my cents worth...redheads could come from many different places including Algiers and Morocco. I am not being funny here. Many current people from Port Santo may also descend from "arab" and "berber" stock. At one time, it is said there were about no more than 30 people left in the island after the pirate raids of the 1600's.   José Fernandes ________________________________ From: Louise Polsky <pitinha@cox.net> To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 12:38:05 AM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Manuel Antonio Fernandes or Fernandez Thanks, Miguel, for your information on the Drummonds. My third great grandmother was a Drummond. There are several red heads in my family from Porto Santo and I've wondered if that red hair came down from the Drummond line. Louise Pitta Polsky On May 7, 2012, at 9:41 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > Darlene, > > José was on spot, Just like a professional genealogist,  but then this > later would have asked for a huge fee for that piece of accurate info > delivered with godspeed. > > Anywaym what puzzles me is the dropping out the prestigious surname > Drummond in exchange for Gaspar. (it has no history, no charisma).  They > also had Pestana, Vasconcelos and Câmara to choose from. The last ones also > representing the oldest families in Madeira. > > A number of people would cut a finger to have Drummond in their name - as > it connects to Scottish (Stewarts) and English royalty. The Drummond name > was cherished in Madeira and in Porto Santo. So, that's quite puzzling why > they dropped one of the crown jewels ... > > Anyway, under the Portuguese law you're entitled to use any surname that > yur ancestors, both in the maternal and paternal line have used. It's not > at all uncommon that a surname, after being absent 3 or more generations, > re-surfaces. In Portugal, in general, if on the mother side the surnames > were more prestigious people would use them. > > Of course, in Portugal we have a quite different approach to names and > surnames...We're a 8 centuries old country - so the hunting area is > pharaminous. > > Cheers, cousin! I (and several others on this list) descend many times from > the first Drummond  - the famous João Drummond, gallant scottish knight, > who fought besides the legendary Joan of Arc, in France, ( he was part of > the Légion Écossaise. Quite recently William Sinclair, a distinguished > historian and genealogist from Scotland, has confirmed this) and came to > Madeira,  in the early period of settlement. > > Miguel de Castro Henriques > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Jacqui Marcella <JMarcela@calwisp.com>wrote: > >> Have you checked Familysearch.org? They have a good collection of Hawaii >> births, marriages and deaths. There is a wealth of free information and >> I found a lot on my husband's family there. >> >> On 5/6/2012 9:09 PM, Dar Creuzer wrote: >>> I am having trouble finding any information on my great grandfather >> Manuel >>> Antonio Fernandez /Fernandes) he was born in Portugal, I don't know >> where , >>> in 1845. He ended up in Hawaii and married Maria Amelia Drummond Gaspar >> on >>> the big island of Hawaii before 1885 when their first child was born. >> They >>> had the following children. Olympia, Gertrude, William, Manuel, Mary, >> John, >>> Isabella. Manuel and Maria lived in Honolulu Hawaii where most of their >>> children were born. at least two children were born in Kau Hawaii- >> Gertrude >>> and Manuel. I don't know when he died but think it was before 1910, as he >>> was in 1900 census but not in 1910 census with his wife. Maria died in >>> Honolulu Oct. 29, 1946 buried in Kaimuki, Honolulu, Hawaii.  Marie was >> born >>> 9-1-1863 Porto Santo, Maderia Portugal. >>> I am really wanting to know when he died in Hawaii and who his parents >>> were. I have looked in ARM and find a few Manuel Fernandes but can't find >>> anything else. Does anyone have any information on this Manuel or his >>> family? >>> I live in Wisconsin and can't go to Hawaii to research this family. >>> thank you very much, Darlene Alling Creuzer >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Actually I was a dark red hair. My father (of old Madeiran stock) was a blue eyed blonde, my mother dark red hair. People used to call me "russo" or "ruivo" (which means red haired). I don't know if the genetic trait "red hair" correspnods to Scottish blood. It might, (My mother has not a n aom of Scottish blood, and she is the ruiva. Anyway the Drummonds are said to be descendants of the great Khan Atila the Hun, otherwise known as "The Plague" who with his hordes devastated Europe - coming from Tartar territory in medieval times. Then apparently they came to Scotland from Poland. In 23and me I have a lot of Drummond "relatives." But don't ask me technicalities. . -) because much of that lingo and stuff is pure Chinese to me. On other hand, of course there is a lot of berberian (from ex. Khadafi's Lybia) presence in Madeira and Porto Santo. Stories about berberian pirate raids abound and they took root in the Madeiran collective unconscious and subconscious during centuries. The danger both in Madeira and PS always came from the sea. Either berberians, or French or English corso. That's why, for instance, Funchal has all these old forts located in all sides of the bay, They were raided many times. Cheers, Miguel On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 2:27 PM, JOSE FERNANDES <jose.fernandes@rogers.com>wrote: > my cents worth...redheads could come from many different places including > Algiers and Morocco. I am not being funny here. Many current people from > Port Santo may also descend from "arab" and "berber" stock. At one time, it > is said there were about no more than 30 people left in the island after > the pirate raids of the 1600's. > > José Fernandes > > > ________________________________ > From: Louise Polsky <pitinha@cox.net> > To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com > Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 12:38:05 AM > Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] Manuel Antonio Fernandes or Fernandez > > Thanks, Miguel, for your information on the Drummonds. My third great > grandmother was a Drummond. There are several red heads in my family from > Porto Santo and I've wondered if that red hair came down from the Drummond > line. > Louise Pitta Polsky > On May 7, 2012, at 9:41 AM, Miguel de Castro Henriques wrote: > > > Darlene, > > > > José was on spot, Just like a professional genealogist, but then this > > later would have asked for a huge fee for that piece of accurate info > > delivered with godspeed. > > > > Anywaym what puzzles me is the dropping out the prestigious surname > > Drummond in exchange for Gaspar. (it has no history, no charisma). They > > also had Pestana, Vasconcelos and Câmara to choose from. The last ones > also > > representing the oldest families in Madeira. > > > > A number of people would cut a finger to have Drummond in their name - as > > it connects to Scottish (Stewarts) and English royalty. The Drummond name > > was cherished in Madeira and in Porto Santo. So, that's quite puzzling > why > > they dropped one of the crown jewels ... > > > > Anyway, under the Portuguese law you're entitled to use any surname that > > yur ancestors, both in the maternal and paternal line have used. It's not > > at all uncommon that a surname, after being absent 3 or more generations, > > re-surfaces. In Portugal, in general, if on the mother side the surnames > > were more prestigious people would use them. > > > > Of course, in Portugal we have a quite different approach to names and > > surnames...We're a 8 centuries old country - so the hunting area is > > pharaminous. > > > > Cheers, cousin! I (and several others on this list) descend many times > from > > the first Drummond - the famous João Drummond, gallant scottish knight, > > who fought besides the legendary Joan of Arc, in France, ( he was part of > > the Légion Écossaise. Quite recently William Sinclair, a distinguished > > historian and genealogist from Scotland, has confirmed this) and came to > > Madeira, in the early period of settlement. > > > > Miguel de Castro Henriques > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Jacqui Marcella <JMarcela@calwisp.com > >wrote: > > > >> Have you checked Familysearch.org? They have a good collection of Hawaii > >> births, marriages and deaths. There is a wealth of free information and > >> I found a lot on my husband's family there. > >> > >> On 5/6/2012 9:09 PM, Dar Creuzer wrote: > >>> I am having trouble finding any information on my great grandfather > >> Manuel > >>> Antonio Fernandez /Fernandes) he was born in Portugal, I don't know > >> where , > >>> in 1845. He ended up in Hawaii and married Maria Amelia Drummond Gaspar > >> on > >>> the big island of Hawaii before 1885 when their first child was born. > >> They > >>> had the following children. Olympia, Gertrude, William, Manuel, Mary, > >> John, > >>> Isabella. Manuel and Maria lived in Honolulu Hawaii where most of their > >>> children were born. at least two children were born in Kau Hawaii- > >> Gertrude > >>> and Manuel. I don't know when he died but think it was before 1910, as > he > >>> was in 1900 census but not in 1910 census with his wife. Maria died in > >>> Honolulu Oct. 29, 1946 buried in Kaimuki, Honolulu, Hawaii. Marie was > >> born > >>> 9-1-1863 Porto Santo, Maderia Portugal. > >>> I am really wanting to know when he died in Hawaii and who his parents > >>> were. I have looked in ARM and find a few Manuel Fernandes but can't > find > >>> anything else. Does anyone have any information on this Manuel or his > >>> family? > >>> I live in Wisconsin and can't go to Hawaii to research this family. > >>> thank you very much, Darlene Alling Creuzer > >>> > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >