Hi Luis Thank you so much for that information. Ana shed some light on the "Calderia" surname - she also informed me that it was "Caldeira". There is some sort of a dispute regarding the "Marcel" - our archives here in SA have his name spelled two different ways "Marceal" and "Marsial" - so I'm a bit lost there. I'm waiting for the one researcher to come back to me regarding the documents in the archives. Unfortunately the one lot is contained at the Pretoria archives and I live in Durban so it is difficult for me to lay my hands on them. Hence the need for somebody else to do it for me. I must say I have been having great difficulty in finding the name "Serena" - thank you for the Portuguese telephone book link - I will most certainly have a look at that. The only problem with the name "Fatti" is that it was a nickname which belonged to a male relative. I pulled out my Family Sheet for Serena/De Abreu and some of the information regarding my great-grandparents' children(which I had forgotten) is as follows:- Lourdes/Delourdes/De Lurdes - Female - Deceased - Date of birth unknown to me - Place of birth unknown to me - Date of death - uknown to me - Place of death - unknown to me - Died approximately age 19 - She was a Down Syndrome child. Avelino Vieira Serena ("Fatti") - Male - Deceased - Date of birth unknown to me - Place of birth unknown to me - Date of death - 2002/3 (I am still trying to get hold of the Government Gazette containing his death details)- Place of death - Johannesburg, SA Luiz Jose Vieira Serena - Male - Deceased - Date of birth 08.11.1928 - Place of birth unknown to me - Date of death - 07.12.03 - Place of death - Durban, SA Theresa Maria Serena - Female - Deceased - Date of birth 14.08.193? - Place of birth - unknown to me - Date of death - April 2005 - Place of death - Durban, SA Angelina Clara Serena (my grandmother) - Female - Deceased - Date of birth 06.08.1936 - Place of birth - Durban, SA - Date of death - 20.08.1990 - Place of death - Durban, SA Deloures ... Serena - Female - Deceased - Date of birth - 09.02.1939 - Place of birth - unknown to me - Date of death - 16.09.1994 - Place of death - Cape Town, SA Beatriz (Beatrice) ... Serena - Female - Still Living in SA - Date of birth - ... - Place of birth - ... (I am working on this one - she is rather reluctant to give me any information - she apparently went to Portugal with Deloures ... on a visit to try and get information on the family - they apparently did get information but now all of a sudden nobody knows anything) Cecilia ... Serena - Female - Still Living in SA - Date of birth - ... - Place of birth - (I am also still working on this one - also rather reluctant to give me information - I will ask my mom to give her a call) Antonio ... Serena - Male - Still Living - Date of birth - ... - Place of birth - (I am going to ask my mother to give him or his wife a call) Lourenco (Lawrence)... Serena - Male - Deceased - Date of birth - unknown to me - Place of birth - unknown to me - Date of death - unknown to me - Place of death - unknown to me - Died approximately 9 months of age (we think he had Consumption) Unfortunately my deceased grandmother was not a Portuguese Citizen - I have a copy of her birth certificate and she was born in South Africa. The only link we have with Portugal at this stage is my great-grandmother and great-grandfather. I will most definitely not give up - I am too curious to find out more - and all the secrecy just adds to that curiosity! Thank you so much for your help - most appreciated - you have really shed some more light on my ancestry! God Bless! Kind regards, Marcia -----Original Message----- From: Luis K W [mailto:luis_k_w@clix.pt] Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 3:32 AM To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PRT-MADEIRA] Madeiran Archives Website Marcia The correct spelling of those names is: CALDEIRA (not Calderia) de ABREU MARCEL SERENA is an uncommon family name, but it STILL EXISTS IN LISBON (you made a mistake looking for this name in Madeira. Lisbon is in mainland Portugal, not in Madeira!). Take a look into the portuguese telephone book on-line at www.118.pt. FATI is a neek name for FATIMA (or MARIA DE FATIMA). DELOURES should be DELORES, but is not common in Portugal (it looks too castillian to me). Could it be "Maria de Lurdes"? You could be entitled to Portuguese citizenship if your parents were portuguese. Was your deceased grandmother portuguese? If you want to look further in your ancestry, you have to find DOCUMENTS telling you 3 things: DATES (birth or marriage) PLACE (parish where it took place) NAMES (full names, and/or parents names) And those documents have to be found right there where you are. Otherwise, you'll be looking for something almost impossible to find. You must try EVERYTHING: Your parents and grandparents birth and marriage documents: Passengers lists from the boats coming to S.A. Army lists. Census. Etc. And, above all, you must NEVER QUIT. Good Luck Luis K W Lisboa-Portugal ---------- > From: Marcia & Roland > Date: Terça-feira, 6 de Junho de 2006 19:11 > Good evening > My name is Marcia and I live in Durban, KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa. I have > just been reading with interest all the mails that have come through to me > from the mailing list regarding the Madeiran Archives Website. I also do > not speak Portuguese and am having great difficulty in tracing my ancestry. > My great-grandparents were born in Portugal. My great-grandmother was Maria > Clara (Calderia) de Abreu/de Abreau/Deabreu (not sure of the spelling). She > was born in Madeira but unfortunately the parish is unknown to me (I have a > faint suspicion though that it may very well have been Funchal - don't ask > me why, I just get these feelings sometimes). My great-grandfather was > Marceal/Marcial/Marcel Vieira Serena and he was born in Lisbon. They both > came through to South Africa in the early 1900's (I think). > I today tried to do a search on the Madeiran Archives for the surname > "Serena" but nothing comes up. I came up with lots of Vieira's and de > Abreau's but nothing at all that comes close to my great-grandparents' > names. I have been assured that Serena is definitely a Portuguese surname > so can't understand why nobody else has that surname. I have basically hit > a "brick wall" with my research. I have so far been unable to obtain birth > certificates or any sort of family record from my grandmother's family > members. Unfortunately the person who probably would have remembered the > most (my grandmother), passed away in 1990. > My great-grandparents' childrens' names were - De Lourdes Serena (died at > age 19) (I think she may have been born in Portugal), "Fatti" (not sure if > this is a Portuguese name or a nickname - He may also very well have been > born in Portugal) Vieira Serena, Luiz Jose Vieira Serena, Antonio Vieira > Serena, Deloures Serena, Theresa Maria Serena (born in South Africa I > think), Beatrice (Beatriz) Serena (born in South Africa), Angelina Clara > Serena (my deceased grandmother) (definitely born in South Africa) and > Lawrence (Lourenco) Serena (he died as a baby from consumption). > The reason I started my research in the first place was to try and see > whether I would be able to obtain my Portuguese Passport through my maternal > grandparents - So far the Portuguese Embassy in South Africa has been most > unhelpful in that they refuse to give me any information as to whether I may > or may not be entitled to a Portuguese passport. But, as my research has > gone on, my curiosity has just gotten the better of me. > My maternal side of the family seems to think that there is some huge secret > about my great-grandfather's departure from Portugal - something to the > effect that he could have stolen someone else's surname - but this has not > been confirmed. > Is there somebody out there that can perhaps help me in my quest for my > heritage? > Kind regards, > Marcia Bezuidenhout ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx

Hi Marcia, As a former South African now living in Canada, I know the challenges you face in accessing the information. Here's a website with some helpful links if you haven't already accessed it - maybe they can shed some light on getting 'quick access' to documents. http://www.cyndislist.com/soafrica.htm It may be worthwhile contacting one or two of the museums (links on cindy's list) or the genealogical society of South Africa http://www.ggsa.info/. I'm thinking that if you're looking for documents going back to the 1900's, South Africa at that time was the Union of South Africa under British rule, so maybe the documents are not at the homeland affairs, but in another archive. When my mother's parents immigrated to SA in the 1940's they had to get all sorts of documentation - id cards for starters, so there must be records somewhere for the year they arrived. If you can access the 'full death certificate' not the abridged version, it usually states where the person was born and who the parents are. Also the cemeteries keep records of when people died and were buried - that way you can get an accurate 'death date'. Same with marriage certificates - ask for the 'full version'. You have to look for different spelling of the names, remembering that the folk who were often in charge of filling out the information; English was not their first language, never mind a foreign one. I have one relative for example who is Eulanda, in English Yolanda but her birth certificate is Joulanda. Happy hunting! Janette Chun -----Original Message----- From: Marcia & Roland [mailto:roland1@wol.co.za] Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 11:53 PM To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [PRT-MADEIRA] Madeiran Archives Website Hi Luis Thank you so much for that information. Ana shed some light on the "Calderia" surname - she also informed me that it was "Caldeira". There is some sort of a dispute regarding the "Marcel" - our archives here in SA have his name spelled two different ways "Marceal" and "Marsial" - so I'm a bit lost there. I'm waiting for the one researcher to come back to me regarding the documents in the archives. Unfortunately the one lot is contained at the Pretoria archives and I live in Durban so it is difficult for me to lay my hands on them. Hence the need for somebody else to do it for me. I must say I have been having great difficulty in finding the name "Serena" - thank you for the Portuguese telephone book link - I will most certainly have a look at that. The only problem with the name "Fatti" is that it was a nickname which belonged to a male relative. I pulled out my Family Sheet for Serena/De Abreu and some of the information regarding my great-grandparents' children(which I had forgotten) is as follows:- Lourdes/Delourdes/De Lurdes - Female - Deceased - Date of birth unknown to me - Place of birth unknown to me - Date of death - uknown to me - Place of death - unknown to me - Died approximately age 19 - She was a Down Syndrome child. Avelino Vieira Serena ("Fatti") - Male - Deceased - Date of birth unknown to me - Place of birth unknown to me - Date of death - 2002/3 (I am still trying to get hold of the Government Gazette containing his death details)- Place of death - Johannesburg, SA Luiz Jose Vieira Serena - Male - Deceased - Date of birth 08.11.1928 - Place of birth unknown to me - Date of death - 07.12.03 - Place of death - Durban, SA Theresa Maria Serena - Female - Deceased - Date of birth 14.08.193? - Place of birth - unknown to me - Date of death - April 2005 - Place of death - Durban, SA Angelina Clara Serena (my grandmother) - Female - Deceased - Date of birth 06.08.1936 - Place of birth - Durban, SA - Date of death - 20.08.1990 - Place of death - Durban, SA Deloures ... Serena - Female - Deceased - Date of birth - 09.02.1939 - Place of birth - unknown to me - Date of death - 16.09.1994 - Place of death - Cape Town, SA Beatriz (Beatrice) ... Serena - Female - Still Living in SA - Date of birth - ... - Place of birth - ... (I am working on this one - she is rather reluctant to give me any information - she apparently went to Portugal with Deloures ... on a visit to try and get information on the family - they apparently did get information but now all of a sudden nobody knows anything) Cecilia ... Serena - Female - Still Living in SA - Date of birth - ... - Place of birth - (I am also still working on this one - also rather reluctant to give me information - I will ask my mom to give her a call) Antonio ... Serena - Male - Still Living - Date of birth - ... - Place of birth - (I am going to ask my mother to give him or his wife a call) Lourenco (Lawrence)... Serena - Male - Deceased - Date of birth - unknown to me - Place of birth - unknown to me - Date of death - unknown to me - Place of death - unknown to me - Died approximately 9 months of age (we think he had Consumption) Unfortunately my deceased grandmother was not a Portuguese Citizen - I have a copy of her birth certificate and she was born in South Africa. The only link we have with Portugal at this stage is my great-grandmother and great-grandfather. I will most definitely not give up - I am too curious to find out more - and all the secrecy just adds to that curiosity! Thank you so much for your help - most appreciated - you have really shed some more light on my ancestry! God Bless! Kind regards, Marcia -----Original Message----- From: Luis K W [mailto:luis_k_w@clix.pt] Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 3:32 AM To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PRT-MADEIRA] Madeiran Archives Website Marcia The correct spelling of those names is: CALDEIRA (not Calderia) de ABREU MARCEL SERENA is an uncommon family name, but it STILL EXISTS IN LISBON (you made a mistake looking for this name in Madeira. Lisbon is in mainland Portugal, not in Madeira!). Take a look into the portuguese telephone book on-line at www.118.pt. FATI is a neek name for FATIMA (or MARIA DE FATIMA). DELOURES should be DELORES, but is not common in Portugal (it looks too castillian to me). Could it be "Maria de Lurdes"? You could be entitled to Portuguese citizenship if your parents were portuguese. Was your deceased grandmother portuguese? If you want to look further in your ancestry, you have to find DOCUMENTS telling you 3 things: DATES (birth or marriage) PLACE (parish where it took place) NAMES (full names, and/or parents names) And those documents have to be found right there where you are. Otherwise, you'll be looking for something almost impossible to find. You must try EVERYTHING: Your parents and grandparents birth and marriage documents: Passengers lists from the boats coming to S.A. Army lists. Census. Etc. And, above all, you must NEVER QUIT. Good Luck Luis K W Lisboa-Portugal ---------- > From: Marcia & Roland > Date: Terça-feira, 6 de Junho de 2006 19:11 > Good evening > My name is Marcia and I live in Durban, KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa. I have > just been reading with interest all the mails that have come through to me > from the mailing list regarding the Madeiran Archives Website. I also do > not speak Portuguese and am having great difficulty in tracing my ancestry. > My great-grandparents were born in Portugal. My great-grandmother was Maria > Clara (Calderia) de Abreu/de Abreau/Deabreu (not sure of the spelling). She > was born in Madeira but unfortunately the parish is unknown to me (I have a > faint suspicion though that it may very well have been Funchal - don't ask > me why, I just get these feelings sometimes). My great-grandfather was > Marceal/Marcial/Marcel Vieira Serena and he was born in Lisbon. They both > came through to South Africa in the early 1900's (I think). > I today tried to do a search on the Madeiran Archives for the surname > "Serena" but nothing comes up. I came up with lots of Vieira's and de > Abreau's but nothing at all that comes close to my great-grandparents' > names. I have been assured that Serena is definitely a Portuguese surname > so can't understand why nobody else has that surname. I have basically hit > a "brick wall" with my research. I have so far been unable to obtain birth > certificates or any sort of family record from my grandmother's family > members. Unfortunately the person who probably would have remembered the > most (my grandmother), passed away in 1990. > My great-grandparents' childrens' names were - De Lourdes Serena (died at > age 19) (I think she may have been born in Portugal), "Fatti" (not sure if > this is a Portuguese name or a nickname - He may also very well have been > born in Portugal) Vieira Serena, Luiz Jose Vieira Serena, Antonio Vieira > Serena, Deloures Serena, Theresa Maria Serena (born in South Africa I > think), Beatrice (Beatriz) Serena (born in South Africa), Angelina Clara > Serena (my deceased grandmother) (definitely born in South Africa) and > Lawrence (Lourenco) Serena (he died as a baby from consumption). > The reason I started my research in the first place was to try and see > whether I would be able to obtain my Portuguese Passport through my maternal > grandparents - So far the Portuguese Embassy in South Africa has been most > unhelpful in that they refuse to give me any information as to whether I may > or may not be entitled to a Portuguese passport. But, as my research has > gone on, my curiosity has just gotten the better of me. > My maternal side of the family seems to think that there is some huge secret > about my great-grandfather's departure from Portugal - something to the > effect that he could have stolen someone else's surname - but this has not > been confirmed. > Is there somebody out there that can perhaps help me in my quest for my > heritage? > Kind regards, > Marcia Bezuidenhout ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx