but there is a Gaspar Drumond in Porto Santo. Only one. His name is Manuel Gaspar Drumond who marries a Dona Maria Pestana de Vasconcelos in 1862. Dona in this case, a sign of nobility, means that she at least thought she came from important families. It is like "lady". It was overdone in Porto Santo and also in Madeira. > >So is it Maria Amélia (Pestana)? Gaspar Drumond ? > >Now Manuel requested a passport in 1883. He is 42 at the time. He has children: Maria Pestana 20, Efigénia 14, Cecilia 11, Justiniano 8, Pedro 4. The passport file indicates that he is going to a foreign country ?. It is possible that the Sandwich Islands/Hawaii was at this time a diplomatic question. the file does not say if he is taking his family or when the family joined him but there is no request for his wife at a later date. At leas I haven't found it. > >Manuel's parents are Gaspar do ó Drumond and Joana de Vasconcelos. D. Maria Pestana de Vasconcelos's parents are João Pestana de Vaconcelos and D. Norberta Margarida da Camara (I suspect that here is the reason for the Dona). > >Maria Amélia Pestana Drumond was born on September 9, 1863. > >Is this your ancestor? Let's see if any of this info leads to something. In my opinion this is very close if not the one. >Well? > >  >José Fernandes > > >________________________________ > From: Dar Creuzer <dar.creuzer@gmail.com> >To: PRT-MADEIRA@rootsweb.com >Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 12:09:26 AM >Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Manuel Antonio Fernandes or Fernandez > > >I am having trouble finding any information on my great grandfather Manuel >Antonio Fernandez /Fernandes) he was born in Portugal, I don't know where , >in 1845. He ended up in Hawaii and married Maria Amelia Drummond Gaspar on >the big island of Hawaii before 1885 when their first child was born. They >had the following children. Olympia, Gertrude, William, Manuel, Mary, John, >Isabella. Manuel and Maria lived in Honolulu Hawaii where most of their >children were born. at least two children were born in Kau Hawaii- Gertrude >and Manuel. I don't know when he died but think it was before 1910, as he >was in 1900 census but not in 1910 census with his wife. Maria died in >Honolulu Oct. 29, 1946 buried in Kaimuki, Honolulu, Hawaii.  Marie was born >9-1-1863 Porto Santo, Maderia Portugal. >I am really wanting to know when he died in Hawaii and who his parents >were. I have looked in ARM and find a few Manuel Fernandes but can't find >anything else. Does anyone have any information on this Manuel or his >family? >I live in Wisconsin and can't go to Hawaii to research this family. >thank you very much, Darlene Alling Creuzer > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >