Hello Jose, I, too, am assuming that Darlene's Manuel Antonio Fernandes is named only as Manuel Fernendes in the ARM passport database. I, too, am inclined to believe that he was the single Manuel Fernandes, aged 45 in 1883 from Ponta do Sol whose father was named Antonio (mother Felisberta), as you indicated. However, since I have not been able to locate him in the 1900 census (and therefore gain some sort of indication as to his age beyond Darlene's statement that he was born 1845) I can not decide if he is the afore mentioned Manuel Fernandes who was actually born in 1838 OR if he wasn't the other Manuel Fernandes named in the 1883 passport database from Ponta Delgada, son of Antonio Fernandes Aleixo and Maria Pereira, who was baptized in 1857. Being that Darlene states that he appears to have passed away prior to 1910, he may very well have been the older Manuel Fernandes. But it seems a bit odd to me that Maria Emilia Drummond Gaspar would marry a man who was actually older than her own father - certainly not unheard of but somewhat unusual. And since you asked, I am in California. My "Madeiran connections" are through Manuel Rodrigues Castanho (b. 1848) & Maria de Jesus Fernandes da Camara (b. 1853) of Arco da Calheta; Manuel da Silva (b. 1852) & Rita Augusts de Jesus Pinto (b. 1860) who married in Sao Martinho (passport application indicates parish Camara de Lobos); also Paulino Franca (b. 1861) & Balbina da Conceicao Ferraz (b. 1859) of Ponta Delgada, Madeira; and Jose Gomes Robello (b. 1862) & Maria de Jesus Rosa (b. abt 1861) of Madaleno do Mar - all of whom left Madeira for the Hawaiian Islands in the 1880s. Cheers, Pamela -----Original Message----- From: JOSE FERNANDES <jose.fernandes@rogers.com> To: prt-madeira <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Mon, May 7, 2012 7:03 pm Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Manuel Antonio Fernandes or Fernandez Pamela his is a great lead. I suspect that you won't find a Manuel António Fernandes ut a Manuel Fernandes as you mentioned before is a good possibility. Even nowadays, I dropped the António for most José have second name. Mine happens to be António after my maternal grandfather. here is a lot of new research on the Sandwich/Hawaii islands. Some of it in adeira. There is a member of the list (where are you?) Thomas de Freitas, among thers, who has done a lot of search in the Archives about his family in Hawaii. ou consulted the census, do we have any of the children's name in there? osé Fernandes _______________________________ From: Pamela <buckspazz@aol.com> o: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com ent: Monday, May 7, 2012 6:53:50 PM ubject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Manuel Antonio Fernandes or Fernandez Hello Darlene, I don't know if you are aware of the Island Routes group [ islandroutes@googlegroups.com . They specialize in Portuguese/Madeiran/Azorean migration to Hawaii. I oined that group and inquired about a few potential burials at a small ortuguese cemetery in Honolulu. Someone (Dan) from the Portuguese Genealogical Historical Society of Hawaii responded and ended up mailing me a large packet f information regarding several of my Madeiran Hawaiians. You may want to ontact them with your query regarding your great grandfather, Manuel Antonio ernandes. Perhaps they have a death or burial record. Kindest regards, amela -----Original Message----- rom: Dar Creuzer <dar.creuzer@gmail.com> o: JOSE FERNANDES <jose.fernandes@rogers.com>; prt-madeira <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> ent: Mon, May 7, 2012 8:27 am ubject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Manuel Antonio Fernandes or Fernandez ose: Thank you for your response. First of all Manuel Antonio Fernandes - e only information I have found was on the 1900 census in Honolulu Hawaii th wife and family, born in Portugal. Doesn't say anything more. I have oked for a death record but didn't find one and looked on line for an ituary in the newspaper but also didn't find one.I have looked in ssport records from Porto Santo and found several but not knowing any her information about him don't know which or if any are him. In Hawaii ey lived at 1695 Beretania St. for many years. My mother remembers they ving on the house in the back of the property and her grandmother ry living in the front house at that address. he family you have below is the right family. they dropped the Drummond me when they went to Hawaii. so they are listed in the 1900 census as nuel and Mary Gaspar( she went by Mary sometimes and Maria sometimes) my andmother Olympia Fernandez is listed with them. It also says that both nuel and Maria came to Hawaii in 1883. I don't know if they met on the yage or met after getting to Hawaii. hank you for any help.Darlene n Mon, May 7, 2012 at 8:57 AM, JOSE FERNANDES <jose.fernandes@rogers.com>wrote: Darlene, I am not an expert on Hawaii, but there are others who have done a lot of ork on Madeirans in Hawaii on the list. while we wait for their ssistance, let's start: Was Manuel António Fernandes born in Portugal or Madeira or even in the zores? This is an essential question for further research. Fernandes in adeira are many, and if you include Portugal, well forget it! Now Porto Santo is a very small island. today it has no more than ,500 inhabitants. The chances of missing something is very small. My search on the name you gave us provides the following: here is no name Drumond Gaspar but there is a Gaspar Drumond in Porto anto. Only one. His name is Manuel Gaspar Drumond who marries a Dona Maria estana de Vasconcelos in 1862. Dona in this case, a sign of nobility, eans that she at least thought she came from important families. It is ike "lady". It was overdone in Porto Santo and also in Madeira. So is it Maria Amélia (Pestana)? Gaspar Drumond ? Now Manuel requested a passport in 1883. He is 42 at the time. He has hildren: Maria Pestana 20, Efigénia 14, Cecilia 11, Justiniano 8, Pedro 4. he passport file indicates that he is going to a foreign country ?. It is ossible that the Sandwich Islands/Hawaii was at this time a diplomatic uestion. the file does not say if he is taking his family or when the amily joined him but there is no request for his wife at a later date. At eas I haven't found it. Manuel's parents are Gaspar do ó Drumond and Joana de Vasconcelos. D. aria Pestana de Vasconcelos's parents are João Pestana de Vaconcelos and . Norberta Margarida da Camara (I suspect that here is the reason for the ona). Maria Amélia Pestana Drumond was born on September 9, 1863. Is this your ancestor? Let's see if any of this info leads to something. n my opinion this is very close if not the one. ell? osé Fernandes _______________________________ From: Dar Creuzer <dar.creuzer@gmail.com> o: PRT-MADEIRA@rootsweb.com ent: Monday, May 7, 2012 12:09:26 AM ubject: [PT-MADEIRA] Manuel Antonio Fernandes or Fernandez I am having trouble finding any information on my great grandfather Manuel ntonio Fernandez /Fernandes) he was born in Portugal, I don't know where , n 1845. He ended up in Hawaii and married Maria Amelia Drummond Gaspar on he big island of Hawaii before 1885 when their first child was born. They ad the following children. Olympia, Gertrude, William, Manuel, Mary, John, sabella. Manuel and Maria lived in Honolulu Hawaii where most of their hildren were born. at least two children were born in Kau Hawaii- Gertrude nd Manuel. I don't know when he died but think it was before 1910, as he as in 1900 census but not in 1910 census with his wife. Maria died in onolulu Oct. 29, 1946 buried in Kaimuki, Honolulu, Hawaii. Marie was born -1-1863 Porto Santo, Maderia Portugal. am really wanting to know when he died in Hawaii and who his parents ere. I have looked in ARM and find a few Manuel Fernandes but can't find nything else. Does anyone have any information on this Manuel or his amily? live in Wisconsin and can't go to Hawaii to research this family. hank you very much, Darlene Alling Creuzer ------------------------------- o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to RT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the uotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to RT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the uotes in the subject and the body of the message ----------------------------- unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of e message ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message
Pamela, My first thought was that you meant Ponta Delgada, S. Miguel, Azores. But I suspect you mean Ponta Delgada in Madeira "My" Manuel Fernandes is a bit older for Maria Amélia but |I suspect there weren't too many "madeiran|" males at the time in Hawaii. But "yours" from Ponta Delgada also has a father António, so that part is also covered and he is 26 years. it seems he dies before 1910. That would make him in his 50's. That is possible for the times. Mine would have been at least 70 in 1907. That is always possible. I think your is a better choice. Now my question was about the Drumond children. I didn't know that Darlene had already all that info. But it is nice to see all your Madeiran connections, specifically from Madalena do Mar. There is quite a legend relating to that place. I have ancestors from there in earlier time. S. Martinho is close to Camara de Lobos. It borders it in the west. José Fernandes ________________________________ From: Pamela <buckspazz@aol.com> To: jose.fernandes@rogers.com; prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 12:05:49 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Manuel Antonio Fernandes or Fernandez Hello Jose, I, too, am assuming that Darlene's Manuel Antonio Fernandes is named only as Manuel Fernendes in the ARM passport database. I, too, am inclined to believe that he was the single Manuel Fernandes, aged 45 in 1883 from Ponta do Sol whose father was named Antonio (mother Felisberta), as you indicated. However, since I have not been able to locate him in the 1900 census (and therefore gain some sort of indication as to his age beyond Darlene's statement that he was born 1845) I can not decide if he is the afore mentioned Manuel Fernandes who was actually born in 1838 OR if he wasn't the other Manuel Fernandes named in the 1883 passport database from Ponta Delgada, son of Antonio Fernandes Aleixo and Maria Pereira, who was baptized in 1857. Being that Darlene states that he appears to have passed away prior to 1910, he may very well have been the older Manuel Fernandes. But it seems a bit odd to me that Maria Emilia Drummond Gaspar would marry a man who was actually older than her own father - certainly not unheard of but somewhat unusual. And since you asked, I am in California. My "Madeiran connections" are through Manuel Rodrigues Castanho (b. 1848) & Maria de Jesus Fernandes da Camara (b. 1853) of Arco da Calheta; Manuel da Silva (b. 1852) & Rita Augusts de Jesus Pinto (b. 1860) who married in Sao Martinho (passport application indicates parish Camara de Lobos); also Paulino Franca (b. 1861) & Balbina da Conceicao Ferraz (b. 1859) of Ponta Delgada, Madeira; and Jose Gomes Robello (b. 1862) & Maria de Jesus Rosa (b. abt 1861) of Madaleno do Mar - all of whom left Madeira for the Hawaiian Islands in the 1880s. Cheers, Pamela -----Original Message----- From: JOSE FERNANDES <jose.fernandes@rogers.com> To: prt-madeira <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Mon, May 7, 2012 7:03 pm Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Manuel Antonio Fernandes or Fernandez Pamela this is a great lead. I suspect that you won't find a Manuel António Fernandes but a Manuel Fernandes as you mentioned before is a good possibility. Even nowadays, I dropped the António for most José have a second name. Mine happens to be António after my maternal grandfather. There is a lot of new research on the Sandwich/Hawaii islands. Some of it in Madeira. There is a member of the list (where are you?) Thomas de Freitas, among others, who has done a lot of search in the Archives about his family in Hawaii. You consulted the census, do we have any of the children's name in there? José Fernandes ________________________________ From: Pamela <buckspazz@aol.com> To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 6:53:50 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Manuel Antonio Fernandes or Fernandez Hello Darlene, I don't know if you are aware of the Island Routes group [ islandroutes@googlegroups.com ]. They specialize in Portuguese/Madeiran/Azorean migration to Hawaii. I joined that group and inquired about a few potential burials at a small Portuguese cemetery in Honolulu. Someone (Dan) from the Portuguese Genealogical & Historical Society of Hawaii responded and ended up mailing me a large packet of information regarding several of my Madeiran Hawaiians. You may want to contact them with your query regarding your great grandfather, Manuel Antonio Fernandes. Perhaps they have a death or burial record. Kindest regards, Pamela -----Original Message----- From: Dar Creuzer <dar.creuzer@gmail.com> To: JOSE FERNANDES <jose.fernandes@rogers.com>; prt-madeira <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Mon, May 7, 2012 8:27 am Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Manuel Antonio Fernandes or Fernandez Jose: Thank you for your response. First of all Manuel Antonio Fernandes - he only information I have found was on the 1900 census in Honolulu Hawaii ith wife and family, born in Portugal. Doesn't say anything more. I have ooked for a death record but didn't find one and looked on line for an bituary in the newspaper but also didn't find one.I have looked in assport records from Porto Santo and found several but not knowing any ther information about him don't know which or if any are him. In Hawaii hey lived at 1695 Beretania St. for many years. My mother remembers they iving on the house in the back of the property and her grandmother ary living in the front house at that address. The family you have below is the right family. they dropped the Drummond ame when they went to Hawaii. so they are listed in the 1900 census as anuel and Mary Gaspar( she went by Mary sometimes and Maria sometimes) my randmother Olympia Fernandez is listed with them. It also says that both anuel and Maria came to Hawaii in 1883. I don't know if they met on the oyage or met after getting to Hawaii. Thank you for any help.Darlene On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 8:57 AM, JOSE FERNANDES <jose.fernandes@rogers.com>wrote: > Darlene, I am not an expert on Hawaii, but there are others who have done a lot of work on Madeirans in Hawaii on the list. while we wait for their assistance, let's start: Was Manuel António Fernandes born in Portugal or Madeira or even in the Azores? This is an essential question for further research. Fernandes in Madeira are many, and if you include Portugal, well forget it! Now Porto Santo is a very small island. today it has no more than 4,500 inhabitants. The chances of missing something is very small. My search on the name you gave us provides the following: There is no name Drumond Gaspar but there is a Gaspar Drumond in Porto Santo. Only one. His name is Manuel Gaspar Drumond who marries a Dona Maria Pestana de Vasconcelos in 1862. Dona in this case, a sign of nobility, means that she at least thought she came from important families. It is like "lady". It was overdone in Porto Santo and also in Madeira. So is it Maria Amélia (Pestana)? Gaspar Drumond ? Now Manuel requested a passport in 1883. He is 42 at the time. He has children: Maria Pestana 20, Efigénia 14, Cecilia 11, Justiniano 8, Pedro 4. The passport file indicates that he is going to a foreign country ?. It is possible that the Sandwich Islands/Hawaii was at this time a diplomatic question. the file does not say if he is taking his family or when the family joined him but there is no request for his wife at a later date. At leas I haven't found it. Manuel's parents are Gaspar do ó Drumond and Joana de Vasconcelos. D. Maria Pestana de Vasconcelos's parents are João Pestana de Vaconcelos and D. Norberta Margarida da Camara (I suspect that here is the reason for the Dona). Maria Amélia Pestana Drumond was born on September 9, 1863. Is this your ancestor? Let's see if any of this info leads to something. In my opinion this is very close if not the one. Well? José Fernandes ________________________________ From: Dar Creuzer <dar.creuzer@gmail.com> To: PRT-MADEIRA@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 12:09:26 AM Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] Manuel Antonio Fernandes or Fernandez I am having trouble finding any information on my great grandfather Manuel Antonio Fernandez /Fernandes) he was born in Portugal, I don't know where , in 1845. He ended up in Hawaii and married Maria Amelia Drummond Gaspar on the big island of Hawaii before 1885 when their first child was born. They had the following children. Olympia, Gertrude, William, Manuel, Mary, John, Isabella. Manuel and Maria lived in Honolulu Hawaii where most of their children were born. at least two children were born in Kau Hawaii- Gertrude and Manuel. I don't know when he died but think it was before 1910, as he was in 1900 census but not in 1910 census with his wife. Maria died in Honolulu Oct. 29, 1946 buried in Kaimuki, Honolulu, Hawaii. Marie was born 9-1-1863 Porto Santo, Maderia Portugal. I am really wanting to know when he died in Hawaii and who his parents were. I have looked in ARM and find a few Manuel Fernandes but can't find anything else. Does anyone have any information on this Manuel or his family? I live in Wisconsin and can't go to Hawaii to research this family. thank you very much, Darlene Alling Creuzer ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Pamela, you wrote the following in one of your postings... "And since you asked, I am in California. My "Madeiran connections" are through Manuel Rodrigues Castanho (b. 1848) & Maria de Jesus Fernandes da Camara (b. 1853) of Arco da Calheta; Manuel da Silva (b. 1852) & Rita Augusts de Jesus Pinto (b. 1860) who married in Sao Martinho (passport application indicates parish Camara de Lobos); also Paulino Franca (b. 1861) & Balbina da Conceicao Ferraz (b. 1859) of Ponta Delgada, Madeira; and Jose Gomes Robello (b. 1862) & Maria de Jesus Rosa (b. abt 1861) of Madaleno do Mar - all of whom left Madeira for the Hawaiian Islands in the 1880s." Cheers, Pamela ~~~~~~~ Pamela, I located what I think may be your family residing in Honolulu, Hawaii... source: Publication/Book titled "Portuguese Hawaiian Memories by J. F. Freitas, 1930" On page 206 "Francisco R. Castanda, Honolulu... born in Kilauea, Kauai; son of Manuel R. Castanha and Maria de Jesus, both from Lorete, Arco da Calheta,Funchal,Madeira. Married to Elisia Rodrigues Caldeira, born in Hanamaulu, Kauai,T.H., daugher of Manuel R.Caldeira and Genoveva Augusta Rodrigues from San Goncalo,Funchal, Madeira. Is employed at Pearl Harbor, Naval Hospital. Has one child, Frank, who is attending school. Member of the San Antonio Society and the Pearl Harbor Lodge. His wife is also a member of the San Antonio Society." There is a picture along with this write-up. I can scan it and send it to your private email address is you wish... p.s. I didn't check for the other members of your family that you mentioned...but will do so... Pat Silva Corbera Tracy CA