Marcia There also is the MARÇAL (marc,al) name, but it's a family name. Fati is a male (Avelino)?!? :-)) It has to be a nickname, then. Fortunately he was not living in Portugal... Could he be "fat" person? Luis ---------- > From: Marcia & Roland <roland1@wol.co.za> > To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: RE: [PRT-MADEIRA] Madeiran Archives Website > Date: Quinta-feira, 8 de Junho de 2006 7:53 > > Hi Luis > Thank you so much for that information. Ana shed some light on the > "Calderia" surname - she also informed me that it was "Caldeira". There is > some sort of a dispute regarding the "Marcel" - our archives here in SA have > his name spelled two different ways "Marceal" and "Marsial" - so I'm a bit > lost there. I'm waiting for the one researcher to come back to me regarding > the documents in the archives. Unfortunately the one lot is contained at the > Pretoria archives and I live in Durban so it is difficult for me to lay my > hands on them. Hence the need for somebody else to do it for me. > I must say I have been having great difficulty in finding the name "Serena" > - thank you for the Portuguese telephone book link - I will most certainly > have a look at that. > The only problem with the name "Fatti" is that it was a nickname which > belonged to a male relative. I pulled out my Family Sheet for Serena/De > Abreu and some of the information regarding my great-grandparents' > children(which I had forgotten) is as follows:- > > Lourdes/Delourdes/De Lurdes - Female - Deceased - Date of birth unknown to > me - Place of birth unknown to me - Date of death - uknown to me - Place of > death - unknown to me - Died approximately age 19 - She was a Down Syndrome > child. > > Avelino Vieira Serena ("Fatti") - Male - Deceased - Date of birth unknown to > me - Place of birth unknown to me - Date of death - 2002/3 (I am still > trying to get hold of the Government Gazette containing his death details)- > Place of death - Johannesburg, SA > > Luiz Jose Vieira Serena - Male - Deceased - Date of birth 08.11.1928 - Place > of birth unknown to me - Date of death - 07.12.03 - Place of death - Durban, > SA > > Theresa Maria Serena - Female - Deceased - Date of birth 14.08.193? - Place > of birth - unknown to me - Date of death - April 2005 - Place of death - > Durban, SA > > Angelina Clara Serena (my grandmother) - Female - Deceased - Date of birth > 06.08.1936 - Place of birth - Durban, SA - Date of death - 20.08.1990 - > Place of death - Durban, SA > > Deloures ... Serena - Female - Deceased - Date of birth - 09.02.1939 - Place > of birth - unknown to me - Date of death - 16.09.1994 - Place of death - > Cape Town, SA > > Beatriz (Beatrice) ... Serena - Female - Still Living in SA - Date of birth > - ... - Place of birth - ... (I am working on this one - she is rather > reluctant to give me any information - she apparently went to Portugal with > Deloures ... on a visit to try and get information on the family - they > apparently did get information but now all of a sudden nobody knows > anything) > > Cecilia ... Serena - Female - Still Living in SA - Date of birth - ... - > Place of birth - (I am also still working on this one - also rather > reluctant to give me information - I will ask my mom to give her a call) > > Antonio ... Serena - Male - Still Living - Date of birth - ... - Place of > birth - (I am going to ask my mother to give him or his wife a call) > > Lourenco (Lawrence)... Serena - Male - Deceased - Date of birth - unknown to > me - Place of birth - unknown to me - Date of death - unknown to me - Place > of death - unknown to me - Died approximately 9 months of age (we think he > had Consumption) > > Unfortunately my deceased grandmother was not a Portuguese Citizen - I have > a copy of her birth certificate and she was born in South Africa. > The only link we have with Portugal at this stage is my great-grandmother > and great-grandfather. > I will most definitely not give up - I am too curious to find out more - and > all the secrecy just adds to that curiosity! > Thank you so much for your help - most appreciated - you have really shed > some more light on my ancestry! > God Bless! > Kind regards, > Marcia > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Luis K W [mailto:luis_k_w@clix.pt] > Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 3:32 AM > To: PRT-MADEIRA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [PRT-MADEIRA] Madeiran Archives Website > > Marcia > The correct spelling of those names is: > CALDEIRA (not Calderia) > de ABREU > MARCEL > > SERENA is an uncommon family name, but it STILL EXISTS IN LISBON (you made > a mistake looking for this name in Madeira. Lisbon is in mainland Portugal, > not in Madeira!). Take a look into the portuguese telephone book on-line at > www.118.pt. > > FATI is a neek name for FATIMA (or MARIA DE FATIMA). > > DELOURES should be DELORES, but is not common in Portugal (it looks too > castillian to me). Could it be "Maria de Lurdes"? > > You could be entitled to Portuguese citizenship if your parents were > portuguese. Was your deceased grandmother portuguese? > > If you want to look further in your ancestry, you have to find DOCUMENTS > telling you 3 things: > DATES (birth or marriage) > PLACE (parish where it took place) > NAMES (full names, and/or parents names) > And those documents have to be found right there where you are. > Otherwise, you'll be looking for something almost impossible to find. > > You must try EVERYTHING: Your parents and grandparents birth and marriage > documents: Passengers lists from the boats coming to S.A. Army lists. > Census. Etc. > > And, above all, you must NEVER QUIT. > Good Luck > > Luis K W > Lisboa-Portugal > ---------- > > From: Marcia & Roland > > Date: Terça-feira, 6 de Junho de 2006 19:11 > > Good evening > > My name is Marcia and I live in Durban, KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa. I > have > > just been reading with interest all the mails that have come through to > me > > from the mailing list regarding the Madeiran Archives Website. I also do > > not speak Portuguese and am having great difficulty in tracing my > ancestry. > > My great-grandparents were born in Portugal. My great-grandmother was > Maria > > Clara (Calderia) de Abreu/de Abreau/Deabreu (not sure of the spelling). > She > > was born in Madeira but unfortunately the parish is unknown to me (I have > a > > faint suspicion though that it may very well have been Funchal - don't > ask > > me why, I just get these feelings sometimes). My great-grandfather was > > Marceal/Marcial/Marcel Vieira Serena and he was born in Lisbon. They > both > > came through to South Africa in the early 1900's (I think). > > I today tried to do a search on the Madeiran Archives for the surname > > "Serena" but nothing comes up. I came up with lots of Vieira's and de > > Abreau's but nothing at all that comes close to my great-grandparents' > > names. I have been assured that Serena is definitely a Portuguese > surname > > so can't understand why nobody else has that surname. I have basically > hit > > a "brick wall" with my research. I have so far been unable to obtain > birth > > certificates or any sort of family record from my grandmother's family > > members. Unfortunately the person who probably would have remembered the > > most (my grandmother), passed away in 1990. > > My great-grandparents' childrens' names were - De Lourdes Serena (died at > > age 19) (I think she may have been born in Portugal), "Fatti" (not sure > if > > this is a Portuguese name or a nickname - He may also very well have been > > born in Portugal) Vieira Serena, Luiz Jose Vieira Serena, Antonio Vieira > > Serena, Deloures Serena, Theresa Maria Serena (born in South Africa I > > think), Beatrice (Beatriz) Serena (born in South Africa), Angelina Clara > > Serena (my deceased grandmother) (definitely born in South Africa) and > > Lawrence (Lourenco) Serena (he died as a baby from consumption). > > The reason I started my research in the first place was to try and see > > whether I would be able to obtain my Portuguese Passport through my > maternal > > grandparents - So far the Portuguese Embassy in South Africa has been > most > > unhelpful in that they refuse to give me any information as to whether I > may > > or may not be entitled to a Portuguese passport. But, as my research has > > gone on, my curiosity has just gotten the better of me. > > My maternal side of the family seems to think that there is some huge > secret > > about my great-grandfather's departure from Portugal - something to the > > effect that he could have stolen someone else's surname - but this has > not > > been confirmed. > > Is there somebody out there that can perhaps help me in my quest for my > > heritage? > > Kind regards, > > Marcia Bezuidenhout > > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > > > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >