Miguel, I keep just using reply and not reply to all and then going off list. I am afraid that is happening quite a lot and unfortunately it limits the list and any assistance others can provide. Luis can we do something about this? Anyway, we are back. As always you are a source of information. I am alive but kicking I am not sure. Just retired this December, so I have spent the winter trying to see what I am going to do when I grow up. I am going to Madeira in August and shall be there and Porto Santo for about 7 weeks. I wanted to go to "Cuba Libre", but it might work this time. I appreciate your info on Porto Santo.I had some informatiom from the Elucidiario but this adds to it. Thanks. I also descend from the "genovese" who despite all attempts was not a companion of Zarco but unfortunately got Port Santo. Zarco was no fool. He got the best part. I descend from Diogo Soares (his daughter's marriage certificate does not include Perestrelo) and Dona Joana de Castro (e Menezes) Do we know the parents for this Joana? His daughter also a Joana de Castro marries a Duarte Martins Tavares in 1576, Caniço. Anyone who does research in Caniço will recall his father Bernardo Martins (Isabel Tavares in 1545). He was a witness tp many mariages at this time. A daughter- Ana (Henriques) Tavares marries Francisco Dias Saldanha in 1623. A son- Diogo Dias marries Maria Ferreira in 1651 and a son António Ferreira (What happened to those great names : Saldanha, Tavares, Castro etc ?) They pick Ferreira! He marries a Madalena Jorge, daughter of Gabriel de Nóbrega (Maria Jorge in 1645) and I think we share this ancestor, Oh Lord of the Nóbregas! One more generation and we get to the Fernandes. all of this in Caniço. I don`t think this makes me the ``representante`` of the captains of Porto Santo, but this summer I am going at the island in a different way. You know that Diogo got the ``position`` because his brother killed his wife as did his father who killed Aldonça. I bet the Funchal lords didn`t like that. There is Pedro Correia who claims he bought (the fool) and temporarily governed the place between 2 and 3rd. Nobody said your family was perfect. Mine too! Pat please note my comments on the previous e-mail off-list. Cheers José Fernandes ________________________________ From: Miguel de Castro Henriques <migueldecastrohenriques@gmail.com> To: JOSE FERNANDES <jose.fernandes@rogers.com> Sent: Friday, May 4, 2012 9:11:32 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] FW: Manuel and Antonio Pombo from Ponto do Pargo José, Thanks. Nice to see you're "alive and kickin"! Pombo is most probably one of these famous and most liberally given madeiran "alcunhas" that was adopted as a name. About Diogo Soares Perestrelo, I don't think I know anything special. Here - the author is Filipe Jardim - goes the lineage of the Perestrelos in answer to the question "Who is the "representante" of the Perestrelos nowadays?" By "representante" is meant the person who has the most direct line to the founder of the lineage and is entitled to be the clan-chief....In this case it's important because the families of the first three "capitães-donatários" (Bartolomeu Perestrelo, João Gonçalves Zarco, Tristão Teixeira) were considered to be the foremost top-dogs. (BTW the name Perestrelo is the Portuguese version of the Italian name Palestrelli - translation "by or through the stars" . Apparently the first Palestrelli was a jewish astrologer...in the Italian "trecento".. As many others with Madeiran ascendancies I also descend from Bartolomeu Perestrelo. 1) Bartolomeu Perestrelo, 1º capitão –donatário da ilha do Porto Santo (1446), teve de sua 3ª mulher D. Isabel Moniz: 2) Bartolomeu Pesrestrelo, 2º capitão-donatário de Porto Santo (1473) casou com Guiomar Teixeira (filha de Trsitão Vaz), tiveram: 3) Bartolomeu Pesrestrelo, 3º Capit.-Donatário (1529) casou com Aldonça Câmara (neta paterna de João Gonçalves Zarco), tiveram: 4) Diogo Soares Perestrelo, 4º Cap.-don. (1545) casou com Joana de Castro e Menezes,tiveram: 5) Diogo Pesrestrelo Bisforte, 5º Cap.-don. (1576) casou com Maria da Câmara (filha de Filipa Cabral da Câmara e de Gaspar Homem de Gouveia, filho primogénito de Francisco Homem de Gouveia, instituidor do Morgado dos Reis Magos da Calheta) em titulo: Câmaras, Homens de Gouveia, Cabrais, tiveram: (my comment - the surname Bisforte is intriguing, Where does it come from? It seems it comes out of the blue) 6) D. Francisca da Câmara Perestrelo casou com Vitoriano Bettencourt de Vasconcelos, este em titulo: Favilas, Bettencourt, Vasconcelos. Por casamento 6º cap.-don. Tiveram: 7) Diogo Bettencourt Perestrelo, 7º cap.-don. Casou com Luisa Agostinha de Noronha, tiveram: 8) Estêvão Bettencourt Perestrelo, 8º capitão-donatário, c.g. até Paulo Freire de Bettencourt Noronha Perestrelo da Câmara Homem de Gouveia (segundo Luís Peter Clode), morgado dos Reis Magos da Calheta, e assim representante da linha dos capitães donatários do Porto Santo, casou com António Júlia da Câmara ( aliás esta linhagem está mais desenvolvida na obra de Felisberto Bettencourt Miranda em titulo: Favilas), tiveram: 9) D. Ana Perestrelo da Câmara, herdeira de seu pai, casou com seu parente colatreral, Morgado Bento José Perestrelo da Câmara, destes descende entre outros os Veiga França e os Perestrelos de França, e do 2º casamento desta com seu cunhado, os Favilas Vieiras, que criosamente usam o apelido Favila não por herança genealogica, a que tinham direito, mas resultante de um “acordo” de herança relativamente á continuidade do apelido, feito entre o Morgado Favila (que tinha uma filha perfilhada c.g.) e o deputado Dr. Conselheiro Manuel José Vieira, amigalhaço do anterior, casado com D. Filomena Perestrelo da Câmara (neta de D. Ana Câmara) tiveram: 10) Paulo Perestrelo da Câmara, herdeiro de seus maiores, casou com Ana (ou Maria?) de Freitas Lomeino, filha de Nuno de Freitas da Silva Lomelino ( representante genealógico dos Freitas da Madalena, por onde caiu o morgado da Nossa Senhora da Conceição, da Serra de Àgua e por conseguinte representante do tão afamado ou difamado, consoante a perspectiva, D. Gonçalo Afonso D`Avis Trastâmara Fernandes, o máscara de ferro Português) e de Helena Luísa da Câmara (filha de Pedro Júlio da Câmara Leme Homem de Sousa e Helena Teresa de Carvalhal Esmeraldo Athouguia e Câmara ( irmã do 1º Conde de Carvalhal…) . Que está no genea como Paulo Perestrelo de Vasconcelos (e realmente é um Vasconcelos pelo casamento de D. Maria de Vasconcelos com António Favella)http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=75175 11) Maria Augusta Perestrelo casou com João Teixeira Dória , filho do morgado Luís Teixeira Dória e de Maria Inês da Câmara Leme, curiosamente, filha de Pedro Júlio da Câmara Leme Homem de Sousa e de Helena Teresa de Carvalhal Esmeraldo Câmara, neto paterno do Dr. Francisco Teixeira Dória e de Joana de Ornelas e Vasconcelos Câmara (tia do 1º visconde de São João), filha de Francisco Xavier de Ornelas e Vasconcelos, 11º morgado do Caniço e de D. Luísa Júlia Isabel de Castelo Branco Câmara Leme, bisneto paterno do capitão morgado Antóno Teixeira Dória de Athouguia e de Ana Berbarda de Athouguia e Brito Herédia, tiveram: 12) António Teixeira Dória, solteiro 12) General João Teixeira Dória, que segundo sei teve um filho. É a descendência deste que em minha opinião representa a Linhagem dos capitães-donatários do Porto Santo, logo, genealogicamente representante dos Perestrelos, que por sua vez representam os Homem de Gouveia, mas curiosamente, não os Favilas (que em minha opinião está na descendência da filha perfilhada do último morgado Favila de seu nome António João Betencourt da Silva Favila 182…a 1876 casado com D. Isabel Pimenta de Aguiar, deste casamento não houve geração). Cheers! Miguel On Sat, May 5, 2012 at 12:44 AM, JOSE FERNANDES <jose.fernandes@rogers.com> wrote: Miguel, >Nice to hear from you. Do you know where the name Pombo comes from? >Also, anything on Diogo Soares Perestrelo, Capitão do Porto Santo? I know the basic story about this capitania and the Perestrelos and how Diogo got to be captain. But is there anything else that you would know? > > >Pat, just in case and to clarify, I mentioned Sophie because her family remained in the states . Avelino' s grandafther returned to Madeira. > >José Fernandes > > >________________________________ > From: Miguel de Castro Henriques <migueldecastrohenriques@gmail.com> >To: JOSE FERNANDES <jose.fernandes@rogers.com>; prt-madeira@rootsweb.com >Sent: Friday, May 4, 2012 7:19:23 PM > >Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] FW: Manuel and Antonio Pombo from Ponto do Pargo > > > > > > >On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 10:41 PM, JOSE FERNANDES <jose.fernandes@rogers.com> wrote: > >Pat, >>I think that question is more for Sophie, although I believe all Fernandes Pombo from Ponta do Pargo are related directly. >> > >They certainly are. > > >> >I am descended from the oldest Fernandes Pombo in Madeira > >this one: >Manuel Fernandes Pombo x Constância Rodrigues, Ponta do Pargo 1681 1115 40 > > > > > > > he is quite probably the ancestor of all Fernandes Pombos from Ponta do Pargo and elsewhere in Madeira. > >BTW Pombo means Pigeon , -) > >Cheers, > >Miguel de Castro Henriques > > > >________________________________ >> From: Pat Corbera <PatriciaCorbera@comcast.net> >>To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com >>Sent: Friday, May 4, 2012 5:22:56 PM >>Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] FW: Manuel and Antonio Pombo from Ponto do Pargo >> >> >> >>Avelino, >> >>Are you related to the Pombos of Tracy CA ? >> >>Pat Silva Corbera >>Tracy CA >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Avelino Pombo" <apombo@johlt.com> >>To: "jose fernandes" <jose.fernandes@rogers.com>, prt-madeira@rootsweb.com >>Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2012 2:27:30 PM >>Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] FW: Manuel and Antonio Pombo from Ponto do Pargo >> >>Jose' - thank you for the information you sent to Sophie below. Antonio >>Fernandes Pombo (born around 1883) married to Maria Clara de Jesus >>(Sequeira)in 1910 is my grandfather and grandmother. >> >>My great grandparents were Antonio Fernandes Pombo (born around 1850) and >>Maria Antonia De Jesus.. Is there a way to find their parents. Do you know >>if there are records that go back to about 1820? Ponta do Pargo? >> >>Thanks! Avelino Pombo >> >> >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >
Miguel, Oops to say on ``Cuba Libre`` that it might not work. Would you know about the ``paradeiro de`` Paulo Perneta I would to see him in Madeira. José Fernandes ________________________________ From: JOSE FERNANDES <jose.fernandes@rogers.com> To: Miguel de Castro Henriques <migueldecastrohenriques@gmail.com>; "prt-madeira@rootsweb.com" <prt-madeira@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 4, 2012 11:18:02 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] FW: Manuel and Antonio Pombo from Ponto do Pargo Miguel, I keep just using reply and not reply to all and then going off list. I am afraid that is happening quite a lot and unfortunately it limits the list and any assistance others can provide. Luis can we do something about this? Anyway, we are back. As always you are a source of information. I am alive but kicking I am not sure. Just retired this December, so I have spent the winter trying to see what I am going to do when I grow up. I am going to Madeira in August and shall be there and Porto Santo for about 7 weeks. I wanted to go to "Cuba Libre", but it might work this time. I appreciate your info on Porto Santo.I had some informatiom from the Elucidiario but this adds to it. Thanks. I also descend from the "genovese" who despite all attempts was not a companion of Zarco but unfortunately got Port Santo. Zarco was no fool. He got the best part. I descend from Diogo Soares (his daughter's marriage certificate does not include Perestrelo) and Dona Joana de Castro (e Menezes) Do we know the parents for this Joana? His daughter also a Joana de Castro marries a Duarte Martins Tavares in 1576, Caniço. Anyone who does research in Caniço will recall his father Bernardo Martins (Isabel Tavares in 1545). He was a witness tp many mariages at this time. A daughter- Ana (Henriques) Tavares marries Francisco Dias Saldanha in 1623. A son- Diogo Dias marries Maria Ferreira in 1651 and a son António Ferreira (What happened to those great names : Saldanha, Tavares, Castro etc ?) They pick Ferreira! He marries a Madalena Jorge, daughter of Gabriel de Nóbrega (Maria Jorge in 1645) and I think we share this ancestor, Oh Lord of the Nóbregas! One more generation and we get to the Fernandes. all of this in Caniço. I don`t think this makes me the ``representante`` of the captains of Porto Santo, but this summer I am going at the island in a different way. You know that Diogo got the ``position`` because his brother killed his wife as did his father who killed Aldonça. I bet the Funchal lords didn`t like that. There is Pedro Correia who claims he bought (the fool) and temporarily governed the place between 2 and 3rd. Nobody said your family was perfect. Mine too! Pat please note my comments on the previous e-mail off-list. Cheers José Fernandes ________________________________ From: Miguel de Castro Henriques <migueldecastrohenriques@gmail.com> To: JOSE FERNANDES <jose.fernandes@rogers.com> Sent: Friday, May 4, 2012 9:11:32 PM Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] FW: Manuel and Antonio Pombo from Ponto do Pargo José, Thanks. Nice to see you're "alive and kickin"! Pombo is most probably one of these famous and most liberally given madeiran "alcunhas" that was adopted as a name. About Diogo Soares Perestrelo, I don't think I know anything special. Here - the author is Filipe Jardim - goes the lineage of the Perestrelos in answer to the question "Who is the "representante" of the Perestrelos nowadays?" By "representante" is meant the person who has the most direct line to the founder of the lineage and is entitled to be the clan-chief....In this case it's important because the families of the first three "capitães-donatários" (Bartolomeu Perestrelo, João Gonçalves Zarco, Tristão Teixeira) were considered to be the foremost top-dogs. (BTW the name Perestrelo is the Portuguese version of the Italian name Palestrelli - translation "by or through the stars" . Apparently the first Palestrelli was a jewish astrologer...in the Italian "trecento".. As many others with Madeiran ascendancies I also descend from Bartolomeu Perestrelo. 1) Bartolomeu Perestrelo, 1º capitão –donatário da ilha do Porto Santo (1446), teve de sua 3ª mulher D. Isabel Moniz: 2) Bartolomeu Pesrestrelo, 2º capitão-donatário de Porto Santo (1473) casou com Guiomar Teixeira (filha de Trsitão Vaz), tiveram: 3) Bartolomeu Pesrestrelo, 3º Capit.-Donatário (1529) casou com Aldonça Câmara (neta paterna de João Gonçalves Zarco), tiveram: 4) Diogo Soares Perestrelo, 4º Cap.-don. (1545) casou com Joana de Castro e Menezes,tiveram: 5) Diogo Pesrestrelo Bisforte, 5º Cap.-don. (1576) casou com Maria da Câmara (filha de Filipa Cabral da Câmara e de Gaspar Homem de Gouveia, filho primogénito de Francisco Homem de Gouveia, instituidor do Morgado dos Reis Magos da Calheta) em titulo: Câmaras, Homens de Gouveia, Cabrais, tiveram: (my comment - the surname Bisforte is intriguing, Where does it come from? It seems it comes out of the blue) 6) D. Francisca da Câmara Perestrelo casou com Vitoriano Bettencourt de Vasconcelos, este em titulo: Favilas, Bettencourt, Vasconcelos. Por casamento 6º cap.-don. Tiveram: 7) Diogo Bettencourt Perestrelo, 7º cap.-don. Casou com Luisa Agostinha de Noronha, tiveram: 8) Estêvão Bettencourt Perestrelo, 8º capitão-donatário, c.g. até Paulo Freire de Bettencourt Noronha Perestrelo da Câmara Homem de Gouveia (segundo Luís Peter Clode), morgado dos Reis Magos da Calheta, e assim representante da linha dos capitães donatários do Porto Santo, casou com António Júlia da Câmara ( aliás esta linhagem está mais desenvolvida na obra de Felisberto Bettencourt Miranda em titulo: Favilas), tiveram: 9) D. Ana Perestrelo da Câmara, herdeira de seu pai, casou com seu parente colatreral, Morgado Bento José Perestrelo da Câmara, destes descende entre outros os Veiga França e os Perestrelos de França, e do 2º casamento desta com seu cunhado, os Favilas Vieiras, que criosamente usam o apelido Favila não por herança genealogica, a que tinham direito, mas resultante de um “acordo” de herança relativamente á continuidade do apelido, feito entre o Morgado Favila (que tinha uma filha perfilhada c.g.) e o deputado Dr. Conselheiro Manuel José Vieira, amigalhaço do anterior, casado com D. Filomena Perestrelo da Câmara (neta de D. Ana Câmara) tiveram: 10) Paulo Perestrelo da Câmara, herdeiro de seus maiores, casou com Ana (ou Maria?) de Freitas Lomeino, filha de Nuno de Freitas da Silva Lomelino ( representante genealógico dos Freitas da Madalena, por onde caiu o morgado da Nossa Senhora da Conceição, da Serra de Àgua e por conseguinte representante do tão afamado ou difamado, consoante a perspectiva, D. Gonçalo Afonso D`Avis Trastâmara Fernandes, o máscara de ferro Português) e de Helena Luísa da Câmara (filha de Pedro Júlio da Câmara Leme Homem de Sousa e Helena Teresa de Carvalhal Esmeraldo Athouguia e Câmara ( irmã do 1º Conde de Carvalhal…) . Que está no genea como Paulo Perestrelo de Vasconcelos (e realmente é um Vasconcelos pelo casamento de D. Maria de Vasconcelos com António Favella)http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=75175 11) Maria Augusta Perestrelo casou com João Teixeira Dória , filho do morgado Luís Teixeira Dória e de Maria Inês da Câmara Leme, curiosamente, filha de Pedro Júlio da Câmara Leme Homem de Sousa e de Helena Teresa de Carvalhal Esmeraldo Câmara, neto paterno do Dr. Francisco Teixeira Dória e de Joana de Ornelas e Vasconcelos Câmara (tia do 1º visconde de São João), filha de Francisco Xavier de Ornelas e Vasconcelos, 11º morgado do Caniço e de D. Luísa Júlia Isabel de Castelo Branco Câmara Leme, bisneto paterno do capitão morgado Antóno Teixeira Dória de Athouguia e de Ana Berbarda de Athouguia e Brito Herédia, tiveram: 12) António Teixeira Dória, solteiro 12) General João Teixeira Dória, que segundo sei teve um filho. É a descendência deste que em minha opinião representa a Linhagem dos capitães-donatários do Porto Santo, logo, genealogicamente representante dos Perestrelos, que por sua vez representam os Homem de Gouveia, mas curiosamente, não os Favilas (que em minha opinião está na descendência da filha perfilhada do último morgado Favila de seu nome António João Betencourt da Silva Favila 182…a 1876 casado com D. Isabel Pimenta de Aguiar, deste casamento não houve geração). Cheers! Miguel On Sat, May 5, 2012 at 12:44 AM, JOSE FERNANDES <jose.fernandes@rogers.com> wrote: Miguel, >Nice to hear from you. Do you know where the name Pombo comes from? >Also, anything on Diogo Soares Perestrelo, Capitão do Porto Santo? I know the basic story about this capitania and the Perestrelos and how Diogo got to be captain. But is there anything else that you would know? > > >Pat, just in case and to clarify, I mentioned Sophie because her family remained in the states . Avelino' s grandafther returned to Madeira. > >José Fernandes > > >________________________________ > From: Miguel de Castro Henriques <migueldecastrohenriques@gmail.com> >To: JOSE FERNANDES <jose.fernandes@rogers.com>; prt-madeira@rootsweb.com >Sent: Friday, May 4, 2012 7:19:23 PM > >Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] FW: Manuel and Antonio Pombo from Ponto do Pargo > > > > > > >On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 10:41 PM, JOSE FERNANDES <jose.fernandes@rogers.com> wrote: > >Pat, >>I think that question is more for Sophie, although I believe all Fernandes Pombo from Ponta do Pargo are related directly. >> > >They certainly are. > > >> >I am descended from the oldest Fernandes Pombo in Madeira > >this one: >Manuel Fernandes Pombo x Constância Rodrigues, Ponta do Pargo 1681 1115 40 > > > > > > > he is quite probably the ancestor of all Fernandes Pombos from Ponta do Pargo and elsewhere in Madeira. > >BTW Pombo means Pigeon , -) > >Cheers, > >Miguel de Castro Henriques > > > >________________________________ >> From: Pat Corbera <PatriciaCorbera@comcast.net> >>To: prt-madeira@rootsweb.com >>Sent: Friday, May 4, 2012 5:22:56 PM >>Subject: Re: [PT-MADEIRA] FW: Manuel and Antonio Pombo from Ponto do Pargo >> >> >> >>Avelino, >> >>Are you related to the Pombos of Tracy CA ? >> >>Pat Silva Corbera >>Tracy CA >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Avelino Pombo" <apombo@johlt.com> >>To: "jose fernandes" <jose.fernandes@rogers.com>, prt-madeira@rootsweb.com >>Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2012 2:27:30 PM >>Subject: [PT-MADEIRA] FW: Manuel and Antonio Pombo from Ponto do Pargo >> >>Jose' - thank you for the information you sent to Sophie below. Antonio >>Fernandes Pombo (born around 1883) married to Maria Clara de Jesus >>(Sequeira)in 1910 is my grandfather and grandmother. >> >>My great grandparents were Antonio Fernandes Pombo (born around 1850) and >>Maria Antonia De Jesus.. Is there a way to find their parents. Do you know >>if there are records that go back to about 1820? Ponta do Pargo? >> >>Thanks! Avelino Pombo >> >> >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PRT-MADEIRA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message